CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Headphone Measurements => Topic started by: ultrabike on September 24, 2013, 08:47:49 AM

Title: A padless SR-60
Post by: ultrabike on September 24, 2013, 08:47:49 AM
So, a friend of mine (same that lent me his M50s) lent me his SR-60s. I believe these were his first serious cans, and has had them around for quite some time. So long in fact, that the pads are pretty much history... literally:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3721/9912488395_51710559ac.jpg)

Sound

These sound fairly similar to my KSC-75. However, the sound is more hollow. The fact that the pads are pretty much gone might have contributed to that. Something is definitively going on with the high mids. Perhaps distortion. To me, these sound a little more artificial than my KSC-75s, though less bright and with about the same amount of punch. Likewise, these roll of in the sub-bass region.

Comfort

The lack of pads make this headphone a wonderful penance tool to cleanse your sins.

Presentation

These look retro to me... and I like that. Very practical design.

Price

I would say, get the KSC-75s, and save your money for something bettar. Some others would say these are plenty good, so that is that.

Overall

OK sound. OK look.

Measurements

Frequency response:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=3932;image)

SR-60 (red) vs KSC-75 (yellow) - right channel frequency response:
(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=3944;image)

Other stuff attached below (quite a bit of ringing and distortion around 4kHz)
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: shipsupt on September 24, 2013, 10:38:54 AM
Pads will definitely make a big change in presentation/sound, not to mention comfort!   ;D

The 60's and 80's were the gateway drug for many of us.  What are these going for these days, $100 new?
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: OJneg on September 24, 2013, 03:20:42 PM
These don't look that bad actually. I might grab a pair sometime if I want something to play with.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: ultrabike on September 24, 2013, 03:30:18 PM
Pads will definitely make a big change in presentation/sound, not to mention comfort!   ;D

The 60's and 80's were the gateway drug for many of us.  What are these going for these days, $100 new?

Always been curious about these given their classic entry level decent audio status. Other than the problems I heard in the upper mid-range these are quite good. Not sure if there are product variations tho.

These don't look that bad actually. I might grab a pair sometime if I want something to play with.

I like the frequency response balance of these particular set. It could change for better or worse with newer pads.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: Thujone on September 24, 2013, 03:45:51 PM
A warm Grado...

It's odd because my buddy owns the MS1 which is what got me into this hobby in the first place. I quickly bought a pair of MS1's and found that my pair was drastically different from his (we both have the MS1i FYI). His are much more laid back and warm while mine were incredibly bright with no bass at all. Needless to say, I got to modding. I fell upon the MS1000 thread and I went for it. Now, they are by far some of the best cans I've ever listened to.

Anyway, the point is that Grado may have some inconsistencies with their lower end cans. I'd be interested to see a second measurement from a different SR60 just for shits and giggles. Overall though, I dig the FR of this pair.

EDIT: If those are the L Cush pads, try wrapping a piece of electrical tape around the outside of the pad and measure again. This is supposed to increase bass response significantly. I'd like to see what it does if you don't mind! If you need pics, just search "Grado tape bass mod" in google.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: ultrabike on September 24, 2013, 04:07:22 PM
A warm Grado...

Yup, relatively speaking, it seems so. I could send it Marv's way to check it out, if he is interested... I don't think my friend would mind at all.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2013, 04:14:02 PM
Yes. I've measured Grados with squished pads before, but that Grado you have there is very interesting. Very interesting.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: Ringingears on September 25, 2013, 01:38:38 AM
My Grado 60's are so old I had hair when I bought them.  :-0  I pulled them out after reading comments here. The pads crumbled onto the floor when I put them on, and then I spent a few minutes with a Q-tip to get the foam residue out of my ears.  :gross:

The sound without the pads was thin, completely lacking bass and the treble was like a needle in my ear not to mention they hurt like hell.  I pulled them off in just 2 or 3 minutes.

I was shocked as these were my "gateway drug" to good headphones (back before the Internet, smartphones and HD TV).  I tried the pads from my SR-325's. Some improvement, but  not acceptable. Oh well, it was a fun experiment. Don't think that the Grado sound does it for me anymore.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: funkmeister on September 25, 2013, 03:26:32 AM
So my first foray into headphilia was with Sony's, then AKG's, then Grado's. The distortion of the Grado's was so intriguing to me with stringed instruments but I eventually settled on a more realistic resonance with some AKG's. I do want to sometimes take a step back to Grado's but not the SR225 that I first experienced. I think I'd be fine with the SR60's.

Anyway, go with either the TTVJ flat pads or the L-CUSH. I second the tape mod if you get the latter.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: AstralStorm on September 25, 2013, 08:17:17 PM
Beautiful quadruple penetrator ringing for sure. Actually 2x2: 4 + 8k and 5 + 15k.
Please use 1/16th octave smoothing, 1/8th hides sharp high end notches way too much.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: Marvey on September 26, 2013, 04:44:20 AM
Here are my measurements of the same SR-60.
It should be noted that with the Grado comfy pads, the sensitivity of the SR-60 drops by about 13db. That's huge. The drop is a combination of distance from the driver to the mic and the absorbing qualities of the pad.

Since with each measurement, 1k was calibrated to 87db, the comfy pad measurement has higher distortion. It's has to work harder to reach that SPL compared to the padless version which sits right on top of the mic.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: ultrabike on September 26, 2013, 05:07:21 AM
Wow!... Thanks Marv! This just reminded me of an Innerfidelity article on the Kojaku mod (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/last-call-diy-cans-heres-latest-nick-ns-killer-grado-sr225i). Seems removing (or changing) the pad material from the driver is key to tuning these.

Very interesting results and account regarding distortion as well. Thanks!!!

EDIT: Ha! I didn't pay attention to this before, but the HP1, 2, and 3 flat pads are open and are known to tame the highs and bring up the lows!

Beautiful quadruple penetrator ringing for sure. Actually 2x2: 4 + 8k and 5 + 15k.
Please use 1/16th octave smoothing, 1/8th hides sharp high end notches way too much.

I actually used 1/6th smoothing. Below same data with 1/12th smoothing and no smoothing.
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: shipsupt on September 26, 2013, 03:30:10 PM
I guess it also helps explain the "quarter" mods as well.  Interesting measurements guys, thanks.

Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: CEE TEE on September 26, 2013, 06:31:54 PM
I still have at least three types of Grado pads sitting in a Ziplock.


Let me know if you want me to send them down for use measuring Grados.


I've been keeping them as I will probably get MS1 again at some point!
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: ultrabike on September 26, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
I would be interested CT!

Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: CEE TEE on September 27, 2013, 12:17:11 AM
^Okay, PM me the deets and foam will fly!
Title: Re: A padless SR-60
Post by: ultrabike on October 30, 2013, 05:29:32 AM
Thanks CT!!!

Tried out the SR-60's with CT's comfy, bowl and Kramer modded HD414 pads. The results are pretty similar to what Tyll went through in his Evaluation of Grado Stock and Modified Ear-Pads (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evaluation-grado-stock-and-modified-ear-pads) article.

With the comfy pads I got something similar to my KSC-75's. A bit of the same u-shape response, but not bad at all. It had an enjoyable mid-bass punch, but not a lot of sub-bass.

Next came the Kramer modded pads. I had to turn the volume down a little with these. While I was expecting a big change in balance with this mod, it still sounded fairly similar to the comfy pads. Perhaps the bass was cleaner, but it lost a little punch. I found these pads to be most enjoyable. I spent more time with this configuration that the rest.

Then along came the bowl pad... Things became crappy-fingly brighter, way harsher and whatever bass was left... muddier. These I liked the least....

Anyhow. Here are some measurements as well.

FR Overlay

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=4325;image)

No Pad Distortion

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=4327;image)

Kramer modded HD414 Distortion

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=4329;image)

Comfy Pad Distortion

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=4331;image)

Bow Pad Distortion

(http://www.changstar.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1138.0;attach=4333;image)