CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Head Amps, DACs, Sources, Portable Equipment Discussion => Topic started by: Anaxilus on April 28, 2015, 09:50:46 PM

Title: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on April 28, 2015, 09:50:46 PM
Buy it NOW!

schiit.com/products/yggdrasil (http://schiit.com/products/yggdrasil)

If you are a resolution whore like me, an HD800 owner who didn't buy it just for looks or comfort, or at the end game of your ToTL audio journey. BUY THIS NOW!!

I haven't A/B'd with my PWD yet directly, but I know it is now for sale. It's that stark and obvious a difference to me.

This is the first time in a long time I've had to recalibrate my brain to how much new information I am hearing and I just want to keep listening to all my old stuff.

Beware! This DAC will not make your shitty recordings sound like they have been properly remastered or hide their flaws. It is ruthlessly honest. If your music is clean, smooth and liquid it will sound so but with the clarity, resolution, ambient cues, inner harmonics and tonal color dynamics kicked up beyond your last reference DAC. If your music is harsh, gritty or digital sounding on the master (not from your crappy sigma delta or poorly filtered Sabre DAC) it will let you know just how bad it is.

This thing slaughters the MSB analog/diamond/platinum/rhodium/beryllium whatever DAC. If you want a warm and easy going tone imparted on all your music no matter how it was recorded please buy an MSB and DO NOT buy this DAC.

Full review and A/B comparisons coming at the end of next week...

Pre-production notes and impressions here:

www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2047.0.html

Some third party measurements:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements (http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements)

Other measurement thread added:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2405.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2405.0.html)

Ancillary Yggy OMGWTFBBQ thread here:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2414.msg66831/topicseen.html#new

(Man I'm still listening and stuff is just popping out of the 'blackground' and scaring me...)  :boom:
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on April 28, 2015, 09:50:59 PM
Reserved

Negatives


One:
The Lampy had a larger dynamic range, and mids "poped" out from space, which I attribute to the usage of tubes.

This ^! This is the only flaw I've found with the Yggy thus far. A sense of greyness to the back ground that hampers just as you say. Proper tubes offer unprecedented clarity, blackness of background, and depth all which contribute to increased perceptions of resolution and dynamics.

I noticed this comparing the Yggy to my PWD mk1>2 which already was an average to just above average performer with blackness compared to the best DACs out there. The PWD mk1>2 was a little blacker.

That's not to say the Yggy isn't clear, it's astonishingly clear and accurate. It's really two different phenomena. The first is the digital section where anything that isn't part of the recording just melts away and disappears. You have to hear it to believe it. In that sense, every DAC up to this point has clearly been coloring music and people are just used to it. There's simply no way to get around this fact. Anyone that has had a proper superior vinyl experience will understand this. Plus the way images are just locked in and super sharp yet perfectly organic speaks volumes about this DAC. The second phenomenon I believe to be part of the analog output stage. MArv and I have noticed and commented on this sort of greyness before as a Mosfet mist. In this case, Jfets. BJTs have often sounded clearer and blacker IME, but it seems they would be much more difficult to work with in this application and at this price point.

Believe me, you aren't the first to talk about developing a tube output stage for the Yggy.

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2346.msg69739.html#msg69739

Two:
While USB has greatly improved on the Yggy, I still feel coax from an uber transport like a high end vintage CDP or current megabuck CDT (Esoteric, Boulder, etc.) sounds better than PC. That gap has clearly shrunk compared to prior generations of USB implementation, but it is still there if absolute sonics are what you are after. I am still preferring to run the Yggy with the Lynx Hilo as an offramp (USB>AES) from my PC for the best PC side performance I currently get. I have a couple other options I will be exploring in future. In the end, it's clearly a supply side issue and I think a DAC can only do so much when it's being fed garbage to begin with.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Freddy1201 on April 28, 2015, 10:30:05 PM
Yep, i'm only at 4 days of warm-up/burn-in and this dac drives me crazy! What are you using for amplification for your hd800?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on April 28, 2015, 10:41:52 PM
Yep, i'm only at 4 days of warm-up/burn-in and this dac drives me crazy! What are you using for amplification for your hd800?

EC Leviathan prototype.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: evanft on April 28, 2015, 10:57:01 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/8RSGyng.gif)

There's a possibility my order is after the June shipment cut-off, so I'm on the edge of my seat.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: zerodeefex on April 28, 2015, 11:00:31 PM
If you want a warm and easy going tone imparted on all your music no matter how it was recorded please buy an MSB and DO NOT this DAC.



Disagree. Buy this DAC then pay Craig $3k for a nice tube buffer and pocket the additional $5-45K you just saved.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Freddy1201 on April 28, 2015, 11:06:59 PM
EC Leviathan prototype.

Lol, a bit better than mine
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on April 28, 2015, 11:13:34 PM
Not disagreeing, but less than stellar recordings actually sound better on Yggy than other DACs for the following reasons:
For example, take a recording that is bright and over-compressed. The last thing I would want is a badly implemented D-S DAC making the brightness even worse with glare and hashy shit, flattening the already flat sound, and removing any existing sense of bass texture.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on April 28, 2015, 11:16:20 PM
FYI. 122 hours now. Yggy is starting to show signs of its true magic. I figure tomorrow.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Freddy1201 on April 28, 2015, 11:19:42 PM
FYI. 122 hours now. Yggy is starting to show signs of its true magic. I figure tomorrow.

I'm at 90 hours, any improvement would be a miracle, very happy of my purchase. You were right, Yggy is something else. :)p1
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: JoelT on April 28, 2015, 11:23:54 PM


Disagree. Buy this DAC then pay Craig $3k for a nice tube buffer and pocket the additional $5-45K you just saved.

Wait. What? My bank account gently weeps. My Yggy is supposed to arrive on Thursday, it's probably for the best that I'm going to be gone all weekend to let it warm up. popcorn
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on April 28, 2015, 11:47:25 PM
Not disagreeing, but less than stellar recordings actually sound better on Yggy than other DACs for the following reasons:
  • Yggy still manages to extract more low level information than I thought was previously there. Low level information should not necessarily be confused with "detail".
  • Yggy doesn't impart crap, i.e. digital hash, glare, weirdness, temporal grain, artificial warmth or syrup to counteract digital nasties, congest or compress difficult passages in music, etc.
For example, take a recording that is bright and over-compressed. The last thing I would want is a badly implemented D-S DAC making the brightness even worse with glare and hashy shit, flattening the already flat sound, and removing any existing sense of bass texture.

I agree. However, I have this brightly mastered Gloria Estefan CD I use for testing. The Yggy doesn't impart artifacts or nastiness on the master, but it does offer more clarity to hear issues and the tonal contrast (brightness in this case) more obviously. That's why I call it ruthlessly honest/enlightening. So it doesn't make a bad recording sound worse by addition. But, it can make it sound worse by subtraction because it removes a veil that had previously hidden more flaws and recording issues. You start noticing other aberrations in the mixing and mic'ing. If anyone has a problem with getting greater transparency from a DAC, they should be looking elsewhere or saving their money on lesser gear in my opinion.

A DAC should be about truth, and this one is the most honest I've heard yet. Not by small margin either.

So I guess I'm saying it does both, making them better and worse at the same time. Depends on your perspective.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on April 29, 2015, 02:08:27 AM
I see it more as enlightening rather than ruthless. It's neat to hear how the engineers made a recording - that is if you have an appreciation for that, as long the presentation is natural.

I'll take enlightening/ruthless/honest over $4000 princess-ultrasmooth-PCM1704-special or dalek-timbre-pseudo-detail-monster DACs.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: s1 on April 29, 2015, 02:54:27 AM
double post
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: s1 on April 29, 2015, 02:56:15 AM

FYI. 122 hours now. Yggy is starting to show signs of its true magic. I figure tomorrow.


Just passed the 100th hour and anxious to get to where true magic lies.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: zerodeefex on April 29, 2015, 03:08:14 AM
Dinged 125 before my first interruption. 1-2 seconds to switch it to a pure sine wave UPS so it has 83 hours of uninterrupted time on before the may 2 mini meet.


edited time: it was actually less than 2 seconds to switch it over.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: knerian on April 29, 2015, 03:56:23 AM
Dinged 125 before my first interruption. 30 seconds to switch it to a pure sine wave UPS so it has 83 hours of uninterrupted time on before the may 2 mini meet.
Thank you!!!!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on April 29, 2015, 04:05:19 AM
I see it more as enlightening rather than ruthless. It's neat to hear how the engineers made a recording - that is if you have an appreciation for that, as long the presentation is natural.

I'll take enlightening/ruthless/honest over $4000 princess-ultrasmooth-PCM1704-special or dalek-timbre-pseudo-detail-monster DACs.

Fair enough, I wasn't clear enough in the context of being ruthless with respect to honesty and transparency. Not brutal offensive sound. Will correct the lexical ambiguity now.

Edit-Nvm, I did say "ruthlessly honest" in my OP. I'll update the followup.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: zerodeefex on April 29, 2015, 04:11:44 AM
Haha, I can see this being slightly polarizing. I believe 95% of people will prefer the transparency into poor recording and 5% will be distracted. It definitely adds to the realism for me, especially with old, mediocre classical recordings.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on April 29, 2015, 04:38:13 AM
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/metrum2/16.png)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on April 29, 2015, 05:10:06 AM
Haha, I can see this being slightly polarizing. I believe 95% of people will prefer the transparency into poor recording and 5% will be distracted. It definitely adds to the realism for me, especially with old, mediocre classical recordings.

I agree completely. Even if you hear more 'issues' you get better SS and imaging, better low level information and harmonics like trailing decays and reverbs. Not to mention sounds and noises just pop more from the blackness. It's very involving. It made my Gloria Estefan CD worse but also more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Sorrodje on April 29, 2015, 09:21:25 AM
I noticed that with the totaldac as wel. It's Way more resolving than the Octave but I m' really surprised (and pleased) that even so-so recorded/mastered recordings improved.  I always thought before that more resolution = bye bye to a lot of music.

BTW my amp is a culprit in my current system . The Sonett is forgiving for the source. Maybe I'll have different opinion is a more tranparent amp.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: dglow on April 29, 2015, 07:17:56 PM
Hello. Recently new member to Changstar here, posting as the (very) pleased owner of a shiny new Yggy .

I find the "it might reveal flaws in my recordings" argument difficult to stomach. At issue is the fundamental role of a source component in the audio chain.

The end goal of all transports should be simple: perfect reproduction of the analog signal as it came off the mixing/mastering board, no? If accepted, that leaves little room for debate over 'whether' or 'how much' transparency a transport/DAC should provide. The only remaining discussion becomes how perfectly does said transport reproduce that original signal?

IMO if one doesn't like the sound of a recording coming off an ideal, "perfectly transparent" DAC, that's fine. But the role of shaping that sound must come further down the chain – via tubes, EQ, choice of cans/speakers, hell, even cables if you wish. This leaves the source/DAC pure in its aspiration to a Platonic Form of transparent reproduction.

Apologies if that borders on philosophical. In reading the comparisons of various DACs I think we sometimes lose sight of this ultimate (perhaps impossible?) goal.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: MisterRogers on April 29, 2015, 07:24:17 PM
BTW my amp is a culprit in my current system . The Sonett is forgiving for the source. Maybe I'll have different opinion is a more tranparent amp.

The Sonett IS very forgiving; it's a very enjoyable listen. I've been switching between my modded Sonett & S7; the S7 is comparatively very surgical - lots of inner detail.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on April 29, 2015, 07:29:56 PM
dGlow, what took you so long!

Anyways, like you, I also find the "it might reveals flaws in my recordings" argument difficult to stomach, especially for a high-end expensive DAC. But I also understand where people are coming from, especially if they have not been exposed to good DACs and came from craptastic implementations of S-D DACs. The fundamental misunderstanding is that what many people think is "detailed" or "resolving".

High resolution is high resolution. It is always better. To illustrate this point, see pictures below.

Typical decent D-S DAC
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9390;image)

Typical Sabre DAC
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9392;image)

Yggdrasil
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9394;image)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Sorrodje on April 29, 2015, 07:34:03 PM
The Sonett IS very forgiving; it's a very enjoyable listen. I've been switching between my modded Sonett & S7; the S7 is comparatively very surgical - lots of inner detail.

Yep too much forgiving . I realized that with the Totaldac. I was stunned by the result with the Stax rig ( SRM1-mk2/SR404) but not as much with the Sonett/HD800. maybe it's a matter of synergy but i think more than the Sonett is not transparent enough. It tends to make the HD800 sound like an uber HD600. it's great but it's not what I'm after .  Time to upgrade to the Stratus.   
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Armaegis on April 29, 2015, 07:54:30 PM
Interesting that the Sabre one has the largest file size. Dunno why that amuses me...

I mean, uh, results are inconclusive. Further samples are required.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: 7ryder on April 29, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
yes, I plan to look into these resolution examples much, much closer with the door closed so I'm not disturbed...I want to make sure that I have a deep understanding of the differences.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: MuZo2 on April 29, 2015, 08:15:33 PM
ygg is also jpeg quality?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: evanft on April 29, 2015, 08:26:16 PM
Dat ass tho.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: dglow on April 29, 2015, 09:41:30 PM
High resolution is high resolution. It is always better. To illustrate this point, see pictures below.

Yggdrasil
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9394;image)

I'm a little worried about this... something might be wrong with my Yggy. After five days of burn-in I'm only hearing only tight t-shirts and cutoff jeans – nothing even approaching a string bikini. There are notes of smoldering bedroom eyes, but nary an over-the-shoulder 'come hither' smile.

Think I should call support?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: evanft on April 29, 2015, 10:01:03 PM
I'm a little worried about this... something might be wrong with my Yggy. After five days of burn-in I'm only hearing only tight t-shirts and cutoff jeans – nothing even approaching a string bikini. There are notes of smoldering bedroom eyes, but nary an over-the-shoulder 'come hither' smile.

Think I should call support?


I'd just rub one out and then take a nap. Give Yggy more time to warm up.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on April 30, 2015, 09:07:23 AM
.

I'm a little worried about this... something might be wrong with my Yggy. After five days of burn-in I'm only hearing only tight t-shirts and cutoff jeans – nothing even approaching a string bikini. There are notes of smoldering bedroom eyes, but nary an over-the-shoulder 'come hither' smile.

.

I suspect you may me thinking too much about your own satisfaction here. Work a bit harder at trying to find out more about what Yggy likes. Maybe you're just not stroking the right places in the right way. Maybe you need to talk to each other about this.

But hey, what do I know! Yggy is way out of my class!  You're a lucky guy to even be in the same room
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on April 30, 2015, 07:10:02 PM
165 hours now. The Yggy has arrived. This is when the magic occurs. When all this talk about Yggy being honest, does this, does that, etc. doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Chris F on April 30, 2015, 08:10:20 PM
Mine arrived yesterday.  I'm taking daily notes; will report in a week, maybe two.  Ideally I want to wait till the new toy effect has worn off and I can be fully objective but that will probably take a few months.

Using it with Rag/LCD3F and Event Opal studio monitors. 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: cizx on May 01, 2015, 02:18:27 AM

Typical decent D-S DAC
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9390;image)

Typical Sabre DAC
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9392;image)

Yggdrasil
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9394;image)

So... Unnecessarily bloated with a loose bottom end and artificially bright top end, and ultimately a total waste of time and money, but a little more obviously so based on these pictures. Good to know.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: jsgraha on May 01, 2015, 05:17:00 AM
I'm thinking to upgrade my current setup of sonicweld diverter (with linear power supply) & audio-gd ref-7 to this dac. I may be able to pick up one from my local retailer in Australia. The rest of my current setup consist of current generation stratus and hd800-lcdX. Based on impression so far, it seem that upgrading to this dac will provide improvement on bass and better depth of soundstage (please correct me if I'm wrong). Even though I'm very happy with performance of my current setup, its bass impact and soundstage, still thinking if it can be improved with this dac.

However, how is the tonality and timbre of this dac, compare to master 7 or ref7. I had an opportunity a while ago to a/b master7 & ref7, and found master7 lower/mid treble bit dry for my taste.

I may have a chance to audition one before buying, but I doubt it will be warm up properly so it might make the process of auditioning bit useless.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 01, 2015, 05:33:06 AM
No contest. Nothing AGD has or will ever have can touch it in anyway. Frankly, the comparison is almost insulting.  ;)

Updating OP with some third party measurements from another site we choose not censor.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: thune on May 01, 2015, 06:36:59 AM
Looking at the yggy's squarewave closeup (http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/b7/900x900px-LL-b78cadc1_20150430Yggdrasil20Hzsqr6Vpp500uSdiv.PNG) (as a proxy for impulse response), the mega-electric-burrito oversampling filter can be seen: (looks to be) fully symmetrical and linear phase, possessing an exceptionally low amount of ringing while maintaining an admirably flat 44.1k frequency response. (http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/d9/900x900px-LL-d9511f2d_20150430YggdrasilFRYaxishighlyzoomed.PNG) [For some reason I got the impression that the yggy's impulse response would be asymmetrical, leading to my mistaken guess that the filter was minimum-phase. (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2047.msg60170.html#msg60170)]

Mega-burrito: flat response (-0.1db@20k), minimal temporal ringing [maybe minimal FR/phase ringing too], linear phase, preserves samples (FIR-filter passes through zero at integral k of the original fs). [Generating these characteristics in a solved math way is impressive. I might be able to find something close through optimization, but I can't just input ".968" into a mystery burrito maker/function and get a tasty wrap: well done.]
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: jsgraha on May 01, 2015, 07:07:12 AM
No contest. Nothing AGD has or will ever have can touch it in anyway. Frankly, the comparison is almost insulting.  ;)

Updating OP with some third party measurements from another site we choose not censor.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements

Wow, it seem that it will stomp my agd-diverter combo. Can't wait to have one on my chain  :-) Thanks Anax
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on May 01, 2015, 07:50:04 AM
So... Unnecessarily bloated with a loose bottom end and artificially bright top end, and ultimately a total waste of time and money, but a little more obviously so based on these pictures. Good to know.

Looks to me like a very well controlled bass --- but the pictures give us no clue a to how forward the top end is.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Azteca X on May 01, 2015, 01:23:33 PM
Gee, I wonder why there aren't more women in the hobby...
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: atomicbob on May 01, 2015, 01:43:35 PM
No contest. Nothing AGD has or will ever have can touch it in anyway. Frankly, the comparison is almost insulting.  ;)

Updating OP with some third party measurements from another site we choose not censor.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements
I attempted to post the technical measurements here but due to my low post count, it took admin intervention to allow me to upload pictures into a post. I will put all of that into a post here this weekend. Day job requires some measurements from me for acoustic evaluations of enclosures.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: firev1 on May 01, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Nice one atomicbob! Have a few requests :3

1. Reconstruction filter characterisation - White noise overlayed with a HF wideband spectrum of a 19.1khz tone both played at 44.1kSPS to look at them aliasing and Schiit's awesome filter.

2. Impulse Response

3. I'm sure you gonna do it but hey 1khz -3dbFS FFT. 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: kevin on May 01, 2015, 07:51:51 PM
Listening after 48 Hrs of warmup. Now I know what all the talk about digititus was about.

Compared to my Anedio D2 the Ygg is so nice to listen to - the passages that made me cringe no longer do. It's not that the musical info is missing it's just that I'm able to open my ears and listen to it. No fear.

Also, Benthic and Planktonic Foraminfera in abundance.

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Pat on May 02, 2015, 10:22:23 PM
Hope mine comes in next week, I'm getting fuckin impatient!

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: atomicbob on May 03, 2015, 07:38:25 PM
Nice one atomicbob! Have a few requests :3

1. Reconstruction filter characterisation - White noise overlayed with a HF wideband spectrum of a 19.1khz tone both played at 44.1kSPS to look at them aliasing and Schiit's awesome filter.

2. Impulse Response

3. I'm sure you gonna do it but hey 1khz -3dbFS FFT. 
It will be in the next measurement set after warmup. I use square wave for the step response and to assess what, if any, DC coupling caps are in the path. What level is the white noise? What crest factor of white noise? There are plenty of different variants for white noise implementations.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: EraserXIV on May 03, 2015, 08:18:52 PM
Hope mine comes in next week, I'm getting fuckin impatient!

Mine shipped last Tuesday and is due to arrive this Tuesday.. longest week-long wait ever. The $50 extra for 2-day shipping seems so insignificant now, should have just ponied up for it lol
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: thune on May 03, 2015, 08:21:16 PM
atomicbob,
I'd like to request a 50hz(0dbfs or -0.1dbfs) spectrum into a real load.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Hands on May 03, 2015, 08:24:24 PM
Would be nice to see various single tone THD results and various IMD results as well to supplement the existing measurements you have taken so far. Also agreed on wanting to see impulse response or, if not that, 1KHz square wave results.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: lm4der on May 04, 2015, 05:43:03 PM
Gee, I wonder why there aren't more women in the hobby...

+1
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: cizx on May 04, 2015, 05:50:34 PM
Gee, I wonder why there aren't more women in the hobby...
+1

Let's try not to be sexist... there are women in the hobby. They just don't have anything valuable to add to the discussion. (Kinda like me!)

(Self deprecation and mild, obviously satirical chauvinism is okay.)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: jexby on May 04, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
shit, just ordered an Yggy.
someone shoot me in the head.

new arrivals:  Yggy in July and Liquid Carbon in August.
then I sign off for a year to avoid all pyrate talk of future glitter-coated products or Moffat designed robots.
 :)p13

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: lm4der on May 04, 2015, 07:06:35 PM
Quote from: lmader on Today at 10:43:03 AM
Quote from: Azteca X on May 01, 2015, 06:23:33 AM
Gee, I wonder why there aren't more women in the hobby...
+1

Let's try not to be sexist... there are women in the hobby.

I suspect the context for this didn't persist, but it was in reference to the bikini pics posted earlier in the thread. I don't really have an axe to grind here, I liked the pics, but I also know many women who find that sort of thing off-putting.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Azteca X on May 04, 2015, 07:16:55 PM
I don't really have an axe to grind here, I liked the pics, but I also know many women who find that sort of thing off-putting.

Yeah, in this case it's just that the photo could literally have been of anything, like a macro shot of a flower, or a sports photo, or a closeup of a face, etc.

Anyhow, Yggy really seems to be garnering universal praise. I especially liked someone's comment about lots of  agreement about amp differences due to the prevalence of Yggy. Can't wait til half of Chang has it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: kevin on May 04, 2015, 07:51:58 PM
Yeah, in this case it's just that the photo could literally have been of anything, like a macro shot of a flower, or a sports photo, or a closeup of a face, etc.

I'm confused by the picture labeled yggdrasil. The foreground is in sharp resolution but the background is fuzzy and out of focus.

Is that meant to be a comment on the depth of the soundstage? That concerns me.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 04, 2015, 08:08:39 PM
I'm confused by the picture labeled yggdrasil. The foreground is in sharp resolution but the background is fuzzy and out of focus.

Is that meant to be a comment on the depth of the soundstage? That concerns me.


Uhh...that's how a proper photo taking perspective shots is supposed to look. Stop overthinking it.....
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: lm4der on May 04, 2015, 08:45:32 PM
Uhh...that's how a proper photo taking perspective shots is supposed to look. Stop overthinking it.....

I'm pretty sure he was punkin' us.  I, for one, was focused on the foreground.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 04, 2015, 10:33:06 PM
+1

I hope you guys realize there is an 80% chance that we will have a page three girls section before the end of the year.

Not so much male chauvinism as immaturity.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: BournePerfect on May 04, 2015, 11:53:46 PM
I attempted to post the technical measurements here but due to my low post count, it took admin intervention to allow me to upload pictures into a post. I will put all of that into a post here this weekend. Day job requires some measurements from me for acoustic evaluations of enclosures.


Because there's a pic objectifying women in about 1:10,000 audio posts? Ironic, considering their whole lives are spent objectifying themselves...






















What?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 05, 2015, 12:12:00 AM

Because there's a pic objectifying women in about 1:10,000 audio posts? Ironic, considering their whole lives are spent objectifying themselves...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xPaeONSn_8
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Claritas on May 05, 2015, 12:17:07 AM
Ironic, considering their whole lives are spent objectifying themselves...

"Hasn't it ever occurred to you that she subjectified him first?" To my enduring disbelief, this line of so-called reasoning actually makes a dent in those sorts of discussions.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: dglow on May 05, 2015, 01:08:35 AM
Women and men objectify one another quite equally, thank you very much. They just tend to focus on different qualities.
It's we humans that are culpable, not any specific gender or orientation.

As to taking 'offense' over another's interest in attractive examples of the human body... methinks that's some Puritan hangover. We've been trying to sleep that one off for a couple of hundred years now.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 05, 2015, 01:12:54 AM
All this because Moffat BassTM makes asses shake (and highly resolving too).
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: x838nwy on May 05, 2015, 01:50:14 AM
All this because Moffat BassTM makes asses shake (and highly resolving too).

There should totally be a toggle switch for that.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Armaegis on May 05, 2015, 03:51:46 AM
I've never heard anyone refer to that as a toggle before...  :)p8
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on May 05, 2015, 12:00:05 PM

Quote (selected)
There should totally be a toggle switch for that.
Quote (selected)
I've never heard anyone refer to that as a toggle before...

So that's why "up" is "on" in America! Never made any sense to me before.

 :)p7

.
I hope you guys realize there is an 80% chance that we will have a page three girls section before the end of the year.
.

What, like stuff people lock the bedroom door and get out the tissues for? Naked IEMs ...with ear wax?

 p:0
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Bolos on May 05, 2015, 11:50:44 PM
I Initially started reporting my impressions of the Yggy last week on head-fi. My impressions were positive, but I dared to say that I was not seeing any improvement on my modi2u.

Eventually, my account was banned and my messages were deleted from the thread.

head-fi is unethical.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: EraserXIV on May 06, 2015, 12:07:41 AM
I Initially started reporting my impressions of the Yggy last week on head-fi. My impressions were positive, but I dared to say that I was not seeing any improvement on my modi2u.

Eventually, my account was banned and my messages were deleted from the thread.

head-fi is unethical.

What amp are you using?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Bolos on May 06, 2015, 12:20:04 AM
I'm using the Rag.

PS: and I am very happy about my buy
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: jexby on May 06, 2015, 02:30:43 AM
I Initially started reporting my impressions of the Yggy last week on head-fi. My impressions were positive, but I dared to say that I was not seeing any improvement on my modi2u.

Eventually, my account was banned and my messages were deleted from the thread.

head-fi is unethical.

I can't wait to see the HF mods and Jude in person at CanJam.
it's not going to be pretty, maybe a pyrate would like to video/Vine it from the floor?

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Chris F on May 06, 2015, 02:42:01 AM
I Initially started reporting my impressions of the Yggy last week on head-fi. My impressions were positive, but I dared to say that I was not seeing any improvement on my modi2u.

Eventually, my account was banned and my messages were deleted from the thread.

head-fi is unethical.

Do you hear a difference now?  If not, do you want some help with what to listen for? 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Claritas on May 06, 2015, 02:54:53 AM
I Initially started reporting my impressions of the Yggy last week on head-fi. My impressions were positive, but I dared to say that I was not seeing any improvement on my modi2u.

Eventually, my account was banned and my messages were deleted from the thread.

You left out the "previously banned member" part. I didn't believe you then, even less now.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Azteca X on May 06, 2015, 03:00:20 AM
I'm using the Rag.

PS: and I am very happy about my buy
I'm using the Rag.

PS: and I am very happy about my buy

"I spent $2300 and hear no difference and am very happy with my purchase."

Why don't you return it and send me $2000?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: anetode on May 06, 2015, 06:39:57 AM
I Initially started reporting my impressions of the Yggy last week on head-fi. My impressions were positive, but I dared to say that I was not seeing any improvement on my modi2u.

Eventually, my account was banned and my messages were deleted from the thread.

head-fi is unethical.

Bullshit dogma, all the current mods disagree with the notion of properly built DACs sounding the same. Same thing here, to an extent, but at least we won't delete your posts out of disagreement. Grats on the purchase, I'm glad it's working out for you, regardless of your reasons for keeping it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Bolos on May 06, 2015, 07:16:12 AM
You left out the "previously banned member" part. I didn't believe you then, even less now.

I'm not asking you to. Go enjoy the soundstage of your audioquest cable!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: ultrabike on May 06, 2015, 07:38:30 AM
I'm not asking you to. Go enjoy the soundstage of your audioquest cable!

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2346.0;attach=9431;image)

(... and nobody cares.)

+++

BTW, no need to get defensive. It is what it is. If you don't hear a difference, maybe you will later, maybe you won't. Such are the ways of the force.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Bolos on May 06, 2015, 07:57:16 AM

BTW, no need to get defensive. It is what it is. If you don't hear a difference, maybe you will later, maybe you won't. Such are the ways of the force.

Right, apologies to Mr Claritas. I think I get it what he meant by 'previously banned member' and I am also afraid I understand the moronic way head-fi's 'previously banned' aggregation works.

Either way, I'm totally cool with the fact I am not hearing any difference and in no way would I imply that people who do hear one are wrong. I'm just not in a state of denial about my own hears, that's all :P

The Yggy is a great product, which goes perfectly with my Rag (which I had for free). Sounds great, has tons of inputs and should be future proof. I may not hear any difference but the math behind it sounds kind of fascinating to me. So all in all, I'm not sad at all to have dropped $2.4k and will be keeping it.

just my .2 non-audiophile engineer cents.

PS: Phase inversion does make a difference tho.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: EraserXIV on May 06, 2015, 08:14:59 AM
How can I had a Rag for free?  ;)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: x838nwy on May 06, 2015, 10:58:21 AM
How can I had a Rag for free?  ;)

That and where can I find an m2Uber that sounds like a Yggy?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: MuZo2 on May 06, 2015, 11:02:14 AM
I think they forgot to ship golden/platinum or whatever ears with Yggdrasil
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Priidik on May 06, 2015, 11:45:37 AM
The curve is long and slow on the ears indeed.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 06, 2015, 01:45:58 PM
@Bolos: I'm betting more than a few people flagged your post and the mods there though you were trolling. I don't not believe what you hear. Carry on.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: insidious meme on May 06, 2015, 02:27:43 PM
I may not hear any difference but the math behind it sounds kind of fascinating to me. So all in all, I'm not sad at all to have dropped $2.4k and will be keeping it.


Of all the reasons to keep an Yggy, I'll admit this one came out of left field.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: MuZo2 on May 06, 2015, 02:32:44 PM
Marketing at Schiit should get additional bonus, I guess bigger than the engineers. ;)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 06, 2015, 05:41:18 PM
I'll trade you my ODAC and $500 for the Yggy's internals. You can use your supposed engineering skills to wire it up to the chassis and have the penultimate reference DAC for people who can't hear differences due to confirmation bias or other age related factors. You can call it the Bigshot I DAC!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Riotvan on May 06, 2015, 05:55:10 PM
I used to play wow and this name keeps reminding me of a murlock, good thing it probably doesn't sound like one :)p14
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Lojay on May 06, 2015, 06:14:11 PM
Bolos, what you are saying has only two implications, (a) you have tin ears or (b) you have normal hearing but everyone else who is hearing how amazing the Yggy is are hallucinating / stupid enough to fall for confirmation bias? Which is it?

My Yggy is in my office. I asked my colleague to come over and listen to it through my HD800 and SR009. He is not a keen audiophile. On the first day my colleague heard a thin sounding, slightly harsh sound which he didn't like. On the 9th day he liked the sound very much (playing the same songs) and was amazed by how fluid, analog and natural things sounded, how deep and wide the soundstage was, and how detailed things were.

I happen to hear the same things. So has Marv and others. I do not think we are hallucinating.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: lm4der on May 06, 2015, 06:21:20 PM
Bolos, what you are saying has only two implications, (a) you have tin ears or (b) you have normal hearing but everyone else who is hearing how amazing the Yggy is are hallucinating / stupid enough to fall for confirmation bias? Which is it?

Well, I think there is a larger question here:  Does everyone, and I mean _everyone_ hear the differences in various DACs, or at least with the Yggy compared to cheap DACs? Is it really that blatantly obvious? If not, do all of the people who don't hear a difference have tin ears? Or does it require a sophisticated, skilled listener to notice these differences, rather than lack of hearing acuity. Or other explanations?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 06, 2015, 06:22:37 PM
no no. I actually do not doubt what he is hearing or not hearing. In other words, I believe him. I chalk it up to this:

(http://coachtactics.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/bell-curve.jpg)

Sort of someone else's idea so I cant take credit for it. But it does make sense.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Chris F on May 06, 2015, 06:24:44 PM
I strongly try and avoid assuming/speculating but when Bolos says he does not normally hear a difference yet the polarity switch is an audible difference my reaction is something like ---->  :-Z
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Lojay on May 06, 2015, 06:27:01 PM
Well, I think there is a larger question here:  Does everyone, and I mean _everyone_ hear the differences in various DACs, or at least with the Yggy compared to cheap DACs? Is it really that blatantly obvious? If not, do all of the people who don't hear a difference have tin ears? Or does it require a sophisticated, skilled listener to notice these differences, rather than lack of hearing acuity. Or other explanations?
Can't speak for everyone, but for me, yes. I've done blind AB tests with a Naim DAC and Emotiva (similar results), an AMR DP777 (slightly better) and MSB Analog (immediately apparent, esp in leading edges and attack, giving me the first "holy shit" moment from a DAC). Much depends on the rest of your gear though.

The hardest thing to test for is S-D digital hash. I cannot identify the relative presence of lack of it in a blind test. But the COMPLETE lack of it is evidenced by the sheer purity of tone I hear on the Yggy.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: cizx on May 06, 2015, 06:30:08 PM
I have to concentrate to hear differences, usually... but there are some examples that stick with me as outliers... HD 800 w/ Gungnir and Ragnarok is one, and LCD-X with BMC PureDAC is another. Those are distinctly different from all the other noise I hear.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Chris F on May 06, 2015, 06:31:36 PM
Well, I think there is a larger question here:  Does everyone, and I mean _everyone_ hear the differences in various DACs, or at least with the Yggy compared to cheap DACs? Is it really that blatantly obvious? If not, do all of the people who don't hear a difference have tin ears? Or does it require a sophisticated, skilled listener to notice these differences, rather than lack of hearing acuity. Or other explanations?

I'm going to conduct this test next time I have a visitor.  I'll play them a song using the headphone out on my MBP and then switch to the Yggdrasil.  To me the difference is so enormous (and I feel that my ears are nothing special/I have lots to learn about critical listening) that I think anyone, regardless of experience, will be able to immediately hear the difference. 

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Lojay on May 06, 2015, 06:33:01 PM
no no. I actually do not doubt what he is hearing or not hearing. In other words, I believe him. I chalk it up to this:

(http://coachtactics.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/bell-curve.jpg)

Sort of someone else's idea so I cant take credit for it. But it does make sense.
True. To be fairer to him I edited my post. People hear differently.  Hearing can be trained. But part of the excitement of this hobby is to find others who hear the same as you, assuming there is no confirmation bias. Anyway, let's get back to enjoying the music.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 06, 2015, 06:35:58 PM
There's a myriad of reasons why people may or may not hear things. All of which are valid. Where the BS meter goes off is paying $2.4K for something that sounds to you like anything else for a couple hundred bucks, and saying you'll keep it and be out the money to match a Ragnarok you got for free. Those details are irrelevant to audibility claims and suggest other alterior motives regarding why they are even posting in the first place. Personally, I don't find his post worth the time and effort people are giving it atm because of this.

It's an interesting topic that should have it's own thread rather than derailing this one. His post and attitude to me just smacks of another veiled attack against Schiit products by zealous pseudo-objectivists like Shiike, et. al did with the Lyr on every forum they could log on to.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: lm4der on May 06, 2015, 06:40:32 PM
There's a myriad of reasons why people may or may not hear things. All of which are valid. Where the BS meter goes off is paying $2.4K for something that sounds to you like anything else for a couple hundred bucks, and saying you'll keep it and be out the money to match a Ragnarok you got for free. Those details are irrelevant to audibility claims and suggest other alterior motives regarding why they are even posting in the first place. Personally, I don't find his post worth the time and effort people are giving it atm because of this.

It's an interesting topic that should have it's own thread rather than derailing this one. His post and attitude to me just smacks of another veiled attack against Schiit products by zealous pseudo-objectivists like Shiike, et. al did with the Lyr on every forum they could log on to.

Gotcha, well said. This tripped my spidey sense too, and I could tell others were feeling it.  Nice summary of that feeling.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: knerian on May 06, 2015, 07:03:00 PM
no no. I actually do not doubt what he is hearing or not hearing. In other words, I believe him. I chalk it up to this:

(http://coachtactics.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/bell-curve.jpg)

Sort of someone else's idea so I cant take credit for it. But it does make sense.

Why would hearing ability be any different than strength, intelligence, dexterity, vertical leap? 

Sure you can train it, but some things people will naturally be better than others, and obviously there will be a variance in people's absolute hearing ability.  I think we forget in these audio forums that people are not created equally.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: anetode on May 06, 2015, 07:07:55 PM
Bolos, what you are saying has only two implications, (a) you have tin ears or (b) you have normal hearing but everyone else who is hearing how amazing the Yggy is are hallucinating / stupid enough to fall for confirmation bias? Which is it?

So either option must be insulting to at least one party?

a) Most people have decent hearing, the differences lay in experience and training.
b) Your peripheral vision is a "hallucination", keeping rhythm in your head is a "hallucination", just about every sensory process has a component which can be derided as being merely hallucinatory and well over 90% of the decisions you make everyday are automatic and at best semi-conscious, each guided by a variety of biases as shortcuts.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: anetode on May 06, 2015, 07:12:14 PM
Why would hearing ability be any different than strength, intelligence, dexterity, vertical leap? 

Sure you can train it, but some things people will naturally be better than others, and obviously there will be a variance in people's absolute hearing ability.  I think we forget in these audio forums that people are not created equally.

A bell curve isn't the best way to categorize hearing acuity, or for that matter the acuity of any other sensory input. These vary based on age, physiological damage, concentration, selective attention, etc. etc. No one can be categorized as having a singular 'hearing quotient'. I'm guessing that Marv's is a convenient subjective grouping based on his own intuition.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: MuZo2 on May 06, 2015, 07:13:29 PM
I'm going to conduct this test next time I have a visitor.  I'll play them a song using the headphone out on my MBP and then switch to the Yggdrasil.  To me the difference is so enormous (and I feel that my ears are nothing special/I have lots to learn about critical listening) that I think anyone, regardless of experience, will be able to immediately hear the difference. 



Thats  not going to work, I tried with  several colleagues with different gear.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: anetode on May 06, 2015, 07:15:42 PM
Thats  not going to work, I tried with  several colleagues with different gear.


Hell, I'm pretty sure that you can convince someone that two identical MBPs sound different if you slap an audiophile sticker on one :P
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 06, 2015, 07:20:28 PM
Hell, I'm pretty sure that you can convince someone that two identical MBPs sound different if you slap an audiophile sticker on one :P

Just use a Macbook and a Macbook Pro. Apple's already done the work for you.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Pat on May 06, 2015, 11:43:43 PM
Getting back to Yggy Dac impressions:

After two days my friend said his is already sounding much better than his Auralic Vega, eg. more detail, no edge or digititus what-so-ever, better separation, instruments in the stage not realized before and stronger dynamics emerging.

Mine's due tomorrow, I like what's being heard so far :)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 07, 2015, 12:07:40 AM
Getting back to Yggy Dac impressions:

After two days my friend said his is already sounding much better than his Auralic Vega, eg. more detail, no edge or digititus what-so-ever, better separation, instruments in the stage not realized before and stronger dynamics emerging.

Mine's due tomorrow, I like what's being heard so far :)

That sounds pretty spot on to my own experience and mirrors others as well.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Negura on May 07, 2015, 12:16:35 AM
I'd like to hear more from people who have some of the better DACs to compare with. That's the best way - no doubts about what the brain is or isn't getting used to. And which amp/headphones are being used.
The first few days impressions were those of a "technical DAC". I'd suggest to ask your friend again around 110-120 hours. For me, and someone else too, that was when I got some of the first good signs of what was about to come. :)

It's 1:15am and I should be sleeping but am clearly not. Not sure what the problem could be...

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Mofomamy on May 07, 2015, 03:36:06 AM
Gentlemen,

I'm the proud new owner of the Yggdrasil! I sold my Mjolnir and Gungnir to help defray the cost of Yggy so I'm in need of an amp. I have the Ether on order and am trying to choose between Cavalli's new Liquid Crimson and forthcoming Carbon. I would be very grateful for any advice especially from anyone who has heard Yggy with either amp. I confess to having some qualms about the Crimson being single-ended. Will single-ended gimp Yggy? Cost is secondary to sonic quality.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 07, 2015, 03:42:04 AM
Great Balanced > Great SE >>> Merely Good Balanced > Merely Good SE >>> Mediocre Balanced >~= Mediocre SE

Get the best amp you can get and don't worry about balanced for not.

Let this topic be spoken of no more.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 07, 2015, 03:54:09 AM
Gentlemen,

I'm the proud new owner of the Yggdrasil! I sold my Mjolnir and Gungnir to help defray the cost of Yggy so I'm in need of an amp. I have the Ether on order and am trying to choose between Cavalli's new Liquid Crimson and forthcoming Carbon. I would be very grateful for any advice especially from anyone who has heard Yggy with either amp. I confess to having some qualms about the Crimson being single-ended. Will single-ended gimp Yggy? Cost is secondary to sonic quality.

Oh if it's between the Crimson or Carbon, by all means get the Crimson and don't look back. As good as the Carbon is for it's price point, the Crimson is in another league. Alex does great work with hybrid amps. You won't regret the Crimson/Yggy pairing unless you want something warm, slow and gooey instead.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 07, 2015, 03:54:25 AM
No one can be categorized as having a singular 'hearing quotient'. I'm guessing that Marv's is a convenient subjective grouping based on his own intuition.

The audiophile hearing quotient bell curve takes into account age, damaged ears, concentration, training, lack of training, stupidity, placebo effect, confirmation bias (which goes both ways), ability to communicate, sensitivities, etc. The curve does not reflect human potential, but things as they are, for whatever reason they are.

At one time, I truly wanted to believe that we all mostly hear the same (assuming non damaged ears), but now I am starting to understand what matters is the way things are, not what they could be.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Colgin on May 07, 2015, 03:57:41 AM
Gentlemen,

I'm the proud new owner of the Yggdrasil! I sold my Mjolnir and Gungnir to help defray the cost of Yggy so I'm in need of an amp. I have the Ether on order and am trying to choose between Cavalli's new Liquid Crimson and forthcoming Carbon. I would be very grateful for any advice especially from anyone who has heard Yggy with either amp. I confess to having some qualms about the Crimson being single-ended. Will single-ended gimp Yggy? Cost is secondary to sonic quality.

At the NY meet I heard the Ether through both the Liquid Carbon and the Liquid Crimosn both using the Yggy.  I am very close to pulling the trigger on the Carbon as it is really excellent at its price and nicely compact.  The Ether and my own PM-2 both sounded excellent off that setup. But no doubt I would get the Crimson if I could afford it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Sorrodje on May 07, 2015, 08:51:05 AM
Why would hearing ability be any different than strength, intelligence, dexterity, vertical leap? 

Sure you can train it, but some things people will naturally be better than others, and obviously there will be a variance in people's absolute hearing ability.  I think we forget in these audio forums that people are not created equally.

I agree with that but I disagree too.

I take as a fact that everyone will do better with training. so , everyone can improve even the less talented of us. then, you can't know if a guy is really talented or not before training.  Even the most talented sprinter will stay unknown if he don't work.

So for beginners in audio or anything else , it's important to focus on training. I don't believe that people are equally talented but I strongly believe that nobody should give up before trying.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: anetode on May 07, 2015, 10:23:07 PM
The audiophile hearing quotient bell curve takes into account age, damaged ears, concentration, training, lack of training, stupidity, placebo effect, confirmation bias (which goes both ways), ability to communicate, sensitivities, etc. The curve does not reflect human potential, but things as they are, for whatever reason they are.

At one time, I truly wanted to believe that we all mostly hear the same (assuming non damaged ears), but now I am starting to understand what matters is the way things are, not what they could be.

So yeah, a subjective quotient which is based on your own intuitive understanding of an amalgam of factors. Doesn't really make sense to argue with this other than to say I think you're wrong.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: knerian on May 07, 2015, 10:56:42 PM
I agree with that but I disagree too.

I take as a fact that everyone will do better with training. so , everyone can improve even the less talented of us. then, you can't know if a guy is really talented or not before training.  Even the most talented sprinter will stay unknown if he don't work.

So for beginners in audio or anything else , it's important to focus on training. I don't believe that people are equally talented but I strongly believe that nobody should give up before trying.


I also agree it can be trained, but was not focusing on the training aspect of it, just the ability.

Anetode, I kind of agree with Marv's assessment, but I would like to hear your take on it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 08, 2015, 12:07:52 AM
'tode doesn't believe in plankton. But he does believe in altered states, i.e. Anax, CT, Ravi, and I enter trances were we actually do hear plankton, but this plankton is not generated by the Yggy.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: knerian on May 08, 2015, 12:10:31 AM
'tode doesn't believe in plankton. But he does believe in altered states, i.e. Anax, CT, Ravi, and I enter trances were we actually do hear plankton, but this plankton is not generated by the Yggy.

Have you described this plankton elsewhere, if not can you describe it here again?  I hear the word being thrown around but not sure what it is.

nevermind:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1856.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1856.0.html)
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,593.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,593.0.html)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: anetode on May 08, 2015, 02:28:03 AM
'tode doesn't believe in plankton. But he does believe in altered states, i.e. Anax, CT, Ravi, and I enter trances were we actually do hear plankton, but this plankton is not generated by the Yggy.

Actually I think plankton's a great term, I understand them as these minute musical/sound cues which often get swept away. It's tough to attribute what they are to any one effect, sometimes it can be a little extra ambience, or something in the very background in the recording, or a little of the nature of decay. As for trances, sure, certainly worked back in the tribal days. Thinking more like selective focus - in passive listening you may not notice what you do in critical listening and in each critical session you may be interested in a different aspect or influenced by a different mood.

I also agree it can be trained, but was not focusing on the training aspect of it, just the ability.

Anetode, I kind of agree with Marv's assessment, but I would like to hear your take on it.

I'll tackle the quotient question on another thread. Simplest way of putting it: aging, environmental damage and anatomical differences do not necessarily follow normal distribution.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: 7ryder on May 08, 2015, 05:04:27 PM
I'd like to hear more from people who have some of the better DACs to compare with. That's the best way - no doubts about what the brain is or isn't getting used to. And which amp/headphones are being used.
The first few days impressions were those of a "technical DAC". I'd suggest to ask your friend again around 110-120 hours. For me, and someone else too, that was when I got some of the first good signs of what was about to come. :)

It's 1:15am and I should be sleeping but am clearly not. Not sure what the problem could be...



Well, if by better, you mean more expensive, Yggy completely blows away [sorry, hyperbole sounding...but its true!] the Audio Research Reference DAC that I've been using since December, in fact I have it up for sale.  And, FWIW, I thought the Ref DAC was better than a Linn Klimax DS/1 that I had before that.  Over time, I couldn't listen to the KDS any longer as I found it too revealing and fatiguing with the rest of my system...so I thought I'd give tubes a try and picked up the Ref DAC on AG. I found the Ref DAC to be a more enjoyable listen, but after comparing it to Yggy, there is so much information missing from the Ref DAC that it was like putting a blanket over my speakers.  I will say, though, that even though I got rid of the KDS, it was/is still the imaging champ of the DACs I've owned...it felt like you could reach out and grab the vocalists.

So in my experience, Yggy is the better DAC. I only wish Schiit had released this damn thing years ago, I would have saved a shitload of money!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: joeexp on May 08, 2015, 06:08:51 PM
Keep it coming!  popcorn

Please more comparisons.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Chris F on May 08, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
There was a scheduled power outage in my building yesterday which ended the ~170 hour uptime of the Yggdrasil.  Upon returning home and taking a listen, it's FAR from terrible but I can confirm the magic does indeed go away if you turn it off for a couple hours.

I am re-taking notes as it does it's stabilization thing again; will post both sets of daily listening notes (original and after power off) after I feel that the sound is no longer changing.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 12, 2015, 08:48:05 PM
This DAC totally sucks. It's making me go through and listen to all my CDs again. Massive time suck, but oh so enjoyable!

Will have PWD v. Yggy impressions up either later tonight or early tomorrow depending if I can ever stop listening to the Yggy...
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: eddypoon on May 12, 2015, 11:05:50 PM
It's making me go through and listen to all my CDs again
so true to me too. same here.  Problem is some of mine are like 15-20 years old copies, and they begin to give read errors in outer tracks...........   .....

Looking forward to your follow up  comparison.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 13, 2015, 01:42:06 AM
Have you guys found that flipping the bits (running music through the Yggy) "warms it up" faster? I had power outage a few days ago, and I found Yggy up to speed with "magic" after 48 hours after leaving CDP on repeat.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Hands on May 13, 2015, 01:58:44 AM
Oh, wait, I thought you guys were running music through it already while you let it warmed up...something I've always done...
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: thegunner100 on May 13, 2015, 02:00:58 AM
Have you guys found that flipping the bits (running music through the Yggy) "warms it up" faster? I had power outage a few days ago, and I found Yggy up to speed with "magic" after 48 hours after leaving CDP on repeat.

Yeah, I've been running music through it non-stop. Especially when I had to go home for the weekend and leave it running at school. You've probably noticed that the Yggy is quite warmer when it has had music running through it for a while. When I turned off my PC last night, I woke up with a semi-warm Yggy.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: atomicbob on May 13, 2015, 04:42:04 AM
 Haven't had a serious period of time to perform the second set of measurements. probably going to wait for the high res oscilloscope to arrive before doing the next set. But as Anaxilus says, this DAC sucks ... you into periods of lost time. When this baby hits 188 hrs, you're going to hear some serious schiit!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: thegunner100 on May 13, 2015, 02:19:52 PM
Out of curiosity... has anyone tried any gaming with the Yggy? I'd love to give it a try once I'm done with my finals.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on May 13, 2015, 03:58:49 PM
.
has anyone tried any gaming with the Yggy?
.

i get the impression that Yggy can beat anyone, at anything, so probably better not to bother.


 :)p8
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Pat on May 13, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Going on two weeks through the ups and downs of break-in, but very well worth listening regardless! :P :P
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: drfindley on May 14, 2015, 09:09:12 AM
As I was demoing a bunch of headphones tonight, I discovered something rather surprising: the Yggy reveals this sort of tape hiss. At first i was wondering if it was some feedback or interference with my interconnects. As I played more tracks, there are some tracks that had it and some that didn't I thought it was an MP4/FLAC thing and so I compared the same song back to back and the hiss was there regardless. Then on some albums the hiss changes from song to song (see: Iron & Wine - Our Endless Numbered Days). I've determined the his is in the actual recording!

As someone who appreciates honestly hearing the recording, I actually enjoy this, but I was shocked to discover it. I think it has something to do with the mics used, the hiss of the tape or something. It's quite present on Miles Davis recordings or the White Stripes.

To give you an idea of how this changes from track to track on the same record, compare the two songs below. Even with the compression YouTube gives us, the difference is quite start to my ears. (Drive has it, Nightswimming doesn't once the piano cuts in)

R.E.M. - Drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK8HWMrAEUg

R.E.M. - Nightswimming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krTVtOqddi4
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: AustinValentine on May 14, 2015, 12:41:38 PM
Check out some Cat Stevens. The MFSL recording of "Father & Son" off Tea for the Tillerman has a hiss that gets more audible after 20-25 seconds.

I'd imagine an HD800 + Yggy + [Insert Ultra Revealing Amp Here] would make old Sam Cooke albums borderline unlistenable. "Why is Sam Cooke recording in a snowstorm?"

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: chetlanin on May 14, 2015, 11:58:53 PM
Soon someone will claim that to reach the exact optimal internal temperature this device has has to be kept in a room at 26.4  degrees Celsius for  2 weeks plus 11 hours after being switched on...

Anyway, I understand - by reading selected messages of this thread- that YES! we have arrived!

To be able to get sound quality on par with good old LP sound we had to wait 40 years after the introduction of the CD. In the meantime billions of music lovers have unfortunately been forced to listen to something inferior. Just temporarily of course, but what can one say? ( except "sorry", that is).  Now we also can see how the audiophiles of the world have been fooled time after time by hundreds of similar devices that during this time-span have been deemed by reviewers as "fabulous tools to rediscover your CD collection" , "analogue-sounding digital at last!" etc, etc.

But now at last!! At last a device has been given to mankind that can reveal the soul of music (and the plankton of it), in a way that brings tears to the eyes of even the most hardboiled of audiophiles. It weighs a ton, costs thousands, and needs a couple of weeks to warm up. (It does not even have a headphone jack, not to speak of any optical disk reader, but these last things would  be the complaints of only the most simpleminded of the simpleminded, needless sto say).
 
Gentlemen pirates! (and Muppetface): I must protest! I claim that we have ended up in one of those grandiose blind alleys that mankind has found itself in several times  through history. (Airships, weapoens too good for actual use, etc, etc). We must return to equipment that speaks to the ordinary music lover!

The inventors of the CD must be rotating in their graves (if they are dead, that is).

Other than that, I wonder if plankton does not rather feed on hiss and dist, and if there were not more cheap and obvious ways to produce those things (and in the right amounts).

 Olaf
From the homeland of the real Yggdrasil



p.s.
(I want one, I am only human)

p.s.II
those  photos in on the early pages showed too little skin texture (I could not sense any plankton, so to speak) and the horrible red cast also reminded me of cheap porno from the early years of the internet ( but back then we knew not any better, of course).
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: kevin on May 15, 2015, 12:43:49 PM
What kind of sound does a snowstorm make?

Just curious.  :-Z
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: AustinValentine on May 15, 2015, 01:06:26 PM
What kind of sound does a snowstorm make?

Just curious.  :-Z

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u153b2MO5Lg
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Pat on May 15, 2015, 04:27:36 PM
Yggy Dac detects purring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxNgd-mdl1A
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on May 15, 2015, 04:58:38 PM
What kind of sound does a snowstorm make?

Just curious.  :-Z

The sound of snow (assuming it isn't a blizzard) is the most amazing thing about it: silence.

I'm happy to be here in my tropical climate, but that thought sends me into a reverie.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: AZ on May 16, 2015, 12:17:44 AM
Ok. will add my 2 cents regarding the way I hear Yggy's magic.
   To put it simple imagine hearing the singer, how sound coming out of his/her mouth can be heard as particles of air. Sometimes those particles can be smaller or bigger, more or less grainy, sparkling or dull, colorful or matte. With Yggdrasil as opposed to all of the above you actually hear air; absolutely smooth, clean, properly weighted and distributed, palpable and I don't know how else to describe it but this makes you feel everything sounds simply natural or how many already noted analogue.
    With this kind of naturalness and honesty of sound presentation you can probably imagine this thing is extremely revealing about the true nature of your headphones. This may be something one has to think about real hard as nothing is going to be masked for your listening pleasures. 
   If you can handle honesty then you will love this thing, I sure do. Congratulations team Schiit! 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Pat on May 16, 2015, 10:10:53 PM
I'll add to the fact the Yggy Dac is absolutely quiet, with very dense images in their own sound space, which allows previously crowded and or congested passages sorted out and intelligible.

Yggy also scales and presents huge dynamic contrasts while maintaining a completeness and flowing presentation like a well set up T.T.

I never thought this was possible with digital, but here it is.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: The Alchemist on May 17, 2015, 01:25:32 AM
Being that the Yggdrasil is a 21-bit DAC, can it still play true 24-bit recordings?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Marvey on May 17, 2015, 02:59:15 AM
Being that the Yggdrasil is a 21-bit DAC, can it still play true 24-bit recordings?

Yes because true 24-bit recordings are probably true 18-19 bit depending upon quality of A to D conversion.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: 7ryder on May 17, 2015, 11:41:35 PM
I'll add to the fact the Yggy Dac is absolutely quiet

Yes, I agree whole hardheartedly.  I have put my ear very close to my Yggy and it makes no noise of it's own.  :)p13
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 19, 2015, 12:55:51 AM
G'dammit. I powered on my rig to compare Yggy to my PWD but I can't stop listening to it. This is freaking ridiculous.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: Ringingears on May 19, 2015, 01:03:32 AM
Had the same problem at the last two meets. You know, "just one more, and then I'll  stop"  headbang
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review/Impressions thread (production)
Post by: atomicbob on May 19, 2015, 04:20:00 PM
G'dammit. I powered on my rig to compare Yggy to my PWD but I can't stop listening to it. This is freaking ridiculous.
Same problem with Yggdrasil vs. my Vega. Body Acoustic 52nd St is mesmerizing via the former.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on May 19, 2015, 07:25:45 PM
Giggity giggity goo!

(http://media-cache-ak2.pinimg.com/736x/b2/fb/cf/b2fbcf0ec2f7fa85ebf323a014772952.jpg)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: bixby on May 23, 2015, 11:10:43 PM
I had an opportunity to hear the Yggy today at a friends.  Heard it being fed by a Hydra Z spdif converter and also via direct USB.  Only had 160 hours on it so I am sure it is not fully burned in.  Yes, I believe in burn in with lots of equipment.

Also heard the Rowland Aerius fronted by same Hydra Z for a comparison.  Differnent signatures for sure.  I am impressed with what I heard out of the Yggy especially USB direct.  Makes me even more itchy to try the Gungnir Uber 2 from my X-sabre.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on May 24, 2015, 02:17:22 AM
It's been on for 67 hours (no I am not paranoid) and your "humble" 16/44 music is effing fantastic. I know this has been several times but the actual experience is a revelation of sorts.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Chris F on June 04, 2015, 01:37:32 AM
The detail retrieval is ridiculous.  I listen to stuff work with IEMs from my phone; play it at home and suddenly there is all this "stuff" I missed when I heard it last....
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: cizx on June 04, 2015, 10:26:09 PM
The detail retrieval is ridiculous.  I listen to stuff work with IEMs from my phone; play it at home and suddenly there is all this "stuff" I missed when I heard it last....

I got mine today, and I've already been surprised by details I never noticed before a couple of times. I MIGHT actually keep this thing longer than my typical month and a half.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on June 05, 2015, 08:36:05 AM
Cizx, its 1.33 months for you, not 1.5 :). Anyway, I now have to actually reduce the volume level on my amp (not by much though) from about a week ago for my usual listening comfort. Thought that was interesting.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: amalgamist on June 05, 2015, 10:18:38 PM
Looking to feed another balanced amp from the Yggy, would a XLR Y cable be ok to use ? Or would that perhaps degrade the sound quality at all ?

If so, what would be the best method besides having to swap the cables over each time ?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Maxx134 on June 07, 2015, 05:40:29 PM
I dont believe there would be any degraded signal.

The output seems strong enough.

Also I believe that the yggy may have even me more awsome if they implemented a tube output stage instead of a solid state one

The only issue I see is that although we can achieve ideally a bit more imaging,
tubes have a habit of adding a euphoric attribute to the music..

It is this atrribute, or quality, that I believe the sole reason why one may be attracted away from a yggy, which I see as the most accurate dac .

I found such perspectives from hearing the yggy against the Lapizator4 .
The yggy produce accurate source bottom hiss from a recording,
where the Lampy did not,
The Lampy had a larger dynamic range, and mids "poped" out from space, which I attribute to the usage of tubes.
The yggy had a more accurate rendition of audiance clapping,
and had a wider soundstage,
but the previously stated atrributes of the Lampy(4), made it seem deeper staging in the mids, where vocals "floated" in their space...
This lead to a more musical performance on that specific track..
So I could imagine a yggy with a tube stage would be killer,
BUT again, the problem is accuracy & linear  performance of a given tube is like opening a pandora's box of issues..

Anyways,
My personal situation , is that my yggy did not achieve immortall/magic status till well into second week and that was with it being fed nonstop with music...
Then suddenly all music sounds like "being there"  and the unit seems unstoppable with whichever music player I tried
Previously, before this period of time, the yggy gave me random clicks when changing music,
which I attributed to my mini laptop lack of memory,
so when I finnally decide to change the laptop OS to linux,
suddenly the system as a whole performs flawless.

Do to how my yggy sounds now,
I believe the yggy/Lampy comparison was a bit flawed,
as I believe my yggy is performing at a higher level than that other yggy.

So I am of the camp that believe you need just over two weeks for  maximum yggy majic..
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on June 07, 2015, 06:20:28 PM
The Lampy had a larger dynamic range, and mids "poped" out from space, which I attribute to the usage of tubes.

This ^! This is the only flaw I've found with the Yggy thus far. A sense of greyness to the back ground that hampers just as you say. Proper tubes offer unprecedented clarity, blackness of background, and depth all which contribute to increased perceptions of resolution and dynamics.

I noticed this comparing the Yggy to my PWD mk1>2 which already was an average to just above average performer with blackness compared to the best DACs out there. The PWD mk1>2 was a little blacker.

That's not to say the Yggy isn't clear, it's astonishingly clear and accurate. It's really two different phenomena. The first is the digital section where anything that isn't part of the recording just melts away and disappears. You have to hear it to believe it. In that sense, every DAC up to this point has clearly been coloring music and people are just used to it. There's simply no way to get around this fact. Anyone that has had a proper superior vinyl experience will understand this. Plus the way images are just locked in and super sharp yet perfectly organic speaks volumes about this DAC. The second phenomenon I believe to be part of the analog output stage. MArv and I have noticed and commented on this sort of greyness before as a Mosfet mist. In this case, Jfets. BJTs have often sounded clearer and blacker IME, but it seems they would be much more difficult to work with in this application and at this price point.

Believe me, you aren't the first to talk about developing a tube output stage for the Yggy.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on June 07, 2015, 06:32:13 PM
Updated my OP (post 2) with a few criticisms. All I can find atm.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: bixby on June 07, 2015, 10:31:21 PM
euphoric

  Do you mean euphonic?  While occasionally listening to music I can be intensely happy, I find it is not usually related to tubes.

I got another chance to listen to the Schiit, Rowland, Hydra Z bridge and my lowly Matrix again in my friends system.  This time the Schiit had a few more weeks burn in.  What a difference.  I really liked it and again without the Hydra Z and beefy matched power supply.  The Hydra Z is not a good match for the Yggy.

The pricey Rowland to me was different from the Schiit but not better, IMHO.  Kinda like going to a gourmet ice cream shop and having to say which is best:  the Mocha flavor or the Cappuccino?

My Matrix showed its shortcomings quite easily, soft less extended bass, less attack on the upper notes, a bit of softness in presentation of dynamics, and a bit of less extended and slightly crispy upper highs.  What it did do very well is the spatial presentation. 

Does anyone think Schtiit might add the Yggys usb section to the Gungnir anytime soon, and would it get the Gungnir a lot closer to the Yggy in sound or is there still a bit of a gulf?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Pat on June 08, 2015, 12:30:58 AM
I may be running a different setup than some, my Yggdrasil is fronted by a CEC transport and followed by a TRL 6SN7 preamp.

Having some tubes in the chain (I prefer the preamp) gives me the desired big-tone with clarity, my images in the midrange do have jump factor and size, very close, if not equal to vinyl.

A friend of mine with a Walker T.T./Manley Steelhead/Soundsmith Hyperion Cart stopped by for a listen and commented on this very subject, we compare each others sound before listening session engages.

Now, that being said, there IS some circumstances where my friend plays a VERY well recorded album  and it does kick real ass dynamics, but on 95% of his LPs there is no audible superiority, it just sounds neutral and real, like the Yggy Dac does.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on June 08, 2015, 01:08:56 AM
Uh...a tube in the chain doesn't add the kind of clarity I'm talking about. They are supposed to get out of the way like on my parallel 2A3 amp with space tube drivers. All tube clarity does is let you hear a component upstream of it that isn't as clear. You can not 'add' clarity to system if it doesn't already have it. Maybe your tube preamp is just more clear than the SS preamp you used to use? Personally I find adding stuff to a chain mucks up the sound about 98% of the time so I avoid things like pre-amps if I can manage it.

Your example of a well recorded LP is what people should be talking about for reference. Not poorly built or set up rigs with LPs that sound like they were cut from the same digital master you'd find on the CD or just a bad old master from 60 years ago. So my goal is to try to get digital as close to that as possible.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: cizx on June 08, 2015, 03:09:31 AM
Come on. Next thing, Anax, you're going to say that converting mp3s to flac doesn't increase their sound quality when everyone KNOWS flac (stored on SSDs) sounds best...

Back on topic, should I be running pink noise through my Yggdrasil when I'm not listening to music to keep it going, or is just having it plugged into my USB port enough?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Pat on June 08, 2015, 03:49:45 PM
"Personally I find adding stuff to a chain mucks up the sound about 98% of the time so I avoid things like pre-amps if I can manage it."

In some systems no preamp may be a good fit, but in mine I'll never dispense of a good active tube line-stage for the reason of sheer gestalt and authority of the presentation, if there's a little noise or coloration I could care less.

As usual, everyone's mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: bixby on June 08, 2015, 10:00:19 PM
"Personally I find adding stuff to a chain mucks up the sound about 98% of the time so I avoid things like pre-amps if I can manage it."

In some systems no preamp may be a good fit, but in mine I'll never dispense of a good active tube line-stage for the reason of sheer gestalt and authority of the presentation, if there's a little noise or coloration I could not care less.

As usual, everyone's mileage may vary.

edit from zerodeefex: s/could care less/could not care less

My system with preamp on the left and without it on the right:
(https://beyourownmotivation.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/skinny-fat-two.jpg)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on June 09, 2015, 06:50:43 AM
I have been noticing something of late with the Yggy. If I change the music fairly rapidly especially with different bit rates, the Yggy stops playing. I use Amarra 3.0 and the laptop shows the music playing but there is no sound. Anybody else have this happen to 'em? if so, any thoughts on what could be going on? Thanks.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on June 09, 2015, 07:00:18 AM
You need a new GF/amp. Stop cheating on her.

My EC/Yggy rig on the left. Pretty much every Preamp I've ever heard on the right.

(http://assets-s3.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/81305-charlize-theron-sean-penn-secretly-engaged-details/1419975983_charlize-theron-and-sean-penn-zoom.jpg)

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on June 09, 2015, 09:52:21 AM
Yet another belated discovery on my part. Yggy to BH Crack (Speedball) to HD 600 (got it yesterday). Holy cow. Where is that bass coming from?  Yes, I hear the treble but I guess my hearing abilities prevent me from seeing it as a nuisance.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Clemmaster on June 09, 2015, 11:03:25 AM
Mike, are u saying your EC/Yggy lacks boobs and masks microdetail with makeup?
Or is it the "whore" part we should relate to?

(Bear with me, it's so hot in Burbank... At 4AM  walk the plank2)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Maxx134 on June 09, 2015, 01:47:27 PM
This ^! ...

Believe me, you aren't the first to talk about developing a tube output stage for the Yggy.
Also, besides attempting that,
I am wondering if there is a "test point" between these stages,
And if there is enough signal amplitude to bypass that line-out stage..
;)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Pat on June 12, 2015, 12:35:40 AM
Mr. Hankey and some Schiit
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Maxx134 on June 15, 2015, 03:41:20 AM

... The second phenomenon I believe to be part of the analog output stage. MArv and I have noticed and commented on this sort of greyness before as a Mosfet mist. In this case, Jfets. BJTs have often sounded clearer and blacker IME, but it seems they would be much more difficult to work with in this application and at this price point.

Believe me, you aren't the first to talk about developing a tube output stage for the Yggy.

The yggy is.said to have a "transparent buffer" stage, and its dac output is such that is needs no amplification...

So I assume a tube buffer stage would have been superior to the Jfet buffer stage..

Also, I assume this "buffer" stage must be well controlled in the yggy, but also, being SS,
Is still alot cheaper, reliable and more cost effective than other solutions...

I am tending to like a passive component solution which is whole lot easier, but also much more expensive,
That in implementing instead large  Quality coupling capacitors for the outputs...
;)
I think Im turning into a cap head.
They made huge improments to my projects (amp).
Using different types and learning how to choose in right place for sonic benifits was fun.


Updated my OP (post 2) with a few criticisms. All I can find atm.
Nooo, I dont wanna be a "bad guy"!
Lol
 :boom:
I forgot to mention that the Lampy4 more "euphoric" closer mids, although very enjoyable,
clearly was a not the truth of the recording,
because the audience applause was not as focused as it was on the yggy, which placed the singer a bit further into the stage.
The sonic image seemed just as real on the Lampy(being a bit closer),
But you could still tell the yggy was the more sonically accurate.

 Overall playback the song dynamics was a bit more expanded on the Lampy, like using a expansion device, (like "DBX" if anyone recalls that).
So I would say the "voicing" of that dac was not true to the source, yet, again, it was very highly musically involving,
Which is the main reason why anyone would chose another dac instead of yggy.
I personally would normally rather choose a more truthfull dac over a more euphoric dac, 
if they both had same level of detailing,
I could always add that euphoric sense down the line in my amp,
 with a swap of more romantic tubes...


 :)p8
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: lm4der on June 15, 2015, 03:37:28 PM
So am I correct in interpreting all of this Ygg talk to mean that Schiit has developed a real game-changer with the Ygg? It seems like this Ygg does things that really no other DACs do as well, and for a fraction of the cost of other ToTL DACS? Pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on June 15, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
I've listened to all of 3 DACs in my life; so caveat emptor. The Yggy has breathed new life as it were to the CD rips that sounded anemic to pathetic hitherto. I was listening to Clapton's Behind the Sun CD yesterday. Just magic in terms of details I never heard with the Gungnir.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Wino on June 16, 2015, 02:55:37 AM
So am I correct in interpreting all of this Ygg talk to mean that Schiit has developed a real game-changer with the Ygg? It seems like this Ygg does things that really no other DACs do as well, and for a fraction of the cost of other ToTL DACS? Pretty amazing.

Yes… this is absolutely true if you are smoking crack & drinking Koolaide at the same time !!!

Get real… try it yourself… all else is BS…

David
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: lm4der on June 16, 2015, 04:54:41 AM
this is absolutely true if you are smoking crack & drinking Koolaide at the same time !!!

It's like you've known me all my life.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: IceUul on June 19, 2015, 06:36:09 AM
I am planning to buy Yggy too, just have one big problem with it: 1 week heat up time!
Since i am always moving around, different homes, meets etc. I cannot wait 1 week in every place for this unit goes to perfect temperature.

Also i have no idea how hifi power circuits work, but just idea to use UPS or Car voltage changer (12v -> 110/220v) can keep it heated enough? Or it
will affect sound quality so bad that just no point of using this solution? I understand if you turn it off for a few minutes it will not affect quality, but for few
hours it will cool down and you need to start over.

So how this would work to travel with Yggy?: At home using wall socket, then plug it fast inside the UPS, then plug it inside the Car changer, later do vice versa?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: MisterRogers on June 19, 2015, 02:58:28 PM
A quality UPS (full sine wave) will work just fine for transporting it around.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on June 19, 2015, 03:04:54 PM
I am planning to buy Yggy too, just have one big problem with it: 1 week heat up time!
Since i am always moving around, different homes, meets etc. I cannot wait 1 week in every place for this unit goes to perfect temperature.

Also i have no idea how hifi power circuits work, but just idea to use UPS or Car voltage changer (12v -> 110/220v) can keep it heated enough? Or it
will affect sound quality so bad that just no point of using this solution? I understand if you turn it off for a few minutes it will not affect quality, but for few
hours it will cool down and you need to start over.

So how this would work to travel with Yggy?: At home using wall socket, then plug it fast inside the UPS, then plug it inside the Car changer, later do vice versa?

A smaller DAC might be good for travelling. Just wait.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Skank on June 19, 2015, 04:58:40 PM

Compared to my Anedio D2 the Ygg is so nice to listen to - the passages that made me cringe no longer do. It's not that the musical info is missing it's just that I'm able to open my ears and listen to it. No fear.


I found the D2 a little thin sounding when I auditioned it - especially via usb.

I'll admit that at that time my system was too far at the other extreme (thick and syrupy). 

How's does the yggy compare to the D2 in that regard?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: blubliss on June 19, 2015, 09:31:20 PM
Just got offered a black one, which fits better with my other stuff.  Shipped right away.

It will go up against an APL NWO-M and an Audio Note 4.1 which I just recently re-acquired (had sold to a friend) and will probably sell again.  Maybe you should hear it first Marv? 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: johnjen on June 19, 2015, 11:24:23 PM
A smaller DAC might be good for travelling. Just wait.

[Redacted] lives…

JJ  popcorn
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: JoelT on June 19, 2015, 11:56:32 PM
So how this would work to travel with Yggy?: At home using wall socket, then plug it fast inside the UPS, then plug it inside the Car changer, later do vice versa?

You have the right idea...It's honestly not a big deal. Some folks opt to plug directly in to an inverter plugged in to their car. Personally, I use a battery pack with a 12v DC out, which I plug an inverter into - that way there is no cool down between unplugging, packing and bringing it out to my car. I just turn off Yggy, unplug, replug and power back up. I then pack up the unit and set the battery pack & inverter on top of the packing material in the box. The battery pack powers the DAC for the entire car ride; I never switch over to an inverter in the car. Once I arrive, I can walk in to the meet, set the box down, and not have to worry about immediately finding power for the DAC, etc. I've done 2 meets with this setup and it works well. I repeat the process for the drive home so I don't have to go through the warm up period again.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: jexby on June 20, 2015, 12:13:30 AM
My Yggy order placed after the first wave shipped today.
So Schiit backlog is starting to improve perhaps.
(Let's hear the fiber jokes. Not.)

No, it will not be burned in nor powered for 800 hours on car battery in time to attend the Denver meet.
 *:p
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kevin on June 20, 2015, 10:50:46 PM
I'll admit that at that time my system was too far at the other extreme (thick and syrupy). 

How's does the yggy compare to the D2 in that regard?

The D2 does sound thin to me. The YGGY doesn't have that problem at all.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: masterlogic on June 28, 2015, 08:18:48 PM
Has any else modded their Yggdrasil? Check out
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Schiit_mod.html

I'm not sure which thread is best for this question.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on June 28, 2015, 08:26:47 PM
That's not modding. That's applying dubious tweaks and re-casing.


But on the topic of tweaks, I have special material called Quantum Feces that you can smear all or the chassis of the Yggy and a Mickey Mouse sticker you can put on the top of the SHARC processor. Makes it sound better. I would be happy to send anyone a bag of the Quantum Feces and the Mickey Mouse sticker as long as they paid for shipping.


BTW and FWIW, a few of us are looking into redoing the output buffer. Won't say that we can do much better, but maybe different and a little bit better. More on this topic when I post about Yggy vs. EAR DAC in the meet impressions thread later today.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Armaegis on June 28, 2015, 08:34:36 PM
Has any else modded their Yggdrasil? Check out
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Schiit_mod.html

I'm not sure which thread is best for this question.

Shorting unused inputs? Sure.

Taking half the balanced outputs for single ended use? I suppose that's ok.

Remove the chassis? I guess that couldn't hurt if you're careful...

Bypass the fuse? You're removing a safety, but ok...

Bypass the power switch? Seems silly but if you insist

Remove LEDs? um were you worried about led noise or something?

Damp the heatsinks? Now you're getting silly

Quantum chips... aaaaand we're done now. Don't forget to absorb the blackbody radiation on your way out. Kthxbye!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: OJneg on June 28, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
It would be better to take Pins 2 and 3. Most XLR-RCA cables do this already.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: dglow on June 28, 2015, 09:17:47 PM
... or,  just skip the mods and get yourself a balanced amp!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on June 28, 2015, 09:33:04 PM
Taking half the balanced outputs for single ended use? I suppose that's ok.

It would be better to take Pins 2 and 3. Most XLR-RCA cables do this already.

Bad idea with Yggy. Not going to explain it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: aive on June 29, 2015, 03:28:07 AM
Jesus thought I was on headfi for a second.... Those mods are fkn retarded...
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: drfindley on June 29, 2015, 07:27:49 AM
BTW and FWIW, a few of us are looking into redoing the output buffer. Won't say that we can do much better, but maybe different and a little bit better. More on this topic when I post about Yggy vs. EAR DAC in the meet impressions thread later today.
Count me in. I love my Yggy, but an upgraded output buffer would put it over the edge.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Priidik on June 29, 2015, 10:55:47 AM
BTW and FWIW, a few of us are looking into redoing the output buffer. Won't say that we can do much better, but maybe different and a little bit better. More on this topic when I post about Yggy vs. EAR DAC in the meet impressions thread later today.

This is crazy, and exiting.
Are the output buffers on a separate board? Can't quite make it out from the low res pictures.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: shaizada on June 29, 2015, 06:17:02 PM
If the Yggy can get a high quality, non-bandwidth limited, transformer coupled tubed output stage, it might be one of the best things since sliced bread!  I'd like to listen to that, fall head over heals and order one then!  At the moment, unfortunately, despite a better digital section in the Yggy, as a complete package (Digital PLUS Analog), I am not bowled over yet.  Of course, the kind of transformer that is used can make a massive difference so must be vetted out properly for the output stage usage.

Unfortunately, coming from a a deep analog world and mindset (multiple turntables, cartridges, phono preamps) limits my DAC selections and what I like to hear sonically.  For example, I have yet to hear ANY Dac that surpasses the sound of a Dynavector XV-1S MC cartridge.  I feel we are getting closer, but the total package (digital plus analog sections) just isn't there yet.  Regardless, glad to be part of the journey :)  It's not ALWAYS about the destination.  :wheel:   
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on June 29, 2015, 07:27:09 PM
Sooo. how'd you guys feel about a tubed transformer coupled Yggy about twice the height with an external box for tube PS? Gets ridiculous. The ultimate would be DHTs. EC Mervizator Big 13". Hahahahahaha. $8999. No... $16789.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Ringingears on June 29, 2015, 07:34:57 PM
No....$189,000. Seems appropriate after this weekend.  ;)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on June 29, 2015, 08:18:15 PM
Sooo. how'd you guys feel about a tubed transformer coupled Yggy about twice the height with an external box for tube PS? Gets ridiculous. The ultimate would be DHTs. EC Mervizator Big 13". Hahahahahaha. $8999. No... $16789.

How soon can it ship?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: ultrabike on June 29, 2015, 08:26:53 PM
No....$189,000. Seems appropriate after this weekend.  ;)

Depends on the weight and the chasis. Is each component in it's own cozy compartment? Is it shinny? Can 10 men lift it?

If it fits in my house, then no, it's not worth $189K.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: drfindley on June 29, 2015, 10:03:40 PM
No....$189,000. Seems appropriate after this weekend.  ;)
And for that price, I'd expect more bass. If money can't buy bass, what's the point?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Ringingears on June 30, 2015, 12:12:57 AM
And for that price, I'd expect more bass. If money can't buy bass, what's the point?

I'd expect sub-sub bass. Down to 10 Hz. Enough to make ones rib cage to rattle due to resonance.  headbang
In fact it should make the person across the room feel the bass!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on June 30, 2015, 12:20:12 AM
I'd expect sub-sub bass. Down to 10 Hz. Enough to make ones rib cage to rattle due to resonance.  headbang
In fact it should make the person across the room feel the bass!

At least have the common courtesy to give ya a reach around!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Armaegis on June 30, 2015, 12:59:12 AM
That's why there's an external PS. It'll work 'ya both above and below the desk.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Pat on June 30, 2015, 11:13:58 PM
It's nice to dream, but hey, we've only had the Dac for a month or so?

We should enjoy it for a while, instead of stripping it down, after all, the Yggy's already a giant killer in stock form, right?

I bet Mike and Jason would P.T. us and have our asses sucking buttermilk!








Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on June 30, 2015, 11:23:56 PM
Don't worry. Nothing is happening.

There are about 50 different ways to skin the cat in terms of "improving" Yggy. All have different cost points, risks to development (esp. high quality transformers), risks to reliability, differences in sound, ease (tube diff amp + caps would be easiest, and might even be better than FET), which platform to use = eventual size - not sure if people would want a DAC the size of a small fridge (and if Anax wants one, he's on his own.) In then end, it might not sound much better.

I could make EC Marvizator 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 10 and make you fuckers pay for all of it along the way. But I'm not.

The problem is audiophilia. Once you hear something better, even it is in one or two aspects.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Pat on June 30, 2015, 11:31:48 PM
I know what you mean, but the uphill climb in Digital has been miniscule till now, so I guess with my 6SN7 preamp up front I'm pretty damn satisfied!

Hey Marv, I used to have a Lampy Dac, are you possibly related?   :))
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: thune on July 02, 2015, 07:16:24 AM
Bypass the output stage, could that be the first step?  Maybe what feeds the output stage has some non-negligible dc-offset and has an output impedance that can't drive standard interfaces respectably. However, if it can drive a jfet, it can probably drive a foot of wire and a tube grid OK (possibly cap coupled and/or cascoded). It would be hilarious (and awesome) if yggy had a terminal block on the back labeled "RTFM DIY".
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on July 02, 2015, 07:02:45 PM
Bypass the output stage, could that be the first step?  Maybe what feeds the output stage has some non-negligible dc-offset and has an output impedance that can't drive standard interfaces respectably. However, if it can drive a jfet, it can probably drive a foot of wire and a tube grid OK (possibly cap coupled and/or cascoded). It would be hilarious (and awesome) if yggy had a terminal block on the back labeled "RTFM DIY".

If Yggy had a terminal block with direct access to the chip pins, boom! Near $400 worth of chips cracked and smoking with smell of burnt plastic in the air. Schiit would get idiots returning their Yggys: "I dunno, I swear, I didn't do anything!" Random Head-Fi'ers would be recounting their experiences of using quantum purifier ding-dongs and how they improved the sound quality by 327% when in fact they simply increased distortion to 5%. The horror. The horror.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: sfoclt on July 02, 2015, 07:12:15 PM
I've had good experiences with the quantum purifier ding-dong.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: madaboutaudio on July 02, 2015, 07:31:57 PM
Not sure about the quantum ding dong but some over headfi and computeraudiophile have reported noise floor improvements with application of 3m AB5100s emi absorber on top of Semiconductors chips
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: cizx on July 06, 2015, 04:36:00 PM
A quality UPS (full sine wave) will work just fine for transporting it around.

what VA rating on a pure sine wave UPS would be sufficient for Yggdrasil & an amp (rag or bw)?
I'm looking at the CyberPower line: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: MisterRogers on July 06, 2015, 04:54:26 PM
I'm using this model with my Yggy, and it seems to be working well. I plan to test out the backup duration this week; if that's adequate for my needs I'll count it a good purchase.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Armaegis on July 06, 2015, 05:01:18 PM
I've had good experiences with the quantum purifier ding-dong.

I googled quantum dildo. I don't know what I was expecting, but this video was certainly not it...
https://vimeo.com/5088097
(SFW... a rather lame WTF actually)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: cizx on July 06, 2015, 05:34:11 PM
I'm using this model with my Yggy, and it seems to be working well. I plan to test out the backup duration this week; if that's adequate for my needs I'll count it a good purchase.

Yeah, I'm sure 1500VA is adequate.. but I don't want to spend that much if I can get away with 1000 or 850.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: IceUul on July 08, 2015, 12:44:56 PM
I got my Yggy today also, i was not eager to wait for new patch, so i bought used one (230v first patch unit from USA).

First impressions after turned it on!
With Apex Pinnacle and HD800 it is by far best DAC i have heard in my life. I guess for this price it is best buy! Even not warmed up it sounds so good... i guess now i start one week warm-up period and see how it sound a week later.

I am not sure how much the previous owner's one month 24/7 burn-in period affected the sound but it is definitely good sounding DAC, even not warmed up.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: NeedleToGroove on July 17, 2015, 10:19:33 PM
After reading through this thread and others, I've put in my Yggdrasil order.

In the process of reading up on the Yggdrasil, I found one bit of information that might be interesting to folks asking earlier in this thread (or was it another one?) about using the RCA outputs rather than XLR.

In a list of Yggdrasil tweaks (http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Schiit_mod.html) I saw the comment

Quote (selected)
If you are using the coax (single ended rca's) outputs then you need to take the single ended signal from the xlr connectors for much better sound.  There is a summing circuit after the balanced circuits that is not super transparent.  This mod eliminates this circuit.  You can get or make adapters to use (you use just pins 1 and 2 and you leave 3 unterminated....important!).  Another way would be to put xlrs on your cables that use just pins 1 and 2.  Another even more transparent way is to harwired (more on this later).  This mod will make the DAC way more transparent and clear.....mucho better.

I was intrigued, so I asked Schiit if that was wise/possibly a good idea. They replied

Quote (selected)
It would be fine to use the XLR to RCA cable to bypass the summing circuit. Make sure the cable you use does NOT short the out of phase (Pin 3) to ground (pin 1). It does bypass additional circuitry which is generally a good idea.

Cool. So I asked Pete at Triode Wire Labs if he could make me a pair of his interconnects in this configuration. Yep, he can (and I'm sure others could as well).

I hope this is useful and interesting to folks. It sounds like a good way to reduce any angst about having to use the RCA outputs on the Yggdrasil. I have no direct knowledge that it makes a difference (since I won't even get the DAC until August if Schiit is realistic about the timeframe on shipping.)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on July 17, 2015, 10:30:36 PM
don't forget to remove part of the chassis and put stickers on top of the caps and chips.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: maverickronin on July 17, 2015, 10:32:10 PM
Yeah, I'm sure 1500VA is adequate.. but I don't want to spend that much if I can get away with 1000 or 850.


The specs on their site says it only uses 35W so even if you make allowances for an abysmal power factor even the 850VA will be overkill.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: NeedleToGroove on July 17, 2015, 10:58:32 PM
don't forget to remove part of the chassis and put stickers on top of the caps and chips.

I was ignoring that part! I don't even know if a quantum sticker would be there if I'm not looking at it.

But Schiit seems to think the XLR to RCA idea has a basis in reality. I still have no idea how much difference it makes until I have my Yggdrasil and cables to compare.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on July 17, 2015, 11:02:58 PM
It might.


Will the use of only one chip (instead of two - per channel), but without the extra summing circuit outweigh the full use of two chips with the summing circuit (to SE input). I can already tell you that I prefer the balanced output via 600 ohm / 600 ohm transformers into a single ended input. The transformer sounds different than the FET summing circuit. Some things better. Some things worse. But in a way that I prefer.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: jexby on July 18, 2015, 12:03:03 AM
It might.


Will the use of only one chip (instead of two - per channel), but without the extra summing circuit outweigh the full use of two chips with the summing circuit (to SE input). I can already tell you that I prefer the balanced output via 600 ohm / 600 ohm transformers into a single ended input. The transformer sounds different than the FET summing circuit. Some things better. Some things worse. But in a way that I prefer.

Marv,
am confused about the 600ohm transformers pieces.   p:8
due to my wiring ignorance.

a few posts back in this thread you said:
====
Quote from: OJneg on June 28, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
It would be better to take Pins 2 and 3. Most XLR-RCA cables do this already.

Bad idea with Yggy. Not going to explain it.
====

so to (re)ask the obvious:
one should NOT use typical XLR to RCA cables if attempting this with Yggy?

and only try with those 600ohm transformers installed?

 :-Z
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on July 18, 2015, 02:08:11 AM
Basically XLR to XLR or phono to phono or XLR to phono via pro box with transformer. No explody anything.

I like to keep things simple and as designed.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on July 18, 2015, 02:14:12 AM
Mates,

facing a new situation with the Yggy...Until Wednesday everything was fine...I then upgraded my iTunes to the latest version (12.2.1.6 or something similar).... since then, the bit rate indicators on the Yggy will not light up AND no there is no sound. Have a couple of Macs (mini and MBA but both have the same iTunes version). Powered the Yggy off and on a few times but no dice. The normal clicking sound I hear when the Yggy gets the input signal is absent. I use Amarra and select the Yggy through the Preferences option... any body faced a similar situation?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on July 18, 2015, 02:19:10 AM
I've heard, "Apple just works." Must be you. :P

When's the last time you sacrificed a chicken to the Jobs shrine? Apart from that, I imagine there's a software war going on for control of your mac.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on July 18, 2015, 02:21:28 AM
Come on dude..I'm hurting here...having said that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and connect my Lenovo ...damn Apple did work for the longest time
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: NeedleToGroove on July 18, 2015, 03:03:16 AM
Basically XLR to XLR or phono to phono or XLR to phono via pro box with transformer. No explody anything.

I like to keep things simple and as designed.

When you write "phono" do you mean single-ended RCA connector? What is a "pro box with transformer"? What would be exploding in this scenario and why?

It's clear you know a lot more about this than I do, and I'm trying to understand the issues.

If there's a risk of something exploding, why would Schiit reply to my e-mail saying the XLR to RCA connection was reasonable? They didn't mention potential for anything to blow up.  :-0

Thank you.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Chris F on July 18, 2015, 03:22:32 AM
Mates,

facing a new situation with the Yggy...Until Wednesday everything was fine...I then upgraded my iTunes to the latest version (12.2.1.6 or something similar).... since then, the bit rate indicators on the Yggy will not light up AND no there is no sound. Have a couple of Macs (mini and MBA but both have the same iTunes version). Powered the Yggy off and on a few times but no dice. The normal clicking sound I hear when the Yggy gets the input signal is absent. I use Amarra and select the Yggy through the Preferences option... any body faced a similar situation?

Go into the sound control panel and make sure that the OS has not muted the device and/or twiddle with the software volume control if the app allows for that.

Similar problem happens to me in Audirvana when I use apple streaming; Audirvana releases control but somehow the device ends up muted and you have to twiddle the volume in iTunes to get it to unmute.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: OJneg on July 18, 2015, 06:03:28 AM
When you write "phono" do you mean single-ended RCA connector? What is a "pro box with transformer"? What would be exploding in this scenario and why?

It's clear you know a lot more about this than I do, and I'm trying to understand the issues.

If there's a risk of something exploding, why would Schiit reply to my e-mail saying the XLR to RCA connection was reasonable? They didn't mention potential for anything to blow up.  :-0

Thank you.


I'm curious too. Perhaps the + and - outputs aren't sitting at 0V exactly? I've been able to go balanced XLR to single-ended inputs on a lot of other gear. Although it does depend on the specifics of each connection scenario.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Armaegis on July 18, 2015, 07:05:48 AM
The latest itunes has all sorts of craptastic ulterior motives...
http://betanews.com/2015/07/05/itunes-could-corrupt-music-libraries-add-drm/
http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2015/07/warning-to-djs-do-not-upgrade-to-itunes-12-2/
I wonder if it's mucked up your library.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on July 18, 2015, 07:12:28 AM
itunes wiping your library? The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on July 18, 2015, 08:04:40 AM
Could actually be a problem with Yggy. Tried it with the optical input on his Linux music server.Same results, as in no indicator lights or sound.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Ringingears on July 19, 2015, 01:35:08 AM
itunes wiping your library? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Or how about putting two copies of each song on an album in your library. That was a cool update. The fix. Manually delete the songs.  How did this piece of crap make money?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Maxx134 on July 19, 2015, 03:20:50 AM
Could actually be a problem with Yggy. Tried it with the optical input on his Linux music server.Same results, as in no indicator lights or sound.
So your sayn the iTunes update killed your yggy?(!)
I would try another computer & not itunes to be sure
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on July 19, 2015, 08:36:30 AM
Maxx, I know my posts imply iTunes murdering the Yggy but I did not intend for that implication. I have no idea what to do but I've reached out to Nick at Schiit. Its expensive shipping an item like Yggy back and forth from India to CA but I may not have a choice.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: NeedleToGroove on July 19, 2015, 01:59:07 PM
Regarding the XLR Yggdrasil output to RCA singled-ended input cable question, Schiit has passed on more specific information to Pete at Triode Wire Labs who is very kindly making up the needed cables.

Yes, Schiit does recommend "matching the input impedance of your device input with the resistor."

Schiit even provided a circuit diagram which I apparently can't post because I'm too new here? Here's a link to the diagram instead; maybe someone who knows how to embed the image can post it if interested.

https://imgur.com/tU41PcH

All of the above is likely accomplishing the same purpose as the 600Ω transformer. I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on July 20, 2015, 03:50:48 AM
All of the above is likely accomplishing the same purpose as the 600Ω transformer.

No. It is not the same. This is what I am talking about.


(http://www.nu9n.com/images/1-1_Jensen.jpg)



Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on July 20, 2015, 12:09:18 PM
Closing out my Yggy issue, its back to working normally again as though nothing happened. All I did was disconnect power for 24 hours. Thanks to all who suggested trying out different things. One important takeaway is that my friend is building me a Linux-based music server. No more Mac mini's and MBAs for playing music.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Sorrodje on July 20, 2015, 01:29:08 PM
No need to build a linux based server.. daphile does it for you.. just throw it on a USB stick  and boot a Mini PC on the stick.. done.


http://www.daphile.com/ (http://www.daphile.com/)


Based on Squeezebox ecosystem, android/iphone apps.. gobs of plugin... gobs of settings if you need that.   ;)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on July 20, 2015, 02:43:59 PM
Merci beaucoup monsieur. Will look into it right away.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: IceUul on July 21, 2015, 06:43:01 AM
Merci beaucoup monsieur. Will look into it right away.
Or use raspberry pi 2 with linux based "volumio" and extrenal hard drive or Network share for music.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: DubiousMike on July 30, 2015, 05:54:05 PM
Anyone update to windows 10 yet?  If so, any issues with the yggy usb drivers?  I'm interested to try it out but would hate to break my rig in the process.

On a related topic, do any of you have strong feelings on the appropriate default windows sound output format when not using foobar, KS/wasapi etc.  I know some manufacturers will recommend, for example, setting advanced sound properties to 24 bit, 96khz.  Schiit doesn't mention this in the setup, so I've had mine at 16/44.1 with enhancements disabled.  Any thoughts here?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: zerodeefex on July 30, 2015, 06:23:57 PM
Or use raspberry pi 2 with linux based "volumio" and extrenal hard drive or Network share for music.

Volumio sucks. 10,000 file limit :(.

I moved to a dedicated NUC running daphile on my main system, Jriver/windows on my personal laptop and desktop, and audirvana at work.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: lm4der on July 30, 2015, 07:10:20 PM
On a related topic, do any of you have strong feelings on the appropriate default windows sound output format when not using foobar, KS/wasapi etc.  I know some manufacturers will recommend, for example, setting advanced sound properties to 24 bit, 96khz.  Schiit doesn't mention this in the setup, so I've had mine at 16/44.1 with enhancements disabled.  Any thoughts here?  Thanks!

My understanding is that you don't want to up sample the frequency, so if you are playing 44.1 source, you set it to 44.1. But for bitdepth, I think that the Windows audio mixer up samples to 24 bit depth, so it is good to put the control setting at 24 bit (as opposed to 16 bit, because it would then get downsampled)
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: madaboutaudio on July 30, 2015, 07:45:40 PM
Most pc sources(games/YouTube/dvd) are running on 16bit 48khz. Setting a higher bit depth won't hurt sound quality(even number bit truncation is lossless) but may require a tiny bit more cpu horsepower. I personally set to 32bit 48khz. Although floating point is not recommended for most dacs as it may result in accuracy errors.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Sorrodje on July 30, 2015, 08:37:33 PM
I moved to a dedicated NUC running daphile on my main system, Jriver/windows on my personal laptop and desktop, and audirvana at work.

Just moved definitely to Daphile as well.  Runs better than everything I tried before.  I installed it on an old machine: one of the first intel based mac mini. Some issues I encountered with my Laptop are now solved ( some glitches with dac, Ground loop .. ) . Works fluently and I can use my phone as a remote.  I use Qobuz for streaming as well but there's plugin for every other streaming provider I think.. Spotify , Deezer.. maybe not tidal yet but I don't know.

 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: DubiousMike on July 30, 2015, 10:25:40 PM
Thanks for the replies and info Imader and madaboutaudio!  On the windows 10 front, I think I'm going to go ahead and upgrade my laptop but not my main rig.  I'll test it out with the yggy and report back.

[Edit - as noted over in the Win 10 thread, happy to report Yggy is running just fine on Win 10 with the current drivers.  I have had a couple minor skips when the CPU was under heavy load, so I suppose this is a possible problem for gamers playing CPU intensive games.  New drivers have been announced by Schiit to be released in early August though.]
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Filbrik on August 14, 2015, 04:20:00 AM
It looks as if Yggy production is ramping up. I ordered mine on 7/31 with an expected delivery sometime in September, but I
just got a notice from Schiit today that it had shipped, and should be here Saturday, 8/15. Nice.  headbang

Of course, it could be due to cancellations.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: songmic on August 22, 2015, 03:28:49 AM
AFAIK, the Yggy's USB input module (Gen 3 USB) is not internally powered but powered via USB power from the computer, which can be dirty. Also, many people say that the USB module is Yggy's Achilles heel. Has anyone used a USB power cleaner/supply, such as Wyrd/iUSB/Regen/etc. with the Yggy and noticed some improvement?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: jexby on August 22, 2015, 03:32:57 AM
yes.
Using Uptone Audio Regen (Amber).
mainly due to a crappy old iMac 2009 that produces noise out of any USB port used.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: kothganesh on August 22, 2015, 04:12:27 AM
I use the Wyrd these days but have not done a serious comparison with and without it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: madaboutaudio on August 22, 2015, 05:03:39 AM
Just got my Yggdrasil recently, seriously fuck this guy:

Quote (selected)
The 3D presentation compared to the flat 2D presentation of the Yggdrasil

http://www.head-fi.org/t/553677/totaldac-dac/60#post_11598764

2D? 2D? I think he doesn't have earlobes or something. Yggdrasil is 3D.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on August 22, 2015, 05:28:20 AM
Just got my Yggdrasil recently, seriously fuck this guy:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/553677/totaldac-dac/60#post_11598764

2D? 2D? I think he doesn't have earlobes or something. Yggdrasil is 3D.

Copied over from the box.

Maxvla: uses planar headphones, complains of poor soundstage depth... um.. duh!

marvey: well, it very well could be. i just don't want to spend $10k on  DAC.

Anaxilus: The most resolving headphone he had at the time was a HE6. Pretty sure none of his phones were modded either. The review doesn't bother me. As much as I don't like poopooman for being a consistent douche, the review has a few legit points to it.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Hands on August 22, 2015, 02:50:13 PM
Will copy pasta from newest to oldest:

Hands: Maybe the other Boulder pyrates can chime in. They heard the Model S a bit there.

Hands: I prolly said this before in Marv's HF DAC thread, but that TotalDAC vs Yggy post actually matches a lot of thoughts I had w/ my non-oversampled Model S and Theta Gen Va. Brief listening at Boulder meet was similar. Oversampling often flattens the 3D nature of instruments and voices for me, but it does provide many other benefits. Namely the Yggy and Theta sounded very clear to me, where as NOS is probably always gonna be slightly softer, especially with redbook.

To clarify, neither Yggy or Theta were 2D sounding. This is all relative to my ears and one of the few reasons I go NOS even though it compromises some other areas (that I care less about, which other feel the opposite about). Yggy is damn fine.

OH and Yggy/Theta are wider sounding. Stage is smaller on NOS.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: schiit on August 22, 2015, 06:31:19 PM
Just got my Yggdrasil recently, seriously fuck this guy:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/553677/totaldac-dac/60#post_11598764

2D? 2D? I think he doesn't have earlobes or something. Yggdrasil is 3D.

I find the desperation to find something better--at any price--quite amusing.

I could also say, "Big surprise, someone skeptical about a product from the start finds that his results confirm his bias."

What I will say is: sit back, relax, and enjoy the music. Have a drink if that's your thing. And, if after enjoying some great music, and having that drink or two, the urge to spend car-like money on a DAC still remains, take a vacation and travel somewhere you've never been. Explore the world a little. Learn to fly a plane. Or surf. Or go to Bondurant and race. Learn to be a sommelier. Or just tour wine country. Or go get laid. Or smoke a doobie. Or any one of about ten thousand other things that are a lot more interesting than obsessing about the last 0.0035% of audio performance.

Heresy? Sure. Why not. Look at our name.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: 7ryder on August 22, 2015, 07:00:59 PM
I find the desperation to find something better--at any price--quite amusing.

I could also say, "Big surprise, someone skeptical about a product from the start finds that his results confirm his bias."

What I will say is: sit back, relax, and enjoy the music. Have a drink if that's your thing. And, if after enjoying some great music, and having that drink or two, the urge to spend car-like money on a DAC still remains, take a vacation and travel somewhere you've never been. Explore the world a little. Learn to fly a plane. Or surf. Or go to Bondurant and race. Learn to be a sommelier. Or just tour wine country. Or go get laid. Or smoke a doobie. Or any one of about ten thousand other things that are a lot more interesting than obsessing about the last 0.0035% of audio performance.

Heresy? Sure. Why not. Look at our name.

Great post Jason and, yeah, I was thinking the same thing - he expected Yggy to not be "all that" and expected the Total DAC to be fantastic, so I wasn't surprised by the outcome.

I am quite happy with my Yggy, even so, I am going to take your advice and tell wifey that instead of getting a new DAC I should just get laid.  Hopefully this strategy will have multiple positive outcomes.  :)p7

Chris

Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Armaegis on August 22, 2015, 07:54:28 PM
Earlier this week I was thinking of spending money on more audio gear and tweaks to move me up a fraction of a percent. Then I was a bad audiophile and instead spent the money on humdrum things like new LED dimmer switches, some rebar, floor mats, a vacuum, landscaping cloth, kitchen cartand some lube

It... it would have been cheaper to buy the gear  :-00
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Priidik on August 22, 2015, 09:25:41 PM
obsessing about the last 0.0035%

No idea about TotalDac or MSB, but Yggdrasil vs [every average S-D dac] in the market is more like 350% difference.
I'm eating the best food I have had in my life at mediterranean beach while enjoying crystal clear water with my lovely SO and still can't get my thoughts away from how the Yggdrasil sounded. 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on August 22, 2015, 09:40:38 PM
Personally I obsess far less over the last .0035% than I do over the last 35%. I consider it money well spent from my perspective. What under $5k is there that I want to hear? Nothing. Do i entertain thoughts of what an Yggy with a tube output stage would sound like? Sure. I think about tweaking everything I have for that last Nth degree of performance. I'd do it with a $100 DAC/Amp. Right now I'm more worried about running out of woodglue to clean my records and waiting for the sun to go down to wash my car.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: ericfarrell85 on August 23, 2015, 01:56:23 AM
Personally I obsess far less over the last .0035% than I do over the last 35%. I consider it money well spent from my perspective. What under $5k is there that I want to hear? Nothing. Do i entertain thoughts of what an Yggy with a tube output stage would sound like? Sure. I think about tweaking everything I have for that last Nth degree of performance. I'd do it with a $100 DAC/Amp. Right now I'm more worried about running out of woodglue to clean my records and waiting for the sun to go down to wash my car.

Gear chasing is one of those paradoxical pursuits, that merely intimates a bliss that cannot endure. The most content I've ever been in this hobby was when I purchased my first high-end amp to pair with my first high-end headphone. It was an HD650 and Zana Deux with a DAC that I cannot even recall (possibly W4S). The gear I own today is 15x the price of that setup; the delight and revelry I experience today is 1/5 of what it was. Chasing phantom percentage-increases will not only empty your wallet, but also butcher the pleasure of the ride.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: 7ryder on September 03, 2015, 04:19:45 PM
ComputerAudiophile has a Yggy in for review...right out of the box, Chris is impressed.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/delightful-digital-analogue-converter-week-~-25657/#post461228
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Azteca X on September 03, 2015, 04:33:09 PM
ComputerAudiophile has a Yggy in for review...right out of the box, Chris is impressed.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/delightful-digital-analogue-converter-week-~-25657/#post461228


I generally don't trust Chris' writing these days but I know he does have a large and loyal following that will hopefully audition the Yggy as a result.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Maxx134 on September 10, 2015, 06:47:20 PM
Hello, has anyone used the spdif or other inputs besides the USB on the Yggy?

I realize I have to get really good to get better than yggy usb but still wondering because other dacs like Mastr7 benifit from using other interfaces like OR5
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on September 10, 2015, 07:37:02 PM
Hello, has anyone used the spdif or other inputs besides the USB on the Yggy?

I realize I have to get really good to get better than yggy usb but still wondering because other dacs like Mastr7 benifit from using other interfaces like OR5


Did you read the first and second post?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Elysian on September 10, 2015, 07:58:20 PM
ComputerAudiophile has a Yggy in for review...right out of the box, Chris is impressed.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/delightful-digital-analogue-converter-week-~-25657/#post461228


Great first impressions! I've been checking Computer Audiophile for months for a Yggy review. The comparison to the Berkeley RS is promising, too.

Interesting quote from someone claiming to be with Schiit (Mike(?)) later on in the thread:

Quote (selected)
It is a digital filter/sample rate converter designed to convert all audio to 352.8 or 396KHz sample rates so that it may drive our DACs. You get it uniquely from us; it is our filter. It took five people many years to design and perfect at the dawn of digital playback, way back in the early eighties. It keeps all original samples; those samples contain frequency and phase information which can be optimized not only in the time domain but in the frequency domain. We do precisely this; the mechanic is we add 7 new optimized samples between the original ones.

All digital filters multiply the original audio signal by a series of coefficients which are calculated by a digital filter generator. Over the years, before Theta Digital was born (my original company), we developed this filter design/generator. The common digital filter method is a Parks-McClellan algorithm, which has been used in all of the older oversampling chipsets, and persists to this day as the input filter in most ds DACs. Why? I assume it is because it is royalty-free, and the algorithm is widely available as are digital filter software design packages to aid in a cookbook aproach to the design. Now Parks McClellan an open form math solution, which means that the coefficient calculation is a series of approximations which always get halfway there. This of course, means it never completely solves. The worse news is that all original sample are lost, replaced by 8 new approximated ones. Further, the Parks McClellan optimization is based on the frequency domain only – flat frequency response, with the time (read spatial) domain ignored.

Our filter is based upon closed form math – the coefficients are not approximations, the equations solve; the matrices invert and the math is done. The filter also optimizes the time domain.

This is the reason that on good recordings (with good playback system as well) through Yggy (and now Gungnir multibit) you can hear the hall, its dimensions, and the exact position of anyone coughing or farting in the room, the motions and locations of instruments being hoisted in preparation of being played, etc. etc. Details such as sheet music pages being turned are not muddled because of clear differential spatial cues. This comes exclusively from our filter. A friend of mine, Jonathan Horwich, sells master tapes in ½ track form – at least 15 IPS, and 30 (I believe) as well. On those analog masters, you can also hear the entire environment before the music starts – what is amazing there is that even if on accounts for hearing “down into” the analog noise, the S/N indicates a 14 bit performance at best for those tapes. 14 bit or not – those tapes, totally scratch my itch. If you want that, we got that and more for your digital pleasure.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anaxilus on September 10, 2015, 08:24:29 PM
He talks about farting. It can only be Mike Moffat.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: lm4der on September 11, 2015, 06:43:40 PM
farting

huh huhhh.  he said farting
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: mikemoffat on September 15, 2015, 09:43:29 AM
Yup me
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Anders on September 19, 2015, 01:50:54 PM
Hey quick question about the Ygg- remember that article that said some DACs do 24/192 worse than 24/96, does the Ygg sound better at 24/96?

The 24/192 files would be down sampled to 24/96 since my AD converter is native at 24/192 if that helps or not.

edit: to make my post a bit clearer why I am bringing up AD converter is I do a lot of my own recordings to multitrack tape. Going back to my personal playback I generally buy/download 24/192 but haven't done any listening tests down converting to 24/96.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Chris F on September 19, 2015, 05:07:05 PM
Hey quick question about the Ygg- remember that article that said some DACs do 24/192 worse than 24/96, does the Ygg sound better at 24/96?

Ygg will internally upsample both signals to 384.  There should be no difference. 
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 05:10:24 PM
It might be fun to try different sample rates derived from the same source.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: pedalhead on September 27, 2015, 09:42:29 PM
Possibly a bit late to the Yggy party here, but I've managed to snaffle an Yggy/Rag combo for home demo for a month or so with my HE-1000s.  After having Yggy powered on for three days (it was only switched off for a few hours while I brought it home) I've tonight been doing a careful comparison against a couple of Sabre dacs I have here (DiDiT DAC212 and Pulse X Infinity). Once I figured out what to listen for, the Yggy really is on another level, particularly in terms of the tiny details it seems able to present which the other dacs just smooth over.

I hear the biggest difference in voices...the minute textures in, for example, Nick Drake's voice on "Way to Blue" are totally smoothed over on the Sabre dacs, whilst the Yggy is showing me all these little micro-sounds that make his voice so much more human.  When he holds a note, I'm hearing the slight rasp in his voice....think in terms of a slightly jaggedy horizontal line, whereas the other two dacs show a straight flat line, more of a one-note sound.  I've heard this song probably hundreds of times...never heard these little details. The Yggy also avoids that uncomfortable mid-range push you can sometimes get when a voice gets stronger/louder momentarily...on the Yggy these ebb and flows of volume sound natural, whereas the other two dacs both exhibt that annoying (to my ears) push.

I wasn't sure what to think of all the Yggy hype before hearing one outside of show conditions, but I'm now a convert for sure. So much so that I can ignore the huge ugly box of a chassis. Will be placing an order soon.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: money4me247 on September 28, 2015, 12:28:48 AM
Possibly a bit late to the Yggy party here, but I've managed to snaffle an Yggy/Rag combo for home demo for a month or so with my HE-1000s.  After having Yggy powered on for three days (it was only switched off for a few hours while I brought it home) I've tonight been doing a careful comparison against a couple of Sabre dacs I have here (DiDiT DAC212 and Pulse X Infinity). Once I figured out what to listen for, the Yggy really is on another level, particularly in terms of the tiny details it seems able to present which the other dacs just smooth over.

I hear the biggest difference in voices...the minute textures in, for example, Nick Drake's voice on "Way to Blue" are totally smoothed over on the Sabre dacs, whilst the Yggy is showing me all these little micro-sounds that make his voice so much more human.  When he holds a note, I'm hearing the slight rasp in his voice....think in terms of a slightly jaggedy horizontal line, whereas the other two dacs show a straight flat line, more of a one-note sound.  I've heard this song probably hundreds of times...never heard these little details. The Yggy also avoids that uncomfortable mid-range push you can sometimes get when a voice gets stronger/louder momentarily...on the Yggy these ebb and flows of volume sound natural, whereas the other two dacs both exhibt that annoying (to my ears) push.

I wasn't sure what to think of all the Yggy hype before hearing one outside of show conditions, but I'm now a convert for sure. So much so that I can ignore the huge ugly box of a chassis. Will be placing an order soon.

what did you think of the raggy for an amp pairing for the he-1k?
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: pedalhead on September 28, 2015, 07:14:26 AM
Hi Money.  Honestly,  the Rag never impressed me when I heard it at shows,  and now that I have it here I'm still not blown away.  At the moment I don't have another amp to compare other than the built-in amps in the DAC212 and Pulse,  neither of which are stellar (although the Pulse amp section is better than DAC212 - the latter can be a tad dry).  The Rag strikes me as lacking the final bit of refinement that a top end amp should have,  strikes me as a tad rough.  There's no denying it's versatility though.  If I needed a speaker amp too them it might be a different story.

Hopefully my incoming Wells Audio Enigma  :)p7 will arrive in time for a comparison with the Rag.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: Rotijon on September 28, 2015, 11:18:49 AM
Hi Money.  Honestly,  the Rag never impressed me when I heard it at shows,  and now that I have it here I'm still not blown away.  At the moment I don't have another amp to compare other than the built-in amps in the DAC212 and Pulse,  neither of which are stellar (although the Pulse amp section is better than DAC212 - the latter can be a tad dry).  The Rag strikes me as lacking the final bit of refinement that a top end amp should have,  strikes me as a tad rough.  There's no denying it's versatility though.  If I needed a speaker amp too them it might be a different story.

Hopefully my incoming Wells Audio Enigma  :)p7 will arrive in time for a comparison with the Rag.

Hey, im curious, can think of a solid state amp with that "final bit of refinement" ? I'd really rather not go tubes.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: pedalhead on September 28, 2015, 11:32:05 AM
Hey, im curious, can think of a solid state amp with that "final bit of refinement" ? I'd really rather not go tubes.


Well that's the million dollar question isn't it.  I'm yet to hear Yggy with any other amps under non-meet conditions, but as far as other amps I've heard that have impressed me...Wells Audio Headtrip, EC 2a3 MKIV, McIntosh MHA100, Trilogy 933. As far as synergy with Yggy though, at this point I have no idea.
Title: Re: Schiit Yggdrasil Review and Impressions yggygiggity thread (production units)
Post by: jexby on September 28, 2015, 04:57:06 PM
Hey, im curious, can think of a solid state amp with that "final bit of refinement" ? I'd really rather not go tubes.


Eddie Current Black Widow.
done.