CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Hands on August 24, 2014, 08:42:05 PM
-
I’ve wanted to do a full Alpha Dog review for a while, and now that my pair has had some work done on it to better balance the channels and I’ve had plenty of time to listen and experiment with them, I think I am ready to do so. I believe the other threads and measurements on this site were based on older revisions of the Alpha Dog. I felt it might be appropriate to differentiate the two a bit by separating threads. My pair came with two of the damping “dots” applied to the front side of each driver and the felt damping discs for additional tuning. My main review and analysis will be done without using any of the felt discs, and I’ll provide results of further tests in my second post.
Presentation, Looks, Features, Comfort, Etc.
Presentation and looks are obvious highlights of the Alpha Dog. The cups look great and are beautifully painted. The new baffles work well and allow the pads to more seamlessly integrate with the entire headphone. Little touches like the black slider bars go a long way in making this feel like a premium product. And everything feels very sturdy and well put together, including the somewhat microphonic cable.
Also included are some basic accessories, such as a microfiber cloth, a hex key to tune the vents, and a headphone stand. I know many have complained about the height and size of the headphone stand, but given its historical roots in needing to fit a medium-sized, priority mail USPS box, I think it works well. For me, I have no problems with unplugging the cable and storing it in the middle section of the stand, though now that Dan has switched to other shipping providers, perhaps the height of the stand will be adjusted in the future. I thought it was a nice touch and don’t see much of a reason to fuss over it.
Speaking of the hex key, the tuning options available to the Alpha Dog are quite nice. If you find the sound to be too heavy or lacking in the bass, you can adjust the tuning vents with the included hex key (more on this in my second post). However, this does come with a disclaimer warning against tuning multiple times (only once is recommended) and that MrSpeakers/Dan won’t be liable for any damage you cause. I believe you can get them re-tuned for a fee if you mess them up. Personally, unless you have really good ears or measurement equipment to verify tunings, I’m not sure how much I’d recommend this.
Comfort is quite good on the Alpha Dog. Assuming the leather headband strap is adjusted to act more like a suspension headband (you may need to shorten it a bit on your own for this), it evenly distributes weight across the head. Clamping force is rather light, and the alpha pads are, as always, very comfortable. The Alpha Dog can get a bit heavy for long listening sessions, but it’s not at the level of some of the heavier orthos.
The packaging itself is rather modest, but it is efficient and gets the job done well. It at least matches the red and black colour schemes. Overall, I give the Alpha Dog high marks in the non-sound related categories. Perhaps the cable could be less microphonic, and perhaps the headphone stand could be taller, but I don’t think it’s worth worrying about.
Sound
It’s no secret that I was not a fan of the early Alpha Dog iteration I heard. I simply found them too uneven, peaky, and exaggerated in the treble. There was potential, but I just did not think the Alpha Dog was ready for launch in that state, nice looking paint or not. You are welcome to disagree with me on that point. With the new damping “dots” and felt discs available, with most or all Alpha Dogs shipping default with one or two “dots” per channel now, I was pretty eager to check them out again. Whether or not any other internal changes have been made, I cannot say for sure.
The new damping tweaks certainly make a positive difference, in my opinion. Treble response is smoothed out and less harsh on the ears. If one desires an even darker, smoother sound, they can use the felt damping discs. For this review, I stuck to listening without felt discs and relied on the two “dots” per channel.
The Alpha Dog can be a bit difficult to adequately describe from a sound perspective at times. In most situations, it has a fairly neutral sound with some caveats. It does seem to have an inherent sort of hard or even slightly glaring aspect to the sound, most noticeable in how the upper mids and treble are presented. That’s not necessarily to say the Alpha Dog is a bright headphone, though it can subjectively be a touch bright at times. It’s not necessarily a problem with the frequency balance, resonance/ringing, or distortion. It’s actually quite hard to pin down, so I’ll just say the sound can be a bit fatiguing at times for reasons that aren’t always perfectly explainable. The tonality and timbre lean towards sounding a bit hard and artificial. Thankfully, there are tuning options to mitigate this, and given I am more on the sensitive side of the hearing spectrum, I doubt most will find this problematic or hear it at all. (Personally, one felt disc added per channel goes a long way for my ears, though many of the traits, positive or negative, still shine through.)
The next thing that jumps out about the Alpha Dog is the bass. It is a fairly bassy sounding headphone, though not necessarily thick sounding. If anything, the elevated bass feels a bit disconnected from the rest of the sound. This is immediately apparent against other headphones with a flatter, more linear bass response. However, I think it is done tastefully, and it has a nice sense of impact, presence, and rumble without overdoing it. Decently clean, detailed, and textured. It’s just odd that, for being relatively neutral in most regards, the Alpha Dog does have some extra bass. Take that as you will. If you don’t like it, you can simply adjust the tuning vents. (I have since adjusted the vents for a more neutral sound, and this does work well.)
Some smaller aspects I noticed were a slightly cupped or honky sound to the Alpha Dog and a very slight lack of cohesiveness and clarity across the spectrum compared to some other headphones. I want to emphasize that this was all very slight and not something you would likely notice unless doing direct comparisons against other headphones. Some of this also comes down to getting a good fit/seal and letting the pads warm up a bit on your head. Truthfully, there are very few, if any, headphones that sound perfect to my ears in this regard, so I don’t really think any less of the Alpha Dog for it.
For some strengths, the Alpha Dog does sound fairly “open” for a closed headphone. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it to really open, airy sounding headphones, but it does very well for being closed. It does a decent job with layering and picking out subtle, low-level details. There is a nice balance between sounding not too intimate and not too distant. Plenty of presence to the sound and a decent sense of room space and reverberations.
In summary, the Alpha Dog is a bassy-neutral headphone with a slightly hard and artificial tonality that I suspect most won’t mind or notice. If anything, I could see a lot of people liking that. I’d just like to hear a bit more refinement, which is likely not entirely solvable with front damping tweaks. I don’t think it particularly excels in any area of sound. However, given that it does well enough and, perhaps one of the best things about the Alpha Dog, has a few routes one can take to tune the sound to their liking, I also don’t have issues recommending it. Those willing to further experiment with other front damping schemes will likely find room for improvement. I think a lot of people will like the Alpha Dog quite a bit, though whether or not it’s the best, closed headphone option in this price range is something I’m not entirely sold on. I’ll need to do more investigation before saying one way or another. At the very least, the Alpha Dog's imperfections aren't too out of scope relative to something like the HE-500, which I also don't find quite perfect (not saying they do things similarly well or poorly, just that the scope is roughly on par).
Measurements
As always, lengthy, subjective listening sessions always take place before measurements.
The frequency response results are quite telling. From above 200Hz on up, the Alpha Dog does have a fairly neutral and somewhat flat sound. I do see some emphasis around 5-6KHz, at least on the left channel, and the treble quality overall isn’t the smoothest. Subjectively, I think the treble is more filled in and cohesive sounding than measurements indicate, though it isn’t perfectly smooth to my ears. Early measurements I did before sending them in for repairs might have had less of a dip in the treble. Relative to the 1KHz point, the bass response is certainly elevated below 100Hz by roughly 5-6dB. Ideally, I’d like to see less bass and a smoother transition leading up to the 200Hz point. I think this was the root cause of the disconnected sound I heard.
Harmonic distortion results look OK, but not stellar (generally fairly low but quite rough looking). The T50RP driver seems to have limitations here. There is some extra HD in the bass, but it’s not terrible. This might account for the slightly rumbly, tactile nature of the bass. The right channel exhibits some particularly odd looking harmonic distortion results. I’m not entirely sure what’s going on here. My Alpha Dog pre-channel balance work had better looking THD results, though I did not publicly publish most of my test results. Either way, I’m not too worried about it so long as I don’t hear any glaring faults. Again, the T50RP driver certainly has some limitations.
Oh, and CSDs are fairly clean.
Coming up are some test results regarding the damping “dots” and felt discs.
-
Attached are some quick measurements to help show what some of these tuning options bring to the table (1 take, no average, all left channel from left ear, not perfectly calibrated to 90dB at 1KHz, etc.).
1. AD left channel "reference" measurement (to compare with the other attachments)
2. AD response with 1 felt disc - primarily helps knock down the 5-6KHz area a bit
3. CSD with 1 felt disc - Still clean, the ringing in upper treble is probably just a measurement artifact
4. AD response with 2 felt discs - noticeably smooths and slightly depresses the treble response
5. CSD with 2 felt discs - Just a bit cleaner than before
6. AD response with the vent much more closed than before. Primarily lowers bass response, but also seems it might affect the upper treble response around 10KHz as well.
7. AD response with vent more closed and without damping "dots." This gets pretty nasty in the treble. Also seems to affect the 100Hz-1KHz area.
Subjectively, I think the Alpha Dogs sound pretty good with the vent tuned for less bass and the dots + 1 felt disc in place. Not a whole lot for me to complain about when I configure them like that (no measurements for that, sorry). The dots do seem to do much more good than bad, though I bet there is room for improvement with other front damping tweaks. 2 felt discs is a bit much for my ears...makes them too veiled and stuffy sounding. 1 disc seems to complement the sound, though some of the more negative characteristics I mentioned are still a bit present (largely mitigated, but not completely). I like the ability to tweak the sound to my liking, and while the Alpha Dog can be made to sound quite good, it's still not perfect and could use further refinement.
-
Hi Hans, thanks. I was looking at the AD, but the "hard and artificial" sound you heard was what turned me off to it.
-
Great review, as always :)p1
-
Thanks! And Kunlun, did you actually get to try a pair, or are you going off what some have said? If the latter, you might actually like them. I think with front damping tweaks, either via the included dots/felt discs or your own solution, they can be made to sound quite good. To the point where it's pretty easy to sink into their sound and things like their slightly hard nature only really become apparent next to more organic sounding headphones. If I'm OK with it, I assume most others will be, given how picky I seem to be about that stuff. Even with all that, I could see people preferring the AD's presentation. There is a lot to like about the AD and a few things that could be refined.
-
Hi Hans,
I did try the AD at a NY meet. However, it was before the dots and discs came out. I heard it just as you described the treble and I guess I'm equally sensitive to it. That's part of why I appreciate your review.
I'd like a set of closed headphones as I had an ear infection two or three years back and had to go without iems for a week or two. The AD weren't quite what I needed.
-
Hm, hard to say. You might like the sound now with the new tweaks. You might not. I couldn't really listen to them originally...painful to my ears. The tweaks go a long way, assuming that's all that has changed since the AD launch. I should have a ZMFxVibro review up within a week or so if you're still looking for something in that ballpark. Paradox is always a good option too.
-
So Hans, this is a new revised version of the Alpha Dogs? Different from what I heard initially (as as measured by ultra)?
-
Looks like Ultra measured them back in November, which, if I'm remembering timelines correctly, at least means the new damping "dots" weren't installed by default (or even a thing), nor were the felt discs available. Small changes or not, the difference in sound is quite noticeable. I'm not sure if any internal revisions have taken place since earlier units, but I think the sticker on my headband notes a higher revision number vs. what I saw on the tour AD. I could very well have bad/false memory,or any revision number changes could purely be due to the new damping dots and discs.
Either way, worth checking out if you haven't heard them recently with the new tweaks. Get a pair that isn't too bass heavy, or adjust it yourself, and use the felt discs to your liking, and they can sound pretty good. Also, some pairs might be smoother up top and/or have less THD oddities, not that I consider my pair to be subjectively problematic with distortion. I was getting slightly different results before having the channel imbalances fixed. All comes down to T50RP driver and other AD manufacturing variances.
-
Got it. Same thing but just the kits... BTW, I've put damping dots and two-three layers. Still too much of a hard edge / glare for my tastes and the layers of felt seem to take away too much.
-
Gotcha. I think part of it comes down to the choice of the front damping foam Dan uses. Before sending them in for quick repairs, I was experimenting with an Anax-style front damping config with other, supplemental disc materials, namely open-cell foams. Subjectively, I thought this helped them out a bit with reducing that glare, but I didn't spend a lot of time with it to say that definitively. I think there is some potential if one wants to make the effort, though it does appear difficult to smooth the 5-6KHz bump without affecting the surrounding areas as well.
-
I was going through the tweaks and it seems there are a bit of different dot versions: "The black outer ring was the original design. We did make a switch to white when we added a wall to surround the foam"
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones/7800#post_10809601
According to Dan it was "mostly for cosmetic reasons". Are there any SQ variations due to different tweaks to the tweaks?
There are also some reports on tweak geometry variations:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones/7815#post_10817560
According to Dan, tweak size "xyz dimensional size is a minor variable" and it "doesn't change the sound", which is a bit counter-intuitive.
Seems like a lot of variables to me...
BTW, I also heard the treated AD at the LA meet and thought it was OK. It does seem to get a bit warmer with the version of the tweaks it used, but IMO some detail extraction was lost.
-
Apparently the tuning vents on the outside of my cups were close to the edge of within specification (the cutout where you can see the tuning screw). Dan drilled them out a bit and was able to fix the channel imbalances that way for me. I know the T50RP drivers, at least in mods like this, can be pretty picky about venting.
While this was no biggie in my mind (sent it in, free fix, pretty easy), this does create further variables due to slight variances in 3D printing and/or application of finish and paint.
In most cases, I don't think these small variances will lead to much in terms of audible differences from AD to AD, especially for less discerning listeners. But, with all that and the T50RP drivers themselves, it does open the possibility for some pairs sounding a bit better overall than others. If someone really wanted to improve the sound, though, it would probably be more productive to focus on actual damping configurations and such. From just an enclosure/housing design perspective, I think the AD has a lot going for it.
-
For users knowledgeable and eager to perform mods, these things may not be a problem.
For the perhaps more general public which just wants something that sounds great w/o further ado, and expecting a particular signature, these variations might be problematic.
I think the tweaks are a good idea (though perhaps not tweaks to the tweaks). However, I personally feel the performance variations in the stock product should be kept to a minimum as much as possible to avoid the "box of chocolates" effect.
-
To be fair, I do think performance variations are probably pretty minimal, but my pair is proof they can exist even at very minor degrees due to the many variables discussed. Those channel imbalances I mentioned were actually rather slight in the grand scheme of things (hard to measure, though I think this was in the realm of things that measurements couldn't capture well due to other T50RP mod + venting measurements I've tried), it sounded pretty much like the tour unit I tried with tweaks, and I've seen worse in reputable brands. I noticed it, but I'm not sure the general public would. Plus, Tyll's AD measurements make me think the products are relatively consistent within Dan's set specs, so I don't want to make it sound like it's a crapshoot when you buy an AD. I'm assuming they all sound pretty much the same if using the same configuration...just a tiny bit of wiggle room for some pairs to be better or worse overall, but we're probably the only people that would care much! (I wish I had taken better/more measurements of the AD when I first got it in to do a hard comparison of how something like drilling out the vent might affect the sound.)
-
When I tried the Alphas on my woodied T50RPs, I found that bass elevation (at least part of it) and 8kHz dip result from the use of Alpha pads. This is what I find negative. But the Alphas also elevated the response around 2-5kHz somewhat, which is desirable.
-
When I tried the AD for the first time we had a pretty good conversation with Dan about consistency of ribbon-planar drivers. It's a well known fact that this type of driver is the most difficult to manufacture with consistent characteristics due to the inevitable variations in their magnetic properties. Knowing all of this well I wasn't surprised Dan wanted me to listen to a particular one of his sets stating it was fairly close to the reference one he keeps in the office.
Overall I don't have a problem with this, everyone wants to demo their best but the thing is variations between these drivers can be quite dramatic especially affecting upper high and lower frequency ranges to the point of one set sounding grainy up top and the other overblown on the bottom.
In the end this becomes a major problem when general public start reading opinions of Purr1n or Hans on aforementioned Alpha Dogs or what LFF and Tyll think of PM1s. I think with these drivers reviewers should get couple of sets anonymously and this would be the only right way to determine the truth. Otherwise everyone will just think Purr1n, LFF, Hans, Tyll etc all have ear problems which only becomes apparent when they evaluate planars.
This is something I realized after dealing with six different sets of OPPOs I listened and measured but I will continue my thoughts in one of the OPPO threads.
-
I wonder if this is why the demo sent to purrin doesn't sound as good as the demo set at the table from the Bay area meet. So what we need are about 4-6 different PM1s to measure for potential driver variation. Did you try swapping pads on your sample set to rule out pad variation?
-
Same types of pads from different sets all measure the same on one driver, so the variation in pad quality is out. Though all the different pads measure different on one driver (four different types that I have).
-
Gotcha. So there are possibly golden samples out there and not so golden samples. Sounds strangely familiar...
-
In the context of the T50RP mods, there is significant measurement variation even between the left and right channels within one headphone. T50RP tolerances are not tight - as would be expected for a cheap headphone. The good thing is that the T50RP mods I've heard have always been consistent on a subjective basis. The Mad Dogs, Alphas (provided they were the same revision), the Paradox, Slants, etc.
The various Alphas I've heard were at meets from Dan, Greed's, a few other random people, etc. They more or less sounded the same or close enough to me. There are two peaks, one at 6kHz and one at 10kHz. They are there, but are not bad on measurements. But from my subjective POV - sounded worse than what the measurements said. I almost positive the "hardness" or "glare" is from those 3D printed cups. Those cups either resonant or bounce back sound with a certain coloration.
In the case of the PM-1/2s, there's been so much development and I may have listened to some non-beta models / pads. Probably best to let the dust settle.
-
Yup, exactly that.
-
Subjective listening is one thing, measurement is another. It is very difficult to notice channel disbalance unless it's too extreme and even then you absolutely need to listen to a particular set with familiar reference content while directly comparing with the other set in question. Otherwise it will be as you say "close enough". I am sure all the modders pay close attention to matching their drivers but big manufacturers is the whole another story. There you have a low pay girls trying to get more production volume and probably an engineer whose only job is to pick perfect pairs for reviewers.
-
It does seem to have an inherent sort of hard or even slightly glaring aspect to the sound, most noticeable in how the upper mids and treble are presented.
Thank you very much for review! I have similar experience with my pair. While I enjoy AD for its SQ (it is first expensive headphone for me and quite a step up) - resolution and clarity - I also can get fatigued, and did wonder if the slight dry nature is due to AD or Fiio amp. I do use version with dots installed.
The other planar I have little experience in is HE400 - and on both I kind of like bass presentation (although different in quantity). I was thinking about 400i or PM2 for more relaxing or organic treble and keep aspects of planar SQ. It seem some people often have trouble with treble.
Do AD, 400i PM2 share some qualities or are they to different?
-
Can't speak for the 400i (though Marv's measurements look kinda...meh), but the PM2 and AD are completely different. The AD is quite bassy, though tunable, and fairly neutral otherwise with a bit of glare to the sound. The PM2 has flatter bass, but it can be a bit weak, ethereal, or "limp-dick" sounding. The PM-2 is overall more laid-back and perhaps more natural sounding than the AD, but I also found it to have its own sort of rough quality to the treble that may or may not annoy some (likely just my ears). And it does have some noticeable information "missing" in the upper mids and treble.
Personally, I think the HD600 and HD650 are better than either of the two. More balanced overall.
You might also be interested in my upcoming ZMFxVibro review. My review has been delayed quite a few times, but things are in progress between Zach and me. The ZMFxVibro has a bass boost not unlike the AD but with an overall slightly darker and certainly more organic response. It also has tunable bass, though not to the extent of the AD. Once you dial that in how you like it, I found the ZMFxVibro to be a more enjoyable listen than the AD or PM2...maybe even preferred over the Senns as well. Still have listening and tests to do...we'll see. So far I find them encouraging.
-
I would consider headphones other than HE-400i if what you want is relaxo laid back. Maybe HD650, Paradox Slant, Mad Dogs, PM2 (maybe with PM1 pads), LCD2.2. I'd be happy to give you a succinct comparo summary of those five headphones if you would like.
-
I dunno if it's just my pair, my ears, or what, but my Mad Dog 3.2 is pretty peaky and sharp in the treble (not sure about Pro, which might incorporate the new dot and felt tweaks). Not exactly what I'd call relaxing or laid back. I got used to it early and never noticed until comparing with other headphones later on, plus my ears have gotten better since then. I have since had to apply front damping in order to listen to my MD comfortably. (My pair was 3.0 when you measured them, I believe.)
PM1 or PM2 with PM1 pads are pretty darn laid-back...hit some good spots for me, though were sometimes too boring. But, seriously, if you're looking for AD but more organic, bit more lush, and more laid-back, do consider the ZMFxVibro as well. I'll be resuming the tour fairly soon and encourage established members to give them a shot...just gotta take care of some things and get a full review in, hoping to do so within a week.
Haven't heard the LCD2 but would really like to some day.
-
I would consider headphones other than HE-400i if what you want is relaxo laid back. Maybe HD650, Paradox Slant, Mad Dogs, PM2 (maybe with PM1 pads), LCD2.2. I'd be happy to give you a succinct comparo summary of those five headphones if you would like.
Thank you. That would be great, but I am not interested in MD or LCD. PM2 has a great benefit being light.
I was trying to find some info on Paradox site, but it is pretty poor in that regard. Do all the sound differences between different fostex mod come from cups and pads?
-
I would consider headphones other than HE-400i if what you want is relaxo laid back. Maybe HD650, Paradox Slant, Mad Dogs, PM2 (maybe with PM1 pads), LCD2.2. I'd be happy to give you a succinct comparo summary of those five headphones if you would like.
Curious about the Slant. Have had the 2.2 and the 400. For rock, I have read that the Mad Dogs and Alpha Dogs sound lean. So what say you?
-
Mad Dogs are laid back like LCD2. See measurements on this site. Alpha Dogs are neutralish, but with hardness and glare in lower treble.
Slants are slightly less laid back compared to LCD2. Less thick bass. A tiny more at 10khz in the definition region. LCD2 has better quality sub/low bass, but Slants have overall better timbre. I don't talk about Slants much because Luis is a friend, but honestly the Slants are my favorite ortho at $700. Send Luis a PM or give him a call. He only builds to order.
-
Could you share a really short comparison with 400i, AD and PM2? None of these are available for test here. I just have to order and test and sell ;)
Maybe I should also try to soften ADs with different amp setup.
-
Well what headphones do you like and what do you like about them? That helps me get perspective of where you are coming from.
AD: Really agile and detailed sounding. Overall neutralish. I really really want to like them, but the hardness and slight glare always creep in and bother me. The dog treat kits do tame the issue, but leaves other undesirable properties. Successive layers of felt over the driver is not the answer.
400i: Kind of a funky FR. Warmish with the bass with a spot lit mid-treble emphasis. Recording dependent. Good price. Need to do some more investigation to see if I got a bum unit.
PM2: Rather nice esp with the alt-pads. Needs low output impedance and good power not to sound soft.
-
Yeah, maybe I don't have amps to optimize the PM-2, but I think it's pretty underwhelming compared to the HD600 (which, even the latter isn't being run from the best amp). I mean...it's not bad...it just sounds disappointing when I do direct comparisons. But it has its strengths, for sure.
-
I remember Marv and myself had this little talk about the PM1/PM2 vs. the HD600 at the LA meet. I asked him, what does the Oppo really do better than the HD600? Why would I want to keep it? I'm not sure how he responded exactly but basically it all boiled down to consistency. You can plug the PM1/PM2 into anything and get consistent results. It's gonna sound pretty good regardless of upstream gear, music preferences, SPL preferences, listening outdoors, whatever. Yeah, it's gonna scale a bit in terms of authority if you drive it off a transformer coupled DHT. But you can also plug it into an iPod with 192kb/s MP3s and enjoy the music. The HD600 is not like that at all in my view. Plug the HD600 into a 445 and it's a whole different ballgame. It needs good amplification to 1) open up the soundstage, 2) get cleaner bass performance and 3) gain that clarity and speshal inner-detail/microdynamics/microkrill/whatever you want to call it. IMO any above average amp gets you #1. #2 seems to happen when you drive it off a good transformer coupled amp. #3 is a more elusive quality that comes with speshal toobs and a highly resolving D/A. I'm getting away from the point though. None of this shit is even an issue with the Oppos. It just makes sound consistently. It's going to deliver its Oppo sound no matter what you do. In summary, although it doesn't scale, it does deliver consistent results.
And while that can be seen as a negative trait, I don't think that's fair on the PM1/PM2 for what it really offers. Imagine you're someone who just wants a good headphone listening experience around the house. You're an upper-middle class professional type so you have a fair bit of cash to spend and you want something that isn't cheap looking and will last you a while. You don't want to deal with all these fucking extra boxes that these nutjob audiophiles recommend. You just want to plug the headphone into your Macbook and listen to YouTube music, then go watch a movie and plug it into your AV receiver, then step outside on the patio and plug it into your little iPad while you play fucking words with friends. And the PM1/PM2 is pretty much perfect for that. It's gonna blend well with your Ikea furniture and your girlfriend won't find it offensive. And y'know it's gonna sound pretty damn good. Better than any equivalent you can find on the market that I'm aware of. That's what the PM1/PM2 is meant for. I'd heartily recommend it to anyone who is after that sort of user experience. It's pretty damn good for what it is.
-
Mad Dogs are laid back like LCD2. See measurements on this site. Alpha Dogs are neutralish, but with hardness and glare in lower treble.
Slants are slightly less laid back compared to LCD2. Less thick bass. A tiny more at 10khz in the definition region. LCD2 has better quality sub/low bass, but Slants have overall better timbre. I don't talk about Slants much because Luis is a friend, but honestly the Slants are my favorite ortho at $700. Send Luis a PM or give him a call. He only builds to order.
Thanks Marv. its an effing shame we cannot demo these things where I am.
-
AD: Really agile and detailed sounding. Overall neutralish. I really really want to like them, but the hardness and slight glare always creep in and bother me.
I feel spot on the same. So I guess it is not a trait of my amp (fiio e07k/e09k). It is music/record dependent, but it is there about 50 percent from my experience.
I don't have much experience with exotic headphones. Chances to demo here are bad. I have fidelio x1 for a year and it is fine, but I want to have something with a bit less recessed mids and a bit less bass heavy. AD are close, but maybe to clean and revealing. Clean bass is great, but I am not so crazy on mids because of mentioned glare. It would be grate if I would find headphones tilted towards classical and vocal music, but would be all rounder if needed. I do help with EQ for that, so there is a bit of room there.
I can order 400i here, but not to demo. PM I must find online, because in Europe prices are crazy. I was thinking about he500, but ADs are already to heavy for me.
Thank you for your effort.
-
Mad Dogs are laid back like LCD2. See measurements on this site. Alpha Dogs are neutralish, but with hardness and glare in lower treble.
Slants are slightly less laid back compared to LCD2. Less thick bass. A tiny more at 10khz in the definition region. LCD2 has better quality sub/low bass, but Slants have overall better timbre. I don't talk about Slants much because Luis is a friend, but honestly the Slants are my favorite ortho at $700. Send Luis a PM or give him a call. He only builds to order.
Just ordered one :)
-
You can probably find a better front damping solution to reduce the glare on the AD. I just am finding myself lacking time to experiment with it as much as I wanted.
As for the PM-2, I put them on a couple days ago after taking a break from them, and they sounded more disappointing than I remember (keeping in mind I was one of the few to say positive things about the PM-1). They really only excel at looks, build quality, and the ability to run well from about anything. Sound is OK, but not what I'd call great. It does a few things a bit better than a stock HD600 (I don't have a super duper amp for the HD600), but not much.
-
Huh, tweaking is not my thing. I tend to break things. Even my audiophilea happens just every 7 years. I am in relapse now ;)
Well PM2 are probably off anyway ... to expensive in EU and I really don't loose much money. I got AD second hand, and can sell them with no loss.
Well, thanks and good luck!
-
PM2: Rather nice esp with the alt-pads. Needs low output impedance and good power not to sound soft.
Is the PM2 that sensitive to output impedance? Generally orthos aren't. How high of an output impedance does it take to make them go soft?
-
The Alpha Dog Prime is finally out ! :wheel:
Exactly same desgin, but they modified the T50RP driver ! I'm really curious about this, I hope one day someone will open an ADP !
I wonder how they measure !
Price set to $1000 p:0
They don't know if they will enable the upgrade process yet, it might be too complicated. They're currently running tests and MrSpeakers will statue in November if it's possible or not.
http://mrspeakers.com/alpha-prime-headphones/
-
Based on the amount of experience I've had with the Dog line of headphones, I do have some thoughts on the Prime.
1. In regards to the modified driver, I'm mostly certain there are still gains to be had from the stock T50RP driver. I don't know if Luis makes driver changes to his Paradox headphones, but I know the ZMF headphones use the stock driver. With my subjective tests and measurements, I'm of the belief you can get overall better performance (frequency response, resonance, and especially harmonic distortion) than what the AD exhibits without driver modifications. I found some interesting results by changing up the AD's front damping config (better, IMO, but YMMV). Now, that's not to say these driver mods don't do great things, but I'd be curious to see what could have been done otherwise at a lower price point (maybe another tuning and/or front damping revision on the AD?). Perhaps these driver mods are truly great. I'm also curious if these changes are at all similar to other T50RP driver mods I've seen before...I think it was from some Russian forums or something.
2. Dan's headphones have historically needed some revisions, internal or external, before things seemed "right." I personally wouldn't worry about signing up until at least a few months after launch and when the dust has settled. Yeah, this conflicts with my point above wondering what could have been gained with an AD revision vs. an entirely new product (might be easier to sell a new product than continue to have more revisions, which you can tell rub some people the wrong way when they feel they have to send their product back at a cost or buy a new tuning kit). I know a lot of guys liked the AD when it launched, and I got a lot of shit for my opinion on this, but I thought the product wasn't quite ready for launch from a sound perspective.
3. More of a personal thought (welcome to disagree with me), but claims of how much time and hard work fall on deaf ears to me, which isn't exclusive to MrSpeakers for sure. I just know I've heard Dan say this a few times. Still, you can work as hard and long as you want, but that doesn't guarantee any sort of success. Doesn't help me when evaluating products. (Shouldn't hard work be a given in life?)
4. I'd like to see Dan bring back headphone measurements and start incorporating THD results to backup and emphasize his specifications. He used to be all about this with the Mad Dog, and it was refreshing to see this in the industry (in tandem with a budget headphone that broke the $1k+ trend). I know his results were kinda hard to read for the public, but I think there's enough knowledge out there now even about basic and fairly cheap measurement setups that he could utilize to revise his measurement setup.
Don't get me wrong...I still hope to hear the Prime and will definitely do so if I make it to RMAF, but after my experience with his headphones and some other business practices, I'm a bit cautious at this point. If it's the best shit ever, though, I won't be afraid to say so publicly.
-
I don't know if Luis makes driver changes to his Paradox headphones,
Luis has made a new isodynamic driver of his own p;)
Interesting point of view concerning the Prime :)p5
I think Dan's nex step will be to make and headphone from scratch, as you said :
Still, you can work as hard and long as you want, but that doesn't guarantee any sort of success.
Maybe those driver modifications aren't worth the working time.
Still, I really want to know more about all this, especialy concerning the driver tuning.
You've talked about the ZxF, just wanted to say I'm sooooo eager to get one ! One last headphone to sell ! (my Yamaha YH100)
-
I still hope to hear the Prime and will definitely do so if I make it to RMAF, but after my experience with his headphones and some other business practices, I'm a bit cautious at this point. If it's the best shit ever, though, I won't be afraid to say so publicly.
Yup!
At this point it's unclear to me what makes this can worthy of $1000. I don't know if it will require eventual Prime Doggie Treats and further tuning, all at the expense of the costumer's wallet, and for who knows what random result.
-
I still hope to hear the Prime and will definitely do so if I make it to RMAF, but after my experience with his headphones and some other business practices, I'm a bit cautious at this point. If it's the best shit ever, though, I won't be afraid to say so publicly.
Yup!
At this point it's unclear to me what makes this can worthy of $1000. I don't know if it will require eventual Prime Doggie Treats and further tuning, all at the expense of the costumer's wallet, and for who knows what random result.
Exactly my thoughts.
-
I don't know if Luis makes driver changes to his Paradox headphones,
Luis has made a new isodynamic driver of his own p;)
Still, I really want to know more about all this, especialy concerning the driver tuning.
You've talked about the ZxF, just wanted to say I'm sooooo eager to get one ! One last headphone to sell ! (my Yamaha YH100)
Right, I was referring to Luis's T50RP mods (Paradox headphones). Not sure if he makes mods to the driver or not. And, yes, I'm still curious to learn more, though Dan is tight-lipped about mods, and test out the Prime.
Hopefully you enjoy the ZxV. I found it to be a step up in some ways from the AD, a close match in others. Pleasantly surprised with it. We'll see what the Prime driver mods and any new tuning bring to the table. Could very well be as good as claimed. Won't know until I try it!
-
Wondering if the prime is using the Russian roulette driver mod. Would be interesting to find out.
-
That's probably what I was thinking of. Do you happen to have a link on hand? Don't worry about taking the time to search if not.
-
I understand that Mr. Speakers advertises and creates more headphone's than the other T50RP mods, possibly combined; but if baffle's me that they are preferred over headphone's, like the ZMF or LFF.
It was initially exciting that Dr. Clark and Mr. Speakers were using 3D printed cups. I really enjoy the individual parts he is using in his headphones: the connectors, the cups (mentioned), the thick leather headband, the doggie treats, etc... Yet, I don't think it goes together very well. They are just okay with what I use, and comparatively to other T50RP mods I have tried.
-
You mean Dan Clark, right? This isn't Dr. Alex Cavalli we're talking about here.
-
I understand that Mr. Speakers advertises and creates more headphone's than the other T50RP mods, possibly combined; but if baffle's me that they are preferred over headphone's, like the ZMF or LFF.
It was initially exciting that Dr. Clark and Mr. Speakers were using 3D printed cups. I really enjoy the individual parts he is using in his headphones: the connectors, the cups (mentioned), the thick leather headband, the doggie treats, etc... Yet, I don't think it goes together very well. They are just okay with what I use, and comparatively to other T50RP mods I have tried.
I consider both the Paradox and the Slants superior to anything Dan has come up with yet (except perhaps his $1k cans cuz I have not yet listened to them).
Furthermore, the Paradox have been around for longer than any listenable can that Dan has produced in all of their different random iterations AFAIK.
In other words, I don't think Mr Speakers cans are preferred... They were cheaper though.
-
Dan Clark
I do, I do.
I was thinking he could have split personality.
A measuring side (Mad Dog), and a consumerist Sir (or Mistur) side with the Alpha decisions dog.
::Slumps underneath chair, helps self out::
-
With all due respect to Dan (I know him personally), I do wish that he'd take some extra time to tune his headphones before releasing them.
The Mad Dogs went through two or three revisions until it settled into the one with the right sound. The Alpha needed the tuning dots / obi kits, right off the bat. (Of course Jude implying the Alphas were the greatest thing since sliced bread didn't help. And I know Dan got plenty of feedback about the Alpha's weaknesses, myself included.)
I don't like buying stuff half-baked which needs to be sent back for the latest corrections (Mad Dog) or requires additional kits (Alpha) to fix the issues no matter how minor they are.
This is why my advice is to "wait until version 2.7.4" for the Primes.
-
I understand that Mr. Speakers advertises and creates more headphone's than the other T50RP mods, possibly combined; but if baffle's me that they are preferred over headphone's, like the ZMF or LFF.
It was initially exciting that Dr. Clark and Mr. Speakers were using 3D printed cups. I really enjoy the individual parts he is using in his headphones: the connectors, the cups (mentioned), the thick leather headband, the doggie treats, etc... Yet, I don't think it goes together very well. They are just okay with what I use, and comparatively to other T50RP mods I have tried.
I think they are "preferred" in the sense that a lot more people have had the opportunity to hear them. Over the past 2-3 years I have now been to two Head-Fi meets and three audio shows. Dan has been present at all of them with various iterations of his cans. (I happen to like them FWIW, but do not own any.) I have never heard any of LFF's cans although I would very much like to. A few Smeggy cans have showed up at the meets that I attended, but no Paradox or other Luis can. So, it is hard to say whether people generally prefer Mr. Speakers headphones to others, or are just familiar with them and not the other alternatives. The other thing Dan has going for him is that he has a running production, so, some occasional delays notwithstanding, cans are more or less ready to ship when ordered. Paradox and other LFF cans, as I understand it, are generally made to order. A lot of people can be impatient. I think this helps explain the popularity of Mr. Speakers as compared to some other T50RP mods out there, in addition to the fact (IMO) that they are pretty good for their price.
-
I still find alpha dog such a dumb name. Hell, baby spaghetti dolphin, flying squirrels, or frinkin majestic raging unicorn are much better. Screw it, im going to call my modded t50rp pink sparkles, now that's boss as hell.