CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Lobby => The Meeting Place => Topic started by: jexby on July 27, 2015, 10:12:20 PM
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A small but loyal group, the
Clandestine Colorado Changstar Pyrates (CCCP)
have organized a small meet on Aug 1, and will post impressions here.
(space was limited to only a few pirates due to office building size.)
Equipment will be a scattering of our rigs:
DACs: Yggy, DAC2X, X-sabre, Audial Model S MkII, Ultra-Fi DAC41, GOV2+Infinity, iFi iDSD micro, Redacted. modi something.
Amps: Lyr2 with SS tubes, and Siemens/Telefunken. EC Black Widow, Mjolnir, Lake People G109S, Valhalla2, Pete Millet Butte, Elekit TU-8200 DX. maybe Vali, maybe Ember.
Headphones: multiple stock HD800 (cmon Anax 3.0!), HE-560, HE-1000, Mad Dog, HD650 modded, PM-2 modded.
more soon!
:boom:
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NICE!!! Cant wait to see the pics and impressions from the meet!
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DACs: Yggy, DAC2X, X-sabre, Audial Model S MkII, Ultra-Fi DAC41, GOV2+Infinity, iFi iDSD micro, Redacted. modi something.
Amps: Lyr2 with SS tubes, and Siemens/Telefunken. EC Black Widow, Mjolnir, Lake People G109S, Valhalla2, Pete Millet Butte, Elekit TU-8200 DX. maybe Vali, maybe Ember.
Headphones: multiple stock HD800 (cmon Anax 3.0!), HE-560, HE-1000, Mad Dog, HD650 modded, PM-2 modded.
Jelly :)p1
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Looks like you guys are covered. I don't have anything to send you.
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Looks like you guys are covered. I don't have anything to send you.
we didn't ask because we knew an EC Studio wasn't possible or cost effective for shipping.
:)p7
and Mister R can just bring his Studio to CCCP Minimeet #2.
:)p13
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Newsflash!
:-0
FedEx has sent notice that the CCCP Boulder mini meet will be the location for the FIRST EVER public appearance of a new.....?
Photos soon!
:)p1
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and Mister R can just bring his Studio to CCCP Minimeet #2.
Count on it :-)
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the mystery box has arrived in Boulder.
p:/
plugged in and warming up on site now.
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Ok - got all my schiit packed up, see you mates around 10am!
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Pyrates all listening in private rooms until 4pm approx!
A ton of cool gear all over the place. Tubes, SS, NOS DACs or not, Redacted and SS tubes, HE1Ks, good mix.
Impressions, highlights and photos all coming this week(end) as time allows.
:)p6
Get ready to play photoshop games adding in lil napoleons.
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Wow, a number of totl dacs and amps all around, and quiet sanctuary. What a meet! Lot of impressions, but right now just letting the brain relax from the auditory excitement. Man there was a lot of
good er, really good stuff to hear.
And I still did not hear it all................
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Yea, fantastic time mates. Good gear, quite environment, hanging out with good dudes. These mini-meets really need to be in the regular rotation.
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Yes, just excellent all around... I still can't believe the shear amount of top sounding gear there, truly great.
Thanks again to jexby and to everyone for participating and making this a great meet. I really enjoyed meeting everyone, some for the first time and others for the second; really great company, with a ton of knowledge and great ears! Even though there was a ton of gear there and I wasn't able to listen to it all, I was able to get some really great impressions of quite a few top-notch DACs/amps/headphones.
Impressions to come soon...! :)p6
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Definitely had a good time with you guys! Will have impressions up tomorrow, probably.
In the meantime, it seems I came home with an extra switching power supply, like what you'd use in a laptop. Not sure if I snagged it thinking it was for the Ember or if someone left it with me accidentally. Hoping it wasn't supposed to stay at the meet environment! Can ship it ASAP to whoever it belongs to.
Good to see we've brought in a new pyrate as well! :)p1 Someday, I'd like to setup your Elekit amp with my source and compare against the other tube amps I have. Seems like a nice amp from what I heard, though.
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Pictures!
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Just a few gear shots
(http://www.prettygoodsoftware.net/DIY/IMG_0846.png)
(http://www.prettygoodsoftware.net/DIY/IMG_0847.png)
(http://www.prettygoodsoftware.net/DIY/IMG_0848.png)
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Pictures!
This powder monkey has no clue how to insert pics. Do I need to host them somewhere then use the img tag with html addy inside?
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Someday, I'd like to setup your Elekit amp with my source and compare against the other tube amps I have. Seems like a nice amp from what I heard, though.
Thanks! I've really been enjoying that Elekeit TU-8200DX and as you could probably tell, I'm all about the versatility and tweak-ability that this amplifier provides. To me it has very few weaknesses, all awhile having many functions/abilities that others, even those well above its price range, do not. It can be hard to quickly get a good sense of this amplifier, as a simple tube swap will often yield very different results; the combo I had playing most of the day I prefer with acoustic or live music, but it's not always the best for everything else, especially rock.
I'd be very interested in your opinions, so you'll have to do some comparisons at the next meet, but until then let me know if you have any questions about the kit. There are a few reviews online and many positive experiences, but it's both a less known company and amplifier than many of these toys.
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is that a super 7 in the second pic?
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It is. That was my modded S7 further modded by Mr. R.
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I love that S7 he brought. Will talk more about it later.
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Special wiring technique to minimize emi and crosstalk
(http://s29.postimg.org/78l9cf47r/012.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
free upload image (http://postimage.org/)
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They are all shielded. It's fine.
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^ What Anax said. I spent a good chunk of time rolling caps & tubes, but ended up with the caps & tubes (for my HD800) that Mike had as his reference. Simply couldn't find a tube or cap combo that was better. Further upgrades include:
* Soft-annealed, 4-9's silver interconnect wire with a cotton dielectric use in output interconnect wiring.
* A Belleson super regulator on the driver tube.
* A Cosmos carbon wiper potentiometer.
It's one hell of an amp. When my studio lands, Uber7 will probably go to the office; can see myself parting with it.
Anax - some day I'll drag it out to a CA meet, I'd really like your impressions, being familiar with it without my mods.
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^ What Anax said. I spent a good chunk of time rolling caps & tubes, but ended up with the caps & tubes (for my HD800) that Mike had as his reference. Simply couldn't find a tube or cap combo that was better. Further upgrades include:
* Soft-annealed, 4-9's silver interconnect wire with a cotton dielectric use in output interconnect wiring.
* A Belleson super regulator on the driver tube.
* A Cosmos carbon wiper potentiometer.
It's one hell of an amp. When my studio lands, Uber7 will probably go to the office; can see myself parting with it.
Anax - some day I'll drag it out to a CA meet, I'd really like you impressions, being familiar with it without my mods.
interesting. If anyone can post some impressions that would be great.
@Mr. R looking foward to a comparison with the studio when you get it.
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Yggy feeding the Black Widow with Senn 800s was a real treat, Near perfect dac with fantastic space and neutral open sound. Also heard the HE1000 with the same setup. Certaninly a different presentation with a bit less openness and perhaps a bit more warm. Both cans were nicely punchy on bass and drums when listening to Morph the Cat. I would certainly not call the setup with the HE1000s and Kevin's silver cable bright by any means. Just a wisp of something up top to keep it airy.
On another note, I did get to compare the Yggy and Meitner dac that Kevin brought. Both were very nice with a bit of different and to my ears a touch more analytical presentation on the Meitner. The difference on one part of music was very apparent with a piece that was on several rigs, Dead Can Dance's Into the Labryrinth CD on the Ubiquitous Mr. Lovegrove track at about 12 seconds in there is a percussive tat tat tat tat........tat tat tat tat repeating and becoming even easier to hear as he begins to sing.
My question to those who have this cd is: can you describe what it sounds like on your dac and cans. I am curious as to what the consensus is. I am purposely not trying to lead, but more than a few dacs presented this part of the track differently.
I got to hear the Super 7 again and would be hard pressed to pick a winner between it and the Black Widow. Maybe more super 7 for the Senn 800s and maybe the spider for many other cans.
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Here be my impressions:
HE1000: Didn't try these from every possible DAC and amp, but these were somewhat disappointing for me. Nice impact and a nice fullness to the sound, but marred by a rough treble characteristic. Looking at various measurements, I think it's that 7KHz spot couple with some other ragged elements in the upper regions. I heard two pairs of these. One had more kick to it, less fullness and warmth, and a rougher top end. The other had less kick (but quite close) but a greater sense of general warmth. This one was also a bit smoother up top, but still rough. The HD600/650 sound more tonally balanced, more refined, and clearer to me. Unfortunately, I did not have toilet paper to try on the HE1K (well, too lazy to grab some, that is). Comfort and fit were OK. I think the looks and design are lame and it the build quality and finish did not match the price point. Vastly overpriced.
Lyr 2 + my modded PM-2: Holy fat bass, Batman! I let jexby try the PM-2 out, and he started with them on the Lyr 2. He told me they were the bassiest headphones he had heard at the meet yet. I told him that, yeah, I tuned them to be a bit bassy like the HD650 or Slants. I wanted to check out the Lyr 2 myself, so I just used the PM-2 that was already plugged in. Jexby had already left the room by that point, but, wow, such bass. I grabbed him and told him to try them from another amp (Ember and Black Widow). He verified my thoughts that, for whatever reason, the Lyr 2 brought out a ton of bass on my modded PM-2. Sounded much tighter from other amps. Funny, the Lyr 2 didn't do that on the HE-560. Interesting. Anyway, I actually didn't do much critical listening on the Lyr 2, but it sounded good and had a somewhat warm character to it.
SS Tubes: Honestly, less difference than I expected compared to actual tubes. Slightly better clarity and separation, maybe cleaner, maybe more detailed. Actual tubes still had a better sense of three dimensions and air, perhaps a bit warmer tone too. SS Tubes get surprisingly warm to the touch! Consider this a good thing that these did not have the typical SS sound. Would love to experiment with these more.
Third HE-560 I've tested: Still painful. This was maybe the least offensive sounding pair I've heard. All I hear is decent low-end impact, thin mids, and stab-my-ear treble. Yet, I've read reports of non-bright pairs floating around. I think they try to avoid me, those damn, tricksy headphones.
Modi 2 Uber: This was hooked up to the Lyr 2. Not sure what was the Lyr 2 and what was the Modi, but I didn't hear any of that usual flat, dry, fake D/S sound. Plenty of fullness and body, clear, detailed. Worth recommending for those wanting something cheap.
Modded Black Diamond: I believe this is the same BD I heard on loaner a while back. MisterRogers made some tweaks, with the primary tweak being some nicer voltage regulators. He'd have to expand on that. Either way, noticeably different sounding than what I heard. When I heard it, it was somewhat polite sounding. This one kicked up the low-end power and upper-end a notch. Blacker background, less grey nature. Clearer sounding. OTOH, it also brought out a somewhat overly textured, somewhat etched sound somewhere in the upper-mids or lower-treble. I'm guessing this was there before but covered up by the polite nature, where as the mods brought this less pleasing aspect along with the nice improvements. Seems headphone and song dependent. I heard the same quality in the Metrum Aurix, which makes me wonder how much of it is due to the non-feedback, step-up transformer for gain design. Not sure. Regardless, this is just such a cool, unique amp that I hope MisterRogers keeps it around and continues to tweak it.
Modded Super 7 (aka Uber 7): Man, I love this amp. I heard it at the earlier Denver meet with a stock HD800. Blew me away. Gave the HD800 a sense of power and fullness I was NOT expecting. Still a bit too bright and somewhat etched for my tastes, but was still highly impressed. So, for this meet, I wanted to see how it handled something else. I was too dumb to grab my HD650 (it was probably floating around on someone else's setup at the time), so I tried it with my PM-2. Damn, still sounded great! PM-2 isn't the best with some tube amps, as it softens them up a bit. This S7 did that ever so slightly, but not as much as from, say, the Valhalla 2. Gave them a nice sense of power and a surprising amount of air. This amp has a powerful, somewhat warm, smooth, detailed, clear, airy sound to it. I was a fool not to hook it up to my HD650, but I'd also probably be on the hunt for one now if I had tried. I told MisterRogers to tell me if he ever wanted to sell it, and jexby was quick to say he already called dibs on it. So, I'm not alone in wanting it!
Black Widow: Nice sounding SS amp! Not as 3D, spacious, or airy as the Super 7...actually not particularly close, IMO, but not a slouch either. This thing excels when it comes to tone, plenty of low-end power, detail, and a smooth but not soft nature. Modded PM-2 sounded excellent from this. Nicely controlled, detailed, lively, and not overly smooth, soft, or dull. I think nearly everyone had very positive remarks about this amp. Awesome deal for the price. It's on my list for down the road.
Yggy: While I only got to spend a very brief amount of time with this DAC, it didn't take long to tell that this is a very nice DAC. I'd need a very quiet environment and lots of A-B time to check out this amazing sense of detail and resolving ability that everyone talks about, or anything regarding soundstage, but nothing appeared to be missing at all at first glance. I mostly focused on other attributes while listening. Nice, neutral tone. Plenty of impact down low. Great extension on both ends. Not harsh, etched, sibilant, or artificial sounding at all. Very pleasing to listen to. Sounded very clear and grain free. Focused. Coming from the Theta Gen Va, I felt right at home listening to this.
reDACted: Well...this one was actually a letdown for me. First, we ran into a lot of issues hooking this up to the Macbooks and Minis via USB. The first time I plugged it in, something was clearly wrong. Imagine feeding your music through some 8-bit video game console, like the NES, and this console has somehow taken LSD and is dead set out combining some sort of robotic, high-pitched, digital, metallic emphasis with every sound it spits out. After a few times of unplugging it and plugging it back in, restarting the software, re-applying software settings, and so on, it finally came to life as expected! I know I said I was letdown earlier, and that was based on how it sounded when it worked (seemingly) properly.(Adding clarification that "seemingly" working properly doesn't mean it was at 100%, so read with this in mind.) Tone seemed good, though on the warm side of things. Noticeably warmer than the Yggy and, hell, maybe even warmer sounding than my Model S, IMO. Maybe the warmest DAC I heard there. That's fine and all, since I'm OK with warmth, but it was surprising. Sense of detail seemed to be there, and it wasn't harsh. But what bothered me was something I had a hard time placing my finger on. It's like this DAC sounded unrefined (Edit: better way to describe it was overly wooly...see later posts). Not harsh or etched, but some sort of underlying rough character that permeated over everything. Going back to the Model S and Yggy was a noticeable breath of fresh air for me. I think I even preffered the Modi 2 Uber. THAT SAID...this is NOT a finalized product, and given we were having technical issues with it throughout the day (see above, that's what I mean), I am NOT judging the device based on this. Sharing my honest impressions, but I want to come back to this closer to or after its production phase and with machines I know aren't going to get all weird with it. I have no doubts they'll pull this one off and make it an incredible deal with a great sound.
EMM Labs Meitner DAC: I forget the model name of this. I was told this was rather expensive. I did not particularly care for it. I guess it upsamples everything to DSD. Sounded artificial and somewhat rough. Granted, this was with the HE1K, but switching to the Model S showed some of the rough, artificial quality was coming from the DAC itself. However, the Mjolnir paired with it sounded nice and powerful.
Elekit TU-8200 + UltraFI DAC-41: I heard this at the Denver meet as well with the HD650s, and I thought it sounded pleasing. Not sure where it falls on the spectrum of tube amps, but it sounded full and clear to me. Granted, Effusion brought two briefcases full of tubes to roll on it...he had three briefcases at the last meet, I think. Insane. Anyway, not as much air or spaciousness as the Super 7, but still has some of that quality tubes seem to offer. I didn't hear anything that sounded overly syrupy to me, but it was not as neutral or fast as the Valhalla 2. OTOH, the Val2 isn't always the smoothest or, rather, most euphonic amp to listen to. I think this amp might strike a nice balance, and, again, could be very tube dependent. Seems like a cool amp kit to build, and it looks nice as well. Decently priced. I'm actually thinking the UltraFI DAC-41 was holding it back a bit. I'm about 95% sure it uses the TDA1543 chip. And while it sounded like a good implementation of it and was pleasing to listen to with the amp, I would have LOVED to hear the amp with my Model S. 1543 in general is a bit intimate sounding, not particularly spacious or airy, and isn't the most detailed or refined. Great tone and fun to listen to, but there's only so far you can that that 1543 chip. Still, a really enjoyable setup to listen to with my HD650s. Hoping I can spend more time with this amp on different sources and do some back-to-back amp comparisons, because it caught my interest.
Pulse XFi Infinity (I think?): Pretty cool all-in-one device. I only tried it like that. Did not try it as just a DAC, so keep that in mind with my impressions. As an all-in-one unit, I thought it sounded pretty darn good! Not the most amazing thing I've heard (i.e. didn't touch the TOTL DACs + Super 7 or Black Widow), but pleasing. Didn't hear the usual Sabre glare or etch. The various digital filter modes had a noticeable change on the sound. TCM sounded the most coherent and focused but had a more intimate sound with a smaller stage. TCM also had the best tone of the bunch but sacrificed some clarity, speed, texture, and pitch in the lower regions. The other modes were more neutral sounding and more resolving but sounded somewhat diffused. Bass improved but became a tad polite and was still not particularly focused or clear. Treble still didn't sound harsh or etched. I liked the options and minimalist look of the device. As an all-in-one unit, I'd pay maybe $800-1000 for it. I was told it will cost way more than that and was disappointed. But, hey, maybe it excels as a standalone DAC. I didn't put it in the DAC rotation due to limited time, but perhaps that would change my mind.
Toilet Paper: WTH, why does this office have such nice toilet paper? Does someone live there? I will never look at office toilet paper the same way.
Anyway, best part, as always, is chilling and chatting with everyone. I had a great time! We need to have more of these tight-knit, pyrate meets. Way better than the bigger meets, even if there is less gear to try. Thanks to jexby for organizing it! Just wish we had more time. I actually felt rushed listening to a lot of things. So many nice pieces of gear, like the Yggy, that I could probably spend hours on alone.
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Here be my impressions:
Third HE-560 I've tested: Still painful. This was maybe the least offensive sounding pair I've heard. All I hear is decent low-end impact, thin mids, and stab-my-ear treble. Yet, I've read reports of non-bright pairs floating around. I think they try to avoid me, those damn, tricksy headphones.
was the he 560 stock or modded?
Here be my impressions:
reDACted: Well...this one was actually a letdown for me. First, we ran into a lot of issues hooking this up to the Macbooks and Minis via USB. The first time I plugged it in, something was clearly wrong. Imagine feeding your music through some 8-bit video game console, like the NES, and this console has somehow taken LSD and is dead set out combining some sort of robotic, high-pitched, digital, metallic emphasis with every sound it spits out. After a few times of unplugging it and plugging it back in, restarting the software, re-applying software settings, and so on, it finally came to life as expected! I know I said I was letdown earlier, and that was based on how it sounded when it worked (seemingly) properly. Tone seemed good, though on the warm side of things. Noticeably warmer than the Yggy and, hell, even warmer sounding than my Model S, IMO. Maybe the warmest DAC I heard there. That's fine and all, since I'm OK with warmth, but it was surprising. Sense of detail seemed to be there, and it wasn't harsh. But what bothered me was something I had a hard time placing my finger on. It's like this DAC sounded very unrefined. Not harsh or etched, but some sort of underlying rough character that permeated over everything. Going back to the Model S and Yggy was a humongous breath of fresh air for me. I think I even preffered the Modi 2 Uber. THAT SAID...this is NOT a finalized unit, and given we were having technical issues with it throughout the day (see above, that's what I mean), I am NOT judging the device based on this. Sharing my honest impressions, but I want to come back to this closer to or after its production phase.
With the [redacted] did you let it warm up or did you just plug it in and listen? I remember at Changfest the [redacted^2] needed to be warmed up for a couple of hours. Also what amp were you using?
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HE560 had a custom, more open back but otherwise was stock AFAIK.
reDACted had been on for a couple hours, and I was using the Super 7 IIRC. Clearly, given the technical issues we had with it, something wasn't playing nicely somewhere. Even when it sounded like it was working right, it might not have been 100%. I dunno, personally, I'm not too worried about it. Not a production device, simple as that. And should clarify I thought the sound it produced when it clearly wasn't working right was more comical than anything. The other guys made comments about their Macs acting up with other products and doing similarly strange things. Just reporting what all went down in Boulder with as much honesty as I can!
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I really enjoyed these Boulder area pyrates (again), indeed more mini meets with this crew WILL happen for sure!
you guys rocked.
headbang
bixby is right, our cabling prowess kicked ass.
Hans, great write up as I expected from you. believe your young ears may have bested many/most of ours.
Mister R, thanks for the Uber 7 time. still crave more. (yes, dibs.)
a long Sunday for me in the mountains, so no time for a write up yet.
just a group photo, all to scale.
from Left to Right:
J[redacted], J[redacted], K[redacted], K[redacted], M[redacted], T[redacted]
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Looks like a police line up. Or some kind of weird porn ring. :)p13
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I resemble that remark :)p7
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ok more impressions
Hans modded Senn 650. Listening to tylers modded 650 through my sytem (which is on the warmer side of neutral, contrary to belief that all sabre chips will burn your ear off) was a revelation. Not only was it nicely balanced, it had no veil that one commonly associates with the 650. Even when listening to Effussions nicely open sounding modded and recabled 650 on his elekit which is pretty transparent was no match for the tyler modded 650 to my ears. Even James concluded that the mod was going to be happenin to his 650s soon.
On the subject of prototype SS tubes vs good hand picked tubes in the Lyr 2. My preference went to the tubes, yes the glass ones. They seemed more open and transparent, yet if you never heard the glass bottles next to the ss tube prototypes, you would not be unhappy with the ss types. To my ears the ss protos were a bit more warm, a little less open in the mids. About what one would expect with tube signatures if you have had the opportunity to roll a few dozen or so.
Both ss and glass with the Lyr had me wondering about my Lake People G019s. Jexby had a good tip, though, with use with my Mad Dogs, set it to normal pre-gain. I set the pre-gain on the G109S to low to utilize more of the volume control and I think it sounded a bit lighter and airier (needed with the Dogs). But as Jexby pointed out, the system may benefit from a little more headroom, especially when playing properly done (old school non loudness war) tracks.
Moe later
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Ok - stream of consciousness impressions:
BW. Yup. Solid. Lively. Dynamic. great tonality. Fun. This amp, with a good DAC (we fed it with Yggy and ReDACted), along with good cans can be 'end game' for many. I A/B's between my U7 & BW; U7 excelled in technicalities, but BW was in no way a letdown. Great amp, and one hell of a bargain for the price.
ReDACted. I ran it for a good 4-5 days before the meet. It was powered down for about 1 1/2 hours in route. Let's see - you can tell it's lineage - correct time domain / imaging. It has a slightly warmer, 'woolier' presentation, which I definitely find less appealing. I like my DAC's to present the best, most accurate image possible, and like some tube DAC's, ReDACted seemed to impart a bit too much for me. It's a prototype, so it'll definitely be interesting to see how this evolves.
More to follow.
Guys, please share any impressions you have of my dual mono AK4495S DAC.
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That's right, wooly was a really good way to put it with the reDACted. I liked the warm tone but could go without the wooliness. But, again, not a production unit, wasn't always playing nicely with the Macs...something could have been not quite right somewhere (hell, maybe it was that mess of wires), but given the track record of its sibling and other products from said company, I have no doubt the production unit will be quite good.
Your AK4495S DAC, I only listened very briefly with bixby's G019S amp and his Mad Dog, and with a track I wasn't familiar with. I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary in terms of tone, detail retrieval, air, soundstage, placement, etc. Sounded pretty balanced overall, had good room cues and space, pulled out tiny little details like chairs moving and people talking. Certainly was a positive, brief look with his setup. And I know I already told you that I love the case! Maybe sometime we could arrange a session with 2-3 people and really dig deep into DAC comparisons. I'd need to spend some lengthier, more dedicated time with it.
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Thanks mate. Yea, we really almost had TOO much awesome stuff to check out; it was hard to spend much time with everything. Great problem to have :-)
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Ah, the 4495S dual dac of Mr. Rogers. Excellent sounding dac both through my system and his. Very good upper end, exposing a weakness in my X-sabre. No, not that the sabre is too bright but rather too soft. Two things account for that I think. One is the usb cable which is powerless and the other a very good power cord. The MR (Mr. Rogers) dac had very good attack and presentation of the high notes with no overemphasis. The only place where preference may come in for me with the Matrix is on the increased density of lower mids or upper bass. The MR dac is a very solid dac that could easily kill oft recommended dacs under $1k like the Benchmark DAC1, Micromega My dac, Parasound Zdac, Musical Fidelity M1, Eastern Electric, and others. In my opinion it can compete quite nicely with dacs well over $1k, but I have to hear more before I can say which ones. Maybe another mini meet!
Redacted- Easy to hear its resemblance and difference as compared to the Yggy. For me the presentation was a bit more congealed, versus spacious and perhaps a bit more congested or wooly in the bass and lower mids. In comparison it is a bit heavier sounding compared to the MR dac above. I would like to compare more with the Matrix but think the highs just outclass the Matrix. Still a fine sounding dac and even though the audition was brief, I do want to hear more from this dac.
Edited for typos and grammar, need more coffee.
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Thanks mate. Yea, we really almost had TOO much awesome stuff to check out; it was hard to spend much time with everything. Great problem to have :-)
^This.
1. you guys can shoot me now, but I didn't even move the MisterR dual mono AK DAC to a different amp to get a DAC-only comparison.
what I heard with this DAC and the Black Diamond (modded prototype) was real nice into my stock HD800, considering source material wasn't familiar to me. the detail retrieval and balance across the spectrum seemed solid, nothing out of place or poorly delivered. would have to re listen for attack on bass which didn't stand out at the time (could be HD800 issue), but it truly DID place sounds (background drum tempos) very nicely (wide) in the soundstage.
again tho, couldn't tell what piece of gear was (most) responsible for the good sound.
2. nor did I move source input between Yggy and ReDACted more than once. ug.
did detect some of the warmth as ya'll mentioned, but not at the demise of losing detail or accuracy. sound stage not at wide open as Yggy.
guess I can't detect wooly mammoths in DACs, so will leave that to others.
my hope for ReDACted is affordable on desk at work with Lyr2.
if final product is this warm, pairing with Lyr2 tubes could cloud things, or the price may be higher than I hoped.
no, it's not a Yggy killer. :)
3. glad we talked bixby into jacking the gain on his Lake People! :)p13
small writes ups coming for:
Pulse X Infinity Chassis 2.0
GOV2+Infinity
Uber7
Elekit amp
SS tubes
Audial DAC
HE1K
Ember
photos
Ideas to explore for next meet:
a) everyone brings their own laptop with their source material, or USB drives for content loading.
without Kevin's macminis + MisterR macbook in the big-room-of-slobber-knocking-rigs listening sessions would have been doomed.
seems we spent too much time Fing around with source issues/material and that took away from deeper DAC+Amp time.
b) smaller collection of stuff, same amount of time.
3or4 DACs + 3or4 Amps done.
:)p6
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Another meet around next year same time? I will be there, but I have specific dates. Family reunion on my wife's side.
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That's be great Marv!
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I'd go!
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Another meet around next year same time? I will be there, but I have specific dates. Family reunion on my wife's side.
sure Marv, keep us updated as your dates line up for visiting Boulder next year.
and pack your suitcases with plenty of EC amps! har har
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was the he 560 stock or modded?
am glad my ears can't pick up the "faults" that Hans' pick out! p;)
my HE-560 have open grills and Focus A pads installed.
was connected via YFS Super30 litz (pure copper) cable, which was a revelation when installed months ago.
this pure copper, many-strand cable easily out performed a previous custom cable from BTG audio that was silver-coated-copper and less strands per channel.
the night of Super30 cable attachment, immediate height and depth to soundstage, better layering, and (finally) some present bass all jumped out of these HE-560s.
it was like Lyr2 got new tubes, or installed a new DAC.
it was my first jaw dropping cable-revalation moment.
:-DD
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Thank you all for posting! Seems like an AWESOME meet :). Boulder crew bringing it!!!
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Wow, again just a great meet all around; I'm still finding it hard to even try to digest it all and it's been 3 full days!
First, below are a few of my impressions on the various headphones that I spent some time with. I've been in the market for an additional set of cans, so I actually ended up trying quite a few different phones out on my system, DAC-41 and Elekit, in addition to everyone else's setups, with a least one pair on both. If I had to rank them with amount of time and experience I was able to have, overall I enjoyed the modded HD650s the best, which is no real surprise as I'm a sucker for that headphone and it really does sound that much better. Next would be the modded PM-2s, then the HE-1000s, the HE560s, and finally the HD800s, but not merely because I don't like the sound of them, I just can't seem to get over the design. On to the impressions...
Modded HD650:
I thought these sounded just fantastic and better than my un-modded pair in almost every way. I even swapped out cables a few times, using reference tracks off my system, and they just blew my pair out of the water. The mod really does lift the veil, but leaves everything else that makes the HD650s great and scalable intact. I find the sound to be both smoother and more open. The more neutral sound sig also seemed to aid in providing a bit more resolution in not only the highs, but also somewhat in the low frequencies as well. I'm convinced now, after hearing them once before, that I can live with this mod and will be attempting it in the very near future. Very nice!
Modded PM-2s:
I thought these sounded very nice as well, sharing quite a few characteristics with the modified HD650s. Nice open and detailed sound, that was both smooth and crisp when you wanted it to be. Plus they were really comfortable. The ear cups fit my ears perfectly, but I don't necessarily have larger ears, so someone with a larger set might be a more cramped. Otherwise, they were very light and fit my head just right. My only dislike was that the sound-stage and imaging seemed a little off to me, or at least not were I would have preferred it. To try to describe the difference, on my system and also the Ember and Valhalla2, it was almost like being in a opera house and seating in the balcony, but not far away, about center row from the stage. Now the balcony seemed to be about a half floor above the top of the speakers, so maybe third level. Not really horrible or anything like that at all, but just very interesting.
HE-1000s:
I mostly tried the pair with the silver cable and to me, compared to a pair of HD800s with a copper cable as well as my HD650s, the HE-1000s did not sound bright to me at all. Actually close to neutral, but definitely on the warmer side. I found them to be very smooth, while still detailed and open. They sounded very nice. The only thing I found odd was that I was getting a bit of a wispy sound on the high end with certain recordings. Almost like an airy sibilance on certain voices/instruments. Sort of like the some of the older designed single drivers with a whizzer cone, like older Lowthars playing a peaky/airy track. Overall very nice, but only in third place to me based on the wisp, slightly peaky highs, and the fact that they are expensive.
HE-560s:
I liked the tone on these and they sounded nice and open on the Lyr2, both SS and tubes, but I enjoyed the tubes a bit better. Out of my DAC/amp they sounded nice and pretty neutral, with a great mid-range, however I found the high-end to be a bit sibilant on a few tracks that are normally not so. This prompted me to try a certain track I use exclusively for sibilance, and it was very present and even a bit harsh. It may have been a part of my chain that needed to be tamed down a bit for them, so I'll need to get a better gauge of these in the future to get a better idea. In hindsight, I should have quickly turned the peak prevention control in Foobar on to see if it smoothed it out (this use to do the trick with one of my older DACs and a particular opamp).
HD800s:
They do really sound very nice. I've always found them to be a bit brighter than usual for my tastes, but with copper cables and warmer sources/amps, I found them to be very neutral and detailed, while still having some of that Sennheiser sound, with nice and smooth mid-range. If I could just get over my issues with the design on these, they would be my second pair right now. To me they just fit my head strange, in addition to always confusing me before I put them on. Plus, I find the pads to be uncomfortable and they don't cup my head in a way that I feel like a seal has truly been made. Makes me sense that I'm loosing low-end impact due to the design of the cups, plus that the pads are pretty thin. Overall, if they just were more comfortable, with better pads, and created a better seal, they would have been 2nd on this list after the modified HD650s.
All in all, I thought all were very nice and I feel I could live with any of them for a very long time. I'm still holding out to October though, in hopes to try the Ethers, before trying to finally decided on a second pair... otherwise might be down to an Audeze offering, or waiting for something else, since I also find those uncomfortable for long periods of time.
I'll try to get some impressions of a few of the amps/DACs in a few days as well. Until then... :)p8
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Thanks, pirates. Great read, this thread.
BW. Yup. Solid. Lively. Dynamic. great tonality. Fun. This amp, with a good DAC (we fed it with Yggy and ReDACted), along with good cans can be 'end game' for many. I A/B's between my U7 & BW; U7 excelled in technicalities, but BW was in no way a letdown. Great amp, and one hell of a bargain for the price.
Thanks, good data point for me.
Surely the BW wins in bass, no?
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IMO No. BW has good extension and impact in bass, but U7 with HE1K will knock your molars out :-)
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More from the stream:
Lyr 2, Ediswan tubes. At least I think so - I'm an old man so correct me if I'm wrong. Lyr was my second Schiit amp, I started with an Asgard. Always enjoyed the Lyr, but eventually moved on to amps with more detail retrieval. Actually, it was Marv's BA that ruined me; he was kind enough to loan it to Luis and I for a few days. Ruined me; Lyr wasn't going to cut it anymore. This was my first hearing of Lyr 2, and overall a noticeable improvement in plankton retrieval. Still not playing in the 'EC' league, but noticeable. I'm a fan of the Ediswan tubes, and enjoyed the full, slightly warm, extended sound of this Lyr 2.
Lyr 2, SS tubes. I echo my mates that noted the difference (vs. glass tubes) being, well, not as great as expected. Good tone, a bit less warm, obviously less air / bloom, but a reasonably accurate presentation. Detail retrieval was similar to the glass tubed Lyr 2, changes were in presentation. I liked them. Overall I still prefer glass tubes, but I think these will be of interest to many.
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+1 on the SS tubes of Lyr2.
exactly my hearing impressions. depending on the price of these, would certainly be a good backup/emergency pair of tubes.
or perhaps a good pairing for those with specific headphone/presentation preferences.
one less write up I need to do now.
thanks Mister R
:money:
!
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U7 with HE1K will knock your molars out
Used S7 was among first amps that was recommended to me here and i bought a HDVA600 facepalm
I guess idiots need to learn from their own mistakes while smart guys learn from other's.
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Modded HD650:
I thought these sounded just fantastic and better than my un-modded pair in almost every way. I even swapped out cables a few times, using reference tracks off my system, and they just blew my pair out of the water. The mod really does lift the veil, but leaves everything else that makes the HD650s great and scalable intact. I find the sound to be both smoother and more open. The more neutral sound sig also seemed to aid in providing a bit more resolution in not only the highs, but also somewhat in the low frequencies as well. I'm convinced now, after hearing them once before, that I can live with this mod and will be attempting it in the very near future. Very nice!
Modded PM-2s:
I thought these sounded very nice as well, sharing quite a few characteristics with the modified HD650s. Nice open and detailed sound, that was both smooth and crisp when you wanted it to be. Plus they were really comfortable. The ear cups fit my ears perfectly, but I don't necessarily have larger ears, so someone with a larger set might be a more cramped. Otherwise, they were very light and fit my head just right. My only dislike was that the sound-stage and imaging seemed a little off to me, or at least not were I would have preferred it. To try to describe the difference, on my system and also the Ember and Valhalla2, it was almost like being in a opera house and seating in the balcony, but not far away, about center row from the stage. Now the balcony seemed to be about a half floor above the top of the speakers, so maybe third level. Not really horrible or anything like that at all, but just very interesting.
Nice write up! Just a couple comments...
The HD650 mods were essentially what Marv mentioned here: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2415.0.html (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2415.0.html)
The only difference is that I have a layer of this rug liner sandwiched between the silver mesh surrounding the driver and the front foam in front of the driver: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006EK4I80?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006EK4I80?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00)
I cut out the rug liner to be the exact shape of the silver mesh AND cut a hole where I cut a hole in that front foam. That is, right where you see the exposed part of the driver. The foam, with hole cut out, sits on top of that as usual. The rug liner makes a subtle difference but is not required.
PM-2s, glad to hear you liked them! They are always going to have a not-perfect stage and imaging. Just how they are, IMO. The stock PM-1 w/ velour pads, at least, sounds like you are listening in some sort of weird, thin, claustrophobic hallway. :) I did what I could with my PM-2 mods to fix this as best as possible without going crazy. ALSO, not sure if you heard them from a solid state amp, but they do pair best with SS. Gives them a better sense of focus, stage, and imaging. Less soft and diffuse.
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hanz the front rug liner is for the tremble?
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Yeah, mostly. Slightly smoother sound.
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Thanks! I'm really glad I liked the modded HD650s too... gives me a great and different option in the short-run while awaiting a new second pair. I could really see myself being content for awhile with this mod.
Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to try the PM2s out with any solid state gear, just on your Ember/Valhalla2 and my system. I still thought they sounded very nice and appeared to be quite similar to the 650s in several regards. I agree about the funny sound-stage/imaging, not too bad, but any worse and I could see it being a little weird. I noticed it almost right away, then also heard it on the Vallhala2, sounded much better though, and then finally on my system, where it was noticeable.
Like just about everything at the meet, it would be awesome to try out the PM2s again as well as the other gear, out of the same gear; sometimes I feel like I can get a little overloaded with the idiosyncrasies, or at least trying to "intensely" listen, it all can start to fatigue me quicker. I also believe that second impressions can show you more than you expect sometimes. Usually at the end of RMAF, on Saturday around 6 pm, I start to get a bit winded. There is so much great stuff to hear!
Thanks for the links as well. I was going to do a search, but wanted to make sure I didn't end up looking at the wrong thread and starting a different mod. It looks fairly easy and if I'm able to do it and at the same time allow it to be reversible, I'm 100% in! I haven't had a chance to really check out the thread though, but I'll let you know how it goes. I'm thinking about trying the rug liner mod as well, but I'm thinking of doing the rest of the mod first, waiting for a bit to get a good gauge, and then trying it.
This meet really invigorated me for October and with all the heat as of late, I find myself now looking toward Fall. :)p2
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this is one of more upcoming Boulder CCCP meet impressions.
Pulse X Infinity Chassis 2.0 in da house!
This might be the first time Chassis 2.0 has been seen outside of LH Labs offices!?
was happy to have the unit (femtos) warmed up for days before meet listening.
firmware v1.4 according to the menus.
Audio:
as Hans has mentioned, tested as a “all in one unit” not as DAC feeding other amps.
same great Larry Ho taming of the newest generation sabre chips to deliver super balanced, clear sound.
treble detail, check. midrange in balance, check.
bass is there even in HD800. nice wide and tall soundstage.
overly analytical? nah. unless you want to call balanced HD800 overly analytical.
digital hash? not to my ears. maybe to other sensitive listeners only?
not the air, spaciness or maybe depth of field delivered from a tube amp but why belabor that point?
hard for me to tell difference in the filters, highly source/recording dependent to my aging ears. Hans ears can pick out the filters better.
Haven’t heard any raves of the FTM (femto time) filter, but hell- if it’s got Femto clocks I’m leaving FTM on all the time. just in case.
Physical:
Chassis 2.0 is a certainly a step up from v1.0, larger infinity knob is easier to manage with menus. nice feel of 0.5db volume increments.
don't mind the chassis size increase (to v1.0) especially since it's an all in one unit, but can see where some people with chassis v2.0 of both Pulse and LPS might start calling the stack "large".
Pyrates understood why top slides out- it reveals a slot for display updates via SD card, a slick feature. perhaps the acrylic top is going to scratch though?
do wish the (black) edges of the case could "wrap over" the top of the acrylic somehow just a bit.
the plastic cover (on the face) of the display could be a bit darker, but the new blue matrix display is spot on good.
Would be thrilled to keep Pulse Infinity on my work desk for certain, next time will test as DAC only feeding some TOTL amps.
Thumbs. up.
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Best pics of the 2.0 chassis so far. I backed the x infinty wnew chip and chassis but later perked a vi dac upgrade.. I'd be pretty happy now if I hadn't anyway
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Just an idea, but maybe the next time we meet, I could bring my in-ear mic headphone measurement kit. Would be very curious to see how headphones measure with different heads and ears.
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CCCP Main Room. table where we attempted to swap DACs and Amps during 2 person (limit) listening sessions in the room:
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Well a number of CCCP compared Lyr2s:
(left) with NOS Ediswan CV2492 tubes
vs
(right) with SS tubes.
before swapping RCA cables around, really expected monstrous differences when moving from real tubes to SS tubes.
however, the changes while apparent, were not a shocking moment like:
“OMG these SS tubes turn Lyr2 into Asgard2 or mini Mojolnir or mini Rag."
the SS tubes were:
slightly more closed in soundstage
less layering or depth
didn’t have the air or float of instrumentation as with real tubes
maybe not as much low bass delivery
detail retrieval good.
but heck, depending on price these SS tubes would be a fine match for a number of headphones or as a baseline pair when comparing “real tube” audible qualities.
ps. the modi2uber remains a great value proposition and superb choice for a cheap-2nd-office DAC.
:)p10
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i’ll say it up front:
since GeekOut was announced on kickstarter have been dying for LH Labs to make a battery powered unit for mobile use.
NOW it’s in my hands and never letting go!
p:3
GOV2+Inf hooked up to iPhone/iPad or macbook pro.
will use with IEMs 90% of time, but on High Gain it does power HD800 pretty well,
with iDevice volume control at about 75% of max.
low gain was good enough for Heir Audio 4.AiS
medium gain was needed for UM3X
high gain needed for balanced cable to HD800.
(can’t wait to hook GOV2+Inf to HE-400S next week!)
loved the GO100 for a long while with IEMs, but GOV2+Inf surpasses in most every way:
more musical presentation
midrange and vocals seem more alluring but can’t exactly figure out why.
same great detail but not the digital tin.
bass seems improved in terms of punch and low resonance.
dead black background even on high gain.
a bit deeper soundstage. more of those “looking over your shoulder, did you hear that?” moments.
didn't do a lot of back-n-forth between non-balanced and balanced, but will continue using balanced IEM cables.
during occasional home listening with HD800, will use balanced adapter cable to 3.5mm TRRS to eek out every mW of power from GOV2+Infinity possible.
Filters: again hard for my ears (or IEMs, HD800) to tell consistently what is best.
the SSM (streaming) mode should be interesting since many will stream audio via phone/computer onto this truly portable unit.
Physical:
slim dimensions on V2+Inf kicks ass. perfect for iPhone mating.
i suspect LH Labs had a hard time with some board design goals in keeping to this form factor,
likely the reason there is a second micro usb near the top that is used for charging only.
3D printed case:
the unit I have is a prototype and is NOT 100% finished, so review all photos with this fact in mind.
the case is where some consumers will say “it’s good” and other’s might complain that 3D resin isn’t enough for a product in this price range.
The Resin has an interesting, light tacky feel. which I don't mind. keeps it from slipping on desk tops or when against a slippery metal phone.
in some cases the resin absorbs the light and looks matte, in other areas is shiny and reflective.
this is due to the angle of light, not an inconsistent resin.
the case is only "half vented" where it needs it.
If GOV2+Inf was metal or metallic it would feel and look like a million bucks IMO.
I just love the metal design and heat the GO100 gives off, but for a larger unit with a battery-
no clue how a metal case would help or hurt GOV2+Inf heat dissipation, cost or manufacturing.
Summary:
stunner.
GOV2+Infinity is my portable DAC/Amp for a looooong time, with no desire to pair it with a portable amp.
(although it would be interesting how folks find it as a DAC connected to a desktop Amp.)
:money:
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Thanks for the GOV2+ impressions. I really enjoyed my GOV1 so V2 sounds very promising.
Wow, that 3D printed chassis really looks like balls though. The Resonessence Herus has pretty amazing build quality for the same price. I hope the final revision is a little more refined! How do you think the nature of that resin will hold up to mobile use? As long as it's up to the task I could live with it...
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Wow, what a poo build for a $400 product, let's hope that's not what is shipping.
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Pretty sure that isn't final.
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Pretty sure that isn't final.
Well, the GOv2 looks the same. The 3D case is badly finished... Hard to read the text, rough finish.
But the unit sounds good. It's what matters most to me. This might throw off some people who owned the GOv1, wish is a much nicer looking dongle.
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Oh, and that one is a final unit? I'm not up to speed then. Agreed that sound matters most.
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Oh, and that one is a final unit? I'm not up to speed then. Agreed that sound matters most.
I could be mistaken but AFAIK the GOv2 final unit comes with crapy, horrible, shameful 3D case which I had to apply superglue given it would fall apart unassisted. But it sounds good.
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Dunno about the crappy finish but really like the sound coming out of it. I fixed my issue of the GoV2 sitting improperly in the MBA's USB port (thanks zdfx). Listened to the HD 600 and then the 800. The 800 really sounds good.
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Of course sound comes first, but come the fuck on, the new case is a huge downgrade on a more expensive product than the GO450. I don't think that's justified given its "incremental upgrade" status over the GOv1. Shady move IMO. Cue forum people selling better cases for the new Geek Outs in a short while.
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Of course sound comes first, but come the fuck on, the new case is a huge downgrade on a more expensive product than the GO450.
how many times do we need to repeat that the 3D resin case
Was. Not. A. Final. Version.
?
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No need to get your panties in a bunch, buddy, my last comments are based on the impressions of shipping GOv2 owners here and elsewhere. The case is a shoddy job, no way around it, even if they improve the printing quality or turn to injection molding, any plastic is a downgrade from aluminum.
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I have a "final" GOV2 and the case isn't much, if any, better than what's in those photos.
Edited to add: Photos of the production chassis I posted in the other thread. http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2370.msg76632.html#msg76632
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hans,
I'm glad to inform you that I've successfully completed the mod for the HD650! They almost sound like a different headphone now... crazy! I'm really digging the sound out of my pair with this mod; it's better in just about every way.
Thanks again for letting me audition your pair in my system at the meet, as I may have never attempted this modification if I hadn't. Recommended to anyone wanting to lift the "veil" and open up their pair even more. Very nice!
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Awesome! Glad it turned out well for you.