CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => The Geek Cave: Home Theatre, Computers, and More! => Topic started by: Kirosia on August 18, 2013, 09:59:16 PM
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I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo heatsink. Today, the stock fan began rattling. I tried cleaning it, reseating it, to no avail. I tried a different fan header on the motherboard, and the rattling still happens. Does this mean that high chances are, the fan has simply gone bad? I'm more worried about motherboard issues.
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Just when I was about to order one of these...
How long have you had it? Is it the fan wings or bearing rattling, or is it rattling because of how it's clipped to the heatsink?
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Eight months.
I just tried placing my finger on the middle of the fan (circular part), the noise disappears when the fan slows/stops. Would it be the bearings, then? I've read that the CM uses a really cruddy proprietary bearing design.
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Usually the rattling is causing by the unbalance fan motor when rotating the weight is undistributed across the fan causing the fan to move (rattling). You can opened up the fan motor and try give it some WD-40 see it soothe out a little, if not best option is to get an another fan.
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I might just splurge for a Noctua NF-F12. If the fan is bad, don't care. If the motherboard or something else is bad, I'm going to die.
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You can always test it out with a fan controller or 3/4pins to molex adapter plug straight into the PSU molex connector for testing purpose.
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Well I did pull it out of the PWM header and place it in the 3-pin, same thing happens. Is it probable that both my fan headers are bad?
I can't find the fan adapter for my PSU.
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Very unlike, if it does you can see a black spot around the fan header giving you an indication that the header was probably burn or short out. The imbalance fan motor is the most likely root of the problem, you can use the case fan swap it out and mount it on your heatsink see if you get a different result.
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Think I'll just replace, and hope for the best. Might as well pick up a CM Storm Spawn from Newegg while I'm at it. (Have 2-Day Shoprunner)
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I'd be willing to bet that it's a motor/bearing issue, and nothing to do with the motherboard or fan headers. Cheap ball bearing fans fail all the time, you get what you pay for. Sleeve and fluid bearing fans generally aren't rated as high as double ball bearing fans in terms of MTBF, but they almost always have a much smoother quality in terms of noise and are less likely to grenade before they should.
Noctua, Scythe Gentle Typhoon, Nexus, and Noise Blocker are my favorites. Most of the time fans made by CM and other large companies are just rebadged Yate Loons or something similar. Almost no companies like that actually produce any of their fans.
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Any "nays" in regards to the Noctua NF-F12? The case is a Define R4, Seasonic PSU. Want to stick with the silent motif.
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Personally I would get the Scythe Gentle Typhoon, but Nocuta is still a great choice. Here is a good read http://www.overclock.net/t/724577/the-well-dressed-megahalems-65-fans-and-112-setups-56k-warning (http://www.overclock.net/t/724577/the-well-dressed-megahalems-65-fans-and-112-setups-56k-warning).
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GT was out of stock at Newegg, so I just ordered the Noctua. I really hope this solves the problem, and no other PC issues materialize. I may even need a beefier UPS soon...
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I know you already ordered your fan(s), but yeah, that sounds like you just needed a replacement fan.
FWIW, I recently purchased two of the 140mm Cougar fans (highest end model without LEDs). They're practically silent in my R4 at 5V or 7vV. At 12V, you can only really hear them if no other electronic appliance is running at the same time in the nearby rooms.
Now, outside of a case, the 12V setting has a decent amount of volume to it, but surprisingly little given the amount of air it pushes. 5V and 7V are still great even outside of the case in terms of volume level and airflow.
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That CoolerMaster 212 fan is dead. That early bearing failure means either it was a serious imbalance in the fan or a manufacturing defect in the bearing.
I can vouch for Noctua NF-S12 (case) and NF-P12 (cpu). Superb fans, very high performance for the inaudible noise they make. (even nice nonannoying wind if fully turned up)
NF-F12 is also pretty good, but not as quiet. You won't need that unless your radiator is very dense or very tall necessitating high pressures.
With low fin density heatsinks, like Noctua's NH-D14 or NH-C14, you can even use NF-S12 without any issues.
I'm using 3x S12 and 1x P12, none has failed or gone loud yet for 1.5 years, which is quite a feat considering I had major dust due to renovations.
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I picked up the NF-12. Was a bitch to attach the clips used to mount on the CM's heatsink, and it's not completely quiet. BUT, no rattle.
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I picked up the NF-12. Was a bitch to attach the clips used to mount on the CM's heatsink, and it's not completely quiet. BUT, no rattle.
Are you running it full speed? Noctuas generally aren't "silent" with 12V because they mostly run at speeds comparable to "medium" fans made by other silent fan manufacturers. Noctua (last I checked) doesn't make fans designed to run at very low, completely soundless speeds when fed with 12V. Fortunately they include resistors in the box to cut the power down to I believe either 9V and 7V or 7 and 5, I can't remember which. It's probably the former though as a lot of fans have trouble starting with just 5V. Use the "ULNA" lead between the fan and connector and the motherboard fan header and the fan should slow down enough to be pretty much completely inaudible.
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It's not too bad, and it has been quite hot these few weeks. I have it connected to the PWM or whatevs. Never changed the stock fan settings in the bios.
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It's not too bad, and it has been quite hot these few weeks. I have it connected to the PWM or whatevs. Never changed the stock fan settings in the bios.
Is it a PWM version or 3-pin version? If it's a PWM you can just tell bios to run the fan at like 50% until the processor hits 70C, that'll do it
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To be honest, I tried once and didn't really figure out how. I actually worry that there's too little airflow in my case, my room is frequently hot.
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Open your windows/doors, take the PC panels off. Worth the probability of a stray cosmic ray. Don't like enclosures anymore, but I also like skeleton watches so don't mind me.
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To be honest, I tried once and didn't really figure out how. I actually worry that there's too little airflow in my case, my room is frequently hot.
That's the whole point of PWM, the computer watches the core temp for you and if things start to get a bit warm, speeds up the fan accordingly. The danger zone is generally around 90C. That's likely to cause crashes and is generally not good for the long term health of the CPU. Anything much under 75C though is fine. If you're not overclocking at all, heat shouldn't be a problem.
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Make the switch to water. :D
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Make the switch to water. :D
Unless you're a big time overclocker and you run your CPU way above spec in terms of voltage, watercooling is beyond useless and far more trouble than it's worth. The closed loop single 120 or 140mm radiators are no better than TOTL air cooling, but they sure are noisier, and some of them leak and it's not just water that's in there. The double 120s and 140s are slightly better, and may buy you an extra 100Mhz over a dual tower Thermalright, Noctua, or Prolimatech. Again with double the noise. BFD.
You can go further with a Koolance or completely DIY, but with Haswell I don't really see the point.
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Make the switch to water. :D
Unless you're a big time overclocker and you run your CPU way above spec in terms of voltage, watercooling is beyond useless and far more trouble than it's worth. The closed loop single 120 or 140mm radiators are no better than TOTL air cooling, but they sure are noisier, and some of them leak and it's not just water that's in there. The double 120s and 140s are slightly better, and may buy you an extra 100Mhz over a dual tower Thermalright, Noctua, or Prolimatech. Again with double the noise. BFD.
it's freaking silent dude, you must be a bat
You can go further with a Koolance or completely DIY, but with Haswell I don't really see the point.
My Corsair H100 is quiet as hell, not sure what you mean by 'they are noisier'. I've never heard a CPU fan, stock or otherwise sound more quiet than the motor on the CPU pumping the radiator. It's freaking silent dude, you must be a bat to hear it.
Does Haswell still ship w/o fans like the last gen Ivys? Those things ran more thermally inefficient than Sandy which is one reason I avoided them. The only thing I want Haswell for is a laptop.
Just get a tall aquarium, fill it w/ mineral oil and drop the whole PC inside. Problem solved.
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Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBrCP9B93E
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Does Haswell still ship w/o fans like the last gen Ivys? Those things ran more thermally inefficient than Sandy which is one reason I avoided them. The only thing I want Haswell for is a laptop.
I've got an ivy i5, and I chose to replace the stock heatsink right away because on my core duo, the push pins randomly snapped. Twice. And my case didn't allow access to the back of the motherboard, so goddamned Intel. If they stopped including them with newer CPUs, I can only see that as a good thing.
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Yeah.... I ran an H60 and H100i and they were literally silent with decent fans. I tried the Noctua and it was louder, bulkier, and just plain ugly since I like to build my computer with aesthetics as well as performance.
I'm planning to run full custom loop just for the hell of it. Set up properly, knowing what you're doing, there shouldn't be any problems and should run very cool.
Overclocking shouldn't be the only reason to get water cooling...
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I could hear the pump on my H80, but then I just put a bit of foam behind my mobo tray and it was fine.
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My Corsair H100 is quiet as hell, not sure what you mean by 'they are noisier'. I've never heard a CPU fan, stock or otherwise sound more quiet than the motor on the CPU pumping the radiator. It's freaking silent dude, you must be a bat to hear it.
Does Haswell still ship w/o fans like the last gen Ivys? Those things ran more thermally inefficient than Sandy which is one reason I avoided them. The only thing I want Haswell for is a laptop.
You got one of the good ones then. The motor and water block in those closed loop kits are all OEM from Asetek, and I've seen (and heard) a lot of pumps that hum of even squeal. The fans in most of the kits are also average at best.
Again, unless your in to big time overclocking where Haswells get scorching hot, a Thermalright Silver Arrow or Prolimatech Genesis with some Noiseblockers attached will be completely and utterly soundless while keeping temps well under control. No pumps, no leaks, just quiet.
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You're generalizing water cooling units making it look like all units are guaranteed to have some kind of problem. This is a whole different issue than Corsair's having QC issues with their products. You only hear about these issues so much because those who have the issues speak up, but those who don't, don't speak up. I've personally had two WC units, and installed and tested at least 20, and no one so far has come to me about any sort of issue whatsoever. None of my friends has had any issues as well, but I do come across people with issues with their units a lot online.
I get your point that it's unnecessary to introduce potential problems, and I acknowledge that. As I said, everyone has their own tastes, I find that WC looks so much better, performs better, and is quieter, but I initially switched to WC just for aesthetics before I considered performance.
As an aside, anyone who is trying to do some massive OCing shouldn't even have Haswell.
ps. Noiseblockers aren't that good :P
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ps. Noiseblockers aren't that good :P
The low speed, Multi-frame 120 is pretty damn good. The Black Silents are pretty good, but pricey. I've seen differing reports on the new e-Loops. I need to try some myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ndhIT5kxY
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Funny, I have the 212 evo in my current pc. Been about 6 months, no problems yet.. bios set to silent fan speed and it's nice and quiet. My previous PC, I used a corsair h50 closed loop water cooler, the instructions said to tell the bios to run the fan at full speed and it was definitely very noisy. I also experimented with a couple of gentle typhoon fans on the radiator in push/pull and that was insanely loud but let me overclock pretty well. The 212 evo is much quieter. If the fan dies I still have a gentle typhoon I can replace it with
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I use a Corsair Hydro Series H80, it's nice and quiet and keeps the cpu really cool.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181031 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181031)
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I use a Corsair Hydro Series H80, it's nice and quiet and keeps the cpu really cool.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181031 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181031)
With the first gen of Corsair closed loop coolers there was more variance between units than the H80i you've linked. With the switch to CoolIT from Asetek they seem to have fewer problems and the pumps are a bit quieter (albeit still audible in some instances) with the H110 being the best of the bunch. I've had the chance to test a few of the newer units out and they perform pretty well. If you have the space and are planning an upgrade in the future (and are still smitten with the all-in-one units), I'd go with the NZXT Krakens as the decision to use 140mm rads yields much better performance. The Silverstone Tundra is also a good choice as the radiator used is pretty darn good (head and shoulders above the Corsair units). If you're after performance that approaches custom loops and have serious cooling needs, the Swiftech H220/H320 are the clear winners in this space.
Large case people: If you've got a decent sized case with reasonable airflow, any of the single 120mm radiator all in one coolers priced over $75 are not the best deal when the Noctua U14S is is priced at 75.99. The performance of that cooler is phenomenal and the noise level is quite low. You really need to move to the dual 120mm or dual 140mm radiator designs to surpass it and even then, managing overall noise is difficult (which may or may not be important to you).
For smaller builds: the two issues I've found with the better performing air units in smaller builds is size in the middle of the case (especially vertical space off the motherboard) and airflow requirements. In order for a heatsink to have the surface area necessary to compete with the newer crop of all in ones, you're looking at a lot of fins and things get huge very quickly. Additionally, I've found it difficult to consistently get the airflow necessary for coolers of that size in the middle of a small case. In some of the smaller performance builds I've done for coworkers, it was easier to mount a single 120mm or 140mm radiator in the case than try to fit something like a Noctua U14S. For my personal builds, I like to mount the radiators outside, but that's not really an option unless you're doing a custom loop. In a small case, water is the only way to effectively get a near silent system without compromising performance. Once you move to the 2x120mm and 2x140mm sized radiator all in ones, you move past the better air cooling if you're looking for the best overclocks.
Fan considerations for water loops: The newest fans they ship with the Corsair units are still just decent, not phenomenal. However, at the lowest setting, they're effectively silent (below ambient from ~3 feet open air in the environments I've tested) and between 5V-12V there is no motor noise. One point that seems to have been missed in threads here is that with radiator fans, you're more interested in static air pressure than CFM. For radiator fans in the current crop that I've personally tested, I'd recommend the Cougar Vortex, the Gentle Typhoon AP-15, the Noiseblocker eLoop, or the Noctua Nf although I'd avoid the Gentle Typhoons if you're running at a full 12V since they exhibit a noticeable hum. I'd also knock the Noctua off the list as it's generally $5-10 more expensive than the competition.
If anyone else needs cooler recommendations at different price points and different applications, please feel free to ask here.
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I did not have great luck with the AIO Kuhler 620. The pump was very noisy (clicks, hums, and squeals), but it did a good job cooling. I tried all of the common fixes online without luck. I have one of those dumb motherboard layouts where if I use a decent air cooler for the CPU, it blocks off important PCIe slots. I made the mistake of switching back to an air cooler, the True Spirit 140. It's quieter, but I don't have the room I wanted (my fault for not checking first). It also does a piss poor job cooling an overclock 2500K for some reason. Tried remounting it several times, different paste, etc. Whatever, it's still stable and technically within safe limits.
On the other hand, I personally know several people running CM AIO water coolers for their CPUs, and I was impressed by how quiet they were even with the stock fans. Funny thing is, these guys weren't even OCing their stuff like I was.
My advice? Get an AIO cooler. Run it with the stock fan for a while to make sure the pump isn't borked like mine was. Sometimes this is an orientation issue if you get noise, sometimes not. Save some money and get one with a single fan, swap that out if it isn't great and use two nicer fans. Or just put in a 2nd fan. Push/pull makes a noticeable difference with temps.
I wouldn't worry about leakage unless the manufacturer's warranty doesn't cover it. It usually does, but you shouldn't worry much about that anyway.
Realistically, you can get great performance through air or AIO water cooling setups. Just go with whatever works best for your setup.
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I made the mistake of switching back to an air cooler, the True Spirit 140. It's quieter, but I don't have the room I wanted (my fault for not checking first). It also does a piss poor job cooling an overclock 2500K for some reason. Tried remounting it several times, different paste, etc. Whatever, it's still stable and technically within safe limits.
If you're still using it, check the bottom and see if the paste is evenly spread across the base, or if it seems mostly on one area or another. If the base isn't making good contact, the paste won't spread properly. It's possible that the base wasn't finished properly from the factory. A good tower cooler should be able to basically match a single 120 or 140 closed loop water cooler, and come within maybe 5 degrees C of a dual 120 or 140.
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The cooler is definitely on there with good paste spread. Might not be a perfect match for the Fractal Define R4, but everything else runs nice and cool. :-\
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My experience over the years is that the main function of CPU fans is to make a rattling noise...