CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => Random Thoughts => Topic started by: ohhgourami on August 19, 2014, 07:49:29 PM
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I'm thinking about getting my first handgun after I went to the shooting range for the 2nd time. I've shot a rented UPS 9mm, M&P 45, and some kind of 40 cal (I think). I didn't feel like I had any issues handling any of the guns, but I seemed to have shot the best groupings with the 9mm. My goals in owning a gun is for range shooting and possibly home defense. I think it would be cool to take advanced classes for handguns later on too.
If I were to go with a handgun, I'd probably stick with 9mm since it's a lot cheaper than 40 and 45 cal ammo. I've been doing a bit of research on what's a good range gun and the CZ 75 SP-01 seems to be a favorite. I see there's a modified version called the Shadow with a lighter trigger pull and shorter reset which also comes with fiber optic sights but it's not on the CA DOJ list. I found a site that can do mods on CZ's, but don't know if that's legal in CA.
Looks like I'll end up spending ~1k for gun and all these accessories (ammo, paperwork, safe, etc). Or I could go cheap and buy a much cheaper gun, but I'm not sure if it will shoot as well. Not sure if I want this on a whim or will I further pursue shooting as a hobby. My personality tells me I'll get kinda serious about this. As someone born in the US, I've never felt that "American", but nothing seems more like being 'Murican than owning a gun.
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By all means, go for it. But just a couple of warnings:
- If you’re OCD like me, cleaning and storing these will take some of the fun out of it. In fact before you go shooting you may find yourself asking, “Do I really want to clean these afterwards?” And you will want to keep your guns clean and protected from the atmosphere especially if you buy something decent. Also keep in mind that the more you have, the more you’ll need to maintain.
- Sometimes buying a gun is sort of like buying a boat. It seems like a good idea at first…
Like Marv said in the chat box, “Actually I have a .40S&W P226 locked away somewhere.” That probably hints at how often he uses it. Same thing here. You end up taking them out every few years just to keep them oiled; then back they go.
And oh yeah- the first gun I shot was a S&W 422 (22LR). That was fun! You can rapid fire the thing with minimal recoil and the ammo was dirt cheap. I guess you could say it was my UE-TripleFi gateway drug of guns. It was good for plinking and target practice. But I’d probably want something bigger if home protection is one of your objectives.
I haven’t been “into” guns in ages. But every time I pass by the magazine rack at the bookstore, it seems like very little has changed. I’m guessing that if you think you might be into modding or customizing your piece, the 1911 or its variants are still the way to go? I’m sure others will chime in.
:boom:
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Geez, I read the title and thought maybe you'd finally had enough with your idiot managers at work.
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If you plan on shooting a lot, I would seriously consider a .22 handgun for target practice. Ammo is cheap as fuck, readily available, and easy to shoot. I own a Ruger Target MK3.. really fun gun to plink around with and shoot at the range. For personal protection you are obviously going to want to have something more beefy. Ammo prices shouldn't be your first priority for this application. You need something with good control and stopping power. This decision is really what feels comfortable for you. 40, 45, 9... all have enough stopping power. For that purpose I have a HK USP 40cal.
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Let me guess: your Filipinos neighbors are after your Krell amp? :boom:
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HK .40 Cal is gorgeous, nice Greed. I just feel a lot of blowback with .40 cal. though. In the HK and the Beretta.
Some of it comes down to hand size as well. I shot the Desert Eagle .50 cal. but it is a hand CANNON for me.
For 9mm, I really like the feel/accuracy of Sig Sauer P226/P229. Rent one of those if you have the chance.
I happen to <really> like the feel of .45 ACP. (With 1911A-style handguns.) Just another data point...
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I want to echo a lot of what was already said.
1-Don't buy a gun based on cheap ammo. My first guns (Glock and HK USP) I bought when I was 21 I selected in 9mm due to international ubiquity and availability. Big mistake. I hate the 9mm. Too snappy and not the best ballistics either. So controlability and knock down power suffer IMO. .40 is better. Of course, I join the military and get issued a 9mm Beretta which was the biggest piece of shit I've ever fired. Marines are ditching the 92FS and going back to the 1911 and the Army seems to be following. I'm actually looking to sell my 9mms.
2-I used to love guns, but maintenance and cleaning is a bitch. After being in the military I almost never go shooting, the romance is out of it for me. Firearms are just professional and self-defense tools for me now. I'm at the point where I can be dead nutz accurate with any of my weapons for defense and never need to go the range except when some friends want to do down range. The only time I'd need to go kick off some rust and hit an outdoor range for a day or two would be to dial in at 500 yards or more in the elements using only iron sights on my AR. I'd say that's where you want to be at and should choose your gear accordingly. So pick something that's comfortable and accurate that you can pick up and use effectively at a moments notice.
3-First time I fired a 1911 .45 that was it. I knew that was the gun for me. Perfect control, perfect comfort for me, excellent ballistics (knock down power w/o over penetration), single stack so low profile and great grip.
4-Sig seems to possibly have some failure to feed issues on certain cases lately. I witnessed this too on my friends .40 226.
So get whatever is the most comfortable for you is a priority. Don't be a slave to the weapon, it needs to be an extension of yourself. But first decide what you want it for, hobby, defense, both, etc.
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The purpose of a gun is killing, not scaring. Get something powerful enough to kill in one shot to the torso.
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USMC Weapons Safety Rules:
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
A 5th rule was added later which says "know your target and what lies beyond."
Always imagine there's an imaginary tunnel between yourself and your intended target. The barrel of your weapon should always stay in parallel to that tunnel and the muzzle should never approach an angle which would break that plane. This is called 'flagging' which puts other people potentially in direct line of sight with your muzzle and therefore potential danger. You should be aware of this the second you are about to uncase your weapon.
Weapons conditions:
Condition 4:
No magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.
Condition 3:
Magazine inserted, no round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.
Condition 2: (does not apply to the M16 or M9 or many others)
For 1911 style actions only: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, hammer down
Condition 1: (for all except 1911 style action)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on safe, hammer down.
For 1911 style action: Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon on-safe, hammer cocked. Also referred to as "cocked and locked"
Condition 0: (not in current military usage, derived from LtCol Jeff Cooper's "modern method" for 1911)
Magazine inserted, round in chamber, bolt/slide forward, weapon OFF-safe, hammer cocked.
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Most modern military personal only refer to conditions 4,3, &1.
4: No mag, completely empty, on safe. The most inert condition.
3: Magazine inserted, but still mostly inert. This is the stardard carry condition except when involved in direct combat.
1: Used to refer to any weapon with a round in the chamber. Typically only used when use is imminent. The safety is always on except when actually engaging targets. Marine Corps policy is to return the weapon to safe after engaging targets and before moving. This becomes automatic. Condition 2 does not apply to current issue weapons.
When most folks refer to Condition 1, they mean there's a round chambered, and if applicable, the weapon is on safe. This is not universal as there are many different models and action types to which some Conditions may or may not apply.
Before you get to a range and at anytime you finish you should be Condition 4 with the exception of being 'at the ready' in case of personal defense and degree of threat. Anytime you receive or pass off a firearm, you MUST drop the clip and visually inspect the breech to ensure no round is chambered and that the weapon is on safe when appropriate.
Failure to abide by these basic rules will result in me or your Drill Instructor beating your ass to a pulp or you shooting an innocent person and going to jail or shooting yourself and dying. :)p5
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I think the first gun will be for most hobby. I've never been in a situation where I needed home defense before, but I think a 9mm is better than no gun. I'll probably end up picking up a .45 down the line for mostly home defense.
In the case of finding the most comfortable gun, sounds like I should find a shooting range with guns I'm planning to buy and try them out. I still have my eye set on that CZ 75 SP-01 though. Looks very comfy and supposed to have very low muzzle flip.
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In the case of finding the most comfortable gun, sounds like I should find a shooting range with guns I'm planning to buy and try them out.
Yes! There's too many intangibles to figure out without using the weapon. Once you settle on a few, put about 5 clips through each and whatever still leaves you feeling comfortable afterward, get it.
I do think a 9mm is a bad choice to start with tbh. You could easily develop a number of bad habits trying to cope with that round and will have to unlearn it later. If you go to a range and are able to put a full clip into a two inch grouping at 25 yards using a 9mm the first time, ignore everything I said about the 9mm.
Starting with a 9mm reminds me of people that get into aquariums by starting with fancy goldfish. WRONG!! ;)
If you do, see about something that has a 22LR conversion kit so you can hone your marksmanship if you end up needing it.
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hmmm this gun does have a 22LR conversion kit, but it's pricey. Still will try to find a gun I find comfortable with. I want to say it wasn't the .45 I couldn't shoot well, but technique and the sight. It was only my 2nd time shooting!
Don't get me started on aquariums. Been in the industry for over 10 years!
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I actually need something for the hiking trails here in Calabasas. But even open carry unloaded, Jerry Brown would put me in in jail.
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Ah, the days in the military. Yes, that military issued 9mm is a piece of shit. Thought about getting a firearm for the house, but doesn't fly with the spouse.
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That's why mine's locked up at the bottom of the sea.
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Maybe I should just buy a 22LR handgun for target practice first. If not, I'm starting to consider a .40
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Agree with Anax 100%...
My favorite carry weapon was the Glock 22 (,40 S&W), and my favorite target pistol the Colt 1911 Gold Cup (,45). As a backup i had a 38 Special Taurus (didn't like it, but easy to conceal).
In the military although i was not issued a pistol, target practice with the Colt 1911.
I never really liked the 9mm (currently i do fire a few magazines at the shooting club, when i go with friends, but this is not often)
I am currently in a country that firearms are not allowed for personal defense, and carry, to tell you the truth i don't miss at all the days i was carrying.
0,22 competition pistols are great fun, although i have very little experience with them.
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Too snappy and not the best ballistics either.
Funny... that's exactly how I felt about 9s in general. When I started gun shopping way back, friends of mine who were in the military convinced me to go .45 too. Intuitively you think it might be "too much". But like you said the 9mm seems to have a different kick to it and was definitely not as accurate (P226 vs P220). Hmm... maybe you're DAC impressions are legit too. :P
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You can go nuts with 22LR, pistol or rifle. If you're not buying for self defense, it's a great way to go.
There are some other hot rim fire rounds to consider as well. I love the .17 HMR and have built several super cool rifles for that round. Shoots flat to 200 yards. Crazy accurate. A bit more expensive, but in recent times often more available than .22LR.
I know where have been a few others introduced since I moved to "leave your guns back in the safe" land.
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Anax, what do you think of .40 S&W vs .45 ACP?
I found a shop and range in SD that has the gun I want to try so there's that.
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Anax, what do you think of .40 S&W vs .45 ACP?
I found a shop and range in SD that has the gun I want to try so there's that.
Can you try out both?
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I'll try all 3 then. It's just my hands are getting a bit too itchy!
I think I've already got my heart set on a handgun; it's not pondering anymore. I will pull the trigger (pun intended).
Now if the women in my life approve...
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Came back from the ranger earlier and shot a CZ 75B. It's an earlier revision of the SP-01 which isn't quite as stable. Anyway, I found it really easy to shoot and since it's all steel there was very little snap.
I want to lean anyway from .45 as that would be kinda pricey to do competition shooting. Competition shooting looks damn fun!
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What kind of competition are you interested in? IDPA? IPSC? If you're leaning towards wanting to shoot competitively you will want to consider that in your choice of pistols.
Shooting competitively was the second biggest reason I started to load my own ammunition. Besides what you need for the competition, you'll need a lot more ammo for practice. Setting up recipes for competition is a lot of fun.
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So did you shoot anything else? What kind of groups did you get? Beretta 92 has a steel frame. Probably stamped in China...
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Were in a rush with only 20 mins of range time. Only got a chance to shoot one gun. Kinda pissed at my friend since he took so damn long to get to dinner.
Most of my shots could be covered with my hand from 7 yards. Note this is only my 3rd time shooting. With a bit of training I know I can do a lot better. I wasn't paying attention to where the trigger creeped and reset either because we were so rushed.
Mike, take a look of pics of the gun - CZ 75 SP-01. The ergos are very 1911 since it was designed to be a better 191q. Reading around, it sounds like a Beratta 92 is a horrible gun to shoot. I still want to try a 1911 since it's such a classic gun but seems like 8 rounds puts it at a disadvantage for competitions.
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Went to the range again for 2 hours and tried A LOT of guns! Tried a Sig P226, 1911, USP 45, Glock 17, Springfield XD-9, CZ 75B, Sig P229 and USP 40.
Top 3 for me today in no particular order:
CZ 75B
XD-9
USP 45
I like the feel of these guns and how they shot the most. I was also the most accurate with these 3. I really disliked the 1911 (yeah I know) and dislike the Glock too.
Price and performance wise, the CZ 75 SP-01 (the gun I wanted from reviews) seems like the one for me. Maybe I'll get the .22LR conversion kit for it too to save on ammo.
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Anax, what's your opinion on getting a .22LR conversion kit to save money on ammo while learning to get much tighter groupings?
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Shoot a few thousand rounds and then do a 4-day defensive shooting course at Front Sight. :wheel:
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That CZ Tactical Sport is pretty sexy.
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Yeah the Tactical Sports IS damn sexy. SA with like a 1.5lb trigger pull.
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Hey Marv, we just talked about that 9 year old today. Remember what I said was the only weapon I'd let a child learn to shoot who was that young?
https://screen.yahoo.com/news/local-9-old-competitive-shooter-040300101.html?vp=1
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BANG! Found one and pulled the trigger. Now for the long wait.
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Finally next up in line for SSE (single shot exemption) so I drove over to 2A Zone in Rancho Cucamonga after work. Finally got my DROS started. If only I had a bit more patience, I would have saved a bit more time and money since they got a bunch in stock after I ordered mine from out of state. Had to pay FFL, SSE, and mag blocking fees, but overall wasn't much more and would have saved a week of time max.
Anyway, I took some pics while I was there.
(http://i.imgur.com/3zCkF8nl.jpg)
My CZ 75 SP-01 with an SSE barrel on top. The owner kindly let me fondle his GLORIOUS H&K MK23 on the bottom. Look at the size of that thing!
The big surprise is my CZ weighs just as much as an MK23.
(http://i.imgur.com/WA8wSrhl.jpg)
Now with a silencer attached! Man what a beauty!
Anyway, I get to pick up my baby next Saturday. Definitely taking it to the range that Sunday.
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Finally next up in line for SSE (single shot exemption) so I drove over to 2A Zone in Rancho Cucamonga after work. Finally got my DROS started. If only I had a bit more patience, I would have saved a bit more time and money since they got a bunch in stock after I ordered mine from out of state. Had to pay FFL, SSE, and mag blocking fees, but overall wasn't much more and would have saved a week of time max.
Anyway, I took some pics while I was there.
(http://i.imgur.com/3zCkF8nl.jpg)
My CZ 75 SP-01 with an SSE barrel on top. The owner kindly let me fondle his GLORIOUS H&K MK23 on the bottom. Look at the size of that thing!
The big surprise is my CZ weighs just as much as an MK23.
(http://i.imgur.com/WA8wSrhl.jpg)
Now with a silencer attached! Man what a beauty!
Anyway, I get to pick up my baby next Saturday. Definitely taking it to the range that Sunday.
Remind me never to annoy you :)
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It is not as if he has a Walther PPK and a license to kill p;)
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A bit more than 5 days to go!
Just need to get through the week at this miserable job.
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Got to play with the CZ's at a shop a few days ago, a friend was picking a LWRC AR. Overall it's pretty interesting piece. Probably one of the most well thought out 9mm's out there. Obviously a squat slide to keep the bore axis low for accuracy, but makes the slide a bit fickle to rack due to reduced surface area. I'm sure one could get used to this over time. Liked the slimmer grip than a typical 9mm double stack but still wider than my preference with 1911s. My friend had issues with the control placement bothering his hands, he's got big mitts and is dead accurate with my .50 DE. Didn't grate on me too bad compared to my first gen USP which is just terrible for comfort. My biggest gripes are the trigger pull which I didn't like very much, the considerable weight in a compact 9mm makes it feel more substantial than it is, has a slightly better than eastern european build, fit and finish but still noticeably below Sig, HK, Dan Wesson, even Glock IMO. I'm sure it can be a nail driver in the right hands though.
While I was there I molested a few 1911s: Rock Island, Kimber, Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson. Dan Wesson is amazing, reminded me of the old time original Swiss Sig build quality from 20 years ago when that was the Rolex of handguns. I'll be going with a Dan Wesson Valor unless I can find and test a Dan Wesson Titan Elite 10mm to sway me otherwise. I am concerned about over-penetration in an urban domestic environment with the 10mm however.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/jeremy-s/gun-review-dan-wesson-valor/
http://shootersmagazine.com/dan-wesson-the-titan-10mm/
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As much as I like big slow moving rounds like the .45, for instance I'm an avid .30/.30 loader and shooter, the 10mm has always been my preference because of the added velocity. In spite of seeming somewhat redundant I keep a Glock 20 and 21 for that reason. The 10mm is a beast of a round.
As for over-penetration, proper bullet selection will help control penetration and get the job done on the way.
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Another concern I have about the 10mm is considerably fewer choices for considerably more $$/round when trying to make that proper selection.
What velocity do you usually see on your 10mm? I've seen some .45 hitting in the 1100/1200 fps. I do like the 10mm added capacity as almost doubling capacity so reducing reloads by 50%. I also do like the larger .45 temporary shock/trauma cavity and larger wound channel though (around 0.10" typically).
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You can push a 10mm 200 grain bullet to 1200 fps easily. I don't feel the need to pack my stuff that hot, especially stuff that I'm just going to chew through at the range. I have a decent recipe that ends up around 1000-1050 fps and is very accurate.
You can jump up to 1300, 1400+ fps if you drop down to 135/155 grain bullets... I like to find a bullet that's accurate from my barrel and then fine tune from there.
I've never messed with the really small stuff, 46/50/96 grain etc... and I've never had much luck with accuracy using the big 230's.
Same goes for .45 rounds... there are always guys who are pushing the envelope with reloading recipes, hitting big velocities, but I tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to this stuff.
I have to agree with you on the ammo choices, and it was the reason I had a .45 before a 10mm. In fact, if I didn't reload, I'm not completely sure I'd have gotten one. Ammo is more $ and harder to find.
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Picked up my gun earlier and came back from the range not too long ago.
(http://i.imgur.com/s2Pu6q8l.jpg)
Anyway I was trying out a lot of different ways of shooting and getting used to the gun in general. I notice I have to put a lot of emphasis on my trigger pull or I'd jerk the gun. And this damn thing is heavy since my arms have become mush after college. Doesn't help that I'm trying to concentrate while aiming, but the longer I hold, the more I shake and tenser I get.
This was the best grouping I could shoot with my CZ SP-01 at 7 yards:
(http://i.imgur.com/sIQq1Lll.jpg)
Yup, I jerked the damn trigger on one shot. I love the ergos on this thing but the trigger is just horrid. It's so long and heavy. There will be a bunch of mods I'll be doing to this gun very soon! Most of the other clusters were just disappointing as I know this is supposed to be an accurate gun.
I bumped into an old high school buddy while at the range and he let me try his M&P 9mm with a fiber optic sight and 3.5lb trigger pull. This is the grouping I got at 7 yards:
(http://i.imgur.com/Nn8N7bXl.jpg)
That M&P is damn light compared to my CZ and was so easy to shoot. My arms wouldn't shake plus that fiber optic sight helped a lot. I was pretty pleased with myself. So the horrible shooting (not pictured) with my CZ was caused by the trigger, not me. I was actually getting quite discouraged by the end of the night until I shot that M&P.
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I have to agree with you on the ammo choices, and it was the reason I had a .45 before a 10mm. In fact, if I didn't reload, I'm not completely sure I'd have gotten one. Ammo is more $ and harder to find.
I was looking at this stuff. Rated at 1200fps but more like 1050-1100fps actual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=993wnaCd1XU
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OhG, square up and be in the ready pulled into your chest. Once you decide to shoot extend out and acquire your sight picture, aim and fire.
You just discovered two of the many important aspects to marksmanship. Muscle fatigue and a slow, steady consistent trigger pull. If you start to shake, relax, drop your arms and start over till ready.
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Holy shit! Never saw that vid you posted until now Mike! That's one hell of a round to get hit by!
Fully modded my gun. Some pics to show:
(http://i.imgur.com/7Bg3Po5l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/j1d4YtSl.jpg)
Excited to go to the range!
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^Are those V-Moda grips?
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^Are those V-Moda grips?
Ppfffff, V-Moda? Dr. Dre Beats representin'
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Sold my Glock 19! If anyone wants a HK USP in 9x19 let me know.
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More interested if you replied to my PM ;)
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More interested if you replied to my PM ;)
Sorry, missed that. Some of us have more pressing issues atm because California is stupid. I hate this fucking state.
poo poo poo
(http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/jerry-brown1-600x350.jpg)
:vomit:
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Sigh...how CA bans certain guns is ridiculous. Many nice off roster guns will go up 25% in price next year once SSE ends.
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Range report:
I'm been to embarrassed to post my groupings until now. As a new shooter, I have pretty much every possible issue, but I got most things working correctly tonight.
10 shots at 7 yards:
(http://i.imgur.com/kZvVF41l.jpg)
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Coming home soon.
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc451/dtgould1/IMG_1640.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j314/turbotension/Guns/IMG_0244.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/RussBert/Dan%20Wesson/DSC06809.jpg)
(http://arnzenarms.com/sites/default/files/product/firearm/Dan%20Wesson%20Specialist%201_2_0.jpg)
F**k You Jerry Brown, you PoS!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMkVsVmcgds
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Wow, it's been a long time since I updated this thread.
2 months ago I decided to ditch my CZ for a Dan Wesson PM-9 1911. It was my last SSE of 2014 and it's definitely quite a good one. The owner of the range noticed how serious I was about shooting well and decided to teach me himself at no charge. He also convinced me to switch to 1911's as it's the true shooters handgun as it's got the best trigger, ergos, and balance. He also gave my DW and amazing trigger job. I think Anax will be blown away by how good it is when I get the chance to let him dry fire it! Within a month, I was shooting 1" groups at 7 yards, 2.5" groups at 15 yards, and 4" groups at 25 yards. hmmm it's time to shoot 45acp!
(http://i.imgur.com/1NK99CMl.jpg)
Had a gripe about the shape of the Dan Wesson around the beavertail and thumb safety. Ended up getting a Sig 1911 Stainless because you get a lot for the price even though the gun is butt ugly. The eyes say no, but the hands say yes. Been talking to Anax about this issue for awhile but I can finally show it with a picture.
(http://i.imgur.com/MnnRqoXl.jpg)
Dan Wesson on the left; Sig on the right. Red markings show how the Dan Wesson is flatter which conforms less to the V of the hand.
Anyway, I had a trigger job done on the Sig too. Not quite as light as the Dan Wesson, but still very crisp. I shot my all time best groups ever yesterday with a dime sized hole at 7 yards ONE HANDED, then shot a 3" group from 25 yards with both hands.
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Ah, that's just a high ride/high grip cut. I thought you had problems with the beaver tail which the DW has more surface area to dissipate recoil and pressure. It's never bothered my hand's shape, but the high grip will get better purchase and lower bore axis when combined with a flat trigger. I think your A1 MSH already presses on your palm elevating the muzzle a bit to compensate for shooting low and re-centering the trigger curve to your finger.
My plans have Wilson Combat conceal grips safety and hammer incoming with a round butt speed chute that needs to get drilled for a lanyard. Extended slide stop and mag release too to go with a 10-8 or SVI flat trigger. I want the 10-8 but it only comes in one size. I'd like a shorter trigger. Been looking at the new Surefire XC-1 rail light, but it might be too wide being designed around the Glock 19 shape. 1.18" is too fat for the 1911 I think. I'd also like a tungsten FLGR with a flat spring but that would have to be custom done and be rather costly.
Next will be a carburized or ferritic nitrided carbon steel compensated 5.5"-6" slide chambered in .460 Rowland custom fitted to my current frame. That'll be the Boar and Bear gun for hiking.
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I'm going to leave this entertaining read here:
https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/posts/1608327346045802
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Are you two speaking some sort of Asian language? facepalm
Words and all is great, but how does it sound? p:/
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I got skinny girl hands so the high grip cut makes the edge sharp. I think the thumb safety could have a but more work done on it to alleviate it. I've actually been thinking of selling it to fund a sporting clays shotgun but it's still such a sweet shooting and looking gun.
I think you need a medium length trigger. Medium is perfect for me and our hands are similar size. This is so important for comfort! Can't shoot correctly if anything distracts you from focusing on the front sight!
Any benefit in having a flat spring over round?
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I'm going to leave this entertaining read here:
https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/posts/1608327346045802
I'm an AR-15 shooter, thanks to my father raising me as such. As far as I can see, this B-ATF&E consideration is them just doing their job for their boss. M855 will probably not get the ban treatment because it doesn't fit the statutory requirements/definition of ban-worthy. Also, the news at first was reporting this ammo being used in a handgun. Anybody know of a handgun that can shoot .223 and actually look like a handgun and be wielded like a handgun?
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I'm an AR-15 shooter, thanks to my father raising me as such. As far as I can see, this B-ATF&E consideration is them just doing their job for their boss. M855 will probably not get the ban treatment because it doesn't fit the statutory requirements/definition of ban-worthy. Also, the news at first was reporting this ammo being used in a handgun. Anybody know of a handgun that can shoot .223 and actually look like a handgun and be wielded like a handgun?
Nope, not a one. That's why it was obviously a political shot-in-the dark by their "boss" at 1600 Penn Ave. Disregard the fact that a steel tip is NOT the same as a steel core, and "hunting purposes" is irrelevant to anything. Plus the absence of any FBI statistical data to support of any of their claims about this 'scary' ammo. Which btw is a NATO round approved by the Geneva Convention. facepalm
I love all the clear, deliberate and educated logical responses to the ATF (many by law enforcement whom the administration was trying to paint as on their side ::) ). The proposed ban is dead because of the responses on the thread I linked. 60,000+ comments and 52 Senators actively opposing this BS idea. Shows you the sneaky lengths and out of control govt. run by a authoritarian executive will go to circumvent the rights of it's citizens.
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I think you need a medium length trigger. Medium is perfect for me and our hands are similar size. This is so important for comfort! Can't shoot correctly if anything distracts you from focusing on the front sight!
Any benefit in having a flat spring over round?
Wasn't I the one that told you about comfort and relaxation for shooting? Kind of one of the first things they teach every Marine at the rifle range. Well, my fingers are longer and palms meatier. Problem is the 10-8 flat trigger is the same length at center as the stock trigger which is kind of medium by default. I do not find that length comfy at all tbh.
Flat wire springs rule:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itlvUQeC6yw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJRbaLDUk4A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZQUYGbGmr4
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The stock trigger on my PM-9 is considered a long one. The new trigger on it is a medium as labeled in the bag it came in. New trigger is definitely shorter than the stock one, but isn't a short trigger which I've also held.
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Been working on recoil management for the past few weeks but it finally really "clicked". The body needs to relax and but the left hand needs to keep tension and forward contact with the meat of the palm. Keep consistent tension as you follow through after the gun has fired. Then relax a bit and tension up again once you are ready to fire the next shot. Comfort, speed, and accuracy went up to another level once I was able to apply these things. It took me awhile to trust the concept and myself but it worked after I did. Oh and this is with 45acp which I struggled with for awhile. I was sort of able to do what I can do now a month back using 9mm, but I think I really got it.
Just a bit of rambling because I'm so satisfied with my trip to the range tonight. Seems so easy once I got the right feeling now though!
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Man the 1911 feels so good in my hand. I had completely lost any feeling about firearms after 6 years of BS in the military. This 104 year old John Moses Browning design is just the cat's meow for me. Just a natural extension of my body and so positive and accurate in operation. This Dan Wesson is like the Omega Speedmaster of firearms. Might have to get one to match the 1911.
:)p1
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I still think you'll find the arched MSH will make it even more comfy.
(http://i.imgur.com/jdp8J0Ul.jpg)
Look at how well this fits in my hand! Very important how I have my thumb.
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I still think you'll find the arched MSH will make it even more comfy.
(http://i.imgur.com/jdp8J0Ul.jpg)
Look at how well this fits in my hand! Very important how I have my thumb.
I told you, I tried it and didn't like it. I do like the slide release on that Sig though but it's cast so I likely won't put it on the DW.
What's so special about your thumb?
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Some people press down on the thumb safety while shooting. That changes the way I shoot and leads to inaccuracy. Mine is just floating there nice and relaxed.
I've hit another plateau recently. I'm not able to track the slide yet and have a hard time watching the front sight even as the gun goes bang. Groupings won't get better til I can do that I think.
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That looks so uncomfortable...
I can shoot accurately with the high ride safety grip, no prob. It's a matter of user error in applied pressure. You can buy a low ride thumb safety to bring your thumb more inline with the bore axis if need be. I can go with or without the safety grip. For tactical use I just shoot normally and these are my grips so you can see where my thumb would be for SD.
(http://missiontactical.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x1200/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/a/mag524-blk-2.jpg)
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The area around the cut out in the grips is where I normally apply pressure with my left palm manage recoil. I'd slip with that cut out. Looks very uncomfortable to me. Does that mean you interlock your thumbs too?
The technique I was taught relies on natural positions. The thumb should be up and free because we shake people's hands with our thumbs up, not wrap around from the side. Wrapping the thumb as round the grip also puts tension on our index finger.
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I've never shook someone's hand with my thumbs pointing straight up, I don't know if that's a new thing the kids are doing. Depends on how many hands I'm using and in what situation. It can rest in the detent if shooting one handed ready for a mag change, or while resting on my opposite grip with every possible knuckle or thumb towards the target. Whatever I do has to translate to all my guns, including sub compacts.
If someone is shooting at me, I don't plan on standing in isosceles in the middle of the street for 10 minutes like I'm at the range so some gang-banger or haji can plug me while I execute my perfect range technique. I really don't intend to practice a weak four finger one-handed grip with my thumb pointed at the sky for SD applications.
Evolution gave me opposable thumbs to put me on top of the food chain. I intend to keep it that way for as long as possible.
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I'm not even going to bother debating on what's wrong and right about shooting. We can simply show each other how we shoot and leave it at that because I can't shoot the way you do.
What we can agree on is bettering ourselves at shooting and our love for 1911's. Still I hope the venue for the next meet is less public so we can fondle each others 1911s.
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I'm not even going to bother debating on what's wrong and right about shooting. We can simply show each other how we shoot and leave it at that because I can't shoot the way you do.
No kidding. I thought this was a given. We don't have the same genetics, the same physiology, the same background or even the same purpose for owning a firearm. Yet you keep telling me I need a 1.5lb trigger, an arched MSH and my thumb needs to point up at the sky to be correct. That sounds like a debate to me. Well, that's cool, whatever works, to each their own. I'm not ever going to become an HE6+Krell user bro. ;) :-* If you think audio is subjective and personal, firearms and defense is far more so.
That said, we can share info as long as it's not presented dogmatically. We don't need the gun thread to become hydrogenaudio. You're always welcome to swing by my place and check some stuff out btw or grab a bite.
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Haven't made any updates in a long time now.
Still been practicing about 1.5x a week, but progress as slowed. I'm becoming a better shooter but results aren't showing on my targets. My recoil management has gotten a lot better and so has my rhythm when shooting. The way I'm standing as I picked up a habit if tilting my head down has been fixed. Also been working on getting myself to pull the trigger once I acquire my target instead of stalling thinking I'm not ready. A lot of mental barriers and subtle things.
I've also been on a bit of a slump as I wasn't able to land shots right on top of each other for the past couple weeks and got frustrated. Knowing that I'm getting better yet results look worse have been borderline depressing.
Today I made a major breakthrough with my results!
(http://i.imgur.com/1YaNDXvl.jpg)
After I got fed up, I stopped thinking so much and got myself much more relaxed. Fired a couple rounds with my trigger hand and figured being very very relaxed but the pulls were deliberate. Above is 10 shots from 15 yards. Normally I'd land 5 shots very well grouped and get 5 others that aren't so tight which means I was off focus 50% of the time (was much worse recent and can see that in groupings on the right edge of pic). Consistently did better than that today too.
Just really happy with myself and wanted to share!
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Cool. So are you moving toward a faster instinctive shooting style now or just spending less time dealing with fatigue and compensation between rounds?
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Cool. So are you moving toward a faster instinctive shooting style now or just spending less time dealing with fatigue and compensation between rounds?
Mentally breaking down the barrier of doubting my abilities and pulling the trigger once the sight is aligned with the target. No second guesses. Sounds like instinctive style, but I have to be relaxed yet deliberate at the same time.
I've been resetting my strings of fire once I feel my elbows getting raised when fatigue kicks in for the past few weeks. So many subtle details I've been working on at once.