CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Main Deck => Discussion for Registered Members Only => Topic started by: dreamwhisper on November 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM

Title: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: dreamwhisper on November 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
Is there any point in owning an HD600 if you own a SR-007 and KGSS-HV?

And even if you don't, there's so many orthos near that price range, is it really still a standard for price: performance ratio?

Or has that moved to modified T50rp's and other orthos? (Hifiman, PM1, LCD2)
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: donunus on November 18, 2014, 01:31:57 PM
hd600s are still nice to me. I like them more than the he6 for example
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Thujone on November 18, 2014, 01:37:51 PM
The HD600's perform very differently from the planar headphones you've listed. I prefer them over a lot of higher end gear.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Claritas on November 18, 2014, 03:57:29 PM
Probably not.

Yes. And some OOP stuff is also for me.

No. I'd take HD600 over half the stuff you mentioned; maybe all, if you'd been more specific.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: aufmerksam on November 18, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
I have to agree, they are still excellent for many reasons. Several years back, I bypassed dynamics when stepping up to the "higher tier", and went straight for HE-500, tried mad dogs, thinking "finally planars are here!" and "planars are mechanically superior so..."

In the last year I have re-immersed, I broke down and picked up HD600, and re-bought DT880 (and also a Valhalla 2, which has helped), and I have to say the 600 is still very relevant (as is to a lesser degree the 880). It sounds different when compared to planars, and it also sounds good. It lets me hear tracks differently, which I like, and which is helpful when evaluating new gear. (This isn't meant to be a planar bashfest: I have and enjoy the HE560.)

As for the price:performance issue, I think it is still worth the asking price, but it is easily found on sale for close to $300, so it is worth watching for those sales.

Also, I think it matters as a common point in the shared experience: it is VERY difficult to form a basis for comparison, especially when starting out in this hobby, due to the lack of local headphone warehouses. The fact that so many have listened to this headphone and will be able to articulate how something differs from it, increases its value.

Now, the above little tirade about community literacy is not the definitive reason to buy/acquire/sample the HD600. It is actually sounds very good and performs very well. Even after I got the HD800, which have dominated my ears in the last few months, I regularly put the HD600 back on, and remember "oh yeah..."

So in conclusion, always hammer a stuck splitting maul down through the log rather than trying to wiggle it back out, and the HD600 is not obsolete.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Sorrodje on November 18, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
Yes . its a more than 6 month old headphone. it's definitely obsolete and many headphones really crunch it.






















.. Just wanting to keep Used HD600 as low as possible mates
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on November 18, 2014, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: Sorrodje on November 18, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
Yes . its a more than 6 month old headphone.

Good grief, is it?

I just bought a pair. I really should have done more research  :)p13
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on November 18, 2014, 04:32:36 PM
Quote from: dreamwhisper on November 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
Is there any point in owning an HD600 if you own a SR-007 and KGSS-HV?

And even if you don't, there's so many orthos near that price range, is it really still a standard for price: performance ratio?

Or has that moved to modified T50rp's and other orthos? (Hifiman, PM1, LCD2)

The Stax mafia will likely tell you that if you own a SR 007 and the KGSShv, you don't need another headphone period.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: thegunner100 on November 18, 2014, 04:40:24 PM
I decided to keep my hd580s around even though I have a pair of modded he-560s. I still love how the hd580s sound and they make for a great pair of backup headphones just incase if I ever need.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: ultrabike on November 18, 2014, 04:42:15 PM
Not obsolete. Great performer and personally preferred it over all the stats I have heard so far. I can understand however if others find it's bass inferior to what some planars can provide. Or perhaps lesser in some technicalities vs some stats.

Could be wrong, but so far IMO the HD600 is one of the best all-around performers I have seen in the market.

Now based on Innerfidelity (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650-page-2) the HD600 time line appears to be HD580 (1993), HD580-Jubelee (1995), and HD600 (1997). One could make an argument about the HD650 being like an HD600mkII (2003).

The SR007 time line seems more like SR-Omega (1993), SR007mkI-Omega2 (1997), and SR007mkII (2008) based on these articles 1 (http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Stax_SR-007#SR-007_.28Omega_2.29_-_Overview), 2 (http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Stax_SR-%CE%A9).

Maybe I'm missing something but if we are going by logevity I guess the SR-Omega based line is as obsolete as the HD580 based line...

What I do get from all of this is that many (though not all) companies maybe more focused on looks and crazy differentiators than actual performance, and so that's what maybe seen in most FOTM "non-obsolete" offerings.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Mr.Sneis on November 18, 2014, 05:04:21 PM
Heya DW.  Wish I had the money to just hang onto every headphone or piece of gear I happen to like but the HD600's have stuck with me for a while.  Obsolete is a relative term; they aren't as good as the HD800 at many things but that doesn't detract from their charm - very much worth having both on hand for instance.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: RexAeterna on November 18, 2014, 06:16:21 PM
Speakers and headphones has been made the same way since the 60's....so everything audio(except digital stuff) is pretty obsolete by now I guess...oh well though. Stuff  I own that's older than me I think sounds really good so I like obsolete.

I wouldn't say dynamic, planer, electrostatic sound too different from each other. They just have different dispersion patterns on what gives them that kinda different presentation. Electrostatic and planers tend to have lower distortion on avg but dynamics or correctly called electro-dynamic drivers can have just as clean ratings....but too much of that...soooo, yea. HD600 not obsolete,  just different design like every other thing audio.

Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Anaxilus on November 18, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
Having an HD600 is a good reference when comparing to the latest $1000K FOTM or different transducer types like planars and stats.  It's a really good way to compare and see what you gain or giveup with each.  The fact after all these years they can still be considered a sort of reference phone against so many pricey competitors speaks volumes. 

Also good for seeing how different amp capabilities can impact a headphone's sound.

__________

I don't quite agree that stats give a different sound just because they are super clean, though what can make them superclean can contribute to sounding oddly wispy.  Even different sounding stats like Stax, Martin Logan, Magnapan and Sanders all have that stat ethereal Hollow Man sound. At least to my ears.

HDxx
(http://josmarlopes.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/hollow-man-darkrealmfox-com.jpg)

Stax
(http://mikeyb185.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/wpid-1264781547-hollowman1.jpg)

Audeze/Abyss
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu358/The405_photo/405%20NEW/405%20Art/hollow_man_zps50971a0f.jpg)
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: OJneg on November 18, 2014, 07:05:22 PM
Quote from: Anaxilus on November 18, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
(click to show/hide)

omg I can't breathe  :)p13 :)p13 :)p13
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Marvey on November 18, 2014, 08:06:04 PM
I'll take an HD600 + well executed DHT headamp over KGSS + anything. Heck, I might take an HD600+Balanced B22 or even an HD600+Valhalla2 over KGSSHV + anything. But that's just me. I am not a fan of the KGSSHV.

I like the sound of dynamic drivers with traditional voice coils. The technology is simpler and this opens up a huge universe of amps. I like to think that the HD600 is different from KGSS + STAX. Whether it's better or not is a matter of taste. Because it's different and not necessarily less, the HD600 is still viable. Those who have heard HD600 with a suitable amp knows how great it can sound.

In fact, I am going to fucking buy an HD600 right now.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Sorrodje on November 18, 2014, 08:25:02 PM
Quote from: marvey on November 18, 2014, 08:06:04 PM
In fact, I am going to fucking buy an HD600 right now.

LOL !!  After New old stock Tubes , that's a New Old Hype !

I'm personally considering to buy a HD650.  I think I'm fan of this lush Sound sig and the HD650 really shines too when it's well amped.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Solderdude on November 18, 2014, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: dreamwhisper on November 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
Is there any point in owning an HD600 if you own a SR-007 and KGSS-HV?

Yes, if you want to hear a more neutral sound now and then.
No, if you REALLY  like the SR007 over other headphones.

Quote from: dreamwhisper on November 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
And even if you don't, there's so many orthos near that price range, is it really still a standard for price: performance ratio?

It can't be a standard in price/performance ratio as that ratio sucks for this system.
There are other much lower priced systems that have a far better price/performance ratio.

Some feel the SR007 MAY be a standard for maximum performance but to most pirates it probably isn't.

Quote from: dreamwhisper on November 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
Or has that moved to modified T50rp's and other orthos? (Hifiman, PM1, LCD2)

That will depend on WHO you ask.
Some will claim (modded) T50RP's are max price perf ratio, a few may even claim nothing sounds better.
The same is true for HiFiman's (name them all except the cheapies), PM1, PM2, or whatever Audeze.

In the end it doesn't matter WHAT other people may find 'best' sounding at all.
it is YOU that have to really like the sound.

Perhaps you can get by with one headphone (if one had to) in that case I would take MY HD650 on MY amp.
Others may very well be happy with the KSC75 + X1 where others would prefer a very expensive tube or SS amp + headphone.

Listen for yourself on the music YOU like and take others peoples advise for what it is (including mine)
Personal choices usually constrainted by a budget.

As for the question whether or not the HD600 is obsolete ?
I don't think so, most pirates don't think so and Sennheiser doesn't think so.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: JoelT on November 18, 2014, 10:32:28 PM
Interesting post. I've gone back and forth over whether or not I should sell my HD600 (I use the HD800 primarily), but ultimately decided that it'd be a mistake for the following reasons:

- It's a very well known reference, and probably worth keeping around for this reason alone.
- Resale value is quite low, price/performance ratio is insanely high.
- The HD600 scales like a motherf*****. I still haven't heard it at it's best, and I'd like to continue listening to it as I move in to better upstream gear.
- I really like it's slightly relaxed sound signature, and feel it'd be a great choice for a secondary bedroom setup.

Wonderful headphone.  :)p1
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: AustinValentine on November 19, 2014, 03:02:10 AM
I can say one thing: you get an even bigger appreciation for the HD600 after you listen to HD540 Reference. I had a 300ohm model 540 and the leap between the two is just completely incredible. The HD540 is *shrill* and papery sounding. I'm not sure what their R&D did to make the giant move between the two...but whatever they were paid for the work, it wasn't enough.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: takato14 on November 19, 2014, 06:45:02 AM
depends

SR-007 MKI, yes

MKII or MKIII, probably not
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: zerodeefex on November 19, 2014, 06:50:41 AM
Well, I owned the SR-007 MK1 (a great pair, I believe S1 replaced his pair with them) and the KGSSHV.

I no longer own them but I do have HD600s (that should tell you something).
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: wnmnkh on November 19, 2014, 06:59:34 AM
I still do not see any headphones (besides Philips Fidelio X2) that can replace HD600/650.

One good thing is that it seems Sennheiser won't discontinue these two for a while. (from a new packaging they got). I still have extra spare HD600 and HD650 somewhere on a storage space in my house... I got them when I was afraid of these two being discontinued (it was heavily rumored several years ago).
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Sorrodje on November 19, 2014, 07:29:19 AM
Yup. that's always good news when a manufacturer like Sennheiser keeps alive its headphones more than a few month. A potential buyer can be sure its purchase won't be outdated a few weeks or month later.  Even 300 or 400$ is already a lot of money for most of us so spending that kind of money in a durable thing is a very good point.

Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on November 19, 2014, 10:26:56 AM
Last night I was listening to some not-very-nice buzzing violin high notes on my HD600s and getting rather worried. I got them from Amazon USA, and carried to India for me by a friend-in-law. I'm sure that warranty claims would be, at the least, a hassle. I swapped the channels; the slightly improved sound I put down to my known-unbalanced hearing, but the buzzing also moved, so this could not be a single-driver issue. I moved on to another album: sound clear and correct, and the fault must have been with that recording. Phew. It is not a recording that I've had for long, so I can't say for sure that the HD600s revealed it where others wouldn't.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Hroðulf on November 19, 2014, 11:08:32 AM
The obsolescence question really lies in the issue of bass. Bass quality on the HD600 can be easily bested by most orthos, yet you might end up losing some top end. I replaced my HD650 with a Paradox and that meant trading midrange distortion for better and more bass.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: dreamwhisper on November 20, 2014, 02:06:13 AM
Quote from: marvey on November 18, 2014, 08:06:04 PM
In fact, I am going to fucking buy an HD600 right now.

That's hilarious, well played.

I just bought an HD800 and HD558, but if you average it, it comes to HD679. pretty close.

I want to hear an HD600 one of these days.
Maybe when my modded YH100 is fixed I'll do a temporary trade with someone.
But for now I can take your guys word for it that it doesn't suck :)

Speaking of price: performance, these old Yamaha YH100's really are a pretty amazing value. (they used to go for $150)
I always thought the YH100 bass sounded basically flat to 20 Hz.
It's nice to see my findings confirmed with data since low frequencies are hard for me to hear.

I thought the Shure SRH840 were flat-ish but couldn't tell there was a massive bass hump until I cranked up the volume one day.

Quote from: Hroðulf on November 19, 2014, 11:08:32 AM
The obsolescence question really lies in the issue of bass.

There may be a reason that there's an abundance of dynamic U-shaped fart cannons on the market.
My theory is that it's an overcompensation for high bass distortion in lower range headphones. (non-flagship)
I haven't heard many headphones with less than 1% measured distortion in the bass, other than the SR-007, which is probably one reason why I was so floored by them when I heard them.
Anyways, some of that depends on the listening volume etc. So YMMV.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Ringingears on November 20, 2014, 03:29:09 AM
My first Senn was an HD 650, when it first came out.  Have never been able to decide if I like the 600 more or less. I still have the 650. I get bored with it from time to time. Then I like my K701's, the originals. But after a week I hear what I hate about them. Same thing happens with speakers. Sometimes I go back to a pair of of Koss Pro 4AA's, my first headphone, which started me on this crazy journey. I'm hypothesizing here, but I think I like to change the sound to change the presentation of the music. Sometimes I think it's a mood thing. Doesn't matter really, it's the enjoyment of the music that matters most.

One of my favorite memories is listening to "Julia" off the White Album at a Bay Area meet on the EC Electra on a Stax 007 with Anax on a 009. If my memory still works. Anyway,  John was in the room! 

I have to agree that headphones have improved over the years, but all of them still are a work in progress. Price is not necessarily any indicator of SQ or if YOU like it. I just got some Senn HD239's for my iPad. I love them. Best sound ever? No but for work, they are great.

I think the 600's are one of the best cans still. Perfect? No. But no cans I've heard are.

For those who care the Pliny was 5 days old. Great stuff!!  :)p1
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on November 20, 2014, 03:49:06 AM
 
Quote from: dreamwhisper on November 20, 2014, 02:06:13 AM
That's hilarious, well played.

I just bought an HD800 and HD558, but if you average it, it comes to HD679. pretty close.



Ehhh dream, that's closer to the HD 650.... :)p13. I'm not at all sure that's the SQ Marvey wants...but who knows  ;)
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: GoldfishX on November 21, 2014, 03:36:22 AM
I sleep with mine on a lot. They are extremely comfortable and stay on my head. The price/quality ratio means it's not the apocalypse if I were to, say, roll over on them (I don't think I would ever try to fall asleep with the HD800's on).

Sometimes, they are just less stressful to put on and listen to than the HD800's. The size/fit of the orthos (and even a lot of the Beyers and Audio Technicas) is too much of an issue for me in most cases.

Definitely a worthy backup.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on November 21, 2014, 09:36:26 AM
In terms of neutrality, what do you guys think is a better choice between the HD 600 and the UERM. I've never heard an IEM but reading the thread on the latter, I'm intrigued. I do own the HD 800 (unmodded for now).
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: OJneg on November 21, 2014, 09:55:55 AM
UERM is closer in general tonality to the HD800 (bright up top). You can make your own conclusions from there.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on November 21, 2014, 10:00:26 AM
That's an easy conclusion then, isn't it?  :)
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: GoldfishX on November 21, 2014, 02:56:14 PM
You know what...After I replied to this thread, I figured, "what the hell" and I hooked up my Magni and the HD600's to my Sony HAP-S1. I set my library to "play all" and 3 hours later, there wasn't a single track I was disappointed with. Punchy, clean/detailed and basically no harshness. Very engaging (I listen a lot of 80's pop, so I was humming right along to quite a few choruses), very comfortable. I had been using the HD600 mostly out of the S1's headphone jack and the Magni really woke it up.

I'm between amps with the HD800, but if forced to, I could live with this pairing.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Sorrodje on November 21, 2014, 04:38:36 PM
I' sold my Modi/Vali to a friend who use the combo with his HD600 and he seems happy too.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Skyline on November 21, 2014, 05:25:41 PM
Quote from: Sorrodje on November 21, 2014, 04:38:36 PM
I' sold my Modi/Vali to a friend who use the combo with his HD600 and he seems happy too.
Right now I've got Modi/Vali/HE-400i which I love.

Before long, though, I'm going to have to give the HD600 a nice long listen to see which I prefer.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: CCS on April 04, 2015, 01:25:25 AM
I miss having an HD600. I will almost definitely get one again someday, so long as Sennheiser never does something stupid, like discontinue them.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Armaegis on April 04, 2015, 01:59:51 AM
Are the newer revisions "brighter" than the old ones? I had one (don't know the age) that I just traded away recently because it was really dark, moreso than ones I'd heard before.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: ultrabike on April 04, 2015, 04:06:09 AM
I dunno. FWIW I had some old HD580s alongside HD600s and they sounded pretty close to me...
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Armaegis on April 04, 2015, 05:01:38 AM
I've owned/heard a few HD580/600's over the years (I don't know why I keep trading them away... curiosity kills the cat I guess). I recently traded for another one but it was just super dark sounding. Not quite enough to make me feel like it was defective, and I couldn't really tell on a sine sweep, but I felt like I was missing all my upper energy. It was strange. Meh, I didn't think too much of it and just traded it away again (I think for an X2, which is also now gone). Oh well, I'll probably wind up with another one in the future.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: GoldfishX on April 04, 2015, 07:01:07 AM
At times, mine is too bright in the upper mids, almost shouty. I've considered switching to an HD650 as a result because my main use for the HD600 is to lay in bed and fall asleep. I usually atone for this by dropping the volume. It is most noticable on female vocals for me. It definitely doesn't come across as dark, but the image is certainly closed in.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on April 04, 2015, 07:05:03 AM
if obsolete (and its a big if), what is a worthy substitute ? Fidelio X2 (just throwing a name for starters)?
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: OJneg on April 04, 2015, 07:14:25 AM
Quote from: kothganesh on April 04, 2015, 07:05:03 AM
if obsolete (and its a big if), what is a worthy substitute ? Fidelio X2 (just throwing a name for starters)?

Too colored
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on April 04, 2015, 07:17:56 AM
OJ, finally saw a picture of you and Bill on IF... great to put a face (s) to the name(s)... Bill looks fresh off the crib man  :)p13.

Any other suggestions on the substitutes? I have the 800 and don't really want the 600.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Hammy on April 04, 2015, 07:50:24 AM
Quote from: GoldfishX on April 04, 2015, 07:01:07 AM
At times, mine is too bright in the upper mids, almost shouty. I've considered switching to an HD650 as a result because my main use for the HD600 is to lay in bed and fall asleep. I usually atone for this by dropping the volume. It is most noticable on female vocals for me. It definitely doesn't come across as dark, but the image is certainly closed in.

Are the earpads for your HD600 newish and firm or are the pads somewhat worn and squished?

Worn and squished pads result in more of that midrange shout.  New pads will lessen that.  At least with my HD600 which has the old drivers (I've owned it for about 15 years).
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Deep Funk on April 04, 2015, 08:46:22 AM
When you have to have a minimum listening set-up I would consider the HD650, HD600, K500 or (if possible a vintage) K240 series. Add a KSC75 for back up and you should be fine.

I mention the AKGs because I like the AKG midrange and its transition to the highs more. For low end and balanced sound Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic are really good. The DT250-250 is a very good headphone but comfort is a slight issue.

Next up a DT150 so maybe my opinion will change...
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on April 04, 2015, 05:44:48 PM
Are the HD600s dark? I really don't have enough headphone experience (they are my second pair of serious 'phones) to say, but the way I feel is... they showed me how much bass is missing from my speakers! Especially, of course, the small ones on the desk.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Deep Funk on April 04, 2015, 08:46:56 PM
Dark? Depends on you preferences for the rendition of sub-bass, mid-bass and upper-bass frequencies and how the the low end transitions into the midrange and on how the low end rendition influences the overall balance of the sound of your headphones.

The HD600 is not known to be a sub-bass monster but it does not have to be if it suits your preferred sound signature.

Besides I prefer the AKG K500-sound so many headphones quickly sound thicker or darker to my ears. Trust your ears I would say.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Riotvan on April 04, 2015, 11:30:23 PM
Ah, the HD600.. My first serious headphone i got ehh 14 years ago? Along with a nice custom tube amp, needless to say both are still in the family and getting daily use. One of the best investments i ever made in this hobby.

I think for anything to replace it as a reference classic it has to be around for a good long while and still remain relevant. The problem with that is that that spot is still held by the 600 imo, maybe the 800 is getting there but it's got some way to go even after the 600 is discontinued which i don't see happening anytime soon.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: OJneg on April 05, 2015, 01:20:13 AM
Interesting thing about the HD600....it's my preferred headphone for listening to new music for the first time. I really feel like I'm getting the most honest interpretation of any given recording...despite the fact that my HD800 has more clarity, resolution and space. Funny how that works.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: GoldfishX on April 06, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Hammy on April 04, 2015, 07:50:24 AM
Are the earpads for your HD600 newish and firm or are the pads somewhat worn and squished?

Worn and squished pads result in more of that midrange shout.  New pads will lessen that.  At least with my HD600 which has the old drivers (I've owned it for about 15 years).

It's funny, I was checking around the HD600 measurements thread and a lot of people were saying the same thing. Now I'm debating if I want to buy a pair of $60-$70 pads for a classic, but cheap backup headphone. Hmm, decisions, decisions...might be an excuse to switch to an HD650. My ears are super sensitive to that 3K-4K boost/peak, I was able to learn. Since I bought mine used, now I'm paranoid that I've always been hearing it with the peak.

Do you think it might just be a dampening thing for the part that covers the driver?

Edit: Also, I BELIEVE mine have "silver drivers" in them. Not 100% sure what that means, but I think they are newer? Not as dark sounding?
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: DefQon on April 06, 2015, 11:04:29 PM
White/silver drivers yeah after the silent change Sennheiser did back in late 06-07? Some people who have owned the older ones and new ones including myself find it a bit more cleaner sounding i.e not as dark/warm/laid back/too lush etc.

Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Armaegis on April 06, 2015, 11:25:27 PM
So white/silver is the newer version, and black is the older one?
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on April 07, 2015, 10:17:12 AM
Your friendly local pedant says...

It can't be "obsolete," as it is still on sale and being produced. It might be obsolescent.

 >:D :)p7 :)p13
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: kothganesh on April 07, 2015, 11:46:34 AM
Oh go play with the grandchild.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on April 07, 2015, 05:30:45 PM
She punched me in the face yesterday: I'm sore!
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: riker1384 on April 09, 2015, 07:17:15 AM
Quote from: GoldfishX on April 06, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
It's funny, I was checking around the HD600 measurements thread and a lot of people were saying the same thing. Now I'm debating if I want to buy a pair of $60-$70 pads for a classic, but cheap backup headphone. Hmm, decisions, decisions...might be an excuse to switch to an HD650. My ears are super sensitive to that 3K-4K boost/peak, I was able to learn. Since I bought mine used, now I'm paranoid that I've always been hearing it with the peak.

You can buy the HD650 drivers for around $90 a pair and install them in the HD600 frame. It's easy to do, no tools required except maybe a guitar pick, but it takes a few minutes which means you can't quickly switch them to compare. (Maybe switch one driver and compare the L/R?)

I put HD650 drivers and grills in my HD580. I honestly am not sure how different they sound. Whatever the differences are, they are small in comparison to the difference between the and other phones I had at the time. (HP50, Paradox.)
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: lm4der on April 09, 2015, 01:38:53 PM
Quote from: Armaegis on April 06, 2015, 11:25:27 PM
So white/silver is the newer version, and black is the older one?

Yeah, zactly.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: atomicbob on April 09, 2015, 05:01:58 PM
Quote from: Sorrodje on November 18, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
Now, the above little tirade about community literacy is not the definitive reason to buy/acquire/sample the HD600. It is actually sounds very good and performs very well. Even after I got the HD800, which have dominated my ears in the last few months, I regularly put the HD600 back on, and remember "oh yeah..."
Agree. Have heard most of the ultra uber headphones, own some of them. I still enjoy the HD600 with BH Crack several evenings each week. The HD600 is my goto can for voiceover editing, though I use it then with a V800 / V200 combination.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: BlackenedPlague on April 10, 2015, 01:30:43 AM
How could you even ask that question? The HD600's are monolithic and a studio monster

With proper power and EQ they are indespensible
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: spoony on April 10, 2015, 04:32:10 AM
Not exactly about the HD600, but you guys might find this (http://diyah.boards.net/post/12839/thread) interesting. I'd comission one in a heartbeat if I had a pair.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Azteca X on April 10, 2015, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: spoony on April 10, 2015, 04:32:10 AM
Not exactly about the HD600, but you guys might find this (http://diyah.boards.net/post/12839/thread) interesting. I'd comission one in a heartbeat if I had a pair.

Wowza. Solderdude mentions he can also make the subbass flat. That is crazy FR. Of course, it would be single purpose. But damn. And not having to EQ digitally. I don't plan on getting of my 600 no matter what the circumstance so it might be worth it. Time for a PM, me thinks...
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: AustinValentine on April 10, 2015, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: Azteca X on April 10, 2015, 01:45:19 PM
Wowza. Solderdude mentions he can also make the subbass flat. That is crazy FR. Of course, it would be single purpose. But damn. And not having to EQ digitally. I don't plan on getting of my 600 no matter what the circumstance so it might be worth it. Time for a PM, me thinks...

Yeah, I really want Kameleon add on for Project Ember. It's crazy what he can do with those things.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: spoony on April 10, 2015, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: Azteca X on April 10, 2015, 01:45:19 PM
That is crazy FR. Of course, it would be single purpose.
The Kameleon is multi-purpose, but there's also some sort of convenience in carrying a small box (SeNNator) to drive the HD6XX above their natural potential along with the headphones.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Deep Funk on April 10, 2015, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: spoony on April 10, 2015, 03:50:25 PM
The Kameleon is multi-purpose, but there's also some sort of convenience in carrying a small box to drive the HD6XX above their natural potential along with the headphones.

His HD650 does not sound like a premium headphone any more. Is was good enough to keep my toes tapping and I did not expect that.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: spoony on April 10, 2015, 04:24:04 PM
What does it sound like now, music?
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: hucifer on April 13, 2015, 04:06:27 AM
Definitely not.

I've tried a lot of TOTL headphones thus far and none of them have wowed me enough (in terms of both comfort and sound) to replace the HD600 as my day-to-days. Their only glaring weakness (IMO) is bass extension. I'm now looking at the SeNNator with interest  p:0
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Deep Funk on April 19, 2015, 09:10:31 AM
Quote from: spoony on April 10, 2015, 04:24:04 PM
What does it sound like now, music?

If you are asking me, here is my answer.

His HD650 sounds like a good speaker set up or intimate live band playing with warmish sound signature and everything sounds in balance. The midrange sucks you in and there is enough extension in the low end and top end to give you an overall sense of detail.

Only a few headphones and set ups have managed to convey what Solderdude's set up achieved in my experience: the AKG K240 DF, the HD250 II Linear and sometimes the Pioneer Monitor 10. 

My experience with headphones is limited. Yet his set up almost made me decide to sell the AKGs and go HD650 + Kameleon. My budget is too limited.
Title: Re: Is HD600 obsolete?
Post by: Rabbit on April 19, 2015, 10:55:48 AM
Frans sent me a Kameleon to listen to and imo, the sub-bass is just sublime. He also trimmed the mid bass hump, so that the treble, although not touched by the filter becomes more defined as a result due to a better bass balance.

The one that he sent me was mains driven, but the one that is being sold is battery driven. It's rechargeable and meant to be portable amp. I wasn't keen on that and Frans had made a mains driven one which is the one that he sent to me to hear.

There is a separate module about to appear that will fit behind the Garage1217 amps. In effect, a mains driven Kameleon which might be worth waiting for.

He's sending me a SeNNator very soon since I liked the filtering so much. The SeNNator is dedicated to the headphone and is mains driven. Slightly improved I think as well. He's only made two of them and I don't think he plans to make any more. It was just a result of me saying on our forum that I'd be prepared to pay money for a dedicated Senn HD650 amp after hearing the Kameleon.

I believe that you may get a chance to hear the other SeNNator at the next meet that's coming up? Not sure.

As far as the title of this thread goes, I don't see why the HD series should be regarded as obsolete myself. The sound is just as good as it always was and I must admit, after going to more flashy sounding headphones, I always return to the Senns and feel a kind of 'comfort' in their sound. They are nicely balanced.

I have an HD600 and two HD650s and still use them both a lot tbh. Beautiful via a Kameleon which really brings sub bass into the picture and imo takes it into another league.