CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on March 08, 2014, 08:31:54 PM
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Tari's HP1 / HP1000 with Don tweaks.
Note superb decay characteristics from 4k upward.
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FOR COMPARISON: Magnum drivers in HP1000 cups. A lot of people don't realize how good the Joe Grado stuff was. (The Joe Grado driver is slightly more resolving than the Magnum driver. Just a bit.)
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yep , spent last night listening to the lucky fella's 2nd one and again felt that this one of the few dynamics that could take me away from orthos. Just a superb headphone.
Makes me realize that we really have not evolved that much in headphones overall. I could easily live with the Joe Grado HP1000 or Yamaha YHD1 and not be concerned that I was missing out on much.
..dB
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Wow, they looks amazing. I'm really diggin' the warmth on that FR. Very smooth.
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Cool beans. I had a second pair that had still been stock last week and tried listening to it and could get more than 20-30 minutes without mids or ringing bothering me. I can keep Don's on for marathon sessions (although HP1K comfort isn't the best.)
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Holy crap!!! I would like to hear those someday... :)p1
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They're going around the WC right now with the BD, want me to add you (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1440.0.html)?
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My take on these:
Sound
These are not your average Grados. A very smooth, warm and laid back presentation. By that I don't mean detail lacking, it's just not what I have come to expect from a currently typical "uber-exciting" Grado. I've seen the plots (prior ones, listened to these ones first before measuring), but I did not know exactly what to expect.
The (upper) bass is not as punchy as my KSC-75s, but it's there and it's well balanced. The mids are really nice. Not much false random room colouration I could sense. The treble is not piercing and fairly pleasant. Not a ton of air. The cans may be a little roll off at the extremes, but everything else sound very well balanced to me.
Comfort
Not nearly as super comfy as most open full size cans, but I did not mind them.
Presentation
These cans seem to be made to last. All metal frame with a pretty solid headband. Sexy. I think they look nice. Wife thought I looked funny, but that's proly true even w/o the cans.
Price
Unobtanium... John. Needs. To Talk. To Dad Uncle Joe. Build them. Put in the market. Profit.
Overall
Seriously NOT poo
Measurements
Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5914;image)
CSD Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5916;image)
CSD Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5918;image)
Distortion Right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5920;image)
Distortion Left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5922;image)
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Compare with Anax's HP1000 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,24.0.html) using similar measurement rig:
Anax:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24.0;attach=22;image)
This set:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5914;image)
Comparo w KSC-75
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=5878;image)
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Updated above plots (fixed calibration).
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My HP1
Slight upper mid/lower treble dip/recess veil on strings. Good midbass, low bass, but upper bass not as pronounced, lacks a bit of punch. Very neutral. Warmth without congestion. Could use much more clarity and blackground compared to the HD800. Smooth treble, relatively decently extended for a warmer sounding phone. Maybe not so much. Mine feels more balanced, coherent and resolving overall (except those areas/peaks where the modded version brings our better clarity). Mine is more neutral than the typical HP1000s out there IME, so there are less issues to fix. Mine has more air, space and room to breathe providing a more relaxed and resolving listen. Piano notes and chorus are more precise and articulate on Estefan’s Coming Out of the Dark.
Don’s HP1
Could be a bit more sensitive than mine, can’t tell if they are hair louder or just clearer but more congested. Mine have the Grado Reference cables for whatever that’s worth. Better upper bass punch and upper bass clarity. More midbass sense which is present in most HP1’s compared to my own, could be reverb. Some areas across the FR seem a tad clearer. This adds to an overall sense of better overall dynamic contrast to the timbre of various instruments. Strings seem more veiled and smeared a la Abyss. Maracas and the kick drum on Hotel California is more veiled and intro applause is murkier. Too much sense of an upper mid lower treble veil muffling female vocals and other information in those registers. Reminds me of unmodded Abyss veil but also pushed up higher to the next registers as well. The enhanced clarity in certain parts seems to make the FR seem a touch more uneven and fatiguing for me along with the bass compression. Imaging is bit more nebulous, seems like there is a slight reverb or echo. Richer, more syrupy sounding. Piano and the chorus at the start of Coming out of the Dark is vaguer and the chorus more shouty and distorted.
Unlike the HD800, distortion and clarity seem to take a bigger hit as you crank the volume on the HP1/2. HPs are a better low to medium volume phone for sure IMHO.
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Anax lent me his Joe Grados. It was hard for me to compare to Tari's pair because I didn't have Tari's for direct comparison. Going only by memory I would say both were fairly close. Both are fairly pleasant to my ears.
Here are some measurements for Anax's HP1000s @(90 dB)
Frequency Response
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6024;image)
CSD right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6026;image)
CSD left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6028;image)
Distortion right
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6030;image)
Distortion left
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6032;image)
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Here is a comparo of Anax's HP1000 vs Tari's
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6034;image)
Tari's does seem to have a little more upper bass. Most differences seem to occur in the mids region.
Bellow distortion on the right drivers @ 100 dB:
Anax's
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6036;image)
Tari's
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6038;image)
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Quite a bit less 3rd order stuff in Tari's pair there.
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There's less odd-order in general, and those are generally considered the less euphonic, more bothersome harmonics. There's less second order too by a decent amount but I have not always found that to correlate specifically with my enjoyment.
I haven't heard Anax's HP-2, but my pair definitely sounded much cleaner after the mods than before (as an HP-1.)
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Note that second set is at 100dB. I specifically asked Ultrabike to measure mine at two dB levels as I felt the HP100 was a much better headphone to listen to at lower volumes. I was curious to see distortion behavior as the sound got cranked up. My HD800 is far superior when listening loudly by comparison.
Believe it or not, mine sounds cleaner overall to my ears than Tari. The main discrepancy that could possibly account for it is a combination of the reduced mid/upper bass hump (he also has much cleaner upper bass distortion that could be the cause for my perceiving a faster, punchier, more clean upper bass response) and the funky THD spike in the mids/upper mids of Tari's pair. I did note that female vocals seemed just a touch more forward on occasion with his too. I think also looking at the graphs measured at 90dB shows the overall distortion on mine to be about 5dB lower than Tari's from 800hz on up.
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Adding impedance measurements for Anax's Joe Grados:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1488.0;attach=6046;image)
Roughly about 42-43 ohms which seems consistent with listed values in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grado_Labs#Past_production). Also interesting relatively small Zmax/Zmin. I think Kojaku modded SR225i (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR225iDIYModifiedCabillasSapeleWoodiedbyKojaku.pdf) had that characteristic.
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I can't be the only one who prefers these without the cloth in front... I thought these were much too muffled at first listen.
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I can't be the only one who prefers these without the cloth in front... I thought these were much too muffled at first listen.
Nope, that's why I have my stock ones w/o a cloth. I get why it's there though, but it's a trade-off. I can't even stand having grill covers over my speakers. Drives me batshit crazy.
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What speakers do you have Mike?
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What speakers do you have Mike?
Nothing special atm as I'd like to move out of state and sort out my headphone rig(s) first before getting serious. Just some 15 year old ported THX Logitech satellites on my PC and JBL SVA 1600s for the rest.
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I think if I owned this headphone, it would be my go-to for jazz music. It's got that sultry quality while maintaining neutrality among all the instruments. Definitely growing on me, especially with the Black Diamond.
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Got these in safe and sound from OJ. I've noticed they are quite sensitive to how tightly they fit on your head. How did they fit for everyone else on here, and did you adjust the headband/clamp at all?
Also my first thought was that my ears didn't die from pain when I listened to them.
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I give them just enough space so that the foam pad clears (doesn't hit) the aluminum L and R blocks when you try to swivel the cups. That means wearing it on the top of my ear essentially; I was able to pinch and pull on my earlobes while I had them on. I found this distributed more weight on the top of my head rather than on my ear, which was more comfortable for long sessions. I also recommend placing the headband farther back towards the crown of your head for this method.
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Bending that headband is near impossible.
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That means wearing it on the top of my ear essentially; I was able to pinch and pull on my earlobes while I had them on.
I wonder if my head is large. They were in vice grip mode when I received them! I thought they sounded much better when I pulled them off a bit.
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Bowl and flat pads' dual foam density (the stiffer layer on the rear is the main culprit) entraps low frequencies as their only way to conduct warmth from the driver to the ear, muddy warmth that is.
If you seek clarity on a Grado headphone you need to use “uniform” foam pads like comfies or better, HD414's.
For HD414's to have bass I did this (http://www.head-fi.org/t/622756/joseph-grado-signature-product-hp2i-upgraded-hp-1000-headphone-information-journal-and-comparative-review-on-hiatus/240#post_11032139) to them, which I'm calling the sunflower mod because it's bright yellow, has petals and is hefty (sounding).
I'm big on Scotch tape mods. This one provides at least twice the bass conductivity of the original Grado bass head mod (http://www.head-fi.org/t/148598/grado-basshead-mod), but with the added clarity and comfort benefits of the HD414 pad.
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FOR COMPARISON: Magnum drivers in HP1000 cups. A lot of people don't realize how good the Joe Grado stuff was. (The Joe Grado driver is slightly more resolving than the Magnum driver. Just a bit.)
Unintentionally gave negative karma on this post since I've never seen the options before. My bad.
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Unintentionally gave negative karma on this post since I've never seen the options before. My bad.
+1 for that.
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+1 for that.
+1 for being a n00b, I suppose. I was like wtf and why is there a hyperlink dig at Claritas.