CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => Car Talk => Topic started by: Gilly87 on March 22, 2015, 03:23:20 PM
-
So I'm looking to spend around 20 grand, looking at mid-to-large convertibles. I live in LA, so I want to be able to drop the top when I feel like it, but also want a car that's reliable with a nice ride and not-horrible gas mileage (17/25 minimum; would like 20/30 but not going to kill myself over it).
I originally wanted to buy my dream car, a 300ZX with the targa top, and just redo it from head-to-toe, new engine, etc, but I don't think I have the time or money just yet, and I want something that's not going to make me look like an impulsive spender if I have to take business partners out, etc.
I really like the 2010 G37x S - everything I want, plus all-wheel drive, which would be great to have if I road trip to visit friends in Montana and Colorado, which I plan on...anyone know any good reason I shouldn't buy one that's in good shape? I've been led to believe that getting 150k+ miles from an Infiniti that's well-maintained is not at all impossible, so I figure if I buy one with ~50k and take care of it for 100k, I'll be getting a steal at 20 grand or so considering it was originally a $45k+ car.
(http://www.autogaleria.hu/autok/infiniti/ipl-g-coupe-2010/infiniti_ipl-g-coupe-2010_r12.jpg)
(http://www.moibibiki.com/images/infiniti-g37-convertible-wheels-2.jpg)
I've also looked at a used 4 series convertible, but I don't really want a BMW; EVERYONE and their mother has that car here. Also not into expensive ass repairs, and from the nightmares I've seen friends have with Minis, I don't really trust BMW.
I've also considered the new Mustang with the ecoboost engine, but I'd rather get a car that can last a while; I know a V6 is going to keep chugging for a lot longer than that turbo 4, and although I think the look is a huge improvement from the last generation of 'stangs (2005 - 2014 are just fucking ugly IMO), I would prefer something a bit classier looking. Plus I'm all about the hard-top convertibles...so awesome, and I plan on getting a decent sound system for it at some point, so the hard top convertible is big for me.
Also looked at the 2010 Lexus IS convertibles, but I feel like the G37 is a bigger car (correct me if I'm wrong) and I want something with a nice ride for long trips. I kinda wish they made a GS convertible XD
I've also considered wussing out and getting a used GS450h or G37x sedan, which would be the intelligent and practical thing to do...but I don't know if I will live in LA forever, and I want to take full advantage of all weather-related perks while I'm here. I figure there will always be a teenager in LA who wants a convertible, so if I have to sell it in 5 years for a 5-10k loss, well shit, that's just too bad.
Any thoughts? Experiences? Ideas?
-
Why not an A4?
-
Why not an A4?
hello,
as an Audi owner i would say expensive to run, soft top convertible, not all that reliable and parts/service can be difficult and costly.
(the parts are made by magic gnomes who eat gold leaf and poop fairy dust. YMMV.)
i will NEVER sell mine. :)p7
-
Go with a Vette, Gilly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WRf6Q1o7PE
-
Any thoughts? Experiences? Ideas?
The previous generation Lexus IS350C is a complete snoozebox, with a big fat ass because they couldn't be bothered to properly engineer it to fit a hard top. If you just want a reliable driving appliance with a retractable hard top, buy an SC430. That car is also rolling Novocaine, but it's more luxurious and possibly the most reliable car ever made.
The G37 convertible is just big and fat. Some 4200 pounds worth of fat actually, so it's only marginally more fun than the Lexus. With the top down, the trunk is nonexistent, so you'd better be able to fit what you want to bring with you in the back seats, and hope it doesn't get stolen, or have fun doing the hokey-pokey with the top and your luggage. I also don't like listening to the roided out VQ37HR in the Infiniti G37 sedan. With the top down... yegh. Did I mention the G convertible shakes like an old Saab over broken pavement?
The Audi A5 Cab is equally heavy, but unlike Infiniti, Audi's chassis engineers actually know how to do their jobs. It's a rag top, but a well insulated one, and that means better styling than the hard tops, and a trunk that you can actually put things in. As a former Audi owner myself I know what the service experience is like, but in the last few years Audi's reliability has actually gotten pretty good, so hopefully you won't have to visit the service desk too often. Either a CPO or a thoroughly inspected car is a must though. Audis don't suffer foolish or neglectful prior owners.
The E90 gen 3 series was actually a pretty damn good car, in spite of the quality of people that may have bought them. Stay FAR away from 335is, but 2009+ 328s are holding up to a reasonable degree, though the equivalent A5 2.0T is doing better.
The G37 sedan is fine, it's definitely dynamically better than the convertible, doesn't have the storage issues or cowl shake issues, and mechanical reliability is excellent save perhaps the brakes. It's a little boring and the engine sounds like an old Soviet era tractor, but you could definitely do worse, like the IS250 for example.
The previous generation GS450h was the dumbest car ever made, which is why they sold about five of them. Take a GS350, cut the power down having the engine run Atkinson cycle, add the power back with an electric motor, along with several hundred pounds of weight for the batteries, which kill half of the already too small trunk. Any efficiency gained from having the engine run lean is immediately lost because the car has to lug around all that extra weight, which is why the GS450h is both no faster or more fuel efficient than the GS350. Which is why nobody bought one.
That car was also the second worst car in the segment at the time, ahead of only the "is this thing a joke?" Acura RL.
-
Go with a Vette, Gilly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WRf6Q1o7PE
Bleagh...couldn't afford one, don't want one.
Great video though.
-
The previous generation Lexus IS350C is a complete snoozebox, with a big fat ass because they couldn't be bothered to properly engineer it to fit a hard top. If you just want a reliable driving appliance with a retractable hard top, buy an SC430. That car is also rolling Novocaine, but it's more luxurious and possibly the most reliable car ever made.
Meh...I looked at them. 6.7 seconds to 60...yawn. Trophy wife car. I'm not after a true sports car; if I was I'd probably just get a used Boxter and call it quits. But I do want to be able to whip around corners with the top down when nobody's looking :P
The G37 convertible is just big and fat. Some 4200 pounds worth of fat actually, so it's only marginally more fun than the Lexus. With the top down, the trunk is nonexistent, so you'd better be able to fit what you want to bring with you in the back seats, and hope it doesn't get stolen, or have fun doing the hokey-pokey with the top and your luggage. I also don't like listening to the roided out VQ37HR in the Infiniti G37 sedan. With the top down... yegh. Did I mention the G convertible shakes like an old Saab over broken pavement?
I don't mind the size; I'd actually prefer something with a little meat on its bones for a cleaner ride, but it looks like that's out the window. I expect a little stiffness from a car that's fun to drive, but if it's that bad, I'm out.
The Audi A5 Cab is equally heavy, but unlike Infiniti, Audi's chassis engineers actually know how to do their jobs. It's a rag top, but a well insulated one, and that means better styling than the hard tops, and a trunk that you can actually put things in. As a former Audi owner myself I know what the service experience is like, but in the last few years Audi's reliability has actually gotten pretty good, so hopefully you won't have to visit the service desk too often. Either a CPO or a thoroughly inspected car is a must though. Audis don't suffer foolish or neglectful prior owners.
Meh...sounds too risky. I've heard nightmare stories of Audi repair costs. Also probably more than I want to spend, and while looks aren't my first criteria, Audis just look plain ugly to me. It's odd, because they look fine up close, but on the road they look like marshmallows with wheels. Except the R8, obviously.
The E90 gen 3 series was actually a pretty damn good car, in spite of the quality of people that may have bought them. Stay FAR away from 335is, but 2009+ 328s are holding up to a reasonable degree, though the equivalent A5 2.0T is doing better.
How do you feel about the new 4 series? Any first hand experience or stories from anyone you trust? You're obviously well-informed.
The G37 sedan is fine, it's definitely dynamically better than the convertible, doesn't have the storage issues or cowl shake issues, and mechanical reliability is excellent save perhaps the brakes. It's a little boring and the engine sounds like an old Soviet era tractor, but you could definitely do worse, like the IS250 for example.
Really? Darn...I really want a drop top. I know it makes me kind of a sucker, but I want to suck up all the Cali sun I can while I'm still here ^_^ My first car was an old Sebring convertible my dad passed down to me, so I'm basically spoiled.
The previous generation GS450h was the dumbest car ever made, which is why they sold about five of them. Take a GS350, cut the power down having the engine run Atkinson cycle, add the power back with an electric motor, along with several hundred pounds of weight for the batteries, which kill half of the already too small trunk. Any efficiency gained from having the engine run lean is immediately lost because the car has to lug around all that extra weight, which is why the GS450h is both no faster or more fuel efficient than the GS350. Which is why nobody bought one.
Well that's that.
What do you know/think about the G350?
That car was also the second worst car in the segment at the time, ahead of only the "is this thing a joke?" Acura RL.
Yeah the specs on Acuras make me wonder why the fuck anyone buys them instead of a Honda. If they made a V6 accord Si convertible, I'd be all over it, no questions asked.
So the G37 has a rough ride and isn't fun...well that sucks to hear. Even the AWD version?
Anything non-Audi you'd recommend? If you wanted what I'm after, what would you get that can be had used for under 30k?
-
Is the 370z convertible any better than the g37 in terms of ride quality? AFAIK it's the same chassis, so I'm expecting a no, but figured I'd ask.
Such a shame...I was stoked that the G37x w/ AWD might actually have everything I wanted.
Are the masses actually right this time and I should just cave and get the 428i convertible? p:8
-
I'm telling you, get a hardtop convertible. Unless you are the type who somehow doesn't ever worry about driving around LA and getting your top slashed and whether you should leave your top up or down when parked trading soft top safety for interior theft, environmental wear or having your seats slashed. Of course, having a soft top up doesn't necessarily prevent those things either!
As for the G37 being a sports car, that's pretty funny imho but to each their own. Anyhow, I'd go for a hardtop Miata or a future hardtop Alfa/Miata. Both too small for you it sounds but actually are sports cars and not fat whales with a V6 or V8 trying to compensate. In the fat whale category I'd go BMW retractable hardtop if I could lease it with service included.
There's also a new TT coming soon. But Audi if you have issues with that.
If you care about ride quality, Infinity is a no brainer over Nissan. If you also care about reliability and a quality interior that will withstand wear over time, anything other than Nissan/Infinity. I can't think of a Luxury brand that falls to pieces faster. Not even Lincoln or Cadillac.
Oh, get a hardtop convertible!! You're utility levels will increase and stress levels will decrease logarithmically.
Oh, Lol @ Mustangs and their hood flutter. Ridiculous.
-
Such a shame...I was stoked that the G37x w/ AWD might actually have everything I wanted.
Are the masses actually right this time and I should just cave and get the 428i convertible? p:8
See what you can actually find in the market and drive both. Done. Pay attention to how things are wearing whether the car feels loose and kind of worn out or tight. A convertible chassis will wear more and faster than a hardtop unless you are an Aston, McLaren, etc. with proper engineering.
-
I'm telling you, get a hardtop convertible. Unless you are the type who somehow doesn't ever worry about driving around LA and getting your top slashed and whether you should leave your top up or down when parked trading soft top safety for interior theft, environmental wear or having your seats slashed. Of course, having a soft top up doesn't necessarily prevent those things either!
As for the G37 being a sports car, that's pretty funny imho but to each their own. Anyhow, I'd go for a hardtop Miata or a future hardtop Alfa/Miata. Both too small for you it sounds but actually are sports cars and not fat whales with a V6 or V8 trying to compensate. In the fat whale category I'd go BMW retractable hardtop if I could lease it with service included.
There's also a new TT coming soon. But Audi if you have issues with that.
If you care about ride quality, Infinity is a no brainer over Nissan. If you also care about reliability and a quality interior that will withstand wear over time, anything other than Nissan/Infinity. I can't think of a Luxury brand that falls to pieces faster. Not even Lincoln or Cadillac.
Oh, get a hardtop convertible!! You're utility levels will increase and stress levels will decrease logarithmically.
Oh, Lol @ Mustangs and their hood flutter. Ridiculous.
No I was saying it's definitely not a true sports car. No doubts there. I just want something fun to drive that feels good on the road and won't be fatiguing for long drives; hence the Miatas and Boxters are out. Also I'm 6'4" so...yeah.
Didn't realize Infinitis degraded so quickly over time. Everything I've read indicates that they have pretty low cost of ownership, but I guess that doesn't mean the leather won't crack.
When you say "falls to pieces," do you mean the whole car or just the interior?
-
Mostly the interior, like switchgear, paint, finishes, leather, indicators. Though bear in mind, for mechanical reliability Nissan has always ranked behind Toyota, Honda, and dare I say many current Mazda offerings.
Like I said, you have to go out and find these cars and drive them. You could find a cherry unicorn G37x. You'll either want a low mileage unit or a high mileage one that has proven itself already. So I would try looking at some high mileage samples to what kind of wear and tear they are susceptible to. Ultimately, nobody here on a forum can answer for you. It's just too subjective and all we can offer is very general and vague experiences and observations which may or may not be complete BS.
-
Meh...I looked at them. 6.7 seconds to 60...yawn. Trophy wife car. I'm not after a true sports car; if I was I'd probably just get a used Boxter and call it quits. But I do want to be able to whip around corners with the top down when nobody's looking :P
I don't mind the size; I'd actually prefer something with a little meat on its bones for a cleaner ride, but it looks like that's out the window. I expect a little stiffness from a car that's fun to drive, but if it's that bad, I'm out.
Meh...sounds too risky. I've heard nightmare stories of Audi repair costs. Also probably more than I want to spend, and while looks aren't my first criteria, Audis just look plain ugly to me. It's odd, because they look fine up close, but on the road they look like marshmallows with wheels. Except the R8, obviously.
How do you feel about the new 4 series? Any first hand experience or stories from anyone you trust? You're obviously well-informed.
Really? Darn...I really want a drop top. I know it makes me kind of a sucker, but I want to suck up all the Cali sun I can while I'm still here ^_^ My first car was an old Sebring convertible my dad passed down to me, so I'm basically spoiled.
Well that's that.
What do you know/think about the G350?
Yeah the specs on Acuras make me wonder why the fuck anyone buys them instead of a Honda. If they made a V6 accord Si convertible, I'd be all over it, no questions asked.
So the G37 has a rough ride and isn't fun...well that sucks to hear. Even the AWD version?
Anything non-Audi you'd recommend? If you wanted what I'm after, what would you get that can be had used for under 30k?
Yeah the SC430 is, IMO, an ugly, bathtub shaped Real Housewives car, but it's also a very safe buy on the used market, and I'd probably still take it over the IS350C. They benchmarked the Jaguar XK and failed on every level, which is amazing because the XK itself pre '07 was also pretty damn bad.
Definitely beware the used Boxster. If the previous owner has done the necessary engine work it's probably not the worst thing out there, but if not, the engine is basically a grenade just waiting for the pin to fall out.
Cowl shake on the G convertible is pretty damn bad for a modern car. The transformation to retractable hard top was basically a hatchet job and it shows. You'll have to drive one yourself to see if you can tolerate it, I don't think I could.
A bad Audi is definitely not something you want to have, no question. My advice to those looking to get into second hand German iron is always: 1. buy CPO, and 2. be in the financial position to be able to dump the car the second the CPO warranty runs out if it turns out to be a lemon. M-B's CPO warranty sucks, at least it did last time I checked, but Audi's is solid and I think can be extended to 7 years and something like 115K miles IIRC beyond the standard 6/100. So as long as you've got that coverage there really isn't too much to worry about. It's really the third owner who comes in at year 8 looking for the bargain A6 or 5 series that gets screwed.
Would you be leasing a 4 series or something? I'm not sure how you're looking at a BMW 4 on the budget that you're talking about, it's a brand new model, and the 428 convertible starts at $50K. Style wise and driving wise I prefer the old E90 to the new F30. Like everything else they make, BMW really softened the car to make it more appealing to mainstream buyers. The interior is better than before, but the new C-class interior is so much better than everything else that it doesn't really matter that much.
The G sedan is perfectly serviceable, but I drove the first gen G35, and that car was a blast. The interior quality was horrible, but even in AWD form the rear would rotate on command, and it felt light and nimble. Compared to that car, the G37x sedan feels like its made out of lead. It's comparable to other cars in the segment like the Volvo S60. Fine, not great. Keep in mind that the convertible is a G37 with an 800 pound gorilla strapped on top. (It's literally 800 pounds heavier). You can imagine what that does.
I really did not like the third generation Lexus GS at all. I suppose the Cadillac STS was worse, and the RL definitely was, but literally everything else from the same generation was WAY better. The new GS kicks the RLX and Q70 into the weeds. It's better to drive than the E and in the same league with the A6 and 5. Steering feel is a real problem, but it is with all of these cars now. Mostly I dislike it just because of the styling, and I think the Lexus remote touch system sucks. My pick of this segment right now is the S6, but that's mainly because the E-class is so old. If the next E is anything like the new C-class, watch out.
If it were my $30K, I'd probably put it down on a triple black 2010 S5 Cabrio. That car is very quick out of the box and has great seats which is the biggest weakness of the standard A4/A5.
After that, I'd look at a 2011 or 2012 BMW Z4. I think it's a much better looking car than the 328i convertible which goes for the same money, and the interior is a lot nicer and a lot more special.
I have no interest in Mustangs or Camaros, and the 370Z isn't for me either, just a personal preference. Other than that, you have also rans like the Volvo C70 and VW Eos which aren't worth bothering with.
-
Yeah, I'd probably lease a more recent Z4. I'm sure there's decent aftermarket support for it and I think it looks good personally despite it's growth.
-
Yeah, I'd probably lease a more recent Z4. I'm sure there's decent aftermarket support for it and I think it looks good personally despite it's growth.
Agreed. Unlike the SC430 you can drive it without feeling embarrassed that you don't have lady bits, and the interior really isn't bad at all for the money, definitely a step ahead of the equivalent Mercedes SLK.
(http://www.diariomotor.com/imagenes/2008/12/nuevo-bmw-z4-2.jpg)
-
http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1-convertible.html (http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1-convertible.html)
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/convertibles/1312_2014_chevrolet_camaro_zl1_convertible_first_test/56424529/2013-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-front-three-quarters-view-in-motion-07.jpg)
The ZL1 will handle well. Arguably better quality/reliability than Nissan/Infiniti. Might be able to find one for a good deal since the redesign is around the corner.
-
The ZL1
This is what happens to your soft top in LA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbHjEK3Fc78
-
This is what happens to your soft top in LA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbHjEK3Fc78
YMMV. I drove two soft-tops in SoCal for a total of 11 years, including four of commuting from central OC to downtown LA, and the worst thing that happened was I had to replace the back window on the Miata due to sun damage.
One thing you might not know about the Boxster: it has way more cargo space than it appears. You can fit two bankers' boxes side by side in the front.
-
The ZL1 will handle well. Arguably better quality/reliability than Nissan/Infiniti. Might be able to find one for a good deal since the redesign is around the corner.
Ha, that's what I just did. They're amazingly inexpensive right now--swapped the SS convert for a ZL1 recently. Totally different car. I have to stop talking shit about the porky Camaro, because this pig can dance. And the Mag Ride (active suspension) actually rides very nice. Downside is mileage, which is pretty bad.
(And yes, I freely admitted the SS was a porker that handled like crap. I knew what I was getting into, but I wanted a 4-seat convertible, didn't want another Mustang convertible, and didn't want to get into crazy-exotic maintenance prices. I've owned so many stupid cars, I have zero need to justify a bad car.)
The A5 has always struck me as a German Camaro. A5 drivers hate it when you say that for some reason.
-
They saw a Miata and felt sorry for you is why. :)) YMMV indeed. Just commuting is safer than living there obviously. Have read.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-569347.html
I love that Toyota was willing to spend the money putting a glass rear window in my MR-S when Mazda, BMW, and Porsche didn't.
-
One thing you might not know about the Boxster: it has way more cargo space than it appears. You can fit two bankers' boxes side by side in the front.
The Boxster is indeed very practical for its size (something like 9cu.ft of space between the two trunks) and the Cayman even more so. The rub with these cars is that intermediate shaft bearing and rear main seal. There are retrofits that can deal with this issue, in much the same way that I assume there's a retrofit to make the BMW N54TT not eat HPFPs like movie theater popcorn. But I still wouldn't trust an out of warranty Porsche with an M96 or M97 in it. Supposedly the problem was dealt with in '09+ cars. Used Porsches still make me nervous though. The maintenance costs are on a different level even from BMW, Audi, and M-B.
-
The A5 has always struck me as a German Camaro. A5 drivers hate it when you say that for some reason.
I don't really see it. The GT-R I think could definitely be described as a Japanese Camaro, but the A5 2.0T is just a two door A4, the cars are basically identical. That's why Audi could then put those doors back on and sell a more stylish, hatchback A4 as the A5 Sportback, same as the 4 series Grandcoupe. It would be impossible to graft rear doors onto the Camaro and try to make a sedan out of it.
The RS5 is how Audi's tuner division has always done things. They've never made lightweight sports cars like BMW M used to, and they've never made tire smoking dragsters like AMG. Going back to the beginning, RS cars have been mega power Autobahn cruisers (usually wagons), designed to blow past everything else when it's raining.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--QMuVDsDD--/nstoudnkteycijqxs1dh.jpg)
-
I don't really see it. The GT-R I think could definitely be described as a Japanese Camaro, but the A5 2.0T is just a two door A4, the cars are basically identical. That's why Audi could then put those doors back on and sell a more stylish, hatchback A4 as the A5 Sportback, same as the 4 series Grandcoupe. It would be impossible to graft rear doors onto the Camaro and try to make a sedan out of it.
The RS5 is how Audi's tuner division has always done things. They've never made lightweight sports cars like BMW M used to, and they've never made tire smoking dragsters like AMG. Going back to the beginning, RS cars have been mega power Autobahn cruisers (usually wagons), designed to blow past everything else when it's raining.
Eugh, how is the GT-R anything like the Camaro? I suppose I can see very superficial between the GT-R and entry-level American muscle cars, but the GT-R is obviously in an entirely different league in just about every way...
-
I've decided to go with the advice to drive the damn thing, seems like the best place to start...just like headphones, right? You never know what you'll think until you try...
-
GTR is a Japanese Camaro? Maybe if it was only ever RWD only. Even then, it'd have to be the new Z28, not any lesser model. You're really upselling the base Camaro which is an utter dog, lol.
The G35 and Genesis Coupe are the Asian Mustang and Camaro.
-
The 370z and Genesis Coupe are the Asian Mustang and Camaro.
ftfy
-
Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, I take my Prius out of Eco mode and really let it rip. After a few minutes, I feel guilty and put it back.
So, I totally get you guys.
-
ftfy
Actually not really. Look at the 370z's dimensions and compare. It's closer to a FRS/BRZ. They shrunk it down a bit. I know, it surprised me too. It looks fat because it's round and chubby looking like a bee stung toddler. It IS still heavy though!
-
I didn't fit in the 370z I tried to test drive... I was pretty fat at the time, 5'11" ~250lbs. I should try again...
I'm moving the hell out of New England and kinda want something fun. If I stay here for another winter, I'm getting a Jeep.
-
GTR is a Japanese Camaro? Maybe if it was only ever RWD only. Even then, it'd have to be the new Z28, not any lesser model. You're really upselling the base Camaro which is an utter dog, lol.
Performance wise yes it would have to be compared to the Z28, but that's only because Nissan doesn't make a rental spec version of the GT-R, it's all or nothing. The GT-R is the Japanese muscle car. Nissan is obviously not going to do a pushrod V8 and RWD, that's not what they're about. The concept is the same though, big, heavy car that's way faster than it has any right to be.
The G37 coupe is not a muscle car. A 330hp V6 doesn't make you a muscle car, not when V6 Camrys and Accords are packing 270. Same with the stock S5. Not fast enough. After a trip to APR, then we'll talk.
-
So a 320hp Mustang or Camaro V6 isn't a muscle car? If not, why?
-
Actually not really. Look at the 370z's dimensions and compare. It's closer to a FRS/BRZ. They shrunk it down a bit. I know, it surprised me too. It looks fat because it's round and chubby looking like a bee stung toddler. It IS still heavy though!
Weird.
idk I think the G37 has a level of refinement that neither Mustand nor Camaro can lay claim to...maybe it's the Japanese Challenger?
I almost put the BRZ in there instead of the 370Z XD Both the 370 and G37 are way out of price league of Mustangs (even GTs, still 10k+ less) and Camaros.
-
I didn't fit in the 370z I tried to test drive... I was pretty fat at the time, 5'11" ~250lbs. I should try again...
I'm moving the hell out of New England and kinda want something fun. If I stay here for another winter, I'm getting a Jeep.
Oh wow, that's out then.
Performance wise yes it would have to be compared to the Z28, but that's only because Nissan doesn't make a rental spec version of the GT-R, it's all or nothing. The GT-R is the Japanese muscle car. Nissan is obviously not going to do a pushrod V8 and RWD, that's not what they're about. The concept is the same though, big, heavy car that's way faster than it has any right to be.
The G37 coupe is not a muscle car. A 330hp V6 doesn't make you a muscle car, not when V6 Camrys and Accords are packing 270. Same with the stock S5. Not fast enough. After a trip to APR, then we'll talk.
I agree...I feel like the G37 is definitely not as performance oriented as a Stang or Camaro, with way more creature comfort standard and no "bare bones" option, which muscle cars usually always have (these cars' implicit pitch is "Buy me cheap so you can throw a few K at my intake and exhaust and embarrass that snobby asshole and his Beemer!").
I feel like the GTR is the Japanese Dodge Viper, if we're being realistic about performance and cost. No way it fits into this category. It's the same mission too - "Hey look how cheaply we can smoke most Porsches, Ferraris and Lambos!"
I'm calling it at Genesis Coupe and Eclipse. IMO the Eclipse is the Japanese Mustang - it shares a similar place in cultural ethos, available in coupe or drop, and targets the same price range.
Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, I take my Prius out of Eco mode and really let it rip. After a few minutes, I feel guilty and put it back.
So, I totally get you guys.
XD
-
Porsche has lost its way. But then again, my memories of Porsche were from the 1980s and early 90s.
I test drove a Cayman, fully willing to put 50% down if I liked it. By the time I parked the car back at the dealership... Let's say I almost lost it when I found out the parking brake was a button to press.
Maybe what you really want is this:
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/future/hyundai-genesis-convertible-would-a-droptop-be-a-good-idea/27597902+w750/hyundai-genesis-convertible-rear-view-rendering.jpg)
-
I used to be a car geek in school with a few others. If there is a convertible I still admire it is the Alfa Romeo Spider. Go for that and no one questions your taste in aesthetics.
(http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/alfa-romeo-cars-sale-wanted/75505d1186965019-1987-alfa-romeoo-spider-veloce-sale-cimg1201.jpg)
Hopefully a new one will come at one point.
-
I'm calling it at Genesis Coupe and Eclipse. IMO the Eclipse is the Japanese Mustang - it shares a similar place in cultural ethos, available in coupe or drop, and targets the same price range.
XD
Yeah that's fair. The Japanese sports cars of the '90s (Supra, 300ZX, 3000GT, RX-7) competed head on with Detroit muscle cars for a time, until the exchange rate killed them. Near the end, a Supra turbo was pushing past Corvette money. The equivalent of the G37 coupe at that time would've been the first gen Lexus SC coupe, which was definitely not a Japanese Camaro, even in V8 SC400 guise. It went after the Lincoln Mark VIII and Eldorado.
-
In Cultural ethos the Z car = Mustang. 3000GT is closer to Camaro than Eclipse. Plus the Eclipse used to come in AWD and was relatively light with decent handling. For the same generation, you would never say that about a Fox body Mustang unless it was gutted and rebuilt.
-
So a 320hp Mustang or Camaro V6 isn't a muscle car? If not, why?
Bullsh*t
-
In Cultural ethos the Z car = Mustang. 3000GT is closer to Camaro than Eclipse. Plus the Eclipse used to come in AWD and was relatively light with decent handling. For the same generation, you would never say that about a Fox body Mustang unless it was gutted and rebuilt.
Ehhh but what movies have featured the Z? Or the 3000GT? All the kids in my generation wanted an Eclipse - just like kids in the 50s and 60s wanted Mustangs. And plenty wound up getting them. Neither of those things are true about the Nissans.
I agree that they aren't similar as cars (Eclipse and Stang), but they occupy the same symbolic role in their respective time periods of greatest fame, and are priced accessibly which strengthens their cultural role, if you will - the car that's working-class attainable and will beat a BMW or Benz with a little work.
Then again, this is from an American perspective; maybe in Asia the Z cars are what the Mustang is to the US? I still think the price changes the image though...
But yeah, as far as car-ness goes sans cultural status, Genesis coupe is probably as close as it gets to a concrete equivalent.
...oh and for the record, the 300ZX is the car I actually want, but I don't have the money to make it the way I want it right now. Also I need a car that doesn't make me look completely irresponsible/flamboyant...
-
Porsche has lost its way. But then again, my memories of Porsche were from the 1980s and early 90s.
I test drove a Cayman, fully willing to put 50% down if I liked it. By the time I parked the car back at the dealership... Let's say I almost lost it when I found out the parking brake was a button to press.
Maybe what you really want is this:
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/future/hyundai-genesis-convertible-would-a-droptop-be-a-good-idea/27597902+w750/hyundai-genesis-convertible-rear-view-rendering.jpg)
After everything you've said that feels like an insult XD
-
Ehhh but what movies have featured the Z? Or the 3000GT? All the kids in my generation wanted an Eclipse - just like kids in the 50s and 60s wanted Mustangs. And plenty wound up getting them. Neither of those things are true about the Nissans.
Sorry, but when you use BIG language like 'cultural ethos' of an entire nation the topic moves beyond what you think your generation wanted. The Mustang is the most iconic American car over the past 50 years. Same with the Z car being Japan's dominant icon over the same period. I even challenge you to produce sales numbers for your generation that shows the Eclipse outselling any Z car of the same period to support your perception.
I'll even say the AE86 Corolla is a bigger icon in both Japan and the US than any Eclipse.
-
Sorry, but when you use BIG language like 'cultural ethos' of an entire nation the topic moves beyond what you think your generation wanted. The Mustang is the most iconic American car over the past 50 years. Same with the Z car being Japan's dominant icon over the same period. I even challenge you to produce sales numbers for your generation that shows the Eclipse outselling any Z car of the same period to support your perception.
Uhh. No it doesn't! XD Using "big language" doesn't mean I'm saying anything other than what I actually said: I was referring specifically TO my generation, if you read a bit more closely. As far as older generations' or other cultures' perceptions of these cars, I couldn't say much at all, but for kids born in the late 80s/early 90s who grew up watching The Fast and the Furious, the Eclipse was the car we all lusted over. Plenty of guys I know wound up buying a used Eclipse; not so many Z cars or Supras. Obviously my sample is limited, but I've lived in every section of the US other than the Pacific Northwest since I was a teenager (grew up in the Northeast as a kid, went to school in the Midwest and South, lived in the Mid Atlantic after school, now live in the Southwest), and I've been a car fanboy since I was 12 and have spent most of my time since then meandering across the internet, discussing my pet interests on various forums, so I think my perspective on this particular matter is pretty accurate.
Edit to clarify here: Mustangs have the ethos they possess because of the image they conveyed in the 1950s and 1960s - a fast, cool-looking car that a working-class American could afford. This is what the Eclipse was to Americans in the 1990s, and this image was even further reinforced by the Fast and the Furious movies. I'm not aware of other specific time periods that had such relationships with cars, due to lack of cultural forces - I'm happy to be corrected if you can provide similar examples.
Sales number won't measure cultural image; plenty of the people who idolized these cars in the US from seeing The Fast and the Furious definitely didn't have the money to buy one at the time, and even though they might still hold the same image of the car, I'm sure priorities have shifted for most - cars don't mean what they used to in the US. And plenty probably still don't have the money to buy one because of the recession XD
But, back on the topic of price, and I'm speaking from a strictly American perspective here, the Z cars cost at least 10k more than a Mustang (almost 20k more than V6 models!), putting it squarely in the range of attainability only for those in the upper middle class, whereas the Mustang (and Eclipse) are targeted squarely at middle and lower-class buyers.
I DO agree that the Z car is Japan's most iconic sports car (like I said, the 300zx is my dream car, so you know I agree with you on this one in some sense!), speaking outside of generational relevance, but that still doesn't make it the cultural equivalent of a Mustang; maybe more like a baby Vette, or Dodge Challenger.
I'll even say the AE86 Corolla is a bigger icon in both Japan and the US than any Eclipse.
...I understand why you're saying this, and in certain circles I'm sure it's true, but if you're looking at the broader culture rather than the niche racing community, this is just plain false, at least in the US; I can't say anything about Japan, but I know most Americans would look at you like you're insane if you told them that the Toyota Corolla is famous as a race car.
-
Pretty much disagree with most everything you said really. People bought a used Eclipse because they couldn't afford a Supra. Not one person I know who was somehow influenced by Fast and furious would take an Eclipse over a Supra.
...and since when was the Eclipse ever a 'race car'? What do you even mean by that. I think part of the problem is you're using sloppy language to try to make your points so it's not holding up.
You also probably don't want to compare auto resumes and experience with me if you are trying to come off as some sort of authority. ;)
I think the Eclipse was seemingly more significant to you as maybe that's the culture you were part of so it seemed bigger than it was. The Eclipse has simply never had the significance and following that the Supra, Z car, Miata, Integra, Civic, AE86Corolla, Silvia, RX7, GTR, WRX, Evo had. Compared to those, the Eclipse was an minor blip on the radar that came and went barely noticed. Unless maybe if you were a fanboy that had one. No one else really cared too much. So Cal is car Mecca. I don't recall armies of Eclipses rolling around after Fast and Furious. Pretty much all the others were the culturally dominant tuner cars, except the GTR which we couldn't get yet.
To your other point, sales numbers do absolutely reflect an accurate cultural image! Look at Apple sales. Look at the current culture. Look at the sales and aftermarket support and forums for most of the cars I listed above and try to tell me the Eclipse is more culturally significant than any of those cars. Nah. Sales reflect the tastes and desires of the culture in question. You can't ignore this fact. I wish could ignore all the BMWs and MBs driving around California and tell myself the state isn't full of assholes, but I can't. Reality is a bitch.
You're also having a hard time equivocating the price of an Eclipse from 20 years ago to a Z car today versus two very different generations and trims levels of Mustangs. That's pretty sloppy. The Mustang has historically been America's iconic car and the Z car has Japans. It's really that simple. They don't need to cost the same to make that true. facepalm
-
Dude, the amount of condescension in this post is painful. You probably know more about cars and tuner culture than I; I don't lay claim to that type of knowledge. What I'm talking about is broader cultural perception, and if your perspective is limited to So Cal, I think I can make pretty decent contrast to your perspective given my experience living all around the states.
Pretty much disagree with most everything you said really. People bought a used Eclipse because they couldn't afford a Supra. Not one person I know who was somehow influenced by Fast and furious would take an Eclipse over a Supra.
Out of curiosity, do you fall into the generation I'm discussing?
And yeah, Supra > Eclipse all day, but who could afford a Supra?
...and since when was the Eclipse ever a 'race car'? What do you even mean by that. I think part of the problem is you're using sloppy language to try to make your points so it's not holding up.
-_- Sloppy my ass. I'm saying if you pose the Corolla as a car used for street racing to most Americans, they will laugh in your face. It's that simple.
You also probably don't want to compare auto resumes and experience with me if you are trying to come off as some sort of authority. ;)
LMAO! Curb your ego, dude! I'm not an authority; never said I was! I've been interested in cars since I was young, and have learned a lot about different models, and have talked to a lot of people in my generation about their opinions on different cars. That's what I'm speaking to, not knowledge of car mechanics or tuner culture. Maybe that's where we're having the disconnect.
I think the Eclipse was seemingly more significant to you as maybe that's the culture you were part of so it seemed bigger than it was. The Eclipse has simply never had the significance and following that the Supra, Z car, Miata, Integra, Civic, AE86Corolla, Silvia, RX7, GTR, WRX, Evo had. Compared to those, the Eclipse was an minor blip on the radar that came and went barely noticed. Unless maybe if you were a fanboy that had one. No one else really cared too much. So Cal is car Mecca. I don't recall armies of Eclipses rolling around after Fast and Furious. Pretty much all the others were the culturally dominant tuner cars, except the GTR which we couldn't get yet.
YES the Eclipse is more significant to my culture and my generation!! That's what I've been saying the whole time! Christ, you complain about my wording but don't actually read what I'm saying? Shit dude, get it together!
Also, the forums of people who have the MONEY to buy cars and tune them represents a small portion of the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about BROADER CULTURAL IMAGE - the general public's perception of the cars. Most people don't know what an Integra or RX7 is; if I ask my girlfriend "Hey, do you think I should get the new WRX or Evo?" she would look at me like I was crazy and ask what I'm talking about, but if I told her I was thinking about buying an Eclipse, this pops into her head: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Mitsubishi_Eclipse_front_20080801.jpg
To your other point, sales numbers do absolutely reflect an accurate cultural image! Look at Apple sales. Look at the current culture. Look at the sales and aftermarket support and forums for most of the cars I listed above and try to tell me the Eclipse is more culturally significant than any of those cars. Nah. Sales reflect the tastes and desires of the culture in question. You can't ignore this fact. I wish could ignore all the BMWs and MBs driving around California and tell myself the state isn't full of assholes, but I can't. Reality is a bitch.
Dude, Apples (lol) to oranges! ANYONE can afford a $600 cell phone if they really want it; not everybody can spring 40k, or even 20k, on the car they want. Maybe this is a bias of the culture YOU are a part of - I'm talking about broader cultural perception, the everyman, who will probably never own any kind of sports car at all; you seem to be more focused on actual tuner and sports car culture, in reference to which your points are AFAIK 100% correct, but now I'm trying to show you that that's not the point I'm trying to make.
Aftermarket forums are irrelevant to my point; again, you're talking about enthusiasts while I'm talking about pop culture. I don't know how that has slipped past you but I'm trying to be 110% clear this time.
You're also having a hard time equivocating the price of an Eclipse from 20 years ago to a Z car today versus two very different generations and trims levels of Mustangs. That's pretty sloppy.
Sloppy my ass! The Z cars were STILL noticeably more expensive than the Eclipse 20 years ago.
My point is proven by the fact that EVEN THE HIGHEST TRIM MUSTANG is 10k less than the LOWEST trim Z car! What about that doesn't make sense? The money might not be a factor to you or your friends, but to a lot of people, what they want and idolize has a lot to do with what they see as attainable or achievable. This is what the Eclipse and Mustang had in common in the 90s.
The Mustang has historically been America's iconic car and the Z car has Japans. It's really that simple. They don't need to cost the same to make that true. facepalm
-_______-;;;
I LITERALLY SAID THIS IN MY LAST POST! I agree with you on this point 110%!!!!
My argument is that the Eclipse in the 90s was what the Mustang was in the 50s and 60s. That's the role they share, and that similarity of being iconic for a certain time period has imbued them with a certain cultural role, which I've observed as consistent across the US in my time living in different areas.
I see now, reading back, that I wasn't super clear about this from the get go, but I'm trying to make it as clear as possible now so you can get off your high horse and understand that I'm making a very valid comparison between the Eclipse and the Mustang. I think we're using similar language to talk about two different things, and due to our differences in exposure and experience, we aren't lining up - that's what I'm trying to clarify.
-
Alright. You asked for it....
Dude, the amount of condescension in this post is painful.
If you feel that way, too bad for you I suppose. I'm not responsible for how you feel or perceive reality. Oh well.
What I'm talking about is broader cultural perception, and if your perspective is limited to So Cal, I think I can make pretty decent contrast to your perspective given my experience living all around the states.
1-No you're not. See below.
2-So you saw fleets of used Gen1/2 Eclipses rolling around in every part of the country apart from SoCal after Fast and Furious came out? I'd be curious how many even existed in the South, Midwest or East coast versus California over that period.
Out of curiosity, do you fall into the generation I'm discussing?
Gen 1 Eagle Talon AWD was almost my first car. Almost 10 years before FnF came out.
And yeah, Supra > Eclipse all day, but who could afford a Supra?
Point is, when most people think FnF, they think Supra or Dodge Charger. Not Eclipse, Ferrari or RX7.
-_- Sloppy my ass. I'm saying if you pose the Corolla as a car used for street racing to most Americans, they will laugh in your face. It's that simple.
1-Still waiting for your definition of a 'race car'. Drag? Traffic? Canyons? Pick on the Corolla all you want, but all the other cars I mentioned will jump into most peoples heads before the Eclipse ever does. But since you are on the subject, no Eclipse will match an AE86 Corolla on Ortega/78. Not really relevant, just a fact. Might be relevant depending on how you define 'race car'.
LMAO! Curb your ego, dude! I'm not an authority; never said I was!
Well, that's what it sounds like when you talk about your vast experience and qualified opinions. That by definition is an appeal to authority. Otherwise, why did you even bring up your background? Go ahead and LYAO even more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
YES the Eclipse is more significant to my culture and my generation!! That's what I've been saying the whole time! Christ, you complain about my wording but don't actually read what I'm saying? Shit dude, get it together!
1-Um, no you haven't. See your second quote at top and the following quote about 'BROADER CULTURAL IMAGE'. Either it's about your select smaller specific demographic or it's about a larger broader group in the demographic. It can't be both. So you need to pick one or the other.
2-I'm reading what you are saying, you just don't appear to know how to say or write what you want to. You're the one suffering a communication disconnect unfortunately from what you are thinking and how you are trying to convey it. I can only go by your specific use of language rather than psychic intervention. So if you want to freak out about that, feel free.
Also, the forums of people who have the MONEY to buy cars and tune them represents a small portion of the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about BROADER CULTURAL IMAGE - the general public's perception of the cars.
Oh the contradictions keep coming. See above.
Most people don't know what an Integra or RX7 is; if I ask my girlfriend "Hey, do you think I should get the new WRX or Evo?" she would look at me like I was crazy and ask what I'm talking about, but if I told her I was thinking about buying an Eclipse, this pops into her head: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Mitsubishi_Eclipse_front_20080801.jpg
I challenge the accuracy of that overgeneralized premise. The RX7 especially has been around a lot longer than the Eclipse has and covers more generations of people. I'm sure I could find a pretty big demographic that hears Eclipse and thinks this, not a 'race car':
(http://topcarz.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/2014-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-Spyder.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A3xA0wIVB8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A3xA0wIVB8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYdJpHFmSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYdJpHFmSM)
Dude, Apples (lol) to oranges! ANYONE can afford a $600 cell phone if they really want it; not everybody can spring 40k, or even 20k, on the car they want. Maybe this is a bias of the culture YOU are a part of - I'm talking about broader cultural perception, the everyman, who will probably never own any kind of sports car at all; you seem to be more focused on actual tuner and sports car culture, in reference to which your points are AFAIK 100% correct, but now I'm trying to show you that that's not the point I'm trying to make.
Wow, my point about the relationship between the defining of culture and markets just went waaay over your head there. None of that is even relevant to the point or consistent with it. People buy cars all the time. The iPhone doesn't invalidate anything. Heck, if I applied your logic, I could say Breaking Bad and the Pontiac Aztek has defined this generation. That would make a whole lot of sense...
Aftermarket forums are irrelevant to my point; again, you're talking about enthusiasts while I'm talking about pop culture. I don't know how that has slipped past you but I'm trying to be 110% clear this time.
1-Hmm, forum traffic and purchase orders give us hard data as to what's popular in culture versus your personal self-proclaimed 'non-expert' perceptions. Why would I believe you to be more accurate over this data?
2-Another appeal to 'popular' culture when you conceded above you are talking about a small select group of Eclipse enthusiasts who were inspired by FnF.
Sloppy my ass! The Z cars were STILL noticeably more expensive than the Eclipse 20 years ago.
My point is proven by the fact that EVEN THE HIGHEST TRIM MUSTANG is 10k less than the LOWEST trim Z car! What about that doesn't make sense?
1-The fact that you and I already agreed that price does not define a nations cultural icon here.
2-You are confusing defining a cultural icon versus comparing two automobiles based on competitive pricing. Pricing does not define what a cultural icon is. How many times does this need to be said and for you to agree to it?
I LITERALLY SAID THIS IN MY LAST POST! I agree with you on this point 110%!!!!
3-Thought and fact experiment for you. Before the Eclipse came out in the 90's. Which Japanese car competed with the Mustang for that prior 20 years?
4-If you are only talking about the 90's, then you are not appealing to broader culture, that is a much smaller and specific demographic.
My argument is that the Eclipse in the 90s was what the Mustang was in the 50s and 60s. That's the role they share, and that similarity of being iconic for a certain time period has imbued them with a certain cultural role, which I've observed as consistent across the US in my time living in different areas.
That's the statement you should have made the first time. However, I'd say there are other cars that surpass the Eclipse under those parameters. The actual 90's Mustang, the Celica, the Prelude, maybe a few others are closer to being more iconic in the 90's in line with representing what the 60's Mustang represented in cheap youthful automotive thrills.
I see now, reading back, that I wasn't super clear about this from the get go, but I'm trying to make it as clear as possible now so you can get off your high horse and understand that I'm making a very valid comparison between the Eclipse and the Mustang. I think we're using similar language to talk about two different things, and due to our differences in exposure and experience, we aren't lining up - that's what I'm trying to clarify.
1-That's true.
2-Logic doesn't ride a horse.
3-It's only valid is you don't define the Eclipse as THE iconic equivalent to the Mustang. You've offered nothing to set the Eclipse above the others except FnF which is a 2001 movie that btw used a USED Eclipse. You've been talking about comparing new car prices and only talked about used car prices versus the Supra. The actual FnF iconic car. Maybe you should have stuck to discussing only used tuner Stangs versus used tuner Eclipses. :-\
-
Alright. You asked for it....
If you feel that way, too bad for you I suppose. I'm not responsible for how you feel or perceive reality. Oh well.
I understand your perspective, but it might be in your best interests to at least try to meet people half way and understand their feelings about your mode of communication.
1-No you're not. See below.
2-So you saw fleets of used Gen1/2 Eclipses rolling around in every part of the country apart from SoCal after Fast and Furious came out? I'd be curious how many even existed in the South, Midwest or East coast versus California over that period.
READ MY POST DUDE! I'm not even talking about the people who own the cars! I'm talking about board cultural perception.
Gen 1 Eagle Talon AWD was almost my first car. Almost 10 years before FnF came out.
So you're not in my generation, and therefore obviously have a different perspective. That's fine. I'm just trying to show you my perspective, and a few things I have seen in common from people in my generation.
Point is, when most people think FnF, they think Supra or Dodge Charger. Not Eclipse, Ferrari or RX7.
What? So nobody remembers the first car they saw the protagonist drive in one of the most dramatic scenes of the movie? GTFO.
1-Still waiting for your definition of a 'race car'. Drag? Traffic? Canyons? Pick on the Corolla all you want, but all the other cars I mentioned will jump into most peoples heads before the Eclipse ever does. But since you are on the subject, no Eclipse will match an AE86 Corolla on Ortega/78. Not really relevant, just a fact. Might be relevant depending on how you define 'race car'.
I was defining "race car" as a car people use for street racing.
I don't have any problems with the Corolla; I think it's a great car, and obviously proved its merit in the underground scene. But I don't think most of the general populace, of which I can speak most clearly for my generation, is aware of this.
Well, that's what it sounds like when you talk about your vast experience and qualified opinions. That by definition is an appeal to authority. Otherwise, why did you even bring up your background? Go ahead and LYAO even more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
I'm not committing a logical fallacy, so you can fly a kite with that hot air; if anything, you made a stronger argument from vague authority. I'm just stating my relevant experience to the point I'm making, which you still obviously don't understand.
1-Um, no you haven't. See your second quote at top and the following quote about 'BROADER CULTURAL IMAGE'. Either it's about your select smaller specific demographic or it's about a larger broader group in the demographic. It can't be both. So you need to pick one or the other.
2-I'm reading what you are saying, you just don't appear to know how to say or write what you want to. You're the one suffering a communication disconnect unfortunately from what you are thinking and how you are trying to convey it. I can only go by your specific use of language rather than psychic intervention. So if you want to freak out about that, feel free.
When I say "broad," I'm saying the general populace, in contrast to people who actually street race or tune their cars. Maybe that's what I wasn't making clear. "Broad" was not intended to encompass many generations - I feel like I made that pretty clear a number of times.
Oh the contradictions keep coming. See above.
Again, not talking about cross-generation "broadness" - I very specifically refer to my own generation multiple times, and I find it disingenuous that you choose to ignore this.
I challenge the accuracy of that overgeneralized premise. The RX7 especially has been around a lot longer than the Eclipse has and covers more generations of people. I'm sure I could find a pretty big demographic that hears Eclipse and thinks this, not a 'race car'
I'm sure more of the general populace would think of an Eclipse as a potential street racing car vs. the Corolla.
Wow, my point about the relationship between the defining of culture and markets just went waaay over your head there. None of that is even relevant to the point or consistent with it. People buy cars all the time. The iPhone doesn't invalidate anything. Heck, if I applied your logic, I could say Breaking Bad and the Pontiac Aztek has defined this generation. That would make a whole lot of sense...
What? Breaking Bad would be closer, but wtf? Pontiac Aztec? What point are you even trying to make?
1-Hmm, forum traffic and purchase orders give us hard data as to what's popular in culture versus your personal self-proclaimed 'non-expert' perceptions. Why would I believe you to be more accurate over this data?
Because not everyone who has a perception of the Eclipse in the manner that I'm talking about will visit an audio forum or ever invest in a sports car/tuner. How thick are you?
2-Another appeal to 'popular' culture when you conceded above you are talking about a small select group of Eclipse enthusiasts who were inspired by FnF.
I never claimed to be talking about small groups of enthusiasts - I've been very clear in at LEAST my lasts 2 posts that I'm talking about the general populace of my generation, and nothing to do with tuner groups. You have very clearly and obviously ignored my efforts at clarifying this fact.
1-The fact that you and I already agreed that price does not define a nations cultural icon here.
I'm not saying the Eclipse is a national icon - I'm saying it has iconic status for the majority of my generation.
2-You are confusing defining a cultural icon versus comparing two automobiles based on competitive pricing. Pricing does not define what a cultural icon is. How many times does this need to be said and for you to agree to it?
How many times do I need to reword my actual point before it crosses your cranial membrane? Price DOES have an effect on iconic status by making the car an attainable goal. See my last post.
3-Thought and fact experiment for you. Before the Eclipse came out in the 90's. Which Japanese car competed with the Mustang for that prior 20 years?
Again you ignore the actual point I'm making. Please reread my last post.
4-If you are only talking about the 90's, then you are not appealing to broader culture, that is a much smaller and specific demographic.
YES it is! I'm talking, for the millionth time, about my generation - people born in the late 80s and early 90s.
That's the statement you should have made the first time. However, I'd say there are other cars that surpass the Eclipse under those parameters. The actual 90's Mustang, the Celica, the Prelude, maybe a few others are closer to being more iconic in the 90's in line with representing what the 60's Mustang represented in cheap youthful automotive thrills.
Ok, seems like you are actually interpreting me properly here...for once. But I totally disagree with both of your chosen alternatives. Again, most people wouldn't know what a Honda Prelude even is. In tuner culture, sure; in the broader scope of my generation, good luck. The Celica might be a fair choice, but it just doesn't have the same iconic status and reputation among people of my generation.
1-That's true.
THANK you.
2-Logic doesn't ride a horse.
What? You're being very "logical" in everything you say, but are very clearly ignoring much of what I'm saying, which is pretty illogical if you'd actually like to communicate with me rather than just prove yourself right.
3-It's only valid is you don't define the Eclipse as THE iconic equivalent to the Mustang. You've offered nothing to set the Eclipse above the others except FnF which is a 2001 movie that btw used a USED Eclipse. You've been talking about comparing new car prices and only talked about used car prices versus the Supra. The actual FnF iconic car. Maybe you should have stuck to discussing only used tuner Stangs versus used tuner Eclipses. :-\
The pricing is only an issue insofar as it pertains to the actual attainability of the car - again one of my central points that you are blatantly ignoring.
I'm not saying it's THE iconic equivalent; if I said those words, then I misrepresented the point I was trying to make, which is my fault. But you're not taking kindly to my clarifications, so it's obvious you don't really care what my point is; you just want to be right. Which you are about a number of things, but not the cultural perception of my generation that I am ACTUALLY attempting to clarify, which you would see clearly if you would look at the gestalt message I have been attempting to convey in my posts, rather than taking a hyper-critical interpretation for the sake of proving yourself right, which you are clearly intent on, not to mention deliberately insulting my intelligence and communication skills, which happen to be two of my greatest strengths, so you might reconsider interpreting my posts ingenuously for their intended content, rather than obsessing over exposing the minute logical inconsistencies in my specific phrasing. I've fully admitted that I didn't correctly represent the position I am taking at the outset; if you get your head out of your ass, you might recognize that, and actually try to understand what I'm saying.
Christ. I came to this place hoping to relax and not be misinterpreted or critiqued for everything I say; maybe I'm in the wrong place.
-
Are we making vulgar personal attacks now or are we still the delicate flower. I'd like to know so I can respond appropriate to your chill and relaxed line by line form of casual conversation.
Fair warning, be consistent and honest in your choice or you'll walk the plank.
-
Are we making vulgar personal attacks now or are we still the delicate flower. I'd like to know so I can respond appropriate to your chill and relaxed line by line form of casual conversation.
Fair warning, be consistent and honest in your choice or you'll walk the plank.
I tend to mirror the communication styles of others. Usually it's helpful to establish a mutual understanding; apparently you're finding condescension and belittlement just as distasteful as I did.
And don't threaten me. I don't need to be here; I want to, but I won't lose any sleep if you ban me over something as petty as a debate about the cultural status of a car. In fact if you were to do so, I would be glad to be rid of you. But if you're not that insecure, let's play nice.
-
I tend to mirror the communication styles of others. Usually it's helpful to establish a mutual understanding; apparently you're finding condescension and belittlement just as distasteful as I did.
And don't threaten me. I don't need to be here; I want to, but I won't lose any sleep if you ban me over something as petty as a debate about the cultural status of a car. In fact if you were to do so, I would be glad to be rid of you. But if you're not that insecure, let's play nice.
Gilly, I think you should see what input the HC guys have on this topic. You'll be able to relax there and not be misinterpreted or critiqued for everything you say.
-
Gilly, I think you should see what input the HC guys have on this topic. You'll be able to relax there and not be misinterpreted or critiqued for everything you say.
Don't know what HC is; can't tell if sarcasm...
-
hello,
http://www.head-case.org/forums/
-
I tend to mirror the communication styles of others. Usually it's helpful to establish a mutual understanding; apparently you're finding condescension and belittlement just as distasteful as I did.
And don't threaten me. I don't need to be here; I want to, but I won't lose any sleep if you ban me over something as petty as a debate about the cultural status of a car. In fact if you were to do so, I would be glad to be rid of you. But if you're not that insecure, let's play nice.
1-Apparently your mirror is distorted and doesn't reflect accurately. I've made constructive criticisms with a touch of sarcasm, that's NOT the same as saying things like, "Get your head out of your ass." That's called a vulgar personal attack. It seems you've made some edits since I last read your prior posts which is fine. You might want to reconsider that career as a mime.
2-No I do not find anything you say belittling or condescending even if it gives you satisfaction to believe so. I'm so far beyond such BS sensitivities you have no idea. What I do find is you being hypocritical at first claiming to be oh so sensitive, to then using vulgar comments to attack a person directly.
This is why I asked you SPECIFICALLY to lay your ground rules for dialogue as you are all over the place. You're about as transparent as an Oppo. At least it's consistent with someone who defines words using antonyms and blames others for not understanding wtf they are getting at. I simply wanted to know what I was allowed to get away with without making you cry more.
3-Let's talk about the illogical use of my logic for a second. You come in stating you want a relaxing place to hang out without arguing or being criticized. Then you proceed to initiate exactly that on your own here by offering line by line quotations which you attempt to argue with and contradict in very unclear terms by your own admission. So let's think about whether your expectations match your own behavior. Maybe the problem isn't all these other forums? Anyway, something to think about. I can tell you a Hookah bar might be far more relaxing than this place if that's what you are after. We are a cynical, sarcastic, irreverent lot. Our mascots are Pirates, not dopeheads in Birkenstocks.
4-You are a guest here. Some people joining for the first time have their initial ups and downs getting used to it here. Those that stick around do so because they either have or develop thick skin and come to appreciate our irreverent attitude and 'don't BS me' candor. So it's up to you to figure out if this place is for you and act accordingly, or have me do it for you if you won't make that call.
So like I said, think about it and let me know whether you want to move forward and figure out if this place is for you, leave/lurk, or go to war in this thread and get thrown overboard. That's not a threat or any other perceived thing, it's just another statement of fact like one of many I've made before. We pretty much care if you stay as much as you do it seems. Our mission is not to just please YOU. That said...
I like baseball. People here will actually tell you I'm being nicer than usual today so I'll be generous and say the count is 2-2 so here's the pitch...
:boom:
Btw, maybe you should consider an Eclipse for your next car? :)) Couldn't help myself. ;)
-
Around 1998, I had a 2G Eclipse and my neighbor had a 1G Eclipse. It was kind of funny because I eventually figured out who she was on the forums. (The cars did funny things in Michigan weather, so a lot of notes on shared experience were traded.) Anyways, no one had a clue what those cars were about; and those that did pretty much knew each other. The DSM twins were actually quite unknown in MI.
I also had a Camaro Z28. Everyone knew what the Camaro was about.
-
1-Apparently your mirror is distorted and doesn't reflect accurately. I've made constructive criticisms with a touch of sarcasm, that's NOT the same as saying things like, "Get your head out of your ass." That's called a vulgar personal attack. It seems you've made some edits since I last read your prior posts which is fine. You might want to reconsider that career as a mime.
See, this is the kind of passive aggressive bullshit that is pissing me off. You're a troll, plain and simple - you say inflamatory things in a way that coneys your obvious disdain and sense of superiority, without being vulgar enough to incriminate you.
2-No I do not find anything you say belittling or condescending even if it gives you satisfaction to believe so. I'm so far beyond such BS sensitivities you have no idea. What I do find is you being hypocritical at first claiming to be oh so sensitive, to then using vulgar comments to attack a person directly.
It doesn't give me satisfaction. Again with the superiority.
This is why I asked you SPECIFICALLY to lay your ground rules for dialogue as you are all over the place. You're about as transparent as an Oppo. At least it's consistent with someone who defines words using antonyms and blames others for not understanding wtf they are getting at. I simply wanted to know what I was allowed to get away with without making you cry more.
See? Again with the superiority and thinly veiled mockery. Making me cry more? You're the one who freaked out and started overanalyzing everything when I tried to compare a Mustang to an Eclipse without stating explicitly that I'm speaking from my own generation's perspective. Jeeze dude.
3-Let's talk about the illogical use of my logic for a second. You come in stating you want a relaxing place to hang out without arguing or being criticized. Then you proceed to initiate exactly that on your own here by offering line by line quotations which you attempt to argue with and contradict in very unclear terms by your own admission. So let's think about whether your expectations match your own behavior. Maybe the problem isn't all these other forums? Anyway, something to think about. I can tell you a Hookah bar might be far more relaxing than this place if that's what you are after. We are a cynical, sarcastic, irreverent lot. Our mascots are Pirates, not dopeheads in Birkenstocks.
You just can't stop being disingenuous, can you? I realized I was unclear at first, but I've clarified quite well. It's not my fault you insist on missing the forest for the trees.
4-You are a guest here. Some people joining for the first time have their initial ups and downs getting used to it here. Those that stick around do so because they either have or develop thick skin and come to appreciate our irreverent attitude and 'don't BS me' candor. So it's up to you to figure out if this place is for you and act accordingly, or have me do it for you if you won't make that call.
Lmao...I'm actually a rather irreverent person myself, which you'd know if you met me in real life, but I don't take kindly to passive aggressive trolling, ignorant condescension, and thinly veiled mockery. If you like to chalk that up to your self-image of being "irreverent," that's your business, but to me it smacks of narcissism and a lack of self-awareness.
So like I said, think about it and let me know whether you want to move forward and figure out if this place is for you, leave/lurk, or go to war in this thread and get thrown overboard. That's not a threat or any other perceived thing, it's just another statement of fact like one of many I've made before. We pretty much care if you stay as much as you do it seems. Our mission is not to just please YOU. That said...
Never said or implied you should be trying to please me. Not sure where you're getting THAT from...just thought we were having a conversation, which I assumed you were interested in having, given your presence in the thread, but most of your behavior is pretty indicative that you are more concerned with being right than communicating/learning from others.
I like baseball. People here will actually tell you I'm being nicer than usual today so I'll be generous and say the count is 2-2 so here's the pitch...
:boom:
God your ego...
Btw, maybe you should consider an Eclipse for your next car? :)) Couldn't help myself. ;)
See, if you wanted to have a decent conversation, you wouldn't end it with passive aggression. Now you're just being a plain old bully - mocking me and DARING me to reply with anything but submission.
I think I'll stay, but just avoid you. Unless of course you decide you don't like me and decide to make me leave because we have different opinions. Most people here seem cool.
-
Sorry, it seems you're just too sensitive. Everything is an attack against you, and you are right and I am wrong. That's your idea of a conversation. A joke is a passive aggressive troll against you? Yeah, you're just too thin skinned and your thought process and communication skills are just too incoherent for this place imho. Your last post proves you are unable to take a step back after a night off and see things from another perspective in a constructive manner. You obviously have a strong predisposition to personal bias (e.g.-"intelligence and communication skills are my greatest strength!""I've lived in so many more states than you!""I've been into cars since I was a kid!"). Don't think it'll work out here man.
I think I'll stay, but just avoid you.
No, I don't think so. I'd believe you if that was the first and last thing you had posted. You didn't and went on a multi-quote tirade to get the last word. Talk about disingenuine.
Strike three
(http://i.imgur.com/2haTCxn.gif)
-
Is it possible to follow the example of the dude of all dudes, the one and only "Dude Lebowski?"
(https://blogginganidea.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/tumblr_m99263cukj1rxphcxo1_500.png)
-
Found a used G37 convertible with only 33k on it for under 20k; by you guys' advice I'm going this week to give it a test drive! Hope everything works out.
-
So turns out they sold the drop top and wanted to show me a sedan. Womp womp.
I'll try again next week, if I have the time.
-
Still waffling on this one.
Drove the new Mustang convertible. Fucking ew. Visibility was shit, I felt super cramped, everything inside was ultra plasticky, and I reaffirmed my decision to never buy another soft top.
-
Whenever I see G37 / convertible, I think young douchebag wannabe. I don't know why. INFINITI isn't a real luxury brand anyways. Get a used Porsche Boxster or Miata hardtop. INFINITI is for losers.
-
Geesh, and people think I'm harsh.... :)p13
-
Whenever I see G37 / convertible, I think young douchebag wannabe. I don't know why. INFINITI isn't a real luxury brand anyways. Get a used Porsche Boxster or Miata hardtop. INFINITI is for losers.
A used Boxster would need to be an '09+. Earlier cars with the M96 and M97 are basically rolling grenades, and you never know when that pin might fall out. If you want to be smart though, I'd look at a CPO '13, which go for around $45K. If that's within budget, go for it. If not, the Boxster probably isn't for you.
The new Miata seems to be a great car, but there's obviously nothing luxurious about it at all, pretty different car from a G convertible.
I don't put much stock into what is and isn't a luxury brand. All that really matters to me is whether the product is good or not. Acura isn't really a luxury brand, and its products aren't very good. Volvo isn't really either, but the new XC90 seems to be every bit as good as the latest X5 and M-B GLE, if not better. Should it be discounted just because the Volvo badge doesn't carry the cachet of the Roundel or the 3-pointed star? I don't think so. If Volvo can nail their execution, which they seem to have done, then good for them. If Acura could deliver a product on that same level, I'd say the same thing.
In a lot of ways the Infiniti G is a far more honest car than the Acura TL. The TL has always been sold as a sort of phony "performance" car, particularly in SH-AWD guise, when in actuality it has a FE-FWD layout with some 60%+ of its weight on its nose, and its platform is largely derived from the Accord. Nevermind the ILX which is a Civic wearing a white collar shirt.
The G at least has its engine facing the right way and largely behind the front axle, with a RWD layout and reasonably decent weight balance. It's not as good as the 3 series, but I don't think it's any worse than the historically awful until 5 minutes ago Mercedes C-class. Infiniti cut corners on materials, but mechanically at least, the G is very well made. Worn or peeling trim can also be replaced basically whenever you feel like it, whereas if your old 3 series or C-class has a dash lit up like a Christmas tree, that sort of thing tends to be harder to ignore.
The G sedan and G coupe I think are fine for what they are, and other than the durability of the interior trim, they are pretty smart used buys. The problem I have is with the convertible specifically. It's obvious that Infiniti wanted a piece of the 3 series and A5 cabs, but didn't really design their car with that in mind, so they just went at the G coupe with a hacksaw, and the results are what you would expect.
-
Acura TL (aka fancier Accord) is more for Asians who want something reliable to keep for the long term, not a BMW or Mercedes after 3 years (typical lease) when everything starts to die.
BMWs are for morons and dickish fags (South Park definition) who drive far too fast than their abilities or than the chassis / suspension is capable. Push a BMW (outside of the M series) near or past its limits, and you are totally fucked (I know because I tried this with a 335i.) BMWs only give you the illusion of sportiness. Fine while you stay below 7/10s. The E46 and especially E36 were much more controllable platforms, but that was a much different BMW back then.
Oh yeah. Teslas are the exclusive domain of douchbags (at least in the Valley.)
-
What about Volvo's C-coupés? They are still on the road and look quite elegant for Volvo's. Additionally the engine options are nice.
-
BMWs are for morons and dickish fags (South Park definition) who drive far too fast than their abilities or than the chassis / suspension is capable. Push a BMW (outside of the M series) near or past its limits, and you are totally fucked (I know because I tried this with a 335i.) BMWs only give you the illusion of sportiness. Fine while you stay below 7/10s. The E46 and especially E36 were much more controllable platforms, but that was a much different BMW back then.
Oh yeah. Teslas are the exclusive domain of douchbags (at least in the Valley.)
All of the cars in the compact sport/luxury segment are compromised to some degree compared to a serious performance car. The F30 by all accounts is softer and clumsier than its predecessor (which was the same compared to its predecessors) but that seems to be what the people want. Supposedly they have made some changes to the '16 340i to deal with all of the complaints about dead steering and floaty suspension even on M-sport cars variants, we'll have to see.
The C-class is my favorite of the group at the moment. Because M-B now has the CLA to sell to badge whores chasing the lowest monthly payment, they were able to turn the C into a genuine luxury car with an interior that just embarrasses everyone else.
The ATS seems to be the top of the heap dynamically, but with that car you get the worst of both worlds - Infiniti grade materials quality and German reliability. They can't give them away.
-
What about Volvo's C-coupés? They are still on the road and look quite elegant for Volvo's. Additionally the engine options are nice.
The C70 was dated when it was new nearly 10 years ago, and by 2015 standards it seems older than dirt. It was never that nice either. The VW EOS was a better car, and that's faint praise.
(http://carbuzzard.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/CB-Volvo_C70_2012_T5_Polestar-int_edited-1.jpg)
-
The C-class is my favorite of the group at the moment. Because M-B now has the CLA to sell to badge whores chasing the lowest monthly payment, they were able to turn the C into a genuine luxury car with an interior that just embarrasses everyone else.
Indeed, the new Cs are really nice. Nothing at all like my mom's old C which was an embarrassment (my mom, having been burned from the experience, decided to go Lexus to avoid fixing something every 3 months). Friend of my wife let me drive and sit in her new C (she's one of those MB badge whores).
The knob, turny wheel control thing, and screen was 280% lame though. I can press things on my touchscreen display in my BRZ. The MB screen wasn't a touch screen, and it felt like playing a level of Atari breakout to change bass and treble settings on the radio. If Germans ever made user interfaces for combat planes, pilots would have died.
-
The knob, turny wheel control thing, and screen was 280% lame though. I can press things on my touchscreen display in my BRZ. The MB screen wasn't a touch screen, and it felt like playing a level of Atari breakout to change bass and treble settings on the radio. If Germans ever made user interfaces for combat planes, pilots would have died.
I was very surprised when I saw that the latest BMW 7 series that was just unveiled has a touch screen setup combined with iDrive. It has gesture controls as well (which apparently don't work very well yet), but I didn't see that coming since all three of the German luxury trio have screamed "nein!" to the idea of touch screens for well over a decade. Oddly VW has never had a problem using them, which isn't to say that VW's interfaces are any good.
I also wouldn't have guessed that Volvo would come up with one of the best touch based UIs on the market for the new XC90. Volvo systems in the past were absolutely horrendous, but they clearly did their homework. Acura's double stuff on the other hand is a total disaster, as is Infiniti's similar double stuff in the Q50. Lexus Remote Touch sucks as well.
-
My 2001 Prius has a touch screen. I think Lexus puts a control device there just so they can say they have one like BMW and Audi otherwise cross shoppers get confused. They'll use it as a reason not to consider it. I've always found the idea stupid. Everything should be on the steering wheel anyway. I want to see the first person to crash or get ticketed for trying to initiate a buggy gesture control.
Buying luxury cars is almost like an IQ test for the rich. You bought a BMW without manual door locks that traps people inside and suffocates them? Your Tesla has automated door handles that crush your fingers? Your MB wipers keep breaking because they make four independent movements on each wipe to catch that last centimeter of windshield surface in the corner?
facepalm
-
You bought a BMW without manual door locks that traps people inside and suffocates them?
BMW already thought of that. Pull out headrest and try to smash window. Not with the cushion part, but with tip of metal bar. Might take a while though.
-
My 2001 Prius has a touch screen. I think Lexus puts a control device there just so they can say they have one like BMW and Audi otherwise cross shoppers get confused. They'll use it as a reason not to consider it. I've always found the idea stupid. Everything should be on the steering wheel anyway. I want to see the first person to crash or get ticketed for trying to initiate a buggy gesture control.
Buying luxury cars is almost like an IQ test for the rich. You bought a BMW without manual door locks that traps people inside and suffocates them? Your Tesla has automated door handles that crush your fingers? Your MB wipers keep breaking because they make four independent movements on each wipe to catch that last centimeter of windshield surface in the corner?
facepalm
That's the problem Lexus was trying to "solve" I think when they came up with Remote Touch a few years ago. Touch screens have become associated with cheap mainstream cars because they are the easiest to implement, you can just shove a radio with a touch screen in a double DIN hole and you're done. It's also a problem if your luxury UI is too similar to your mainstream UI - see "MyLincolnTouch" which is MFT with the word "Ford" crossed out...which isn't too far off from what a Lincoln is in general.
So in order to not have your ES350 not look too much like a Camry LE, you have to come up with some kind of Rube Goldberg device to avoid being able to touch anything, and some of these are definitely better than others.
Non mechanical door pulls are stupid in all circumstances, and the results can definitely be tragic.
http://q13fox.com/2015/06/10/elderly-man-dog-die-because-car-doors-wouldnt-unlock/
-
How many new cars are there that aren't full of that kind of shit?
At this rate I'm gonna be stuck with antique vehicle plate before long.
-
How many new cars are there that aren't full of that kind of shit?
At this rate I'm gonna be stuck with antique vehicle plate before long.
for convertibles, that's probably the way to go.
just helped a friend buy a 325Ci (dark blue convertible), totally droolworthy, even if it is 15 years old...
-
for convertibles, that's probably the way to go.
just helped a friend buy a 325Ci (dark blue convertible), totally droolworthy, even if it is 15 years old...
I'm not so sure about that. Cowl shake is definitely a lot better now than it used to be. The G convertible shakes pretty badly as a result of it being a hack job, but cars that were designed from the get go to be drop tops usually come out pretty well. Convertibles from days past on the other hand will flop around like a dead fish.
-
How many new cars are there that aren't full of that kind of shit?
At this rate I'm gonna be stuck with antique vehicle plate before long.
Get a glorious Jaguar E-Type and whenever people doubt your choice of car recite the Clarkson speech.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66owXqZaexs
Fast forward to 6:09.
-
Even the new Mustang coupe has nasty cowl shake. Oh wait, that's not a convertible. facepalm
-
Even the new Mustang coupe has nasty cowl shake. Oh wait, that's not a convertible. facepalm
So the bean counters at Ford prefer rubber bands over actual body/coach reinforcements? Good to know...
Edit: confused Ford with GM. I hope Ford U.S. has higher standards than GM.
-
Mustang is not made by GM, at least in this universe.
-
Mustang is not made by GM, at least in this universe.
Leave him be Jason. He's Dutch and rides a bicycle.
-
LOL, yep, but agreed...though I think the Mustang has more hood shake than cowl shake, at least in coupe form.
Still not confidence inspiring, but perhaps not surprising given the stoopid length of the hood and the giant airplane-wing bulge in the middle of it, either to cover the refrigerator-sized engine options, or because of equally stooopid Euro pedestrian crash standards.
The hood on the new Camaro is about 1/2 as long as the Mustang.
And, to give GM some credit, my ZL1 convertible doesn't have a problem with hood shake, and is at least as good cowl-shake-wise as the best convertibles I've been in (Viper, C7.) It's WAYYYYY more rigid than a BMW 6 series convertible, for example.
-
Oh god, a Corvette ZR1 with any kind of shake would be disaster.
I was shocked Ford didn't fix the hood on the Stang. Err, maybe not. I'm guessing it's not aluminum but stamped steel by the way it flexes.
-
Leave him be Jason. He's Dutch and rides a bicycle.
Indeed. I can recommend it.
I leave the petrolhead talk to you. I have to ride my bicycle.
P.S. The new generation of American muscle cars looks very good. European standards are literally weighing down cars.
-
Indeed. I can recommend it.
I leave the petrolhead talk to you.
Nah, I'm just messin' with ya. ;) :-*
-
The Ford Modular engine was and probably still is one the biggest piece of crap motors ever made. It took Ford what? Like almost 10 years to finally get top end power and low end torque out of it. The motor is stupid fricking huge and heavy.
-
The Ford Modular engine was and probably still is one the biggest piece of crap motors ever made. It took Ford what? Like almost 10 years to finally get top end power and low end torque out of it. The motor is stupid fricking huge and heavy.
What's amazing is that it actually isn't that heavy, and they've done a decent job with the additional frictional loss of a 4-cam setup (frequently overlooked on V8s). The thing is, it is friggin huge. I mean, idiotically, stoooooopidly huge. The first time I saw a 4-cam mod motor up close (in a Terminator), I was, like "What the hell is that? A washing machine? A refrigerator?" I was literally stunned.
Say what you will about the "archaic" LS/LT series engines, but they are very small and efficient. And GM doesn't usually forget shit like oil coolers and trans coolers and diff coolers you need for getting around a track.
The new GT350 is intriguing, but the low price makes me wonder if Ford (a) left something critical off of it (as in, you need the R version if you're really gonna track it), or (b) knows something about the competition that really makes them think they screwed the dog, or (c) it really is more of a good looker than a track numbers machine. We'll see. In any case, I'm not against lower prices on halo cars--hopefully it will encourage the competition not to stick it to us car-crazy guys as much.
-
The 351 Windsor was the cat's meow though. Especially the old Mexican castings. You have to give Muricans time to figure out things like OHC. GM's Northstar didn't exactly set the world on fire.
-
Haha. I'd rather put an LS motor into a old Mustang than a Modular. GM took the right approach evolving from the Chevy small black. (Ford is a strange company - Modular seemed like an overly complex half-baked project for so long, and they still haven't got the efficiency they wanted.) Heck, people are shoving LS motors into FR-S/BRZs:
(http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/brzlsx.jpg)
-
Haha. I'd rather put an LS motor into a old Mustang than a Modular. GM took the right approach evolving from the Chevy small black. (Ford is a strange company - Modular seemed like an overly complex half-baked project for so long, and they still haven't got the efficiency they wanted.) Heck, people are shoving LS motors into FR-S/BRZs:
(http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/brzlsx.jpg)
Now, that's gotta be 100% nuts.
-
p:0
-
People put LS motors in anything. Some redneck dipshit told me I needed to replace my Jag's 6.0 V12 with an LS. Yeah right, go drink a Budweiser dumbass.
The new flat plane crank Ford V8 is pretty sweet man. Not sure what you mean they haven't hit their efficiency targets. 526hp out of 5.2L is pretty darned good considering current emissions. I don't think GM has ever hit 100hp/L on a factory LS without a supercharger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvCdoEfYXao
-
I haven't kept up. You of all people should know that I live about 4-10 years behind the times.
-
I haven't kept up. You of all people should know that I live about 4-10 years behind the times.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, rather than put that bitchin' motor in the new Ford GT, they are going with an Ecoboost V6s. Going to sound like shit.
-
Well, if it makes you feel any better, rather than put that bitchin' motor in the new Ford GT, they are going with an Ecoboost V6s. Going to sound like shit.
Huh, WTF? Why won't they put that motor or smaller displacement version of it in the GT? That's dumb. Are they really going to turbo the GTs?
Anyways, still took them 10 years. The Modular should have been close to 100hp/liter from day one.
-
Huh, WTF? Why won't they put that motor or smaller displacement version of it in the GT? That's dumb. Are they really going to turbo the GTs?
Anyways, still took them 10 years. The Modular should have been close to 100hp/liter from day one.
V6 is smaller package for less weight and better handling. They want to race it at Le Mans. A ford GT without the sound of a mid-engine V8 is not a ford GT to me.
-
Just read up on the new Mustang Shelby GT350. $50K not a bad price. Wonder how it will handle with the Magneride? This is good - keep GM on its toes. Still waiting for the mid-engine Corvette.
-
Get a glorious Jaguar E-Type and whenever people doubt your choice of car recite the Clarkson speech.
My dad has a '71 E-type 4.2 Series II. It looks absolutely absurd in modern parking spaces parked next to modern cars, like a toy because of how small it is. It also makes the current gen XK8 parked next to it in the garage look like a fat whale.
-
I love the size of older sports cars. Modern cars are hungry hungry hippos by comparison. Even my FRS which is dwarfed by current cars is taller than my XJS which is an extremely long car for a 2 door coupe. Long but short.
-
I love the size of older sports cars. Modern cars are hungry hungry hippos by comparison. Even my FRS which is dwarfed by current cars is taller than my XJS which is an extremely long car for a 2 door coupe. Long but short.
IMO the XJS was the last real Jag Jag. Before his string of XKs my dad had the last of the breed, a '96 convertible. Ergonomically it was awful, it handled like a pig, and the electrics barely worked, but the inside was like a poor man's Bentley, far better than the shitty looking R129 Benz SL of that period. The drop in quality of the '97 Ford Jag XK8 was shocking. He had two of those first gen Ford XKs, I hated them both.
-
I-6 or V12? Did his '96 have the older Lucas electronics or the newer Magneti Marelli? I got my '94 coupe specifically for the MM electronics (that and AC plus better cylinder head design) which have been stellar so far. Stock it handles horribly. You really realize what these older cars felt like to drive. I know it's pretty easy fix though. Not a problem. I don't think ergonomics were invented yet back then, lol. One of the pet peeves is finding a wiper blade to conform to the massive curved windshield. Like trying to fit a chopstick to a basketball.
-
I-6 or V12? Did his '96 have the older Lucas electronics or the newer Magneti Marelli? I got my '94 coupe specifically for the MM electronics (that and AC plus better cylinder head design) which have been stellar so far. Stock it handles horribly. You really realize what these older cars felt like to drive. I know it's pretty easy fix though. Not a problem. I don't think ergonomics were invented yet back then, lol. One of the pet peeves is finding a wiper blade to conform to the massive curved windshield. Like trying to fit a chopstick to a basketball.
I-6. He was too nervous of the 12's famous foibles to go that route, though he only ended up keeping the car for two years before buying a '98 XK. Not sure about the electronics, I just remember being pulled over driving home at night because the headlights and brake lights were working, but all interior lights and the tail lights were dark. The cop said "Jag, huh" and laughed, and said that since the brake lights still came on, I could drive it home and have it fixed. If the car had gone completely dark he'd have to have it towed, which wouldn't have gone over well at home.
-
My dad has a '71 E-type 4.2 Series II. It looks absolutely absurd in modern parking spaces parked next to modern cars, like a toy because of how small it is. It also makes the current gen XK8 parked next to it in the garage look like a fat whale.
Your dad has taste. I congratulate you with an E-Type in the family.
-
Your dad has taste. I congratulate you with an E-Type in the family.
Yeah it's cool. Of course his preference would be a later run S1 when it still had the covered lights, aluminum dash and original switchgear instead of the awful switches of later cars, but S1s are BIG money these days.
-
I have a storage unit in Manhattan Beach and the guy in the unit over has an E-type he stores inside his unit WITH the rest of his storage. The thing really is tiny when he rolls it out.
Years ago I had a V12 XJ-S that was fun at the time, but had endless eletrical issues. If you turned on one thing, something else unrelated would come on. I had to unplug the battery each night to keep it from draining. Ever time they "fixed" the problem, something similar would pop back up.
-
Could you not strip the electric gizmos, keep the essentials and have a great bare bones Jaguar with a glorious engine? I am not the petrolhead I used to be but there is something about Jaguars and the engines they developed for decades.
If I would be a millionaire I would buy a Lister GP Jaguar "official replica" and call it a day with that glorious 3.8 V6. Enough dreaming for me...
-
Yeah, I wish I had it now. At the time it was just my wife's typical luxury car so it got traded in after too much trouble.
-
Years ago I had a V12 XJ-S that was fun at the time, but had endless eletrical issues.
Remember what year it was?