CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Soapbox => Topic started by: Claritas on January 18, 2015, 02:41:02 AM
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Background: I've written only one formal review (as part of a loaner agreement with a Grado dealer). For listening and assorted tests, I purposely chose two fairly inexpensive set ups: O2+ODAC and an iPod. I figured that most potential buyers would want to get an idea of how the headphone sounds on common, easily-available equipment, and that they would probably have something similar lying round themselves.
The pyrate leaderboard :)p10 now provides a rough consensus of what's good, and it's a work in continuous progress. Recently, we had a thread on good rigs at different prices: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1881.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1881.0.html). headbang This thread might overlap with those efforts, but it serves a less exalted utilitarian purpose.
Although it could end up flying in the face of good sound and it deliberately ignores the personal quest for synergy, it would be useful to make a list of entry and mid-level reference gear to be used for review purposes.
Obviously, certain headphones are picky and a few are very hard to drive or require special amps. But excluding those cases, I have in mind the sort of equipment that wouldn't tempt you to say about a review, "Yeah, he thinks that only because he didn't use a decent set up."
The public often suffers from the opposite problem too: a reviewer (or a dealer) who uses only an especially good or personalized system. The buyer is then disappointed when the headphone doesn't sound anywhere near so good on whatever ordinary equipment he has at home.
The goal is to be as one-size-fits-all as possible within reason. So that whatever someone's reviewing--SR60e, K7XXX, a T50RP mod, X2, HD600, PM2, LCD2, &c., &c.--the results should be fairly consistent and reliable and therefore useful to many readers.
What are your thoughts and recommendations?
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I would just select some Schiit products and stop looking for anything else... :p
In fact, lemme order a Modi 2 now...
P.S. My rig would be PC --> Modi2 --> Burson Soloist SL...
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The O2/ODAC would seem like a reasonable review setup a year or two ago, but like gelocks said, I think Schiit's gear would be a great idea now. The modi 2u + magni 2u can pretty much drive nearly everything out there reasonably well and consistently. The low output impedance will do well with all iems and low impedance headphones. There is enough power for orthos yet it is quiet enough for sensitive CIEMs now with the gain switch.
The two together is around $300 so it's still a "beginner" setup but the non uber versions can drop it down to an even lower budget. A lot of people are bound to have the original and the new modi and magnis so it'll serve as a good reference point for comparisons.
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Magni and Modi over the O2 easily. That's cheap enough.
/thread
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Certainly as an entry-level set up, though that probably wouldn't suffice for a somewhat snobbier crowd of readers. I think that needs to be taken into account in the discussion.
So what's acceptable gear for a reviewer between the $300 M2U/M2U and maybe something like Gungnir/Mjolnir ($1,600)? Or is there just a big gap?
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Based on my impressions of my GO 450, perhaps the Geek Pulse? Base edition of course.
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I've liked the following:
1. standalone GO 720.
2. Bifrost Uber + Project Ember
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Beresford Caïman and Meier Corda jazz. 700€ (Shipping and VAT included in E.U)
This amp would me my choice for reviewing because all what I plugged to this amp sounded good .. from IEM to Orthos and even High impedance Senns or Beyers. For the DAC, the Caïman is affordable , neutral , resolving enough. IMO unbeatable at this price point.
:money:
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hello,
i really may be going out on a limb here, but my thinking on the state of the headphone electronics space has evolved rather quickly.
as it stands now, i think that Schitt Audio is poised to become the go-to for most folks. superb customer service, cachet of a small company, very nicely designed, wallet friendly products, and killer FAQ's!
for budget set up:
Magni 2 Uber $149USD
Modi 2 Uber $149USD
Vali $119USD
SYS $49USD
Uber on Magni 2 and Modi 2 only because as a reviewer you will need to address all connectivity options.
the chain would be: source + Modi 2 + SYS (used in "reversed" mode) +
Magni 2 OR + Vali.
you would then be able to provide your readers with a comparison of entry level SS and valve amps using an entry level DAC and have the convenience of a well designed switch box.
mid-level:
Asgard 2 $249USD
Bifrost (fully kitted out) $519USD
Lyr 2 $449USD
SYS $49USD
Bifrost is the full Monty due to, as a reviewer, you would need all options.
the chain would be: source + Bifrost + SYS (used in "reversed" mode) + Asgard 2 OR + Lyr 2.
again, comparison for your audience of mid-level SS and valve amplification using an upgradeable mid-level DAC and for your ease of use an elegant switch box.
at the mid-level i think the Lyr 2 is a better choice due to its lower output impedance verses Valhalla 2, more Swiss Army than HD800. p;)
but, i may be blowing smoke out my butt as the mid-level set up is what i want. (i'm 1/4 of the way there, got an Asgard 2 for the December holiday. :money:)
i also think it would be really nice if folks who were just getting their ears opened and looking for reviews had a fairly reasonable price point to start their journey.
YMMV, all of this is just my opinions, etc. etc. etc. and all that poo
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Budget setup... I wonder if anyone still uses the headphone socket on their hifi integrated amplifier?
Yep, I know, being a specialist ear-fi community, that is probably going to far, and they are all going to be different, so a benchmark is hard if not impossible. However, many people would like to have good headphones without spending more money on ancillary equipment.
By the way: I blame my integrated amp (Cyrus) for getting me started on all this stuff. It was an internet-down night in which I unplugged my 'phones from the PC interface (Echo Audiofire) and carried them over to the hifi, only to experience an immediate, "wow: these phones are capable of so much more than I thought!"
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I probably wasn't clear enough in my OP. I'm not really asking, "What's the minimum period?"
I'm asking, "What are some more versatile set ups that don't cost well over $1,000 that a broad audience of readers would respect?"
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I have no faith in the O2/Odac combo or the GO, what I would consider as a decent good set up (slightly north of 1000$) is the Mjolnir amp with at least a DAC such as the Pioneer U-05 -/- Denon DA 300 -/- Teac UD-301.
As an integrated solution the latest from Grace (m920) and Benchmark (Dac2) are not bad at all (and definitely better than the earlier series), though they will not drive with ease certain planars.
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I probably wasn't clear enough in my OP. I'm not really asking, "What's the minimum period?"
I'm asking, "What are some more versatile set ups that don't cost well over $1,000 that a broad audience of readers would respect?"
hello,
i'm somewhat confused as to why you feel this wasn't addressed.
my entry level combo = $466USD without S&H or taxes.
mid-level combo = $1,266 without S&H or taxes.
both of them have all the available connectivity options and the ability to compare SS and valve amps with, i think, an easy to use A/B interface.
i'm also thinking that these combos offer enough flexibility to drive most cans.
as to the all in ones (just a cost comparison):
Grace Design m920 = $1,995USD (retail)
Benchmark DAC2 HGC = $1,995USD (@ http://benchmarkmedia.com)
i believe that Tyll is using the following for his reference system:
AURALiC Taurus MKII = $1899USD
AURALiC Vega Digital Audio Processor = $3495USD
total = $5394USD
if i'm missing something, please advise.
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hello,
i'm somewhat confused as to why you feel this wasn't addressed.
my entry level combo = $466USD without S&H or taxes.
mid-level combo = $1,266 without S&H or taxes.
if i'm missing something, please advise.
I find it hard to believe that your entry set up would satisfy somewhat snobbier readers, and your mid-level set up ($1,300) costs too much for an ordinary guy who wants to write reviews. Is there nothing in between?
Several good recommendations have been offered so far. I hope for more.
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hello,
of course there is, you drop either the SS or the valve amp from the mid-range and ignore the SYS.
when you asked for flexibility, i thought you were looking for multiple amplifier topographies in order to provide a broader perspective in your proposed reviews. my bad. :money:
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On the contrary, your good--it's an interesting idea. Thanks!
I really think we should forget the M2U/M2U idea because of snobby readers.
So your recommendation is Bifrost Uber-Uber and Asgard 2 ($768 + tx, &c. = ~$850). OK, that's plausible.
I wonder if ODAC or Modi 2U and Asgard 2 (~$450) would be good enough for the snobs. Doubtful. I think people want to see that the reviewer has made a substantial enough investment in his system.
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hello,
i agree that the entry level Schitt may be a bit down market for the snobs. if only because it uses wallwarts.
this is also the where i think the ODAC might be a fail as it is USB powered.
self contained, with an internal power supply, and a "real" power cord i think would be less "hobbyist." ;)
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Budget setup... I wonder if anyone still uses the headphone socket on their hifi integrated amplifier?
Yep, I know, being a specialist ear-fi community, that is probably going to far, and they are all going to be different, so a benchmark is hard if not impossible. However, many people would like to have good headphones without spending more money on ancillary equipment.
By the way: I blame my integrated amp (Cyrus) for getting me started on all this stuff. It was an internet-down night in which I unplugged my 'phones from the PC interface (Echo Audiofire) and carried them over to the hifi, only to experience an immediate, "wow: these phones are capable of so much more than I thought!"
I definitely still do - but mainly because I am supremely poor at the moment.
I'll have to get the specs on the exact model and year of the receiver I'm using, but if y'all feel like having a heart attack, this is what I did in college, not only for 'critical listening' (lulz) but for 'mixing' as well:
Old Mac Laptop Line Out > AUX on Old (specs when I get home) Receiver > Headphone Out to (600ohm!) K240 and/or some old Mirage bookshelf speakers.
Annnnd... that's what I use to this day.
So...
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Heart... attacked.
J/K. That's pretty similar to how I used to roll. I swear that U2's Joshua Tree still sounds best that way.
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Hi All,
Love this discussion.
One thing I believe that is not being discussed, are those of us who are spaced challenged. What I mean is, because of work commitments we are constrained to live in very small spaces that are affordable and close to our work, and we are subject to moving every six months to a year.
I know the nature of this endeavor is scaled much smaller than a normal home stereo system, but things can get out of hand. Nature abhors a vacuum. I think a road warrior setup based around ease of use, customer service, reliability, durability and flexibility with choice of headphones, would be welcomed.
I am not interested in any portable gear. When I go out I don’t have a laptop, tablet or whatever. I do set my phone to vibrate and don’t own earbuds. I use the time away from my desk or work environment to disconnect and connect to the physical world around me. When I’m at my desk at home I want the best possible music within my constraints for space and money. I have no need for a portable or permanent setup at my work.
The one thing I would love to change up are the headphones. Having an amp able to drive a broad range of HPs at their proper levels would be really nice.
Thoughts??