CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Main Deck => Discussion for Registered Members Only => Topic started by: Tyll Hertsens on August 24, 2012, 03:02:53 AM
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Just wanted to put the word out that there's something really wrong with some of these cans. Looks like manufacturing problems. Sorta seems like the diaphragms may be messed up and the voice coils rub sometimes. Don't buy one.
You didn't hear it from me ... yet.
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Had the same problem with the one I bought and then returned.
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Aye Aye! :)p2
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Karma for you matey. YARRR!!!! :)p3
Btw, we seem to be on to a bit of intrigue w/ the HD650 that might benefit from some investigative journalism.
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Got a linky for me to view?
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Got a linky for me to view?
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,469.msg8407/topicseen.html#new (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,469.msg8407/topicseen.html#new)
Also some meet impressions at LA and various discrepancies over the years between 'versions' as you are well aware of I'm sure.
It's the Jorge's HD650 so you should have no problem confirming our data and impressions w/ the same unit.
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Thanks, I will look into it.
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Just wanted to put the word out that there's something really wrong with some of these cans. Looks like manufacturing problems. Sorta seems like the diaphragms may be messed up and the voice coils rub sometimes. Don't buy one.
You didn't hear it from me ... yet.
Did you contact Focal? What did they say about it?
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Did you contact Focal? What did they say about it?
Mmmmm gotta be careful here .... someone on the inside actually brought the issue to me sort of. He's trying to get the company to address the problem, and knows I might play a roll in fixing it by exposing it to the public sooner rather than later.
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Did you contact Focal? What did they say about it?
Mmmmm gotta be careful here .... someone on the inside actually brought the issue to me sort of. He's trying to get the company to address the problem, and knows I might play a roll in fixing it by exposing it to the public sooner rather than later.
Understandable, though I wonder what the issue is, from what I've seen in your measurements, the very dark signature? the lack of consistency between the two drivers?
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Check out the THD+noise measurements on IF:
- They are inconsistent between left and right channels.
- Also odd that bass distortion is lower than midrange distortion for a dynamic driver.
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Check out the THD+noise measurements on IF:
- They are inconsistent between left and right channels.
- Also odd that bass distortion is lower than midrange distortion for a dynamic driver.
I saw that, they aren't good but I've seen much, much worse, and from long established headphone companies.
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Denon <cough> Shure <cough>
Well at least the Denons and Shures have bad distortion by design, not accident.
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design? Are you talking about the headband and cups? :p
I'd like to see the amount of money these companies spend on engineering vs aesthetics and marketing. For phones like K550, the new Denons, the Shure's etc
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That's why I prefer open headphones.
I usually have problems with closed headphones. The HD265 was one of the worst I tried.
One of the best closed headphone I've found remains the HD250 II...
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Denon <cough> Shure <cough>
Well at least the Denons and Shures have bad distortion by design, not accident.
Bad distortion by Design, it should be a slogan. :)p13
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Tyll, any progress made by Focal towards alleviating their (somewhat unusual) driver issues? I have the chance to pick up a newer white pair for ~$170, but I really don't want to waste my time if there are still problems.
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Problems not solved yet, but I've been promised an official response and it should be in my hands this week. Focal is coming to visit me Dec 6.
Evidently the OEM was doing stupid shit in their diaphragm manufacture. The diaphragms had significant built-in stress problems that caused them to crinkle. I've got pix. Should be an InnerFidelity post within the month re: when the problem will be fixed and what current owners can do. But will have to see the official response before I know what's really up.
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Man thats a huge headache for focal. Do you think its something they could have anticipated? And do you think the focal one would otherwise be a good headphone? It seemed like they were putting some engineering into it.
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Thanks Tyll. I'm not entirely surprised that they had issues, as the Spirit One is their first foray into headphone manufacture. I have had few problems with focal drivers in the past (definitely not driver "crinkling"!), so they must have opened new and untested production line just for headphones...
Now, wait a second... Focal's visiting you?
Are they actually sending representatives up to Montana?
Make sure to grill them about any-and-all upcoming developments for us! popcorn
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Now, wait a second... Focal's visiting you?
Are they actually sending representatives up to Montana?
Make sure to grill them about any-and-all upcoming developments for us! popcorn
Yup. COming up here with a couple of engineers and everything.
Will do re:grilling. headbang
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I'm sure you will get a good song and dance. They should bring some high priced hookers too.
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I'm sure you will get a good song and dance. They should bring some high priced hookers too.
That would be a nice touch.
OOooo la la. Girls with hairy armpits. I'm in.
Hmm...better clean up my bedroom.
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Well? :)p8
How were the oo-la-la girls?
Did they have waterfall plots as tattoos?
Ya know, so you could study them.
In detail… headbang
JJ :)p2
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Ha!
Well, as JJ knows well, the Focal guys were in the house on Thursday. They have fixed the problem, which was due to the factory in China reworking diaphragms during the manufacturing process. These reworked diaphragms would subsequently fail in the field. (They did pass a pretty rigerous QC test before leaving the factory.) Focal found the issue and fixed the problem by demanding that any diaphragm that has a fault anywhere in the manufacturing process is rejected and cannot be reworked.
There was also a problem with the carry case in that it creates a tight seal on the cans when in the case, and if dropped creates a lot of pressure instantaniously on the drivers. This is fixed by changing the case so that it doesn't seal while in the case.
I'll be posting an in-depth article at the end of Jan on the headphones, the problem, the fix, and then a review of the cans. They're decent in the category. Not as good as the Momentum, about as good as the MDR-1R. A fairly good showing for their first product out of the shoot.
All in all, I find Focal took the problem seriously and have acted pretty damned transparently in the comms with me. A serious and well intentioned response to the problems it seems to me.
If you have a Spirit One headphone, put them on and rapidly squeeze them repeatedly against the side of your head. If you can hear the diaphragms crinkling, you can send your headphones in for replacement. If they do not crinkle, you probably don't have the problem, and you will be able to call in to the US distributer and get some replacement standoffs to attach to the case that will space the headphones a littl farther from the bottom of the case so that they don't seal and over-pressure the diaphragms. This service won't be ready until after CES so wait til I publish the article before contacting Audio Plus Services (the US distributor) to have cans replaced or get the case mods.
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Wow, I always thought the crinkle was something in the pads. Guess that solves it.
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Apologies if I stepped on toes a bit on the HF thread, Tyll. People were arguing they were great and awful and broken and wanted to give them a little something to settle them down til your piece was posted.
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No worries, mate.