CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => IEM Measurements => Topic started by: Marvey on August 04, 2012, 07:18:45 AM

Title: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: Marvey on August 04, 2012, 07:18:45 AM
UERM
ER4S
E2C

Interesting differences with distortion characteristics between driver types. Need more data. To be continued. Will post this on HF. Hopefully some retard won't barf on it.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/621303/differences-in-characteristics-of-driver-types-in-iems-some-interesting-measurements (http://www.head-fi.org/t/621303/differences-in-characteristics-of-driver-types-in-iems-some-interesting-measurements)
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: Anaxilus. on August 04, 2012, 08:05:58 AM
I've been wondering something for sometime that seems to concern measurements like HD, impulse response and square waves.  People seem to judge them in absolute terms but to my ears, if I tried to imagine correlating my experience to visualized data, it seems to me that the overall behavior is just as significant.  In other words, even though something appears to measure better absolutely, it may exhibit sporadic or odd/unpredictable behavior even if it performs better below a noise floor or within a specified time domain.


I'll bring over my IEM collection next week to keep you busy.
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: MuppetFace on August 04, 2012, 09:51:13 AM
Very nice work, purrin.  :)p5
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: Marvey on August 04, 2012, 04:04:21 PM
3rd, 5th order (odd) harmonic distortion


This tells me the BA drivers produce waves a little bit more square. Maybe partially accounts for how they sound, a little bit faster with artificially higher slope rises.
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: frenchbat on August 05, 2012, 07:59:55 AM
What's the amplifier you've used for the test ? I don't see any obvious variation due to the cross-over in the UERM's graph, and I'm wondering what kind of influence there could be.
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: electropop on August 30, 2012, 09:19:31 PM
Just taught myself how to read the graph. Heh, so simple. Still can't fully correlate with other measurement data, such as square waves etc.

Very nice to see these though. Relatively high odd harmonic distortion. You mentioned that it in your experience results in atonality (pitches of notes less distinguished?). Do you feel that's the case with these IEM's?

Also, to teach a newb, how much of a difference is between 0,1% and 1% in dB?
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: Anaxilus. on August 30, 2012, 10:24:29 PM
What's the amplifier you've used for the test ?


You'd laugh if we told you.  :)p17
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of Various IEMs (comparing driver types)
Post by: Solderdude on April 08, 2013, 07:00:02 AM
Also, to teach a newb, how much of a difference is between 0,1% and 1% in dB?

20dB

10dB is considered to sound twice as loud, 20dB = 4 times as loud
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: Anaxilus. on April 08, 2013, 07:42:27 AM
Also, don't just think of distortion impacting music simply as a noise, crackle or his you just pick out and say 'Aha!'.  Distortion can also contribute to an odd sense of discontinuity over a respective range in FR.  The HE400 is a classic example of this.  Many people won't notice the distortion in the mids, but if you know what to listen for, some vocals might sound oddly warbled depending on the track and particular product variant.
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: kiteki on August 13, 2013, 12:58:18 AM

Is the effect of harmonic distortion which is impactful on sine-waves actually visible in square-waves?  It seems to me like square-waves are so convoluted / directly paralleled to FR - which varies wildly in transducers - that actually seeing sine-wave differences in square-wave response is impossible since the universal shape of the square-wave is determined explicitly by the FR, and thus the square-wave response in transducers is unrelated to sine-wave response, which is only 'visible' in harmonic distortion measurements such as these if anywhere, is that actually the case?
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: jerg on August 13, 2013, 02:57:31 AM
One thing I've been wondering about: is there a correlation between ringing in a particular frequency, vs measured THD behaviour in that same spot?
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: Marvey on August 13, 2013, 03:00:11 AM
No strong correlation I see. It does happen sometimes. For example, if there's ringing at 6k, we may see high 2nd harmonic distortion at 3k.
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: kiteki on August 13, 2013, 05:44:45 AM
How come Sonoves' result is the distortion is cleanly under 0.001% from 2.5kHz to ∞?!

http://sonove.angry.jp/ER4P/ER4P_distortion.gif

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: AstralStorm on August 20, 2013, 09:46:14 AM
D2 and D3 are way different, but the rest nearly match... Different levels?
Sonove measured at -20 dB but what is 0 dB?

The numbers from Rin are close, for ER-4B: http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/03/etymotic-research-er-4b.html

And those ER-4S numbers are much closer to Purrin's - it's ER-4S though and you will have to subtract some to get -dB, then convert to %.
http://sonove.angry.jp/AKG_K3003/dist_ER4S.gif
Title: Re: Harmonic Distortion Measurements of BA Drivers
Post by: AstralStorm on August 20, 2013, 10:00:23 AM
Is the effect of harmonic distortion which is impactful on sine-waves actually visible in square-waves?

Square waves would mostly show odd order distortion, if at all. But frequency response would change their shape way more, so they're not really that useful, except maybe for subbass to show  the slew rate equivalent of the device and bass sustain. You would see rounded for boosted slow bass, falling for poor sustain and ringy for artificially fast. Best would be of course level without ringing.

I'm talking e.g. 50 Hz square wave. Subbass behavior is not really visible on CSDs and dynamic behavior is not visible on the FR chart.