CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Music and Recordings => Topic started by: Stapsy on August 01, 2013, 11:22:31 PM
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I love classical music but find the sheer volume of recordings a little bit daunting, so why not start a thread to discuss our favorite classical recordings? I still go back and read the jazz thread for ideas, hopefully this thread will become a great reference as well.
I will start it off with the first classical album I bought - Beethoven Complete Piano Sonatas by Vladimir Ashkenazy on Decca. I bought it when I was in school to listen to while I studied for exams. I think it only cost $10 for the whole collection. I still hear Ashkenazy's playing in my head whenever I listen to other rendition's of Beethoven Sonatas. It is not a definitive collection but I think it is a great introduction to solo classical piano and I still thoroughly enjoy it.
Now I will shamelessly ask for some recommendations. I am looking for Ravel, Debussy, Chopin, and Satie. Anything will do..solo piano, chamber, orchestral...I want it all.
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I recently bought Chopin Preludes, op.28 by Samson Francois and it is pretty well done. To be honest, I only bought it for Fantasie Impromptu and No.4 op.28 but all the other preludes are done quite well.
Helene Grimaud's Resonances is pretty stellar as well, recommended!
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I have the Murray Perahia recording of the Op. 10 and Op. 25 Preludes. It's good but not mind-blowing.
For both Debussy and Ravel, I don't think there's a pianist currently active who can touch Jean-Efflam Bavouzet. He's done the complete solo piano works of both composers, Debussy for Chandos and Ravel for MDG.
One of my favorite string quartet recordings of recent years is the Quatuor Ebene album with the Debussy, the Ravel, and the Faure.
If you ask ten people to name their favorite complete set of the Beethoven sonatas, you'll probably get at least ten answers. I'm a Paul Lewis guy. My favorite recording of any Beethoven work for piano is the Rubinstein/Boston Symphony recording of the "Emperor Concerto" from the mid-60s. I recently got a mint vinyl copy (not a first pressing, a reissue from the early 1970s, but still sounds great) for $1.99. Buying used classical records at stores that cater to punkers is just unfair. :)p13
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Yea I know what you mean. I bought the complete Rubenstein Chopin collection for 10 bucks from the record store by my work.
I will check out your recommendations. I just bought the Tcherepnin collection that Tari mentioned. I like it, not too modern but still interesting. Bonus points for being able to hear the composer play his own work. It is unfortunate that this wasn't possible outside of the last hundred years.
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Complete Rubenstein collection is really definitive for Chopin's piano works and will take a long time to digest. Ashkenazy is also one of the better performers of the Beethoven Sonatas, so you've definitely made a good start in some major players.
For Debussy, I'm personally a Michelangeli fan. JEB is good as are many others - I'd just steer clear of Arrau, he slows everything down way too much. I have this (http://www.amazon.com/The-Debussy-Edition-Claude/dp/B00742LLKU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1375484811&sr=8-3&keywords=debussy+box+set) Debussy set and it has a very good cross section of pieces/performers, though it misses a couple.
For Ravel, I always liked Gieseking (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Piano-Music-Walter-Gieseking/dp/B00005ONOX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375485322&sr=8-1&keywords=gieseking+ravel) for playing it more dynamically than many others. The Decca set (http://www.amazon.com/Ravel-Complete-Edition-%C2%8Cuvres-Compl%C3%A8tes/dp/B008KGWWL6/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1375484811&sr=8-14&keywords=debussy+box+set) is also nice. I'd also check out this (http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Piano-Concerto-Ravel-Gaspard/dp/B000001GQQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375485160&sr=8-1&keywords=argerich+ravel) recording of Martha Argerich.
Never been too much of a Satie fan so I'm not too familiar with different editions. He's famous for his gymnopedies so I'd check out those I guess.
The Tcherepnin I posted was missing his Bagatelles and Etudes which are some of my favorite works. I've got those too, they're available on Amazon but its not like there are many versions to choose from.
This is all off the top of my head while I'm crunched for time, but there's a lot more out there. If you don't want to spend much, amazon has these periodic online download deals with box sets of composers for like $1.99. Absolutely ridiculous.
I'd also say that if you're starting out, not to worry too much about who is playing as really differentiating that well comes with time - the more important thing is to find the styles of classical music you like (just like any genre, you'll probably be uninterested in the bulk of it and only truly captured by certain styles), the composers you prefer within those styles, (baroque, romantic, impressionist, minimalist, etc) the works you prefer by those composers, and only then the versions you prefer of those compositions.
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Thanks for the input, I find that classical music does require more digesting than any other music I listen to. I will work my way through your suggestions. So far I have been going to the record store and just grabbing things that look interesting.
You are right about the different versions. There is no point in getting caught up worrying about it. At this point I am trying to get exposure to music that goes beyond the "standards" that they play on the local classical radio station. Even in the last year I find that my tastes have changed quite a bit. I am going to go to some concert's this year as well. It will be nice to experience a live orchestra for the first time.
Do you guys have any experience with Nikolai Kapustin? My girlfriend is kind of obsessed with some of his compositions, but I am not sure what to think at the moment. It is so hard to describe, kind of like classical jazz fusion? Maybe it is to modern for me.
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Thanks for the input, I find that classical music does require more digesting than any other music I listen to. I will work my way through your suggestions. So far I have been going to the record store and just grabbing things that look interesting.
You are right about the different versions. There is no point in getting caught up worrying about it. At this point I am trying to get exposure to music that goes beyond the "standards" that they play on the local classical radio station. Even in the last year I find that my tastes have changed quite a bit. I am going to go to some concert's this year as well. It will be nice to experience a live orchestra for the first time.
Do you guys have any experience with Nikolai Kapustin? My girlfriend is kind of obsessed with some of his compositions, but I am not sure what to think at the moment. It is so hard to describe, kind of like classical jazz fusion? Maybe it is to modern for me.
Are you fuckign kidding me. I've been obsessed with Kapustin for the past 7 years. The guy is a genius, and he's still alive.
His earlier stuff is just like that, jazz idiomed music, most people would never peg it as classical. his later stuff is not that out there though. Some of his earlier sonatas maybe fit that, kind of Prokofiev like, for example his 3rd, 4th, and 5th Sonatas.
His music is becoming hugely popular with pianists now because it's techinically demanding but has so much jazz influence in it too that it is sure to be a hit with crossover audiences, some of his pieces are now popping up on the competition circuit quite often now, but it's mostly his early/mid stuff like his Concert Etudes, his Variations you can find all over youtube with Yuja Wang playing it. his writing is also extremely pianistic, as difficult as it is it also fits very well under the hand, his fingerings are very intuitive for technically proficient pianists. Marc Andre Hamelin only has 1 dedicated disc out unfortunately, and plays the 2nd Sonata on his "IN a State of Jazz" album (this is a great jazz-influenced jazz album, Weissenberg's sonata is an amazing piece).
He has a saxophone concerto, I've only heard one recording of it, it's a great piece, the album also pairs it with another great sax concerto by Eshpai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0yTQkud1IE
Stapsy I suggest the above because it is not modern, it only gets to about the level of French impressionism, the rest is all big band and 70s funk sound mixed in. Very accessible. Plus it shows off his great compositional and orchestration ability.
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i echo Tari's ideas about not being too concerned about the performers when starting out. Or even later on really, in the end it's the composer and score that matter most, the performer(s) is just a tool.
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Yay, a classical thread!
Well, I think I'll suggest a few things here and there that might be good for a person building a classical collection. Also, maybe it'll stimulate discussion and sharing.
I'll start with a set of Beethoven's 9 Symphonies--everybody who can hear sounds should have that, pretty much.
One of my very favorite Beethoven symphony cycles is also one of the cheapest, George Szell conducting a surprising very, very good Cleveland Symphony: http://www.amazon.com/George-Szell-Conducts-Beethoven-Symphoni/dp/B00EC0VVRA/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1ETYDD1CAMS1V
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Uh-f6-RoL._SX522_.jpg)
IT'S 15$ BUY IT RIGHT NOW.
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Another must-have for a classical collection are the incredibly beautiful pieces for strings 20th century English composer Ralph Vaughn-Williams composed based on old English modal songs. There's nothing quite like them--they sound haunting and timeless--and they are also an introduction to the music Vaughn-Williams, who deserves more recognition outside of England.
The pieces are: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, The Lark Ascending, and Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus.
You can find them all on this CD, with the gifted Iona Brown on violin and Neville Marriner conducting:
http://www.amazon.com/Greenesleeves-Tallis-Lark-Marriner/dp/B000004CVM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420692777&sr=1-1&keywords=vaughn+williams+dives+and+lazarus
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eiyDsbQdL.jpg)
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As we've started discussing the 2d greatest composer 8), I'm delighted to share some of my favorite great performances with y'all.
Symphonies:
No. 2 Norrington, London Classical Players 1986/87
No. 3 Toscanini, NBC live 1939 and Furtwängler, Vienna 1952
No. 4 Carlos Kleiber, Bavarian Radio live 1982
No. 5 Toscanini, NBC 1939
No. 7 Carlos Kleiber, Vienna 1976
No. 8 Szell, Cleveland 1962
Concerti:
No. 1 Fleisher; Szell, Cleveland 1961
No. 2 Gould; Ladislav Slovàk, Leningrad Conservatory live 1957. Honorable mention: Gould; Bernstein, Columbia Symphony 1957
No. 3 Gould; von Karajan, Berlin live 1957 and Fleisher; Szell, Cleveland 1961. Honorable mention: Cliburn; Ormandy, Philadelphia 1971
No. 4 Schnabel; Stock, Chicago 1942.1 Honorable mention: Fleisher; Szell, Cleveland 1959
No. 5 Gieseking; von Karajan, Philharmonia 1951
Violin concerto Heifetz; Toscanini, NBC 1940
Sonatas:
* Serkin's all-in-one of the "named" sonatas remains a solid choice.
Opp. 13 "Pathétique," 31/2 "Tempest," 57 "Appassionata" Richter 1948, 1977, 1960
Opp. 27/1 "Quasi una fantasia," 27/2 "Moonlight," 31/1 Gould 1981, 1970, 1973
Op. 53 "Waldstein" Hofmann live 1936. Honorable mention: Horowitz, RCA 1956. Distant third: Pollini 1988
Opp. 109, 110 Serkin live 1987. Honorable mention: Solomon 1951, 1956
32 Variations in C minor, WoO 80 Gould 1970, Rachmaninoff (excerpts) 1925, Horowitz 1934, Perahia live 1989
Violin sonata, Op. 47 "Kreutzer" Bartok & Szigeti live 1940
1 This is my other dessert island disc, besides Gould's 1981 Goldbergs.
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Good list, I'll look into those, thanks!
And, as you note, Glenn Gould's 1981 performance of Bach's Goldberg Variations is another must-have recording.
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I had a chance earlier today to listen to the premier recording (Seattle Symphony, Ludovic Morlot cond.) of John Luther Adams' "Become Ocean," which won the Pulitzer Prize for music.
Didn't do much for me. It just sorta sits there, full of foreboding, and occasionally the tonality shifts a little.
It's very Reichian. In fact, I'm tempted to refer to it as "Music for 95 Musicians."
It may be right up your alley, but I doubt I'll listen to it very much.
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Was chatting with knerian and sorrodje about saxophone music and wanted to point out the stupendous Glazunov concerto. For those still spinning records my fav is the one with Mikhailov/Melodiya.
http://www.amazon.com/Glazunov-Concerto-For-Saxophone-Quarte/dp/B003NXOFKW
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Was chatting with knerian and sorrodje about saxophone music and wanted to point out the stupendous Glazunov concerto. For those still spinning records my fav is the one with Mikhailov/Melodiya.
Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered it on CD.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IO56U5M/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=9TDSDV79ZPOL&coliid=I22IEA7R5VSCDT (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IO56U5M/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=9TDSDV79ZPOL&coliid=I22IEA7R5VSCDT)
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I read Bach-head in your signature Claritas, you will love this concerto. Glazunov pays tribute to our fav composer..
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Good list, I'll look into those, thanks!
And, as you note, Glenn Gould's 1981 performance of Bach's Goldberg Variations is another must-have recording.
Actually I have both takes on vinyl and I do prefer him on the '69 recording. Younger, probably less wise but more energetic. Not to mention the 82 is a digital recording (and I stick to good old analog pressings if there is a choice)
@Claritas Your Beethoven list is very close to mine but for some reason I dont see mentioned the holy grail of Ludwig's recordings...
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Actually I have both takes on vinyl and I do prefer him on the '69 recording. Younger, probably less wise but more energetic. Not to mention the 82 is a digital recording (and I stick to good old analog pressings if there is a choice)
@Claritas Your Beethoven list is very close to mine but for some reason I dont see mentioned the holy grail of Ludwig's recordings...
Fur Elise? Very underrated.
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Fur Elise? Very underrated.
LMAO
No, I was referring to the quartets as performed by Sandor Vegh and his quartet. Very expensive on LPs (Valois), it took me years to track them down on CD (Auvidis Valois) and recently I found out that Tidal has them.
As for the sonatas and concertos I enjoy very much Maurizio Pollini on DG
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I thought you were referring to the german language singing symphony.
But you did say recordings, not compositions, and I do remember you talking about that quartet cycle, as it's even in my Amazon wish list.
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Back to our conversation form the shout box, I gave the HD800 a listen all day today. But all of my listening lately has been Bruckner and Mahler, and I find the HE-6 so much more visceral for all the brass passages of which there are many. When I'm in a more subtle mood I think I'll break the HD800 out again.
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Yes, that composition/ recording tops my Beethoven list easily. Naive (which can be found on Amazon) bought the rights from Auvidis Valois and the price is excellent. Unfortunately I paid a whole lot more at the time.
I have not made my mind on the 9th yet, let me know your picks
Back to our conversation form the shout box, I gave the HD800 a listen all day today. But all of my listening lately has been Bruckner and Mahler, and I find the HE-6 so much more visceral for all the brass passages of which there are many. When I'm in a more subtle mood I think I'll break the HD800 out again.
You have a point here knerian. But how do you judge the tutti with the HE6? dont you feel that it turns into a scrambled egg? In my ears the 800 offer a better layering/ distinction among instruments. May I ask what amp/source do you use?
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Added in my library 2 records by Kapustin (2+2, piano pieces), now I have to wait for the new DACs to arrive. Tnx for the tip Knerian
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Added in my library 2 records by Kapustin (2+2, piano pieces), now I have to wait for the new DACs to arrive. Tnx for the tip Knerian
Which piano pc? 2+2 is great, can't rave about it enough.
And to keep it forum relevant, what DACs are you waiting for?
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Yes, that composition/ recording tops my Beethoven list easily. Naive (which can be found on Amazon) bought the rights from Auvidis Valois and the price is excellent. Unfortunately I paid a whole lot more at the time.
I have not made my mind on the 9th yet, let me know your picks
You have a point here knerian. But how do you judge the tutti with the HE6? dont you feel that it turns into a scrambled egg? In my ears the 800 offer a better layering/ distinction among instruments. May I ask what amp/source do you use?
I like the Cyprien Katsaris rendition of the 9th. It's the only solo piano version I've heard. just kidding, I haven't listened to the 9th in a long time, I think the last time was watching Clockwork Orange, but now that we are talking about it I will put it on the playlist. What/who do you recommend?
As for the HE-6/HD800 scrambled egg tutti question, I will need to listen and think about that more. The largest issue is that in a big tutti, do the other instruments besides the brass and timpani even matter? J/K.
I heard Bruckner 8 live yesterday and they had 5 trumpets, 3 trombone, 1 tuba, 8 horns with 4 doubling on Wagner tubas. All symphonies should include that many brass players, seriously. One thing I will say is that no headphone can come CLOSE to a full symphony sound. While it's obvious, you just kind of forget it sometimes. I wrote about the concert in the live concerts thread, but I will say even one good concert is worth the cost of a pc of audio equipment sometimes. It was so good I am going back again tonight for the final performance.
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I hit as many concerts as I can, on a good year 30+, on a bad season still not less than 15 (we are talking classical, i don't count in jazz, rock etc) so I know exactly what you mean knerian. If I had the time and money I would listen to live music every day, this being impossible made me built a decent stereo system for auditioning classic music. Will pm you with some details on equipment.
I found Kapustin's "Jazz pieces for Piano", if by any chance you don't have it let me know.
On the 9th (vinyl) I have Furtwangler, Karajan (both 1st and 2nd take on DG), Ivanov (Melodiya), Konwitschny (Fontana) and maybe something else I am forgetting right now. Like em all but no fav one. Still looking..
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I hit as many concerts as I can, on a good year 30+, on a bad season still not less than 15 (we are talking classical, i don't count in jazz, rock etc) so I know exactly what you mean knerian. If I had the time and money I would listen to live music every day, this being impossible made me built a decent stereo system for auditioning classic music. Will pm you with some details on equipment.
I found Kapustin's "Jazz pieces for Piano", if by any chance you don't have it let me know.
On the 9th (vinyl) I have Furtwangler, Karajan (both 1st and 2nd take on DG), Ivanov (Melodiya), Konwitschny (Fontana) and maybe something else I am forgetting right now. Like em all but no fav one. Still looking..
Ahh, of course I have that Kapustin CD, it's a great intro to his work.
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i can't find this online except for the pianist's own short clip, but this is
Ravel's Rapsodie Espagnole (4th mvt Feria) transcribed for solo piano by Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji, I've seen the score and it's ridiculous, Sorabji writes some of the most dense and complex piano music ever conceived, and this is a transcription from an orchestral piece.
http://www.michaelhabermann.com/sounds/ravel-sorabjiX.mp3 (http://www.michaelhabermann.com/sounds/ravel-sorabjiX.mp3)
It sounds like a personal recording, the CD sound a lot better, I have a copy but will probably eventually buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Kaikhosru-Sorabji-Transcriptions-Miachael-Habermann/dp/B00008ZZ37/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1429043799&sr=8-8&keywords=sorabji+habermann (http://www.amazon.com/Kaikhosru-Sorabji-Transcriptions-Miachael-Habermann/dp/B00008ZZ37/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1429043799&sr=8-8&keywords=sorabji+habermann)
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So I listened to the Sorabji transcriptions by Habermann and it is quite interesting indeed. Got the Opus Clavincembalisticum too, with Ogdon (listening as we speak, it will take the entire night> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_clavicembalisticum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_clavicembalisticum) ). Tnx for the tip Knerian.
I find certain similarities (in the form) with another last century favorite of mine, the concert for 2 pianos (or four hands if you prefer) by Poulenc. Highly recommended for the black disc followers is the Decca LP with Eden and Tamir.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/MJ0AAOSwrx5UX3FH/$_35.JPG)
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Oh the concerto for 2 pianos by Poulenc is a favorite of mine however it is quite simple in form compared to Sorabji.
The Opus Clavecembalisticum I have several recordings of but have yet to listen to it all the way through. I actually am not a huge fan of Sorabji's music, it is very complex and long and a bit beyond my comprehension and tastes.
But I do like his transcription of the Ravel due to it's ridiculous requirements of the pianist, it is laughably ridiculous. He also wrote two paraphrases of Chopin's minute waltz which is also ridiculously complex, impossible to play, yet extremely funny due to his juxtapositions of the different themes in totally unrelated keys. Habermann recorded both of them, unfortunately I cannot find it on youtube or online streaming.
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Everything is quite simple when compared to Sorabji but the sudden changes in rhythm and mood have certain similarities. That Poulenc LP is amazing and not so expensive either for being a Decca.