CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Elmura on November 06, 2014, 06:03:49 AM
-
My current phones, the HD800 are hot off the press (my second set of these) with Serial 314xx
First few hours noted that compared to my previous set with SN 245xx, this had a flatter response. It also seems to have a slightly reduced imaging / spaciousness - need to break it in. I applied for the freq. response and sure enough, this unit had less peak at 6kHz, a slightly higher 10k and overall, smoother response.
To the tweaks:
Tweak 1
This is a really simple, super quick one. I've measured that the further forward you place the HD800 on your head, the less peaky the 5-6kHz gets. Personally, I place the phones such that the back of my ears are just touching the pads.
Tweak 2
You need
1. Foobar
2. Graphic Equalizer Component (foo_dsp_xgeq)
3. Audiocheck.net downloads of the following Sine audio files: 1000Hz, 1250Hz, 1600Hz, 2000Hz, 2500Hz, 3150Hz, 4000Hz, 5000Hz, 6300Hz, 8000Hz, 10000Hz, 12500Hz, 16000Hz (and 20000 if you want to test your hearing).
To save you figuring it out, and me answering questions, I've attached the files.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90236454/Sinewaves.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90236454/Sinewaves.zip)
Install the Graphic Eq Component. Load the sinewaves in your playlist.
Using your ears only, in a quiet environment, play each file whilst using the EQ to try and get them all similar level. Here is where we all differ due to our different ears, heads, hair, and of course headphone variations. Here are my settings:
2.5k -3dB
3.15k -3dB
4k -2dB
5k -4dB
6.3k -5dB
8k 0 (no change)
10 -2.5dB
12.5k +4dB
16k +4dB (My hearing needs more but I don't want to over boost)
20k +4dB (Can't hear it but I didn't want to boost it any more and mess too much using DSP for no real gain.
And for countering the rolloff at 20Hz, add up to 5dB there.
You may need to do this adjustment a few times over a few days as you'll need to give your ears & brain a break. And don't have the volume too high.
The issue most audiophiles, including me, is to keep the signal chain pure. However, after many years in this game, I've come to learn that modest EQ does wonders with little cost to sound quality. Certainly, it has greater benefit than any cable mod or amp.
You're probably aware that many HD800 owners opt for a tube amp to tame these phones. This works in two ways -
a) The high output impedance of the tube amp causes a boost around 100Hz plus a loss of damping (bass control). This boosts bass at one narrow band (not needed there) and causes bass to be looser sounding.
b) The higher distortion of the tube extends the decay of sound which for some music, is pleasant.
Both are at the expense of speed, transients and clarity.
Both are forms of added distortion.
So with a decent quality solid state amp and modest EQ to boost relative bass only where needed, tame the upper mid/ lower treble peaks, you come out with a neutral, agile, spacious, high resolution sound.
Mod 1
The first one is simple but requires careful soldering & tools:
What you need
a) A Neutrik or other high quality TRS male plug
b) Matching female plug (socket)
c) Quality solder (I use German WBT high silver content)
d) Heatshrink
d) Good stripping / cutting tools
e) Soldering iron, Magnifiying heatgun
Simple - cut the factory cable at the 1m (3ft) mark. You may prefer slightly longer. The shorter the better, but it needs to reach your desktop amp when seated. For longer reaches, you use the female plug on the longer length. Warning - the HD800 innards are a REAL PAIN to work with as they're very fine fabric/wire strands.
You get all the benefits of the short cable - one-third the resistance, one-third the inductance, one-third the capacitance. And when you need a greater reach (say in your TV room), you attach the custom made extension.
Or, you make a short cable from scratch if you're capable.
You will surpass any $400 aftermarket 3-metre cable for sonics at a small cost. Or get some professional to do one for you. (We do it in Oz)
Mod 2: This one I haven't actually done yet and is on the potential list and up for debate:
1. Remove the dust covers from inside the cups (reach behind the straight part of the D earpad)
2. With a good knife, cut the circular flat part of the dust cover.
3. Return the dust covers in to position.
The major benefits of this mod are:
a) Nothing between you and the drivers (which can be done without cutting the dust covers to experiment)
b) The covers still act to slightly diffuse / damp reflections off the steel mesh and trapezoidal piece
c) The baffle (adjacent to the driver) is uncovered and unaffected.
Pirates Ahoy walk the plank
Elmura Audio
-
Hi,
Thanks for this in-depth post about EQ'ing the HD800. I do have 2 questions:
- As we are more sensitive for different frequencies, is the method of eq'ing with a sine wave at a specific frequency really correct? ie 90db @ 4khz will be perceived louder than 90db @ 8khz, but they are both still 90db.
- The EQ's I work with (and know) all cut/boost relative to their faders/control next to it. ie if I cut -3db @ 2,5khz, this will start a slope, if I then cut -3db @ 3k15, this slope will extend, I then cut -2db @ 4khz, the slope should go up a little. However, because I'm cutting -4db @ 5khz, the slope has to go down again. What this all adds up to is that the actual cut @ 4khz will be between -3 and -4db. Just checking if this is what you expect / want.
Cheers
-
You're probably aware that many HD800 owners opt for a tube amp to tame these phones. This works in two ways -
a) The high output impedance of the tube amp causes a boost around 100Hz plus a loss of damping (bass control). This boosts bass at one narrow band (not needed there) and causes bass to be looser sounding.
b) The higher distortion of the tube extends the decay of sound which for some music, is pleasant.
Both are at the expense of speed, transients and clarity.
Both are forms of added distortion.
Are you sure there is only 2 ways?
-
Trying to EQ by ear to a similar level is not necessarily a good idea. Human ears have different sensitivities at different frequencies.
You're probably aware that many HD800 owners opt for a tube amp to tame these phones. This works in two ways - a) The high output impedance of the tube amp causes a boost around 100Hz plus a loss of damping (bass control). This boosts bass at one narrow band (not needed there) and causes bass to be looser sounding.b) The higher distortion of the tube extends the decay of sound which for some music, is pleasant. Both are at the expense of speed, transients and clarity.Both are forms of added distortion.
The above is a gross generalization based on the performance of very high output Z OTL tube amps, tube amps with shitty output transformers, cheap tube amps from China used by the typical HF'er, or portable tube amps sold by ALO.
-
Everybody's right. You don't know what you're doing with those HD 800s. Let me take them off your hand for a nominal fee, to save you the headache.
:)p6
Marv, how should a layman without any special gear or much of a clue EQ the phones? I know with speakers, there's an option to use pink noise and a mic with my Marantz receiver, but I don't know how I could manage something similar with phones without a specialized head shaped thing.
-
Oh boy, a hydrogen audio troll.
-
Marv, how should a layman without any special gear or much of a clue EQ the phones? I know with speakers, there's an option to use pink noise and a mic with my Marantz receiver, but I don't know how I could manage something similar with phones without a specialized head shaped thing.
Just listen to gear (speakers, headphones, whatever) which is more or less neutral to get sense - a reference. And then use your ears and a graphic EQ with sufficient bands to adjust.
That's what I did in my car. Just EQ'd by ear until it sounded right. A set of initial gross tweaks, and then minor tweaks for the next few days. I didn't need to use test tones, measuring equipment, etc. A variety of music which you know should be sufficient.
I think LFF posted some ear training stuff. It's really not that hard. Maybe stuff like this: http://www.trainyourears.com/ (http://www.trainyourears.com/) (just an example - I can't vouch for it).
Another approach would be to make a lot of speakers, tuned by ear and measurements.
Tuning frequency response is as much art as science. 100% perfect FR is possible, but many times it's not desirable. For example, I may resort to slight a mid/high bass dip for drivers which have a lot of bass distortion. Or I may bump up the mid-bass on small desktop monitors that roll-off early. Or I may decide not to correct a driver which naturally has a dip around 2-3kHz because it works for a lot of naturally mic'd recordings in concert halls.
-
moulton labs golden ears was pretty good
-
Good pointers. Thanks gents.
-
I took a significant amount of time to donate some audio expertise to help those who aren't yet audio snobs (anaxilus). I could have put this on Head-Fi but thought there might be less sheep here.
Let me tell you my background - I'm an engineer, an inventor, an IT technician, an Audio Visual supplier / system designer / installer, a custom cable builder, and I design & build homes on occasion.
Just because what I have described doesn't resonate with the status quo, it doesn't mean it's incorrect or trolling.
Victor25 and Marvey - You are correct that human ears have different sensitivities at different frequencies. That's precisely why you need to correct for it. Your ears, and head both affect the sound pressure level you perceive (volume for the layman). When comparing frequency bands with a sine wave at 80dB, you should hear them at the same level - regardless of whether a microphone, picking up a small pin-point location, measures differently. A microphone or SPL Meter (which I use for some tests and configurations) are not ears and don't have a flesh & hair covered head around the sensor. For those who are open to learning more about this - there are many scientific studies that talk about this. Eg. Head Related Transfer Function aka HRTF, Ear Sensitivity, How we Hear.
Regarding valve amplifiers - I'm not going to enter the never ending debate of tube vs ss except to say that it takes a very good, large, expensive valve amp to match a much cheaper, smaller properly designed solid state in many technicalities.
The point I was making is that we need not choose amplifiers and cables for their equalisation effect when we can do it simply and often at zero cost.
-
Regarding valve amplifiers - I'm not going to enter the never ending debate of tube vs ss except to say that it takes a very good, large, expensive valve amp to match a much cheaper, smaller properly designed solid state in many technicalities.
That's the problem. You didn't enter into the debate, you STARTED it in your own thread. You are now by definition trolling.
Out of curiosity, what is this cheap entry level SS amp that is as resolving as a well done expensive valve amplifier?
Btw, if you own an HD800 you're an audio snob. Hate to break it to you.
-
Why do so many people prefer the HD800 when pushing them as far forward as you can? Sure, it drops the treble, but it makes them sounds lifeless. It all depends on ear size, but still.
-
The point I was making is that we need not choose amplifiers and cables for their equalisation effect when we can do it simply and often at zero cost.
You do realize that amplifiers/cables don't provide outright equalization yes? I don't think we have ever recommended an amp that is 3dB down at 6k.
Also, why are you recommending F2K's default graphic EQ? Look around the web and you can find way better PEQ plugins.
-
3. Audiocheck.net downloads of the following Sine audio files: 1000Hz, 1250Hz, 1600Hz, 2000Hz, 2500Hz, 3150Hz, 4000Hz, 5000Hz, 6300Hz, 8000Hz, 10000Hz, 12500Hz, 16000Hz (and 20000 if you want to test your hearing).
To save you figuring it out, and me answering questions, I've attached the files.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90236454/Sinewaves.zip
Install the Graphic Eq Component. Load the sinewaves in your playlist.
Using your ears only, in a quiet environment, play each file whilst using the EQ to try and get them all similar level. Here is where we all differ due to our different ears, heads, hair, and of course headphone variations. Here are my settings:
Also, I hope you don't setup people's home theaters using this method. You should try using pink noise and then listening for any deviations. This method takes a little time to perfect but it's more reliable than swept tones. Especially when you're talking about headphones which can reveal odd peaks and nulls based on the fact that the transducer/enclosure are essentially strapped to your head.
Marv (AFAIK) and I both use pink noise to test for neutrality with our loudspeakers. You can even get better if you do this with a pair of loudspeakers and your hand on the PEQ settings to adjust bit by bit. Like I said, it takes a little practice but once you get good at it even tiny deviations can become obvious.
-
Anaxilus:
Let me enlighten you. A "troll" is one who makes inflammatory remarks on a public forum. The fact that you jumped on my thread to call me a troll with a reference to Hydrogen Audio forums fits that definition... Perfectly!
Further, an "audio snob" is one who makes it clear they believe they have superior status; superior opinion; believes that solid state is rubbish outright; dismisses measurements; publicly dismisses certain brands and components as inferior based on personal bias / low price / ego. Sound like anyone??
Show me one place on the web where I've gloated about owning a HD800! I bought it to get closer to a live acoustic presentation - not for status. There are many more expensive phones.
In future, when you are about to post on someone's thread and any of the above descriptions fit what you're about to write -- don't!
As I said, my thread was to enlighten other owners of the HD800 that there's another way to optimise the sound of the HD800 without going to the expense of a high end tube or expensive cables. I don't have anything against high end tube headphone amps except their size, cost, and maintenance.
OJneg:
Cables do have a tone effect. They don't have specific frequency boost/cut but they can adjust treble or bass depending on their electrical reactance.
Similarly, amplifiers and DACs with rolled off bass and/or treble do the same thing.
If you read subjective and objective reviews of cables and amps, most will report if bass or treble is affected. This hence is the benefit of EQ - it is much more specific, finely adjustable, completely reversible and usually FREE!
I did not recommend Foobar's built in graphic EQ. I recommended the optional downloadable component from Foobar's site as this is easily found, supported and easily installed. If you have recommendation for a "way better PEQ plugin" that is straighforward to install & use, why don't you list it?
When optimising home theatre systems, of course I use pink noise, but only to match channels precisely with the SPL Meter, set the best crossover point on the subwoofer, and set the relative level of the subwoofer. Occasionally I'll use bass tones to identify standing waves to ajust listening position or sub position. I doubt anyone uses DSP EQ for home theatre on each speaker.
-
Cables do have a tone effect. They don't have specific frequency boost/cut but they can adjust treble or bass depending on their electrical reactance.
Similarly, amplifiers and DACs with rolled off bass and/or treble do the same thing.
If you read subjective and objective reviews of cables and amps, most will report if bass or treble is affected. This hence is the benefit of EQ - it is much more specific, finely adjustable, completely reversible and usually FREE!
Please post example/source/circuit diagram of a cable that is meant to apply outright EQ on the signal. I remember seeing some measurements of a whole bunch of cables (Ratshack to exotica) and none of them had enough L or C to touch the audioband.
I agree that certain amplifiers can seem bassier or brighter (or deficient in those characteristics) than others in a listening test. However you measure any of these amplifiers and they'll be very flat within their given bandwidth. Maybe half a dB down at 20 or 20k for certain gear with signal transformers or coupling caps. There's no EQ going on from an electrical standpoint but if you can think of some exception please point it out for me.
I did not recommend Foobar's built in graphic EQ. I recommended the optional downloadable component from Foobar's site as this is easily found, supported and easily installed. If you have recommendation for a "way better PEQ plugin" that is straighforward to install & use, why don't you list it?
Which one are you referring too?
I've use EasyQ. There was another I used to use but it was kinda buggy. EasyQ is kinda buggy too actually. EqualizerAPO is a better option if you want to apply EQ from any application.
When optimising home theatre systems, of course I use pink noise, but only to match channels precisely with the SPL Meter, set the best crossover point on the subwoofer, and set the relative level of the subwoofer. Occasionally I'll use bass tones to identify standing waves to ajust listening position or sub position. I doubt anyone uses DSP EQ for home theatre on each speaker.
That's exactly what most HT receivers are equipped to do. I know for a fact that my big ass Yamaha has the ability to apply PEQ to each channel.
I agree that swept tones can be useful for finding modal resonances in rooms.
-
Sigh, so much BS to wade through. Thanks for not taking the time to actually answer my question about your claim of SS v. tube performance at relative values. One can only assume your deliberate choice to NOT answer is indicative of a lack of experience or data to support your claim and actually answer the question. Now that the only substantive part of your dialogue is out of the way, we can move on to your unsubstantiated ad-hominem attacks and preconceived prejudices.
Anaxilus: Let me enlighten you.
This should be rich. facepalm
A "troll" is one who makes inflammatory remarks on a public forum. The fact that you jumped on my thread to call me a troll with a reference to Hydrogen Audio forums fits that definition... Perfectly!
Not quite, let's not put the cart before the horse by falling prey to your historical revisionism. You framed and attacked tubes versus SS amps exactly like, wait for it....like someone who frequents hydrogen audio would. Myself and others called you out on it. Personally, I think most of your OP is a troll presenting EQ and acoustic mods on the HD800 as an original concept you came up with but we'll get to that more later. Suffice to say, your posts clearly indicate you did not take the time to read through this forum well enough to understand its contents let alone many of the characters which make up its community before jumping in with your 'unique' assistance.
Further, an "audio snob" is one who makes it clear they believe they have superior status; superior opinion; believes that solid state is rubbish outright; dismisses measurements; publicly dismisses certain brands and components as inferior based on personal bias / low price / ego. Sound like anyone??
1-Hmm...that's an interesting Merriam Webster definition you got there. Show me where I have stated or indicated I have superior status or that owning an HD800 makes me have such? You can't because I only care about how stuff sounds, otherwise I'd buy a 009 + BHSE and tell everybody to go suck it if your accusation actually had any merit.
2-Superior opinion? Not quite. I believe everyone has a right to an opinion, though not all opinions are right. I suppose if you think 1+1=3 and that the earth is flat and supported by giant turtles I probably don't hold your opinion in high regard. Right now your disengagement from actual constructive dialogue about facts makes you sound like a turtler to me, so take that as you may.
3-SS is rubbish outright? Odd to reconcile that with my recommendations of the Ragnarok, Leckerton, Geek Out, ODAC, Lavry DAC, MSB and SS amps from Pass and Venture. I've also used a PWD 1>2 for more than 3 years now and have a vintage Sansui 5000. Of course you wouldn't know this because you clearly like to leap before you look. That is...open your mouth and make claims and accusations before reading and learning about who or what you are speaking. Your preconceptions clearly are becoming even more indicative of someone who came here to troll from another site. That or you are a current or former O2 fascist.
4-Dismisses measurements? Seems between the two of our mods presented, I'm the only one here who actually has posted several measurements as to their impact, as opposed to your listing a tuned by ear PEQ chart. Boy, you have a lot of pent up aggression and a definite mental preconceptions of me devoid of any facts to back them up. To help quell your turn to the dark side, I suppose I should take this opportunity to apologize to you if I was incorrect labeling you as a member from Hydrogen Audio...rather than Anything But iPod, H-fi unsound science or Harold/Voldemort's dead bloggie.
5-Dismissal based on bias? Uh, yeah...how else would you form a critical opinion of something? One must have a set of preferred biases to establish a criteria and evaluate and recommend things accordingly. Pretty sure most of my criticisms have been backed up with facts and reasons explained ad nauseum, unlike your own arbitrary rectal machinations formed by your preconceived biases from gawd knows what forum. ;)
I dare you to show me one single example in my 4+ years posting about audio where I have EVER dismissed anything out of hand simply because it was too cheap or low price. Brands or components I criticize have stated reasons outlining why. Get over your big, bad, boogie man characterization and grow up. Maybe if my opinions are so superficial and unjustified you should stop taking them so seriously so you can maybe sleep alone better at night. :-\
Show me one place on the web where I've gloated about owning a HD800! I bought it to get closer to a live acoustic presentation - not for status. There are many more expensive phones.
I never said anything about 'status' you said that. I was defining an audio snob as one who is critical of musical presentation and holds certain technical and subjective qualities in higher regard than others. Hence an HD800 owner would tend to fit that description unless they just owned them for status. Status is never an attribute that occurs to me naturally hence my disconnect with someone who is preoccupied with it like yourself by bringing it into your own thread multiple times and in the light you framed it. On that note, someone who isn't a snob doesn't often post things like you did. Let's have a look shall we?:
"Let me tell you my background - I'm an engineer, an inventor, an IT technician, an Audio Visual supplier / system designer / installer, a custom cable builder, and I design & build homes on occasion."
Hmm, who sounds like the snob here indeed?! Who was the first one actually bringing status and snobbery into this thread? YOU! :spank:
2-So you own the HD800 to get closer to a live music experience, but if own them I'm an "audio snob". Got it! ::)
In future, when you are about to post on someone's thread and any of the above descriptions fit what you're about to write -- don't!
Are you reflecting on your own self here? I commend you on recognizing the first step to treating a problem is to recognize it first. After all, learning is half the battle! :)p1 Recommendation: If you don't like how the timber will burn, don't start the fire or pour gas on it!
As I said, my thread was to enlighten other owners of the HD800 that there's another way to optimise the sound of the HD800 without going to the expense of a high end tube or expensive cables. I don't have anything against high end tube headphone amps except their size, cost, and maintenance.
Thanks for ignoring all the other posts and threads about various mods and tweaks for the HD800 that do NOT involve expensive tube amps or cables either. Way to make a first impression on a community by ignoring the work and contributions of its members. You also clearly ignored the guidelines and charter of the forum. This is the irreverant headphone forum, not the reverant one where there are no wrong answers or everything sounds the same.
Next time, make sure you are in the right place before YOU post.
Now that the nonsense if over with, consider this a warning. I've already discussed this with all the other mods here and this will be your first and last warning to post in accordance with the manner the rest of the community does. Many of us do not agree on things from transducer type to politics and hamburgers. We'd likely have our hands around each others throats in a bar but laugh it off after a few rounds and trips to the porcelain temple. :vomit:
You either get it here, or you don't. You get one more chance to figure out if this place is for you or not. I decided not to give you a warning via pm as I can imagine what that conversation would devolve into based on prior experience with others of the type you are portraying yourself as here atm. So we are keeping this laundry out in the open for now (which is how it seems you prefer it based on you previous examples).
If you actually want to start to contribute here I'd recommend growing a thicker skin, developing a sense of humour and staying on the actual facts. Invoking my name in any negatively sarcastic, snide or unfactual manner would not go a long way toward that goal FYI. Good luck.
-
I just wanted to say that I'm an engineer (processor datapaths), computer scientist (numerical analysis, compilers / parsing), a PC technician, a certified IT manager (I was an IT Director at a bank), a certified network penetration tester / ethical hacker, a headphone amp designer (op-amps only), a network security architect, a custom cable builder, a master vegetable gardener, a piano player (just picking this up again with my kids after 20 years of no practice), a expert in Mozart (his life and his music), a bassist, a speaker designer (all sorts of designs, wide-range, horns, inefficient metal domes with zillion piece crossovers, etc., and since I was in my teens too), a mixing engineer (live shows on the road). I also make custom cables from the cheapest highest-value cables I can find. I have also built homes for charitable causes and I do most of the remodeling in my house because I don't trust contractors. However I hate working with chainsaws, so I hired two Mexican dudes to remove the broken hot-tub in the backward. I also meditate, and have recited hundreds of thousands of mantras, but I'm really bad at it.
However, I have never invented anything I would consider unique. Oh, my dad is an electrical engineer too. He learned electrical engineering when there were only tubes. He's done less different things than I have, but I think he's way smarter and worked way harder than me. He was valedictorian as an undergrad at his university. Then he learned about ICs while he was in grad school. And my mom is a level 46 ballroom dancer. And my oldest cousin is a composer and conductor and is Taiwan's most prolific composer. He composes a lot of new music stuff that would make most peoples' brains explode. And my wife is related to Henry Ford. And I personally know the geniuses behind Theta and Moth.
-
I'm some ex-Army dude and graduated from The Onion University. I invented orange juice. You're welcome!! :)p4
-
I'm some ex-Army dude and graduated from The Onion University. I invented orange juice. You're welcome!! :)p4
I hate orange juice.
-
I hate orange juice.
juice snob *:p
-
LFF,
where's the love for Vitamin C? With flu season about to begin in the US, don't tempt fate :)
-
Why do so many people prefer the HD800 when pushing them as far forward as you can? Sure, it drops the treble, but it makes them sounds lifeless. It all depends on ear size, but still.
Exactly why i can't use EQ with really good gear, it sucks the energy out of the music.
-
POST EDITED DUE TO ABUSIVE CONTENT AND UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOUR-MONGERING THAT ELMURA IS A SEXUALLY ACTIVE IMPLEMENT USED TO CARRY OUT A SPECIFIC FUNCTION. PICTURES OF ELMURA AS SAID PROMISCUOUS TOOL MUST BE FOUND AS CONCRETE EVIDENCE FOR POST TO BE REINSTATED.
-CHANGSTAR MODERATION
-
Anaxilus - I can't even begin to bother with responding to all your BS remarks, insults & accusations.
Double standards abound. Just remember - you started this mess !
Hopefully, open minded users will see through the mud and identify the useful advice I have portrayed.
Zerodefex - Real mature! The summary of my experience was provided to substantiate my advice, not to impress you or anyone else.
-
Did you seriously just report an admin to the admins and mods here?
-
I hate orange juice.
Agree. Grape drank is way better.
-
Oh man, if this was Head-Fi we would nuke this thread so hard. Shit lets do it for fun
(http://www.thirtyfive.io.php53-23.dfw1-1.websitetestlink.com/thirtyfivewp/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/nuke.jpg)
-
LFF,
where's the love for Vitamin C? With flu season about to begin in the US, don't tempt fate :)
That's why I got my flu shot! Can't listen to music if your ears are plugged up. :o
Oh yeah, I've done stuff too. I just can't always remember what they are. p:8
-
I guess some folk like learning the hard way. Rock on, OP.
-
That's why I got my flu shot! Can't listen to music if your ears are plugged up. :o
Doesn't that like, u know, give ya da flu? I stopped w/ flu shots cuz they gave me the flu and were usually the wrong strain meaning I could end up with two flus for one flu season.
-
I took a significant amount of time to donate some audio expertise to help those who aren't yet audio snobs (anaxilus). I could have put this on Head-Fi but thought there might be less sheep here.
Just because what I have described doesn't resonate with the status quo, it doesn't mean it's incorrect or trolling.
I don’t know if you’ve looked around here much, but EQ has been advocated my many, including myself. Some have built passive EQ circuits for certain headphones since not all people use computer sources with handy digital EQ.
Let me tell you my background - I'm an engineer, an inventor, an IT technician, an Audio Visual supplier / system designer / installer, a custom cable builder, and I design & build homes on occasion.
Zerodefex - Real mature! The summary of my experience was provided to substantiate my advice, not to impress you or anyone else.
Lots of us fuckers here have done a lot of cool shit in their lives. They don’t advertise it. Citing credentials gets you tarred and feathered here. This is not Head-Fi. We are not stupid. It's best to substantiate your advice with by gaining respect and trust of the members here over time.
When comparing frequency bands with a sine wave at 80dB, you should hear them at the same level regardless of whether a microphone, picking up a small pin-point location, measures differently.
Fletcher-Munson or actually the better ISO 226 says otherwise. Perceived loudness drops off after 3kHz. This is why the test tone approach doesn't work, unless one has been trained to know how the loudness levels are supposed to be at for each frequency. Also 80db test tones are annoying. IMO, you've tweaked the mid to upper treble of the HD800 too loud. Not surprising because thought perceived loudness levels were supposed to be the same which they are not.
Regarding valve amplifiers - I'm not going to enter the never ending debate of tube vs ss except to say that it takes a very good, large, expensive valve amp to match a much cheaper, smaller properly designed solid state in many technicalities.
Why do you say you are not going to enter the debate, and then proceed to enter the debate? Lots of very good tube amps with clarity, speed, resolution: Schiit Valhalla. Torpedo. Crack (although higher output Z). S7. Even used ZDs. From $200-$1000. Fairly cheap in the universe of highly inflated prices of 2014.
The point I was making is that we need not choose amplifiers and cables for their equalisation effect when we can do it simply and often at zero cost.
No shit Sherlock. Get to know us better. Most of us here don’t advocate tube amps or cables for HD800 for the primary purpose of EQing or tonally shaping them. We’ve suggested mods to lessen the deleterious effects of the HD800 cup design (computer simulated by arnaud, measured/corroborated by us.) Also, EQ doesn't solve the cup resonance issue, so HD800 does not respond to EQ as well as other headphones. We advocate tube amps (cheap small to expensive large) primarily to take full advantage of the HD800’s resolution and dynamic capabilities. We discourage tube amps which cause deleterous effects, mud, syrup, distortion to HD800.
And if people wanted to tonally color their HD800 via amps or cables, we are not going to stop them. In fact, we may even help them - according to how much they wanted to spend and what effect they wanted to achieve. Who are we to say?
There wouldn't have been a problem if you had simply suggested the use of EQ with the HD800 without making erroneous assumptions, trying to act as the smartest person in the room, and being a self-righteous cocksucker trying to prevent stupid people from wasting their money on cables or tube amps.
-
That's why I got my flu shot!
#//^/#&&/#$@!!!OFG!!!!!
You're gonna die from a concoction of alien testicles, mercury, aluminium, animal poop, Jamal chicken w/ hot sauce special.......
Spaghetti.
-
Doesn't that like, u know, give ya da flu? I stopped w/ flu shots cuz they gave me the flu and were usually the wrong strain meaning I could end up with two flus for one flu season. -
U ar gitten the rong shot Matey. The 1 i git makes mi spilling impruv! I think that shot is making me feel like poo
#//^/#&&/#$@!!!OFG!!!!!
You're gonna die from a concoction of alien testicles, mercury, aluminium, animal poop, Jamal chicken w/ hot sauce special.......
Spaghetti.
That's no problem! That's pretty much what they serve for lunch where I work, so I be immune. :-DD
-
seems like Elmura came in with good intentions and I don't want to comb through the walls of agitated text. why is there a flame war in here?
I for one think calling a suggestion for EQ anything other than that is silly and the eq itself should be rationalized better so I'm not trying to say he's right but wtf is going on here.
EDIT: I definitely think the title of the thread should be Elmura's Experience with HD800 - so maybe the inappropriate framing is what caused it?
-
Wow! What egos Marvey & Anaxilus have!
Clearly, you revert to abuse, aggression, insults, threats and false claims when someone here doesn't resonate with your opinions.
I'm not going to get sucked in to your immature flame war.
-
Install the Graphic Eq Component. Load the sinewaves in your playlist.
Using your ears only, in a quiet environment, play each file whilst using the EQ to try and get them all similar level.
In my opinion, just because you can't hear something by tone test doesn't mean you don't sense it.
That is to say, just because your brain doesn't know how to interpret it, doesn't mean you don't sense it. (maybe as 'air' or an an obscure adjective)
Just an impression I have, so even if someone told me it's a false claim I doubt I'd care.
-
I'm not going to get sucked in to your immature flame war.
Umm, yeah. You realized you could have stopped 15 posts ago.
Wow! What egos Marvey & Anaxilus have!
Clearly, you revert to abuse, aggression, insults, threats and false claims when someone here doesn't resonate with your opinions.
Agreed, we could have been nicer to you. My ego gets really pissed with the following:
1) Pretending that your post was a huge sacrifice of your time and resources and attacking people for no reason. You veered off course with this: "I took a significant amount of time to donate some audio expertise to help those who aren't yet audio snobs (anaxilus)." You set the tone the thread was going to take.
2) Passive aggressive rhetorical techniques, i.e. suggesting you won't get involved with flame wars when you yourself play a large part in fanning the flames; saying you don't want to enter debates about tube amps and then proceeding to make your argument; framing your observations as authoritative, yet now claiming that they were in fact simply "opinions" that Anax and I disagree with.
3) Talking about things you lack experience in and then making broad assertions (tube amps sound slow with transient response issues, effects of cables, etc.); and then citing your accomplishments and credentials as if you were some sort of expert. Why do I strongly suspect you have never heard a tube amp? Even a "distorted" tube amp.
4) Not knowing WTF are you talking about - spreading misinformation - which is different from opinion: shortening your stock HD800 cable which is a waste of time; and suggesting EQ to HD800 to increase top octave (there's already slightly too much air) and pushing down a large swatch of upper mids (which is the reverse of what should be done with the exception of the 6k trouble spot). This EQ scheme based on your not understanding that our perception of loudness is not linear. (Again, Fletcher-Munson, ISO). In other words, your suggestions would make the HD800 sound even more shitty.
5) Advertising your business Elmura Audio without first asking.
6) Having the gaul to report zdfx's post, after you have already fanned the flames.
7) Playing victim.
Opinions are great. Different opinions are respected here. If you framed what you said as an opinion, everyone would have been fine with it. But you came in, derided Anaxilus, acted like an authority listing all your credentials, and on top of that, you offered people wrong advice. All made worse by the fact that you did not introduce yourself or fill in your profile so any of us would have a clue what perspective you were coming from. What did you think was going to happen to you? Hugs and kisses?
This is what I think. I don't think that you came in with good intentions. I think you came in to troll.
-
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/184971_191072500924689_216823_n.jpg?oh=1bc636e82f8803c295f952fa81995153&oe=551C5A75&__gda__=1427783934_6ab4793a4654ec05dcdbe65a3ad98582)
Dude, cut holes in the wall and fish the wires through.
-
Mmmm... did not pay attention at that Elmura Audio stuffs. Not good.
Like I said at IF Elmura, take a little bit of time off and avoid further confrontation. Take it easy, sip some margaritas or a few beers and let it go.
-
Just for the record, you do better HT AV work than Elmura.
-
hello,
just taking some time out from my very arduous day (had to spend 40 minutes putting supper together in the crock pot, six hours before serving) to join into this little love fest.
i'm a joker, i'm a smoker, i'm a midnight toker (which obviously means my expertise exceeds everyone else on this forum.)
making personal attacks is just being a dick.
(i hate to say this...)
please, just ban Elmura so we can get back to agreeing to disagree.
(the pix on FB seem to show some VERY poor work.)
-
Wow! What egos Marvey & Anaxilus have!
Clearly, you revert to abuse, aggression, insults, threats and false claims when someone here doesn't resonate with your opinions.
I'm not going to get sucked in to your immature flame war.
right after my post come on m8 fuck off
also thanks marv (anax? who doles this stuff out?) for neg karma :~)
-
LOL. I only give + karma. methinks Elmura gave you a thumbs down.
-
Wow I feel stupid, I haven't even found the thumbs down button :)p8
edit: I'm guessing that's report?
-
oh it's the [smite] button. I have no idea who smited me so many times either. Wear the smites with pride.
-
<Insert ugly bird watching picture here>
That's it! I'm locking this thread for a while so folks can cool off. I'll delete a bunch of post I didn't like and leave the rest out of context...
I keed! Not gonna happen. )(
-
Thanks for the negative karma, Elmura. :-*
You can run naked backward through a field of dicks.
-
Wow I feel stupid, I haven't even found the thumbs down button :)p8
edit: I'm guessing that's report?
Nope . the [applaud] [smite] buttons appear when you have more thant 50 posts I guess.
-
Thanks for the negative karma, Elmura. :-*
You can run naked backward through a field of dicks.
MP, for all we know, it might be his/her fancy ... :P
-
This thread is fun. Where is Elmura? popcorn poo
-
Yeah, karma kontrol only shows up after 50 posts, I thought.
Either way, the cable mod has me thinking about my experience with a beetle in the lab where I work. Similar to the way you tested all the cables under $400 before cutting your cable in half, I've had quite a lot of experience with acetone and cockroaches. See, if you find a cockroach, you can spray acetone on it -- no -- NEAR it, and it will almost instantly die. Maybe it dehydrates their body or maybe they simply can't breath the fumes. I don't know. I'm not a cockroach. Nevertheless, I've made a little game with the roaches whenever I find them. Maybe I'll scare one onto a hill and poor acetone above him and watch him run. Maybe I'll spray him in the face. Maybe I'm so taken aback that I stomp on one and spray acetone on him for good measure. I'm getting away from the point; if you were paying attention you would have noticed I mentioned a beetle, not a cockroach. I came across a large beetle in the lab the other day and immediately knew how it needed to be vanquished. I giddily (<-great adverb) jumped up to find a bottle of acetone. I was so excited, I can only assume it's how one would feel taking a hacksaw to a silver plated copper headphone cable. As soon as I made my way back to the beetle, I grabbed the attention of a coworker, "Donny, check this shit out." They I sprayed. The beetle shook it off and kept walking. I sprayed again. Still, the beetle seemed shortly stunned before continuing on its journey across the lab room floor. You can imagine my disappointment, after all I have Donny to impress. Several sprays later I come to the conclusion that this beetle is nothing like a cockroach. At all. I finally resort to squashing him.
See, unlike the undoubtedly large sample size of cables you had at your disposal, I only had experience with one kind of bug.
-
This thread shows clearly that while Changstar has potential to be a really good site, it's not gonna be fullfilled as long as assholes like Anaxilus and some others are free to spread their BS opinions and arrogance around.
Bashing Elmura for giving you a minus karma and posting infantile jokes to make fun of him is ridiculous... He clearly has no chance of Smiting with 15 posts and he also did at least something useful instead of promising something for years with no result (HD800 Anax 3.0 mod,ehm ehm).
I appreciate people like purrin or ultrabike who are not yet lost in their arrogancy and myopia... Too bad there are not that many people like them here. I hope Changstar will find them and mature into something deserving full respect.
-
Wow, that's embarassing. :)p13 Sup, Elmura, not suspicious at all. This board isn't so big that a newly registered poster out of nowhere goes unnoticed.
-
Nope . the [applaud] [smite] buttons appear when you have more thant 50 posts I guess.
I see, that's why I'm lost. Thanks!
-
Too bad there are not that many people like them here.
Thanks JX. Nice to meet you too.
-
Hello JX welcome to Changstar.
-
(HD800 Anax 3.0 mod,ehm ehm).
I totally agree Elmura!!!!
;)
-
oh it's the [smite] button. I have no idea who smited me so many times either. Wear the smites with pride.
K, gave you one more so you're at an even 10 now. Just trying to help.
You can return the favor if you'd like, I'm feeling a bit overly loved. I'm not that good a guy.
-
This thread shows clearly that while Changstar has potential to be a really good site, it's not gonna be fullfilled as long as assholes like Anaxilus and some others are free to spread their BS opinions and arrogance around.
Bashing Elmura for giving you a minus karma and posting infantile jokes to make fun of him is ridiculous... He clearly has no chance of Smiting with 15 posts and he also did at least something useful instead of promising something for years with no result (HD800 Anax 3.0 mod,ehm ehm).
I appreciate people like purrin or ultrabike who are not yet lost in their arrogancy and myopia... Too bad there are not that many people like them here. I hope Changstar will find them and mature into something deserving full respect.
Yeah Anax! WTF?! Why haven't you released it?! walk the plank
Haven't people given you tons of money for it?! Oh wait...did you sign a contract saying you were required to release it?! :-Z
-
This place is so evil. walk the plank
-
You can return the favor if you'd like, I'm feeling a bit overly loved. I'm not that good a guy.
I like to be useful for such an important man of headphone world. I gave you one smite. :D
-
Ahhh, I feel so much better now. A little dirt and impurity make me feel much more at home.
-
Ahhh, I feel so much better now. A little dirt and impurity make me feel much more at home.
Could you please make me the same favor and autograph it . It's not for me, it's for my granny in France . She's a long time fan of your shirts headbang
-
The thing that really bugs me is how different (better IMO) the ST single-mode fiber sounds, considering that they are still carrying SPDIF over it.
-
Thanks JX. Nice to meet you too.
For some reason since far as I remember after being in changstar, every time I look at your avatar I just want to pet it. Don't know why. Just do.
-
This thread shows clearly that while Changstar has potential to be a really good site, it's not gonna be fullfilled ... I hope Changstar will find them and mature into something deserving full respect.
I know, I know. Doubtful though. We're just too nutty to be respectable. This place will always be a niche within a niche. There's a ridiculousness to human existence and especially this hobby which I think most Changstarian Pyrates understand. Attempting to garner more respectability by being outwardly more respectful to "the world" would violate this view. It also wouldn't be as fun since we'd all have to "act" all proper and stuff. The pyrate outlook of this site runs deeper than most outsiders suspect.
Virtually tarring and feathering some idiot before throwing him overboard is not cool, whether the idiot deserves it or not. In fact, such an action is incredibly mean. But yet strangely enough, this action also happens to be very compassionate toward fellow Changstarian Pyrates and lurkers who appreciate the high signal-to-noise ratio and treasure trove of good information. As one poster suggested: "Enough! Ban him and let's get back to agreeing to disagree".
Changstar is good because it isn't all that respectable. Changstar is also bad because it isn't all that respectable. Eliminating the bad will also eliminate the good. We are staying the way we are because otherwise, Changstar will just turn into another Head-Fi.
P.S. I don't think Anaxilus threw the first punch. The "Oh boy, a hydrogen audio troll." was more like an Ambassador Kosh query to test his suitability for this site. I mean, the writing was already on the wall with Elmura's second post. How do you think pyrates would have dealt with some idiot who got on their ship and then proceeded to declare his self-importance?
-
Elmura, "JX" (if that IS your reeeeeaaallll name!):
This isn't your forum; you're newcomers/outsiders. Why presume to be able to tell its mods or founders how it should run?
Go away.
-
Ahhh, I feel so much better now. A little dirt and impurity make me feel much more at home.
Tyll, ship me one of those shirts that you wear and I'll give you two smites !! :)p13
-
Tyll, ship me one of those shirts that you wear and I'll give you two smites !! :)p13
Cat shirts are waaaay better man. I own like several cat shirts.
-
EVERYONE!
Can we please get back on topic? OP says the peaks & pains in 6k range diminish when he pushes his HD800 forward so that the backs of the earcups just touch the backs of his ears. I have had not the exact same experience, maybe even something slightly contrary: I like the way it sounds when I push my DT880 so they are centered perfectly over my ears. Therefore, I have no choice but to call bullshit, and recommend everyone pony-up and upgrade their O2+ODAC with custom faceplates.
On a related, but more serious, note:
I have calmed back down.
-
TRYING.... SO.... HARD..... NOT..... TO START DICK SLAPPING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE!
Also, good one MF. "Backwards through a field of dicks". Gotta start using that one.