Today I read the news. I read the news multiple times.
Then I read about this smart kid Ahmed who likes building things. He is 14 years old and takes DIY clock to school.
Well you read the news I assume and I feel anger and shame. If this is how smart kids are treated, fuck society.
The country where NASA operates, jails a 14 year old kid for a DIY clock.
The Western world is fucked if fear is to ruin young minds...
P.S.
Sorry, I have to get this out of my system.
At first I was outraged... until I saw what he built.
(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/880/558/Texas%20Muslim%20Student%20_DeMa.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
I'm sorry, but that kid is 80% at fault. It had nothing to do with his race or his religion. I've built similar electronics type kits when I was in junior high. None of those kits I built could ever have been mistaken for a bomb like the above. I wouldn't be surprised if that kid told some of his classmates that it was a bomb.
So much for your liberal media at work fanning the flames of hate. If I was a cop or school administrator and saw that briefcase, I would have been very very worried. Remember what the Tsarnaev brothers or the joker guy did wasn't all that long ago. And yeah, politicians and the peanut gallery should just shut the fuck up until they learn about the details of the case. If you guys have ever personally dealt with media, you would understand how the media can distort things way out of proportion.
At first I was outraged... until I saw what he built.
(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/880/558/Texas%20Muslim%20Student%20_DeMa.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
I'm sorry, but that kid is 80% at fault. It had nothing to do with his race or his religion. I've built similar electronics type kits when I was in junior high. None of those kits I built could ever have been mistaken for a bomb like the above. I wouldn't be surprised if that kid told some of his classmates that it was a bomb.
So much for your liberal media at work fanning the flames of hate. If I was a cop or school administrator and saw that briefcase, I would have been very very worried. Remember what the Tsarnaev brothers or the joker guy did wasn't all that long ago. And yeah, politicians and the peanut gallery should just shut the fuck up until they learn about the details of the case. If you guys have ever personally dealt with media, you would understand how the media can distort things way out of proportion.
I think it's disrespectful to educators and law enforcement to come to conclusions too soon. They have a difficult job. Sometimes a split-second decision could result in lives saved. And again, keep in mind news-media distortion.
If you guys have ever personally dealt with media, you would understand how the media can distort things way out of proportion.Been there, done that. And Marvey has understated how bad it can be.
Everyone in the world thinks it's their godamn fucking right to do anything they want, push the limits, and then not take responsibility and claim victimhood.
None of us were there. We don't have any the facts other than the "facts" delivered to us by the media.
Obviously none of you guys have kids in schools, have dealt with security procedures at schools (or anywhere else which requires such procedures), have friends who work in law enforcement, or have experienced media distort events so they could sell papers.
Obviously none of you guys have kids in schools, have dealt with security procedures at schools (or anywhere else which requires such procedures), have friends who work in law enforcement, or have experienced media distort events so they could sell papers.[/font
I have. For 30 years. Until the media dust clears, I will not judge what anyone did. Been there too many times. In my experience the media gets it wrong at first most of the time. It's the need to be "breaking news". To hell with accuracy.
It had nothing to do with his race or his religion.
P.S. Kid should have made a headphone amplifier.
What I hate is that the world is in such a place where this kind of reaction is even possible.
Building a 'clock' that looks like a 'bomb' and taking it to school on 9/11 and also being a Muslim from Sudan is a lot of happy 'coincidences' and circumstantial facts to just turn a blind eye to.
Are we supposed to look the other way because he's only a kid? You know how many kids have cut heads off of people because of ISIS?
If a liberal teacher can call the cops and have a kid arrested and expelled for making a gun gesture with his hand while playing during recess, you sure as shit can do the same to an Islamic kid who makes a 'clock' that looks like a bomb and brings it school on the anniversary of 9/11. Personally, this whole thing looks suspiciously calculated to draw attention and incite an emotional response from all sides.
Jesus. I agree with Anaxilus.
Jesus. I agree with Anaxilus.
hello,
as do i.
I have. For 30 years. Until the media dust clears, I will not judge what anyone did. Been there too many times. In my experience the media gets it wrong at first most of the time. It's the need to be "breaking news". To hell with accuracy.THIS. until we actually see the clock in the form the teachers saw it in, how can we really judge whether a reasonable person would find it suspicious or whether it's a case of a racist and dumb teacher? Reminds me of this incident which was total retardation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scarehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare
The only thing positive to come out of this is that Ahmed just got his ticket punched to a first rate career and some proper education and he seems like the kind of kid who will make something of it. Best of luck to him.
And anyone who thinks that this wasn't the actual outcome that his father was aiming to get from this media circus is kidding themselves. Well orchestrated.
If he had taken this to school (which you can simply buy in a store) would that be a no-no in the US ?
Guys, the kid is 14. Remember when you were 14? Were you smart enough to predict the actions of adults to something other then black and white situations?
a clock display + exposed wires SHOULD arouse concern.
Bravo! Nails it. Another case of an Islamic father manipulating his children to gain political capital and sympathy from western dunderheads.
If he had taken this to school (which you can simply buy in a store) would that be a no-no in the US ?
If he had taken this to school (which you can simply buy in a store) would that be a no-no in the US ?
Why? Surely real bomb makers don't make something that looks so obviously like a bomb? oh-my-god-its-got-wires: Is that the limit of modern inteligence and observation? Or just the extent, coupled with certain appearnacnces, skin colours, and names, of modern bigotry?
Now, back to Ahmed for a moment, I do have an issue with the response if his project was a) known about in advance of that day, b) part of an assignment, and c) seen by a teacher that day, who did not report it when he saw it (meaning someone within "the school" knew conclusively it was not a dangerous item). Those facts tend to make less reasonable Ahmed's later detention, arrest, etc.
Stick to audio, Marv. That's a subject on which you have some semblance of a clue.If this is your America, I want no fucking part of it.
We don't have any facts. For all we know Ahmed or perhaps a classmate could have initially joked "it's a bomb" when the teacher asked what was beeping, and then things rapidly went south from there.
Another? Do you have a list, or is that just an outright slur?
I've never seen a bomb, and I hope I never do, but if I ever do, and I get to register anything before the final big flash in my life, I doubt very much that it will have a digital display, wires hanging out of it ...
Why? Surely real bomb makers don't make something that looks so obviously like a bomb? oh-my-god-its-got-wires: Is that the limit of modern inteligence and observation? Or just the extent, coupled with certain appearnacnces, skin colours, and names, of modern bigotry?
I going to keep repeating this until you guys get it. The teachers HAVE NO CHOICE because of their security training and security policies and procedures. If they see wires, or freak-out because they imagined they saw wires, they call the cops.
No, I just made it up obviously. BBC News must be failing you.
Are you completely nutz? So if you see something that looks like a bomb, you'll ignore it because it's too obvious just so you can preserve your skewed sense of racial egalitarianism? See, this is the result of political correctness. Trading lives for "feelings". What an utterly stupid thing. I wish there was a better word but there simply isn't.
From what I'm reading he brought in the circuit boards in a pencil case. Cops confiscated it and put it in that case. But feel free to delete this comment if it runs counter to your narrative
The kid was a dumbass for bringing that to school and you can't fault the teacher for calling the cops. I fail to see how suspension punishes the kid though; he will just sit at home and play video games all day.
Done. Forgive my long rant. No agenda.
OK. I got it. Like a lot of the stuff that we go through at airports it may be bullshit, but if that if is the rules, regulations, procedures, enforced this that and the other, then I cannot blame the individuals. I acknowledge that they have to be able to tick the boxes. And no, if something goes wrong, especially in the area of child safety, I wouldn't want to be the guy with an unticked box on the list.
Yes, indeed, the BBC often fails me. I've almost given up on its website as a source of international news, and completely given up on it as a sort-of-link to the country I used to live in. As to news about the country I do live in, it's coverage is regularly ignorant, condescending and crap.
Because of where I live, if you say "Islam," or "Muslim," to me, I do not immediately think of Arabs or the Middle East: I think of the people across the road, or the guy who repairs our AC machines. It may be a different kind of bias, but it does help me not to think of Islam as being automatically Arab. Don't they come in different colours where you live?
Also because of where I live, and because I had a lot to do with members of another South-Asian-origin community before I came here, I am very familiar with obsessive, high-pressure parents who give their children no alternative than to overachieve. Sure, I'd be wrong to say that that is exclusively S. Asian, but hey, I've known a few. I cannot see, though, even under that heading, that your theory holds water. It's too far fetched. And Too dangerous: what if the kid got shot?
No I am not completely nutz. so... what does a bomb look like, and what does it not look like?
I tell you one thing, though: If I ever thought that I was seeing a bomb, I wouldn't pause to take note of races/religions. Which is why the rest of the quote is nonsense.
Kid brought it on account of his engineering/science teacher.
Maybe someone can explain to me why they didn't just check with said teacher before calling in authorities.
Of course Anax is going to twist things to somehow blame radical islam for a teacher overreacting to a science project. Absolutely wacko. Should I post pictures of IDF using children human shields too? ughhh
Every situation is different, you make the best decision you can at the moment. Sometimes it is the right one, sometimes you might have handled it differently. Sometimes you totally screw up. But today everyone can be an armchair consultant, and as a result can judge you based on what they read, hear, or worse what they are told is the "true" motivation for the action taken. One is then found guilty or not, told by millions what you should have done, even your motives are "proven" and then you are sentenced in the court of public opinion. And not just by the local community, but by the world. All in less than 72 hours. This goes both ways. Then it expands to a discussion of what ever socitial, security, racism etc. issue that people perceive it to be connected to. It sometimes becomes a symbol. The people of power chime in. Battle lines are drawn. Sometimes the facts of the incident are forgotten, or so quickly re-written to conform to whatever point someone is trying to make. For example I have read it occurred on 9/11. Not true. But now it's out there.
Sometimes it's just a 14 year old that was proud of what he had done. Wanted to show it to an important adult in his or her life and didn't think any further than a 14 year old does and things spiraled out of control.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
He said he put it in this case himself (go to 1:08). And Austin is right, seems a bit on the spectrum.
The kid was a dumbass for bringing that to school and you can't fault the teacher for calling the cops.
What sort of confused and convoluted question revolves around what a bomb doesn't look like
You asked for specific examples
Stick to the case at hand rather than trying to instigate race wars
See the thread heading!
:)p13 :)p13 :)p13
You were on about some imagined plot by an Islamic father to benefit his son. It was you that lost your own plot after that.
What, me? Was I the one who tried to stereotype Islamic Fathers?
Oh... come on...
Because when people get scared they freak out and act instinctively. I'd like to see how you'd react if you were standing next to the LA Marathon and happened to see what looked like a pressure cooker in an unattended bag. You going to spend 15 minutes walking around asking everyone if it's theirs?
I see actual logic isn't going to get us anywhere...
Yes, any links and evidence that runs contrary to your own bias is strictly imaginary.
Yes, actually it was you for thinking Islamic parents are beyond such things.
The evidence is clearly against your notion of a wonderful world where these things don't happen.
I only mentioned it as a possibility backed up by actual evidence and what was known at the time per the wonderful media.
Bravo! Nails it. Another case of an Islamic father manipulating his children to gain political capital and sympathy from western dunderheads.
Thanks for the video! And yeah, pretty much what I thought.
My guess is that it's not so much intelligence as it is SCD/SPD - Social-Communication/Social-Pragmatics Disorder. (Generally, people call it PLI - Pragmatic Language Impairment - these days, but it's more than just language but social contextual clues as well.)
My guess is that the teacher who told him not to let anyone else see it thought that he would understand the subtext well enough. (HINT: People might think its a bomb.) People with PLI won't get that. He even plugged it in in the middle of class without understanding what people might be worried about. I bet he explained the clock to the cops and other teachers just like he did on the video, probably in nearly the same pitch and cadence.
Btw, anyone else feel it's time we started holding the media accountable for false reporting? The people need to come after these scumbag yellow journalists.
Context is important. When I see unattended bag at airport or train station I might wonder. If I see brown kid with science project in school my mind doesn't immediately jump to "allahu-ackbar". Maybe my brain would more easily make that sort of jump if I had eaten a few burgers on the way to class and jerked off to pictures of Reagan. The American brain is truly an incredible phenomena. All that body fat is seeping in there and disrupting neuron firing.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/muslim-student-arrested-hoax-bomb-clock-150916062821415.html
According to the kid he did tell them repeatedly that it was a clock and not a bomb. Maybe he wasn't understood well enough because of nerdy autistic speech patterns. Also, as I understand, was a violation of his rights to be questioned without parents. The fact that they tried to get him to sign some papers is very shady. This is what the issue should be about. Assuming guilt based on imaginary 24 scenario. At least he didn't get waterboarded by Chuck Norris Texas Ranger with a freedom boner.
Simple question then... can police question minors without permission from parents? I am not a lawyer so someone else can explain the nuance of this situation to me.
The Supreme Court held that the trial judge improperly denied the boy's request to throw out the statements he made to police because he did not receive the proper Miranda notification. The Court recognized the fact that, because of their relative immaturity and lack of experience, children "cannot be viewed simply as miniature adults".
Since minors' comprehension of their situation differs from that of adults, the Court reasoned, their understanding of when a questioning constitutes custody will also differ. Minors may experience more acquiescence to authority, and so may require Miranda notifications in situations that would not trigger the Miranda requirement for adults.
Yes, law enforcement personnel are allowed to question minors without their parents. They are also allowed to question minors without a lawyer present. Don't ask how I know this. This isn't TV.
Asking questions is not necessarily the same thing as taking someone into custody. It's not black and white. Obviously when you get cuffs on you and you hear "you have the right to remain silent"...
A judge of course can throw out any self incriminating statements before Miranda was read.
(click to show/hide)
Five officers and senior school officials in closed room with scrawny 14-year old might just be detainment. Kid wouldn't have thought he could walk out of there.
OK I'm braking a promise not to post again. AV, based on your description , in my experience most high school freshmen have PLI. Those of us who have worked with freshman have other names for it. :)
For decades I have gone over the safety rules about not putting metal objects into electrical sockets. I even did a demo showing how a pickle would be electrocuted with ordinary 110V plugs. I used a real pickle, explaining that the pickle was like a person, had salt etc. One year a boy ran up, grabbed the electrocuted pickle before I could stop him and ate it! Every year for at least 15 years, some freshman boy at some point during the year, would stick a paper clip onto a socket and knock himself to the floor. 14 is an amazing year for humans. It is a wonder we survive it. I could write a book. All I can say is if any of you have a 14 year old, and they do something really incomprehensible and you ask them what they where thinking? If they reply "I don't know", that is the truthful answer. Accept it.
I am not surprised at all that this young man plugged his clock in during class. Maybe we should start a thread for pirate parents to help explain what they may see from about 13 to 15 with their children.
Of course Anax is going to twist things to somehow blame radical islam for a teacher overreacting to a science project. Absolutely wacko. Should I post pictures of IDF using children human shields too?
I've been in that situation and never once thought I was "detained". And I was younger than that kid.
Well Google tells me otherwise but maybe I'm missing something.
http://criminal.findlaw.com/juvenile-justice/police-questioning-of-minors.html (http://criminal.findlaw.com/juvenile-justice/police-questioning-of-minors.html)
Five officers and senior school officials in closed room with scrawny 14-year old might just be detainment. Kid wouldn't have thought he could walk out of there.
Did you read the link I posted? Looks like the Supreme Court determined that such a situation was a detainment and threw out his confession. Congrats on being a tough guy though
What's your point? What law enforcement did not was illegal.
Your original question what whether law enforcement is allowed to question minors without their parents or a lawyer present; not whether statements made under these circumstances by minors is admissible as evidence in court.
You shifted the argument.
So then any sort of written statement they got out of him during that questioning would be inadmissible in court then. You agree?
Did you read the link I posted? Looks like the Supreme Court determined that such a situation was a detainment and threw out his confession. Congrats on being a tough guy though
This thread took quite the turn.
This kind of stuff won't happen on the new site. TheGame has been instructed to kill these kinds of threads. Consider these threads the last gasps of Changstar.Even threads like the headphone acquisition flowchart one?
But while we are at it, feel free to start burning the place down.
This kind of free-wheeling 90's arguments is going to end like Changstar's 90's design.
Things just aren't the same as the 90's anymore. Thankfully we'll always have Portland.
This kind of stuff won't happen on the new site. TheGame has been instructed to kill these kinds of threads. Consider these threads the last gasps of Changstar.
This article should put final context on this incident for folks who don't follow current events in the U.S. or are otherwise misinformed.That was a practice Common Core exam. The Principal just missed the inservice that day. It was in the last NEA newsletter. :)p13 But the cloud got 5 days. :spank:
(http://sadmoment.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/School-Suspends-a-2nd-Grade-Student-For-Eating-a-Pop-Tart-Into-a-Gun-Shape.jpg)
(http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/attachments/chit-chat/229232d1362760452-image.jpg)
This article should put final context on this incident for folks who don't follow current events in the U.S. or are otherwise misinformed.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/09/suspicious_poptart_guns_versus_scientific_suitcase_clocks.html
(http://sadmoment.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/School-Suspends-a-2nd-Grade-Student-For-Eating-a-Pop-Tart-Into-a-Gun-Shape.jpg)
(http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/attachments/chit-chat/229232d1362760452-image.jpg)
haha, buzzz, try again.........
another quote to help..... "But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies."
Edit-Google says it was said by the notorious Arctic Fox.
Which President said he's been to 57 states? :)p8
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner, Foxy Sarah!
I'll guess "W"
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp
Swing and a miss for a tired Obama, looks like.