CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

Lobby => Soapbox => Topic started by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 04:35:13 AM

Title: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 04:35:13 AM

https://www.gofundme.com/3b4fwr8s (https://www.gofundme.com/3b4fwr8s)[

Changstar officially started on November 28, 2011. There were 225 pageviews through 25 sessions that day. Since then, there has been slow overall growth, except with a recent upshoot in the last several months. Several silent bannings of CS members on Head-Fi lately seemed to have fueled popularity of this site.

Last week, there were over 14,000 sessions with near 90,000 page reviews. Coupled with a low bounce rate of 33% and high average session duration of almost 9 minutes, that's a lot of activity, at least for us. What it comes down to is that keeping this site up and running smoothly with good content costs money.

As usual, I will lay out the points:

#1) I pay for running this site out of my own pocket. A lot of gear we have measured and talked about is paid for out of my pocket (and other members' pockets). The loaner programs that I've initiated have cost me money. Stupid things I've done for science such as taking apart HD800s cost me money. Measurement equipment costs money. Organizing meets has cost me money (lots of hidden costs such as hotel, travel, extra power strips, lost items, etc.) You may have heard of some people at HF saying I was making a killing off Light Harmonic with the Premium Sponsor banner at the top. Light Harmonic got that banner for securing a location for one of our meets. I received no money from them.

#2) I make squat from the ads. Those ads are from Google Adsense. I have done zero optimization on getting maximum revenue from them. That's why you see ads for Russian and Chinese brides. No one clicks on them. We take no money from sponsors. We don't have any real sponsors.

#3) We are running out of capacity. This site has already briefly gone down twice this year because it hit certain capacity limits. A higher capacity more cost effective hosting solution will be needed before the end of the year.

#4) The forum software generally sucks and has certain limitations. A phpBB or vBulletin solution would be superior.

#5) I feel that a fresh start will be necessary. TheGame, has volunteered as a serious moderator (he's quite good) for the new forum. I would like to compensate his duties a little bit. Moderating is difficult work, especially for people like us. I do not plan to migrate existing Changstar articles to the new site. After the new forum is up, I plan on running this site in read-only mode for a period of time until I can transfer its contents to an archive server running in my house. This will cost money in the immediate term and a little bit less money in the long term. The data migration will require expertise and this will also cost some money. I may take some good threads here and distill them into nice articles. Any recommendations on good threads to distill would be appreciated.

The bottom line is that I am tired. At some point, a hobby isn't so much fun when you realize that you keep putting your own money, blood, and sweat into it. And I don't want to take money from manufacturers either because doing so would most definitely ruin the fun.

What I am asking from you now is to help keep Changstar (and whatever the new site will be) alive and running.

Many of my responsibilities for moderating will be offloaded to TheGame. Since we don't suck manufacturers' schlongs, I would be unable to do things like pay him a salary or give him a free Hugo DAC. I would love to give him good quality used gear though. This costs money. And no, I don't believe in Communist crap that people should work for free for the benefit of all mankind. I believe that people should be compensated in whatever way I can best manage. Having TheGame as the primary moderator would make me less tired and make things more fun for me again.

I would also like you to pay for the new site for the next 15 months. I am looking at plans that probably would not cost much more than what is currently paid, but I need to look into the fine print. Bandwidth costs money. Storage costs money. I would love to have the option where most users can upload their images. We might also be able to support a feature where people who donate a certain amount won't see any ads. Not having to see my credit card charged every month for keeping this site up and running for the next year or so will make me less tired and make things more fun for me again.

I would also like you to pay for keeping this existing site up and running for 6 months, and then for migrating the content to an archive server (laptop) to be located inside my house. I will cover the costs of the business class Internet connection myself, although I plan on outsourcing the server migration. This costs money.

In all, off the top of my head, I figure we will need $3000 for the next 15-20 months. If we don't meet the full amount, I can always leave out things like the archive server.If we exceed the amount, we can buy cool stuff, measure it, and then burn it if it sucked. Or maybe put it on a permanent Changstar loaner program. Or maybe sock the excess away for keeping the site running in longer term.

https://www.gofundme.com/3b4fwr8s (https://www.gofundme.com/3b4fwr8s)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 18, 2015, 04:42:27 AM
Marv what about just adding affiliate links on your site like Ken Rockwell does?  Link to Amazon, B&H, Adorama, Newegg, all the big online electronics retailers.

I buy a ton online and don't use any affiliate links, but I would definitely use it for Changstar.  I think you get 1-5% on each sale depending on category.  That's a huge amount of money and I think most people here would do it in a heartbeat.  You do this and you are beholden to nobody.  You'd have a hell of a lot more than $3000.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 18, 2015, 04:46:34 AM
Just donated.  One of the things I know at least some other forums groups I join is they have say a premium membership which costs say $10-20 a year.  They get premium features and it would be cool with all the knowledge of Changstar and ideas that maybe there are some things you can give premium members that anyone would love to charge for.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 04:48:06 AM
I guess I could. I'm sure you've seen a few of them around in certain posts of mine where I might add a dong from Amazon. I just hate doing stuff like that. You know how I am. I'm a dumb-ass in terms on monetizing stuff. I'd prefer to measure a DAC than figure out how to do stuff like that.

It's probable that something like vBulletin might be able to integrate Amazon Affiliate ads into the new forum like how HF does it. This might be a good approach for keeping the new site up and running past the first year or so. Right now I need capital. I would hate to raid my savings account to pay for the setup of the new site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 18, 2015, 04:50:18 AM
How much would frequent users have to pay to reach $3k? We can start by paying our dues (if able) and see where that gets us.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: HitmanFluffy on September 18, 2015, 04:50:34 AM
Marv what about just adding affiliate links on your site like Ken Rockwell does?  Link to Amazon, B&H, Adorama, Newegg, all the big online electronics retailers.

I buy a ton online and don't use any affiliate links, but I would definitely use it for Changstar.  I think you get 1-5% on each sale depending on category.  That's a huge amount of money and I think most people here would do it in a heartbeat.  You do this and you are beholden to nobody.  You'd have a hell of a lot more than $3000.

I'd second that as a great idea. There arent many things I'd go out of my way to donate to but Changstar is definitely right up there. Can't find this irreverent mix of banter, advice and knowledge on all things audio and beyond elsewhere and it'd be heartbreaking to see it go. I'm pitching in as soon as I get back.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 18, 2015, 04:53:00 AM
I will be donating as soon as I can, I owe some money to a friend first, but then will donate. And as you stated in your post, I will continue to take on the responsibility of Moderator and even Administrator/ Technical Administrator if you'd like as well as do any work/maintenance and/or anything else that needs done to achieve your goal Marv. I am at your service. I love CHANGSTAR!  :)p2
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 04:54:21 AM
Thanks to everyone in advance. There's a part of me who would like to thank every one individually, but that would take a lot of time. You guys have to understand that it's very difficult for me to ask you guys to do this. Ravi (zerodeefex) was the one who convinced me that this approach would be acceptable. I'm not the kind of person who likes to take from others.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 18, 2015, 04:55:03 AM
I guess I could. I'm sure you've seen a few of them around in certain posts of mine where I might add a dong from Amazon. I just hate doing stuff like that. You know how I am. I'm a dumb-ass in terms on monetizing stuff. I'd prefer to measure a DAC than figure out how to do stuff like that.

It's probable that something like vBulletin might be able to integrate Amazon Affiliate ads into the new forum like how HF does it.

Do you need help doing it?  The sites all have affiliate programs because they want more customers and referrals.  Once you set up the account all you do is put the link on the front page or make it a banner on every page.  Im sure Zero or Ultra could do it in 5 minutes.

I probably won't donate because Im a cheap motherfucker.  But If Im buying from Amazon, my price is the same, and I would rather 5% go towards Changstar.  I think most people think like me, seriously.  I spent over 30K on amazon last year, and Im just one person.  You have thousands of members here.

I predict if you just put up affiliate links for Amazon, newegg, adorama and B&H you'd have your money for operating costs plus a ton of money to buy gear to review, more testing equipment, whatever.  Ken Rockwell makes most of his living off of affiliate links because I doubt anyone donates to him, but tons of people click on his links.  He bought some Mercedes SUV with that affiliate link money.

Also Im not in the market for the strap-on dong, the affiliate link is NOT product specific.  It's ANY sales after you click on it.  Most members would just book mark the link when they go shopping so you get all the referrals.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: HitmanFluffy on September 18, 2015, 04:56:10 AM
I just chipped in. Gotta keep this site going  :)p4
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 04:58:11 AM
Do you need help doing it?  The sites all have affiliate programs because they want more customers and referrals.  Once you set up the account all you do is put the link on the front page or make it a banner on every page.  Im sure Zero or Ultra could do it in 5 minutes.

I probably won't donate because Im a cheap motherfucker.  But If Im buying from Amazon, my price is the same, and I would rather 5% go towards Changstar.  I think most people think like me, seriously.  I spent over 30K on amazon last year, and Im just one person.  You have thousands of members here.

I predict if you just put up affiliate links for Amazon, newegg, adorama and B&H you'd have your money for operating costs plus a ton of money to buy gear to review, more testing equipment, whatever.  Ken Rockwell makes most of his living off of affiliate links because I doubt anyone donates to him, but tons of people click on his links.  He bought some Mercedes SUV with that affiliate link money.

Also Im not in the market for the strap-on dong, the affiliate link is NOT product specific.  It's ANY sales after you click on it.  Most members would just book mark the link when they go shopping so you get all the referrals.

I'll have TheGame look into customizing the new site so that you get a special Amazon Affiliate purchase link in every thread.

I donated to Ken. Seriously I did. I know a lot of people don't like him because he's biased and opinionated. But I like that about him. He's consistent and clear from where he comes from.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 18, 2015, 05:01:30 AM
OK, I'll donate just to get theGame to look into the affiliate link thing, I think you'd be surprised with how much money it would bring in.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 05:03:02 AM
P.S. I hope you guys know that all my political rants are very much tongue and cheek and playing devils' advocate. Those who know me well know that my views are fluid, rather complex, and difficult to compartmentalize. Folks like 'tode, zdfx, and Tari seem to have figured this out on their own. I'm sure a few others have too.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kothganesh on September 18, 2015, 05:03:14 AM
Done my thing.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Bill-p on September 18, 2015, 05:04:43 AM
I count at least 30 - 50 regulars. Each of them should pay around $50 - $100 and then you'll reach your goal, Marv.

Better yet, have the mofo that pays the most be the next Messiah. You can finally go back to being carefree and not have to worry about people looking to you to save them from bad headphones.

Anyway, I've donated. I'm usually a cheap bastard, but I've learned enough from this place, and I think it deserves my money. ;)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 18, 2015, 05:04:56 AM
I agree btw with Marv on the ken rockwell comment he really is subjective and has a lot to say.  Also if you message him he's really nice and informative.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Bill-p on September 18, 2015, 05:10:20 AM
Hey, I turn to Ken for camera lens reviews, and even though I don't always agree with him after using some lenses, I find his methodology useful and informative. :)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 18, 2015, 05:15:19 AM
I count at least 30 - 50 regulars. Each of them should pay around $50 - $100 and then we'll reach our goal.

Thanks Bill. Done.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 18, 2015, 05:21:02 AM
@knerian

I am already looking into and researching the Amazon Affiliate program, I do not think it will be a problem to add your suggestion, I think it is a great idea.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 05:26:05 AM
I actually have an Affiliate ID. If you click on those strap on dong links I put up and buy something, I do make $0.03. Just that I don't put enough of those links up.

You see here. See how I suck.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 18, 2015, 05:41:29 AM
@knerian

I am already looking into and researching the Amazon Affiliate program, I do not think it will be a problem to add your suggestion, I think it is a great idea.

Awesome!!  Here are some more:

http://www.adorama.com/pages/getconnected

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/affiliates.jsp

http://www.newegg.com/Info/Affiliates.aspx

http://www.flexoffers.com/affiliate-programs/monoprice-com-affiliate-program/

http://www.head-fi.org/affiliate-programs/make-Jude-a-rich-man-and-crush-that-asshole-MERV
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 18, 2015, 05:43:56 AM
Thank you knerian, those are very useful! I appreciate your post! I really like the monoprice and newegg ones. I know personally, i order a lot of my audio cables from mono price and my computer and electronic equipment from newegg. Awesome suggestions!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Bill-p on September 18, 2015, 06:00:54 AM
Why are so many guests interested in this topic? There are like... 15 - 20 guests viewing it right now.

If only we had a dollar for every one of them...
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: insidious meme on September 18, 2015, 06:15:39 AM
Oh, I like the Jude Mansilla donation.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: CEE TEE on September 18, 2015, 06:17:28 AM
Yep- of course I will donate to this site like I do to the other sites I love and hang out at. You really get out of life what you put into it. This ain't easy.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: zerodeefex on September 18, 2015, 06:20:47 AM
I've been seriously pushing him to optimize ads, take sponsorship $$, or SOMETHING for longer than I can remember. I'm really, really glad this is happening. Marv is basically anti-monetization. I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.

 I know a lot of you see him as this crazy talking head who runs Changstar and drops forth the gospel on DACs and other audio gear, but he's one of the most down to earth, wonderfully unassuming people I have had the pleasure of calling a friend.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: OJneg on September 18, 2015, 06:23:42 AM
 :)p5
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Luckbad on September 18, 2015, 06:28:35 AM
Take a look at Dreamhost. I've used them for years and they're great.

I can even generate you a promo code that'll make it cheaper for you.

Just send me a PM if you want to use them. You can sign up and get your money back within 3 months too if you don't like them.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 18, 2015, 06:30:42 AM
I've been seriously pushing him to optimize ads, take sponsorship $$, or SOMETHING for longer than I can remember. I'm really, really glad this is happening. Marv is basically anti-monetization. I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.

 I know a lot of you see him as this crazy talking head who runs Changstar and drops forth the gospel on DACs and other audio gear, but he's one of the most down to earth, wonderfully unassuming people I have had the pleasure of calling a friend.

x2
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: drfindley on September 18, 2015, 06:39:35 AM
Thanks to everyone in advance. There's a part of me who would like to thank every one individually, but that would take a lot of time. You guys have to understand that it's very difficult for me to ask you guys to do this. Ravi (zerodeefex) was the one who convinced me that this approach would be acceptable. I'm not the kind of person who likes to take from others.
I'm the same way. I have a hard time with this myself.

That said, let's make Chang completely self-funded some way, it'd be a shame to see it go down. Maybe if Jude had to pay per word he read? Then make him read that DAC argument thread. That should pay for a whole year by itself.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: drfindley on September 18, 2015, 06:40:22 AM
I've been seriously pushing him to optimize ads, take sponsorship $$, or SOMETHING for longer than I can remember. I'm really, really glad this is happening. Marv is basically anti-monetization. I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.

 I know a lot of you see him as this crazy talking head who runs Changstar and drops forth the gospel on DACs and other audio gear, but he's one of the most down to earth, wonderfully unassuming people I have had the pleasure of calling a friend.
I've only known Merv for a little bit but I couldn't agree more. We're lucky to have him as the great Messiah.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Sorrodje on September 18, 2015, 06:48:34 AM
My personal opinion :


- I'll be glad to pay . Love what you made here and want to keep it as it is.
- I hate worms in my meat and I lie freedom... so I hate ads in my Changstar. Much prefer to pay.
- I'm afraid that even if I pay something , CS as we knew it will disappear...  More growth, more noise , less signal , more $$$ needed to fund bandwidth for noise , more moderators to calm down rants between people who don't know themselves IRL ... Usual BS.   


The CS you built is more and more diluted as did thousands of interesting sites on the web...


But I'm a fascist, the way to go for me is:  Private forum, funded by members only for members. Free speach , no moderators , priority to SNR , private meets and so on. No need to be popular. Keep a a read only[size=78%] Public section with measurements/impressions in order everyone can find useful informations. Only members can contribute to that section.    [/size]




.. if that can be useful.. i've some place and badwidth to share on my own webserver... for backup, archives or whatever you need. ;)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ohhgourami on September 18, 2015, 07:02:21 AM
Donation made. Do take up knerian's idea of affiliate program to self-fund the site. It's a better long term plan.

Agree with Sorrodje! I like the idea of a private subforum. We need to keep the original community intact while the Music Alchemists' and huns from the north bum rush us. What makes this place special is the relative small size of the community. While I'm not against growth, we need a sanctuary too.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 18, 2015, 07:05:55 AM
Whatever the beef was, it seems even Jude and Amos are gunning for your success, Marv!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: HitmanFluffy on September 18, 2015, 07:08:54 AM
Sorrodje makes a fine point, the small insider crowd is what makes this place special. A backers-only sub-forum with invites extended in the future to certain members?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: AZ on September 18, 2015, 07:51:47 AM
Finally, thank you Marv  :boom:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: SoupRKnowva on September 18, 2015, 08:31:19 AM
Donated as soon as i saw this thread just now, cant believe it took you so long to ask for some help man, but Im fucking stoked you did.

Were all in this together.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: extenso on September 18, 2015, 09:18:01 AM
I have been lurking here for some time, and greatly appreciate the no bullshit approach to gear. So I´ve donated.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 18, 2015, 09:49:53 AM
Donation, will do.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 18, 2015, 10:24:47 AM
See the need. Will donate.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 18, 2015, 11:54:39 AM
I would love to donate but my funds are tighter than an unopened window. I would definitely buy amazon stuff through links when I'm making purchases.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: MisterRogers on September 18, 2015, 12:25:09 PM
This is the right approach Marv - this site means a lot to all of us; why wouldn't we want to help?
Donation sent. Don't be shy to ask for other help.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: atomicbob on September 18, 2015, 12:46:58 PM
Or maybe sock the excess away for keeping the site running in longer term.
My Vote, backed with dollars.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: MuZo2 on September 18, 2015, 01:44:27 PM
CS as we knew it will disappear...  More growth, more noise , less signal , more $$$ needed to fund bandwidth for noise , more moderators to calm down rants between people who don't know themselves IRL ... Usual BS.   

So true, Changstar will loose its identity.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 18, 2015, 02:16:07 PM
Marv, sent you a PM in case you still need that donor laptop. Will send a monetary donation in the next few days after I'm sure a sale went smoothly and customer is satisfied.

Gonna send another PM to you and TheGame.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: SoupRKnowva on September 18, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
I have an entirely consistent Ip address here in Korea with 100/100, and a that is on all the time. But I doubt it can be hosted on Windows huh?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: AustinValentine on September 18, 2015, 02:57:38 PM
Will definitely donate (closer to the end of the month because my checking account is looking...a little thin).

I'm with Knerian in that I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon. An affiliate setup would be an easy way for me to passively support the site. I've had AmazonSmile setup for the past two years to give a portion of my purchases to Human Rights Watch.

Well, gay marriage is a thing now so I'd be happy to divert the donation support elsewhere.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: JMcMasterJ on September 18, 2015, 02:59:20 PM
happy to help
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: aufmerksam on September 18, 2015, 03:03:18 PM
I don't know wtf happened early in life, but homeboy hates asking anyone to pay for anything or to try to make money off something like this. Hell, he dislikes the thought of Chang even paying for itself. Meanwhile he's loaned gear (and even money when things were super tight) to tons of us here, given us deals, and really just been an incredibly giving human being.

(https://jowenmedia.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/its-a-wonderful-life1.jpg?w=570)

Absolutely In.

I think that between this IPO, and the suggested affiliate links chang can amass enough to keep this baby humming. As mentioned before, the affiliate links strategy (for long term) requires no whoring, its essentially passive. As long as you aren't paying your mortgage and putting your darling children through college (cough, Rockwell, cough) then you don't even have to remind us every fucking page to click through the links when we buy shit.

For what its worth:
I strongly recommend against vendor money for upkeep and maintenance costs; I universally approve allowing vendors assist with meet logistics. I also recommend against speshul content for paying members only. That would definitely send the wrong message to young, poor, budding hobbyists. It also creates the wrong kind of entitlement. If there is a speshul invite only inner circle, that is great, but tying it to donations feels... proto-head-fi-ish.

Also:
Can the new website be "Changstar 2: The Search for More Money" ?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 03:03:48 PM
If you can't help right now, don't worry about it. No pressure. Some dude said something like "From each according to his ability"
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Cryptowolf on September 18, 2015, 03:07:15 PM
I'm in.  I consider my donation to be the same as paying for a far more informative, and useful, version of other glossy trade magazines.

Thanks Changstar.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Psalmanazar on September 18, 2015, 03:36:42 PM
Threw an Andrew Jackson your way. Please continue to kill Injuns and shitty headphones! I would give more but I'm a student.

Thanks for all the waterfall plots! You should keep them up on the new site along with measurements from other users and the charts even if you don't save the rest of the forum content. It wouldn't be too difficult to compile them all.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
We will definitely transfer the measurements one by one. Maybe write digests of the scattered info for each.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: frenchbat on September 18, 2015, 03:49:50 PM
About f... time.

Marv' that windows 7 license is still yours if you want too. Shoot me a pm if necessary.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: schiit on September 18, 2015, 03:50:09 PM
I'm in. Hopefully that won't upset the "no sucking manufacturer dong" ethos.

But hey, what am I saying? You guys tell us when stuff is crap (a lot of the newer members don't remember when Marv hated our stuff.) You helped us get better. Hopefully the cash will help you get better.

With respect to monetization, I've had long and painful experience with it on the agency side. Here's an honest breakdown of what works and what does not:

1. As many have already mentioned, affiliate links to Amazon (and everywhere else you can set them up) are an absolutely painless way to make money to support the site. Reminding people, repeatedly, that buying through the links supports the site is in no way bad taste and is strongly encouraged. The creation of a "shop here and support this site" section with your top products is also a great idea.

2. Adsense won't pay much at the current site size without hugely invasive ads-everywhere type placement, which makes me (an ad agency guy) want to hurl. Same thing with popovers and offers and crap like that. Shoot me if I ever propose such things.

3. Beyond that, it gets murky, because now we're talking conventional ads or sponsorship (ads) or corporate sponsored forums (which most smart companies don't like because it's a lot of effort, and start getting into the question of "do they get special moderation" and stuff like that.) Personally, I think a sponsorship model can be managed, but I am biased. I would have to think carefully about sponsoring, though, since there are already too many people out there who think the pirates are Schiit Shill Central.

Anyway, those are a few thoughts of an unrepentant (but at least somewhat ethical, I hope) marketer.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: gixxerwimp on September 18, 2015, 03:51:55 PM
A motorcycle racing blog/forum I read regularly offers ad-free subscriptions and sells a calendar that also raises funds. Maybe you could put together a Pirates-in-Bikinis Calendar to raise funds?  :)p5

https://motomatters.com/calendars/2014/12/06/on_sale_now_the_indispensable_motomatter.html

Ha! I see Kropotkin also has a GoFundMe page now.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 18, 2015, 03:55:14 PM
Donation made!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: eddypoon on September 18, 2015, 03:55:29 PM
I am in. 

All the best wishes for a successful fund raise. 
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: mikoss on September 18, 2015, 03:59:09 PM
Looking forward to the future... thanks again for everything CS has done as well  :)p12
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 18, 2015, 04:03:01 PM
Donated! Here is to Plankton! :)p5
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Chris F on September 18, 2015, 04:29:57 PM
I'm in.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: burnspbesq on September 18, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
Mary's politics are loathsome, but this joint is worth preserving. Done.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: mickeyvortex on September 18, 2015, 04:56:52 PM
Good work Marvey and everybody on here. 
my 2 cents...
Links to Amazon etc. YES!!!
Adsense- NNNNOOOO!!!!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: MisterRogers on September 18, 2015, 05:21:25 PM
Awesome gang - glad to see such support; we're > 3K already.


It'd be a great thing to keep going, and setup a fund to support the site. It can be replenished periodically.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: audiofrk on September 18, 2015, 05:39:07 PM
Marv its not a hand out.

We all use this site and have a preference as to how we want it to be ran. That includes no sponsor.  You want things done a certain way pay up (if you have means I mean).  That being said can you pm your paypal, I don't like uploading my credit cards info more often than I have too.

Soooo pretty sure I saw somewhere that some pirates know there way around ilustrator.... no one wants to make a army parody poster?

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/70/bd/2e/70bd2e49253db5caf32f22b652743a7f.jpg)


"what are you doing for your changstar?"  or something like that
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: firev1 on September 18, 2015, 05:43:27 PM
I will be sure to contribute once I get hold off a card! @_@ Will be glad to help this site going. Edit: If you could pm your paypal that be awesome too.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 18, 2015, 05:53:41 PM
Good work Marvey and everybody on here. 
my 2 cents...
Links to Amazon etc. YES!!!
Adsense- NNNNOOOO!!!!

Good suggestion. I am tending toward this as we have reached what is needed. (HOLY COW - thanks guys, I am so appreciative.) Amazon links are less annoying. Maybe have the adsense stuff for people who don't have registered accounts.

--

I intend for core CS people to have their own private sub-forum to discuss gear - at least initially, before a digest of such conversations can be presented to a more general audience. I too am concerned about the site getting too big and the quality of content getting lower. There is a reason why my more recent audio posts have been measurements... I do notice these things.

I also want to break down measurement sections. At this time, I only want Hands and my measurements to be sanctioned. (Additional people can also be approved upon meeting certain standards.) Other people can post their measurements, but they will go into a unsanctioned measurement sub-forum, i.e. "random measurements by random" people.

--

If I ever make money like Ken Rockwell, I'll give out a few EC amps to randomly selected people, before I buy myself a car. I'll get something stupid like a Camaro with the big motor. The new Mustang GT350 seems nice too.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 18, 2015, 05:56:13 PM
A paypal route would be good. My donation is stalled (only 'till later) as I have to go and find the right card.

I'm thinking, and hoping, that a few dollars is better than nothing, at this time. I'm also wondering if a small but repetitive donation is of better value than a one off. I do that for some of the Linux software I use, which is a one-man project (KXStudio). It may be only a beer, but enough people each buying a beer and... 

I still have ABP turned off for Changstar, and I'll keep it that way. But I must remember to actually click on an ad more often
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 18, 2015, 06:02:37 PM
I'd like to hopefully be a part of the sanctioned measurements so when you get some time marvey I'd love to know what guidelines you'd require. Also congratulations on reaching the goal that quickly
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 18, 2015, 06:03:08 PM

"what are you doing for your changstar?"  or something like that

I would volunteer to make the artwork, but it would probably scare people away.

I also want to break down measurement sections. At this time, I only want Hands and my measurements to be sanctioned. (Additional people can also be approved upon meeting certain standards.) Other people can post their measurements, but they will go into a unsanctioned measurement sub-forum, i.e. "random measurements by random" people.
If I ever make money like Ken Rockwell, I'll give out a few EC amps to randomly selected people, before I buy myself a car.

I should secure myself a C.U.N.T. so I can have a mix of your style and my style headphone measurements. Will need to standardize any amp/DAC measurements and might need some assistance to get up and running in that regard, even small stuff like resistor loads.


I'm just gonna put myself out there, total asshole style, as said random selection to have you build me a modded Super 7 ala Anax/MisterRogers style. Gosh, I want one of those so bad, haha.
:)p3
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Clemmaster on September 18, 2015, 06:12:40 PM
 :money:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: jexby on September 18, 2015, 06:19:26 PM
On vacation but wow! Cool to see a new funded land rush underway so quickly, for the benefit of pyrate nation.
This is the ONLY online gang I'd ever toss money at, period.
Thanks to everyone past and future for great info, superb PMs, and insightful product impressions.

Will be donating as soon as I spin up a new legit virtual card number, to keep goal surpassing the minimum.

I will out contribute Hands and also race to Mister Rigers house one day to claim/steal that Super 7 amp for my HD800s!
Back off Mister Fancy Hands I Went to Montana and aced blind tests.
 :)p2

Back to tequila drinking in the afternoon....  :)p5

ps. What is the perk level goal to reach in order to put Jude, Amos and Currawong in their own jailed sub Forum?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: altrunox on September 18, 2015, 06:30:48 PM
This is really nice! Changstar really needs a new ship
Unfortunatly I'm unemployed atm, and exchange rate is shit, so I'll donate in the future :)

About the ads, is it possible to add something like a membership that you pay and don't see any add?
Something like 20 bucks year, would be really nice.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 18, 2015, 06:32:22 PM
I'm in.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: audiofrk on September 18, 2015, 06:36:47 PM

I would volunteer to make the artwork, but it would probably scare people away.

your probably right nevermind.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 18, 2015, 07:18:10 PM
I'm about to donate (a very little) something as well (have to find a working card first), but here's my concept for a continuous financing system:

(http://s6.postimg.org/mzvw6z98h/Changstar_Concept_2.jpg)

(http://s6.postimg.org/yq9tod20x/Changstar_Concept_1.jpg)


This is just a 3min mockup from a dude with 0 graphics or web design skills. Just imagine the whole thing in pretty, with fancy progress bars and graphics etc.

Explanation: Build a permanent module on the Changstar page (upper right corner; upper left corner next to the logo; wherever) to display the current funding status. For example:

Monthly costs of keeping the site running: 1'500$
Stretch goals for the month:
Organize a loaner program for the Mr. Speakers Ether (+600$)
Build a searchable database for all user-uploaded measurement sheets à la Innerfidelity (+500$)
Purchase and measure a Sennheiser HD630 VB (+150$)
Organize a local meet in Bumfuck Mississippi (+300$)
Total: 3050$ for this month.

Not only would contributions thus be incentivized in a very tasteful way, but the system would be totally transparent. Each month a new calculation is made and a new cycle begins. Perhaps users can vote on what they'd like to see happen in polls or something. For example: The changstar users vote that they'd like to see a Sennheiser HD630VB purchased and measured. This headphone costs about 500$. The site owners/organizers get into contact with Sennheiser to try to work out favorable conditions. Perhaps the price gets down to 400$. This amount is then added as a stretch goal to the monthly calculation. If the necessary funds are collected, the organizers purchase the headphone, measure it, write a review etc, and then put the headphone up for auction on the site. Some user purchases it for 320$. That money gets rolled over to next months calculation. Total cost of purchasing and measuring the HD630VB: 80$, crowdfunded + organizers time. (This is just a naive example-calculation, of course real numbers might differ drastically, it's just an illustration).


Benefits of such a system:

+ Utter transparency
+ No need for corporate sponsorship or annoying ads (awesome companies like Schiit can chime in like any user: Their contributions are public and traceable)
+ Democratic component to the allocation of funds
+ Incentivization for donations through the 'stretch goal'-system

- Possibility that the owners could inflate the effective costs of keeping the system running in order to enrich themselves (but they could do so using Indiegogo or every other system as well, as soon as people are discontent with the communication donations will naturally drop...)
- Perhaps it wouldnt work because reasons.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 18, 2015, 07:47:59 PM
Wow, goal reached this quickly? That is quick.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kapanak on September 18, 2015, 08:13:15 PM
Wow, goal reached this quickly? That is quick.

Given people here, even myself, spend thousands, if not tens of thousands, on various hobbies, including audio, it is not that surprising the goal was reached in a couple of days. :)

Edit: Okay, less than 15 hours lol
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 18, 2015, 08:15:36 PM
Never mind the paypal thing: paid my pittance on the card. All comes from the same place in the end.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: gelocks on September 18, 2015, 08:18:12 PM
Wow, goal reached this quickly? That is quick.

I was just going to say that!
Great to see. I'm also supporting the affiliate links idea. I buy a looooot of sheit from amazon! ;)

Just donated a few bucks!
I definitely enjoy reading your (Marv, Anax, Hands, etc.) impressions, measurements, musings, and even fights. Hopefully the shoutbox will still be a "feature" on the next iteration. ;)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: imac2much on September 18, 2015, 09:54:04 PM
Relatively new user here, but I absolutely love the words and work that go into the good ship Changstar.  I'm in.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: jexby on September 18, 2015, 09:54:26 PM
My family dining place tonight.
No joke.
 :)p2

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: HideousPride on September 18, 2015, 10:10:44 PM
Much deserved donation.

A lot of my learning was done through the past couple years lurking and reading through content on Changstar. Cool to see the site getting the support it needs to keep going strong.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 18, 2015, 10:11:07 PM
My family dining place tonight.
No joke.
 :)p2



Today hell froze over, pirates found booty and the voyage ended with dinner and a show. Life is good.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Negura on September 18, 2015, 10:37:40 PM
All done, from across the pond.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Luckbad on September 18, 2015, 10:40:08 PM
Jason Stoddard is the SCHIIT!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: JoelT on September 18, 2015, 10:47:46 PM
Just donated. Thanks to those who have put so much energy in to this site, keeping it running and relevant. It's been a great resource for me and appreciate the honesty here. I don't post often, but read the site frequently. Keep up the good work everyone!
 :)p5


Edit: Perhaps I missed it in the comments, but has a Changstar Patreon account been considered?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 18, 2015, 11:13:31 PM
I'm in. Let't try to hit $4000 if we can. Go Pyrates!  :money:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 18, 2015, 11:26:44 PM
I'm in. Let's try to hit $4000 if we can. Go Pyrates!  :money:

Minimum. I'm hoping for six (double the expected cost).
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 18, 2015, 11:38:16 PM
Very cool of Jason Stoddard / Schiit
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: schiit on September 18, 2015, 11:42:59 PM
Very cool of Jason Stoddard / Schiit

Yeah, I hope it is not seen as trying to "buy" favor. I'd intended to donate anonymously, but I was probably still a little loopy this morning (I am down with pneumonia right now, lovely). In hindsight, I think it's the right thing to do, though. Better to have it out in the open.

Honestly, this is the easiest thing I can do to give back. Marv (and crew) have always given us honest feedback, and that has made us a better company. If I can help Marv get infrastructure/test gear/etc and improve his site, then that's a great way to give back.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: atomicbob on September 19, 2015, 12:03:38 AM
Get well soon Jason!

many thanks to Marv for making this site possible.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 12:13:01 AM
On Anaxilus:

1) He promises to be a good boy
2) He won't be a moderator
3) TheGame will moderate him - just flag his posts
 
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 12:15:16 AM
I'm about to donate (a very little) something as well (have to find a working card first), but here's my concept for a continuous financing system.

Good ideas, but initially I want to keep it simple not more complex for me to handle. I will seek out advice on better using the Amazon Affiliate thing to support ongoing operations after the first 12-15 months.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 19, 2015, 12:18:04 AM
On Anaxilus:

1) He promises to be a good boy
2) He won't be a moderator
3) TheGame will moderate him - just flag his posts
 

So the cute flesh eating rabbit can be cuddled? Okay.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Eric_C on September 19, 2015, 12:33:13 AM
Just made a small donation, wish I could afford more.
This is a great community and I wouldn't want it to go under. Plus, y'all always encourage me to spend more money, so affiliate links would be great!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 19, 2015, 12:48:09 AM
Yeah, I hope it is not seen as trying to "buy" favor. I'd intended to donate anonymously, but I was probably still a little loopy this morning (I am down with pneumonia right now, lovely). In hindsight, I think it's the right thing to do, though. Better to have it out in the open.

Honestly, this is the easiest thing I can do to give back. Marv (and crew) have always given us honest feedback, and that has made us a better company. If I can help Marv get infrastructure/test gear/etc and improve his site, then that's a great way to give back.

Thank you Jason and Schiit! All of my audio hardware except headphones is Schiit (Bifrost Uber, Valhalla 2, Vali, etc.) and it is thanks to the good members here that introduced me to your fine products. And I don't see it as you "buying favor" - your products speak for themselves.

Thank you Jason, Nick, and all at Schiit.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Skyline on September 19, 2015, 12:54:06 AM
Have you guys picked out new forum software yet?  I've run several forums, and have always loved working with Invision Power Board.

Will certainly be happy to make a donation once I'm in a place to do so.  I owe a lot to this site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 01:03:10 AM
That's on the short list. So is vBulletin's managed services.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 01:06:34 AM
So the cute flesh eating rabbit can be cuddled? Okay.

On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.

We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 19, 2015, 01:13:40 AM
Always good to have the off topic sort of sub-forums for shenanigans.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Skyline on September 19, 2015, 01:16:10 AM
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.

We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.


Ha.

The Bengals website I admin has a trash talk forum with an enter at your own risk warning.  I stay out of that one...

Truth be told, it's not that effective.  People still go at it in the main forums, and have to be "handled".  The trash talk forum goes largely unused. 
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kapanak on September 19, 2015, 01:17:39 AM
As long as there is an end to personal attacks and name calling for unnecessary reasons, and the "I'm right" syndrome, I think everything will work out just fine.

Except Shoutbox. That by nature should be minimally moderated, only things like advertising and excessive spam (there could be a timer or shout limit) should be moderated. My personal opinion.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 19, 2015, 01:20:38 AM
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.

We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.

I'm probably on that list and I'll cool it and work with TheGame as needed. Glad to be here, looking forward to what's next  :wheel:

Off-topic is a good idea (I want to re-start a science sub-forum), but people will troll to try to finish grudges (no names, but I've had it happen), so better if rules are universal and apply to everyone except takato-that boy can go nuts.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kapanak on September 19, 2015, 01:23:28 AM
I'm probably on that list and I'll cool it and work with TheGame as needed. Glad to be here, looking forward to what's next  :wheel:

Off-topic is a good idea (I want to re-start a science sub-forum), but people will troll to try to finish grudges (no names, but I've had it happen), so better if rules are universal and apply to everyone except takato-that boy can go nuts.

I second that. Science subforum would be awesome. Also second giving free pass to Takato. His passion is a prime example of what keeps this hobby alive for us new generation kids :)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 19, 2015, 01:51:47 AM
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.

We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.


Whatever works best. The cute flesh eating rabbit requires carrots and beef so prepare for a picnic.

My remark was meant as a joke. When the rabbit was about to visit the Granddaddy they were talking about which meat to eat. It was funny to say the least. That "tatanka" post was good for a chuckle.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 01:55:19 AM
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 19, 2015, 02:01:27 AM

Yeah this is not science.  THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 19, 2015, 02:16:58 AM
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.
I would have to insist, no science sub-forum Marv.
In fact I refer people to this site as an example of what science is definitely not!  :)p13
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: bigferret on September 19, 2015, 02:18:41 AM
I don't post much, but this is my favorite place on the web, so yeah, I chipped in what I could.  I love the site and I've learned so much.  You guys are great and I'd hate for this to go away. ahoy
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 19, 2015, 02:20:06 AM
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.

(http://i.space.com/images/i/000/048/999/original/pluto-new-horizons-july-2015.jpg?1437582878)
That's where you're wrong. TheGame loves Pluto.

The Science forum will LIVE
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 19, 2015, 02:23:10 AM
The Science forum can never die, for it is in every one of us:


This is what the Science forum can share with the world:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-34276032
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 19, 2015, 02:28:37 AM
A Science forum can answer all the questions you might have.

Such as: Do bee stings hurt more on your dick or your arm?
Guess no further! http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34278595
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 19, 2015, 02:33:27 AM
All right, I'm getting concerned that this is going to suck.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 19, 2015, 02:48:32 AM
On that note, TheGame will moderate anyone else who tends to cause trouble (really just 4-5 people, myself included). I've given him authority to tone down my posts. Some separation of duties and balance of power would be a good idea.

We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.



Awesome can we also have a sub-forum exclusively for Southerners?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: thegunner100 on September 19, 2015, 02:51:35 AM
Donated! It's not much, but I hope it helps to keep CS running for longer. I have some gear that goes unused for some time, so maybe I can put those on the loaner program in the future.

Seriously... what a great community we have here. I do agree with others though, that we should get our own sub-forum for the more veteran members.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 19, 2015, 03:26:22 AM
TheGame loves Pluto.

I like this better:

(http://en-us.sennheiser.com/images/718/all/square/5563/square_louped_hd_800_01_sq_high_end_sennheiser.png)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 19, 2015, 03:33:23 AM
I like this better:

(http://en-us.sennheiser.com/images/718/all/square/5563/square_louped_hd_800_01_sq_high_end_sennheiser.png)
With what current mods?  Please be specific. Or I might go off!  :)p13

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 19, 2015, 03:45:10 AM
You already are off.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 19, 2015, 03:48:56 AM


(http://en-us.sennheiser.com/images/718/all/square/5563/square_louped_hd_800_01_sq_high_end_sennheiser.png)

That's no moon, it's a space station.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: SeaBupter on September 19, 2015, 03:50:30 AM
I'm in - keep up the good work, Marv!  :)p4
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 19, 2015, 03:51:39 AM
With what current mods?  Please be specific.

We are getting off-topic for this thread - I'll message you with the answer to your question. We should stay on topic. (I don't mean that in a bad way, it is just appropriate to stay on the topic of this thread).
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: insidious meme on September 19, 2015, 03:54:46 AM
Ha.

The Bengals website I admin has a trash talk forum with an enter at your own risk warning.  I stay out of that one...

Truth be told, it's not that effective.  People still go at it in the main forums, and have to be "handled".  The trash talk forum goes largely unused. 


I was part of a community where trash talk was the topic. The smart ones were creative. But it didn't last. People just ran out of good ideas. So I have as thick a skin as anyone here.  headbang
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kevnin on September 19, 2015, 04:46:38 AM
I'm new here but have already learned a lot and want to see this site keep going. I'll chip in.  :)p1
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kamaka on September 19, 2015, 06:17:43 AM
Didn't have to think twice. This community is great and I'm happy to chip in.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Eric_C on September 19, 2015, 10:52:23 AM
We may create a dueling sub-forum where people can have at it. TheGame can simply move the relevant posts there.

So TheGame will moderate...The Game?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Xen on September 19, 2015, 12:49:50 PM
Chipped in
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 19, 2015, 01:44:36 PM
Chipped in a little, the future ideas posted all sound really cool.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on September 19, 2015, 03:14:25 PM
I'm in.


Boy, I'd hate to see all the words and threads so far disappear. Would much rather see the old stuff migrated...may be tough, but continuity seems important to me.

Monitization seems appropriate/inevitable to me. I've got no problems there.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that this place continues to be a strong, considered voice for the headphone enthusiast community.

More important by far, it seems to me, is a light hand in moderation allowing free flowing dialog.

A quote from one of my favorite thinkers:

"...awakening...the process of dialogue itself as a free flow of meaning among all the participants. In the beginning, people were expressing fixed positions, which they were tending to defend, but later it became clear that to maintain the feeling of friendship in the group was much more important than to hold any position. Such friendship has an impersonal quality in the sense that its establishment does not depend on a close personal relationship between participants. A new kind of mind thus beings to come into being which is based on the development of a common meaning that is constantly transforming in the process of the dialogue. People are no longer primarily in opposition, nor can they be said to be interacting, rather they are participating in this pool of common meaning which is capable of constant development and change. In this development the group has no pre-established purpose, though at each moment a purpose that is free to change may reveal itself. The group thus begins to engage in a new dynamic relationship in which no speaker is excluded, and in which no particular content is excluded. Thus far we have only begun to explore the possibilities of dialogue in the sense indicated here, but going further along these lines would open up the possibility of transforming not only the relationship between people, but even more, the very nature of consciousness in which these relationships arise."

David Bohm, _Unfolding Meaning_, p. 175
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: insidious meme on September 19, 2015, 03:25:52 PM
Ah, joined in the party earlier. Didn't mention it in earlier posts.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 19, 2015, 03:27:37 PM
So TheGame will moderate...The Game?


hehe I won't be participating in that forum, just moderating. I am not interested in a dueling forum lol
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 19, 2015, 04:56:55 PM
More important by far, it seems to me, is a light hand in moderation allowing free flowing dialog.

The light hand will continue, but I feel a formal moderation process will be more needed with the influx of new members. I want to be prepared. I also don't want to be in a situation where I have to make judgement calls against certain people. People write me PMs all day on why I let certain people do this or that - and this is something I don't have time to deal with - especially when they don't listen to my advice of "just walk away".

Really, only a handful of people have caused me headaches recently, and it would be nice for me to be able to offload the responsibility of breaking up arguments and diffusing anger. Also, I've seen TheGame's moderation at work, and he is very very good. His performance is an A. In contrast, Currawong's moderation ranges from a D to F-, although I am sure is his hands are tied because he has to follow orders from his master.

Also, when the new forum starts, I am sure the habitual troublemakers who have already been banned from other forums will try to sneak their way in.

What's more important is keeping up with good content and leading the discussion. People like Hands, Ultrabike, Atomicbob will be able to help do this on the measurement end. Anaxilus, TheGunner, Clemmaster, Keanex, OJ, Nergura, Audiofrk, Bill-P (the list is really too long) will be able to fill us in on the subjective side of things. We have a lot of "discussion leaders"... all based on merit, not number of posts.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 20, 2015, 01:27:59 AM
I just wanted to chime in because I know from just reading the posts about the donations and whatnot that the community might get bigger.

I don't think that should ever be an issue.  Fact is the core team is what facilitates the site and as we grow the core team will stay in tact.  Of course we will see a lot more new bodies but ultimately people come here for the quality of information.  That is the core of what most people on here represent.  Changstar has and always will be about quality of information and as long as that doesn't go away we everything will always be in tact.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: DubiousMike on September 20, 2015, 01:39:08 AM
Donation sent.   :)p4
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 20, 2015, 03:09:27 AM
There will be no science sub-forum. This is not science.

Fine. I'll have to establish the First Objectivist Church of Pretentious Wankery elsewhere then  :'(


My personal opinion :

But I'm a fascist

Oh you Frenchies, first sign of a revolution and you're all ready to polish the New Order's boots  :)p8
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 20, 2015, 03:20:29 AM
Fine. I'll have to establish the First Objectivist Church of Pretentious Wankery elsewhere then  :'(

Shouldn't be a problem, it appears to be franchiseable. I'm sure there's somewhere with a low growth rate and poor street lighting that will accommodate. ;D
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 20, 2015, 03:33:21 AM
Shouldn't be a problem, it appears to be franchiseable. I'm sure there's somewhere with a low growth rate and poor street lighting that will accommodate. ;D

(http://imgur.com/h6kWFZ3.png)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 20, 2015, 04:07:14 AM
Fine. I'll have to establish the First Objectivist Church of Pretentious Wankery elsewhere then  :'(


I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: thegunner100 on September 20, 2015, 04:17:03 AM
I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.

I'll probably be having some popcorn instead of  :)p3
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 20, 2015, 04:20:59 AM
I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.

Good. Only those pure of heart and open of eyes will be gifted with the infinite wisdom of Science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3KV4fLSNoU
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: insidious meme on September 20, 2015, 04:23:55 AM
While turning it into the nuclear wasteland that Marv envisions.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 20, 2015, 04:27:34 AM
Perhaps "Unsound Science and Mind" would be more appropriate.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 20, 2015, 04:31:27 AM
Can't wait! It'll be like SeaWorld Japan!! :)p3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGepBtBCuTY
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 20, 2015, 04:39:00 AM
Can't wait! It'll be like SeaWorld Japan!! :)p3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGepBtBCuTY
Wait I thought that happened in Colorado?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 20, 2015, 05:23:14 AM
Nope. Denver, Japan.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Armaegis on September 20, 2015, 06:05:00 AM
I changed my mind. We will have the "Internet Dueling and Sound Science" sub-forum. TheGame has declined to moderate that sub-forum, so it will go un-moderated. I myself will not be able to see that sub-forum's contents.

I volunteer to moderate and will delete all the rational posts, leaving only the best drivel to ferment and fester.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Sqveak on September 20, 2015, 06:46:42 AM
Just donated.

The information and banter of chang is much appreciated.

I'm with Tyll in hope of seeing existing content migrated in some form.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 20, 2015, 07:02:37 AM
I volunteer to moderate and will delete all the rational posts, leaving only the best drivel to ferment and fester.

Then I must hone my silliness and sarcasm for my verbal blades must be sharp. You are so Metal.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 20, 2015, 07:04:51 AM
Marv, I hope you will reconsider not migrating. Those who come after will not have the context to understand how all this started. Or why. Yes, we have baggage, but it is part of who we are as a community. That and I am wearing "the shirt" from Wikia to the grocery store. I had to explain what it meant. Then I rapidly left. Isn't that worth something?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 20, 2015, 12:30:22 PM
Marv, I hope you will reconsider not migrating. Those who come after will not have the context to understand how all this started. Or why. Yes, we have baggage, but it is part of who we are as a community. That and I am wearing "the shirt" from Wikia to the grocery store. I had to explain what it meant. Then I rapidly left. Isn't that worth something?

This one?

(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/8/8e/I-love-wikipedia-shirt.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060605124011)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 20, 2015, 02:13:42 PM
Perhaps "Unsound Science and Mind" would be more appropriate.
Yeah, I'm not going to a "sound science" forum.

"Pluto and awesome science discoveries sh1t" forum, on the other hand, will be a place for cool kids.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 20, 2015, 04:14:04 PM
Hmm science forum.  Should a post like is Pluto a planet be on the dueling boards or in the science section?

haha
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: SeaBupter on September 20, 2015, 04:24:52 PM
Marv, I hope you will reconsider not migrating. Those who come after will not have the context to understand how all this started. Or why. Yes, we have baggage, but it is part of who we are as a community.

+1
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 20, 2015, 06:24:02 PM
From what I know, migrating the content is only possible to vBulletin 4.x (not 5.x) Even after this, migration will cause of a lot of issues with links to internal content (posts, images, etc.) in addition to the typical migration issues. There's usually a need to run scripts and manually tweak things to fix issues and an entire process which requires formal testing to make sure there is nothing screwed up. Don't want to deal with that.

CS is currently running on fairly premium infrastructure which is fast and responsive. The downside is that space and bandwidth is capped and we are reaching these limits, and the service isn't turnkey. I have to deal myself with occasional database cleanup and I don't have resources where I can submit tickets were I can get little things done.

It's possible to stay on this platform, but I would need SMF experts on retainer to maintain this site and also expand on its functionality. With the money raised, it would certainly be possible to do that. I hear people complain about the shitty SMF forum software and cosmetics, so I figured I'd move on to a full turnkey solution.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: SeaBupter on September 20, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
TANSTAAFL strikes again. :shark:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: riker1384 on September 20, 2015, 08:45:37 PM
Regardless of whether it's migrated to the new forum or kept separate, I think it's vital to keep the old content available. Most of the major headphones have already been measured and discussed here, so it could be decades before the new forum has more content than this.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kapanak on September 20, 2015, 08:57:59 PM
Is it possible to archive what's available here permanently in some shape or form? It doesn't have to be migrated to a new system as long as it could be preserved, right? And later on for new topics they can reference this archived material.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 20, 2015, 10:15:24 PM
Is it possible to archive what's available here permanently in some shape or form? It doesn't have to be migrated to a new system as long as it could be preserved, right? And later on for new topics they can reference this archived material.

Gutting it and saving a static copy sounds like a good solution.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 20, 2015, 10:30:52 PM
Gutting it and saving a static copy sounds like a good solution.

I agree.  Can't lose all that data there has to be a way to preserve what is important.  I know from other forums I have participated in that most of the time the old forums stay up for say a week then it's up to the users to add all the information onto the new forums.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 21, 2015, 12:41:18 AM
The idea is to run keep a copy of this current website running on a lower performance server that I will run from a home business class Internet connection. The legacy content can be running on the same SMF forum software or served via web server from a static copy extracted from here. There are +/-'s associated with each method and I will be consulting someone on the best approach.

Nothing will be lost, just that old content will be on the old server.

Also, some old content will be slowly migrated. The measurements will definitely be moved over for the sake of completeness. Good quality popular content will be rewritten into a digest format and also moved over.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 21, 2015, 01:21:13 AM
The light hand will continue, but I feel a formal moderation process will be more needed with the influx of new members. I want to be prepared. I also don't want to be in a situation where I have to make judgement calls against certain people. People write me PMs all day on why I let certain people do this or that - and this is something I don't have time to deal with - especially when they don't listen to my advice of "just walk away".

Really, only a handful of people have caused me headaches recently, and it would be nice for me to be able to offload the responsibility of breaking up arguments and diffusing anger. Also, I've seen TheGame's moderation at work, and he is very very good. His performance is an A. In contrast, Currawong's moderation ranges from a D to F-, although I am sure is his hands are tied because he has to follow orders from his master.

Also, when the new forum starts, I am sure the habitual troublemakers who have already been banned from other forums will try to sneak their way in.

What's more important is keeping up with good content and leading the discussion. People like Hands, Ultrabike, Atomicbob will be able to help do this on the measurement end. Anaxilus, TheGunner, Clemmaster, Keanex, OJ, Nergura, Audiofrk, Bill-P (the list is really too long) will be able to fill us in on the subjective side of things. We have a lot of "discussion leaders"... all based on merit, not number of posts.
Late post but whoa, thanks for mentioning me. It honestly means a lot.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 21, 2015, 08:20:05 AM
I agree.  Can't lose all that data there has to be a way to preserve what is important.  I know from other forums I have participated in that most of the time the old forums stay up for say a week then it's up to the users to add all the information onto the new forums.


Nothing will be lost, just that old content will be on the old server.


Good. How about ongoing comment on goings on at other places? That is an eye-opener for people like me who do not have a history of heavy involvement with other headphone forums. But... what can be said on a relatively obscure corner of the internet is not necessarily what can be said on a site becoming more mainstream.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kothganesh on September 21, 2015, 01:43:05 PM
Thad, I've always believed that irreverential genuineness is the bedrock of CS in whatever avatar. Now that I write this, I must stop saying thank you after every question I ask :P
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: drfindley on September 21, 2015, 05:23:48 PM
The idea is to run keep a copy of this current website running on a lower performance server that I will run from a home business class Internet connection. The legacy content can be running on the same SMF forum software or served via web server from a static copy extracted from here. There are +/-'s associated with each method and I will be consulting someone on the best approach.

Nothing will be lost, just that old content will be on the old server.

Also, some old content will be slowly migrated. The measurements will definitely be moved over for the sake of completeness. Good quality popular content will be rewritten into a digest format and also moved over.

I honestly think this is a pretty solid approach. Some threads (like the DAC thread) could really just be the image, the explanations, a recap of some current thinking and a link back to older threads on CS and HF. The conversation will keep going like it always has.

I think every headphone should probably to get it's own subjective thread and measurements thread again. The transition will be a bit tricky, but I'm sure everything will return to normal. (What's normal here).
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 21, 2015, 08:28:20 PM
Thad, I've always believed that irreverential genuineness is the bedrock of CS in whatever avatar. Now that I write this, I must stop saying thank you after every question I ask :P

Thank you.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 21, 2015, 09:10:00 PM
The transition will be a bit tricky, but I'm sure everything will return to normal. (What's normal here).

Normal? I like this forum because even in normal mode I am weird.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: fishski13 on September 22, 2015, 02:24:18 AM
thanks Marv.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: audiofrk on September 22, 2015, 09:46:21 PM
Few suggestions

Can we call the new site the black pearl? (Got to admit the first movie was entertaining before it got played out)

Can we call the founding members pirate lords?

What are the seven pieces of nine?

Anyway to force Jason to put on a pirate hat?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on September 22, 2015, 10:00:50 PM
What are the seven pieces of nine?

One less than eight pieces of eight.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 22, 2015, 10:06:10 PM
I've got a name for the site already which emphasizes the positive aspects of CS and what I found the most rewarding.

I just caught up on the Shoutbox stuff from last night. I am horrified. That's all I will say.

BTW, putting people on "block" also blocks Shoutbox content.

I have been spending my time with family, work, EC, and getting the new site up and running. Not enough hours in the day. Some personal stuff going on too. Sorry, it's taking longer than I expected.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 22, 2015, 10:12:03 PM
I've got a name for the site already which emphasizes the positive aspects of CS and what I found the most rewarding.

I just caught up on the Shoutbox stuff from last night. I am horrified. That's all I will say.

BTW, putting people on "block" also blocks Shoutbox content.

I have been spending my time with family, work, EC, and getting the new site up and running. Not enough hours in the day. Some personal stuff going on too. Sorry, it's taking longer than I expected.

WTF Marv has a personal life what is the internet going to do.  J/K.  Dude take some time off and come back with a fresh mind.  Might do wonders.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: audiofrk on September 22, 2015, 10:14:50 PM
One less than eight pieces of eight.

What are the eight pieces of nine?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on September 22, 2015, 10:20:36 PM
Go buy a calculator.



Take your time, Marv. Rushing shit is not good for the soul.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: audiofrk on September 22, 2015, 10:21:51 PM
Yeah don't rush man just let us k ow whats up when it goes down.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Stapsy on September 23, 2015, 01:25:46 AM
Glad to finally be able to contribute.  Let me know if you need any extra help.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: takato14 on September 23, 2015, 04:53:37 AM
Alright, just gonna add my two cents to this whole migration idea...

"I feel that a fresh start will be necessary" Alright, it's your site, your word is word of God, but can you at least offer an explanation as to why? You mentioned something about "liking change" in the shoutbox but that doesn't seem particularly logical. SimpleMachines is extremely speedy and well organized, and the search function is simply unmatched. Huddler, vBulletin, phpBB, none of them can compare in speed and consistency.

"The forum software generally sucks and has certain limitations" -- Ok, I'll have to take your word on this one since I've never been on the other end of the experience. However, I know of several, much larger communities that manage just fine with SMF. As for archiving things for a fresh start, sure, that's fine with me. I just don't see a genuine need to change the site layout and GUI. The website doesn't look bad and it's not poorly organized; there's no reason the new resources at hand can't be put to expanding the framework we already have. Why fix what isn't broken?

I've used SimpleMachines forums for most of my computer life and while they have a sort of soft spot with me, its not unwarranted. My experience with other forums has simply been subpar by comparison, just littered with various inefficient layout schemes and unnecessarily large texts and containers, slow and intensive visual effects... website design has been getting worse and worse as time has gone on, it's all about who can be the flashiest instead of website layout efficiency and other aspects that actually matter and affect the end user experience.

I'd just really hate to see yet another forum I make extensive use of become a chore to interact with.

Peace.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 23, 2015, 04:56:28 AM
SimpleMachines is extremely speedy and well organized, and the search function is simply unmatched. Huddler, vBulletin, phpBB, none of them can compare in speed and consistency.


+1,  I echo this sentiment.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 23, 2015, 07:47:27 AM
Test drove vB5 Cloud. It sucks. Xenforo seems promising.

Why fix what isn't broken?

Maybe little things have been breaking behind the scenes and I've been spending too much time fixing them...
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 23, 2015, 12:21:01 PM
Please take care, have a good sleep and spend some time with good company.

You can only do what you are capable of. The limits are the extent to which you take care of yourself. I learnt this the hard way many times.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: takato14 on September 23, 2015, 07:27:37 PM
Maybe little things have been breaking behind the scenes and I've been spending too much time fixing them...
... that's called website administration, if you try and make things "perfect" to keep things from going wrong you're just going to be repeatedly disappointed

one of the first things my teacher told us when I was in school for network administration, a point which he reiterated countless times throughout the course, went something like this: "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, shit goes bump in the night, if you're not prepared for that you shouldn't be in this classroom; you shouldn't be working with computers at all"

but if it's becoming too difficult to manage, well, at least I tried to change your mind I guess. Get plenty of rest and take care.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2015, 12:15:10 AM
... that's called website administration, if you try and make things "perfect" to keep things from going wrong you're just going to be repeatedly disappointed

one of the first things my teacher told us ... blah blah blah blah blah

FWIW, I was IT Director of a denovo financial institution where I built out the infrastructure from the ground up during a time of rapid growth, and before that I spent six years doing web infrastructure and distributing computing infrastructure work, and before that I did software engineering work for six years.

You can tell me what to know or give me tidbits of your teachers' wisdom after you've actually worked in IT for 10-20 more years. Maybe you should try running your own web forum with similar levels of activity, crazy members who cause a flood of "WTF / Defcon 3" PMs and text messages to you, work one real job, and one hobby job (seriously), while taking care of / spending time with wife and kids.

By the way, it is possible to get things stabilized in IT to the point where you can play putt putt golf in the office on a daily basis. This should be the ultimate goal of anyone in charge of IT. Zero unplanned downtime. In fact, this is absolutely necessary for certain types of IT businesses (SaaS, PaaS, etc.). This is assuming you can get senior management and Board buy in on certain expeditures, and you know exactly what you are doing. Most "IT Managers" I've met are morons, especially at the large non technology corporations. Let's not even get into the subject of MIS "teachers".
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 24, 2015, 12:48:06 AM
Maybe you should try running your own web forum with similar levels of activity, crazy members who cause a flood of "WTF / Defcon 3" PMs and text messages to you, work one real job, and one hobby job (seriously), while taking care of / spending time with wife and kids.

What a bunch of crybabies! "Daddy, Claritas hit me." :'(  Well, son, maybe you shouldn't have thrown the first punch.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2015, 01:09:52 AM
Everyone has a personal force field here:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2727.0.html

The Ignore function also works in the Shoutbox.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: gelocks on September 24, 2015, 01:14:43 AM
Everyone has a personal force field here:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2727.0.html

The Ignore function also works in the Shoutbox.


Hahahaha!!
I had not seen that! LOL.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 24, 2015, 01:16:54 AM
Everyone has a personal force field here:
http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2727.0.html

The Ignore function also works in the Shoutbox.

Oh, I know. I really don't want it to come to that. But it might.

In any case, I don't see why it should become your problem.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 24, 2015, 02:21:29 AM
Oh, I know. I really don't want it to come to that. But it might.

In any case, I don't see why it should become your problem.

Are you surprised there are certain people that can't follow directions or handle their own issues that feel a need to appeal to someone else for their own appeasement? Instead of being just a random dude who wanted to create a forum chewing the fat about audio out of his own generosity, he's now seen as a proprietor of a business that must coddle and provide eternal happiness for even the lowest common denominator of consumer with such unrealistic expectations that even Jason Stoddard would hang up on them.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 24, 2015, 02:26:04 AM
Are you surprised there are certain people that can't follow directions or handle their own issues that feel a need to appeal to someone else for their own appeasement?

Well, I'm not like that. So, yes, I am kind of surprised.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hammy on September 24, 2015, 03:11:29 AM
Test drove vB5 Cloud. It sucks. Xenforo seems promising.

The Steve Hoffman forums made a switch from vBulletin to XenForo. As a forum user I like XenForo. It works well and manages to keep good track of what posts you have read and what you haven't. Good alerts for letting you know if someone has quoted you and good alerts for letting you know if someone has posted to a thread you're watching. It's all good as a forum user for posting and keeping up with the forum. I don't know how it is for admin stuff and hardware needs and that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: wfojas on September 24, 2015, 02:44:16 PM
Used to be part of the email forum Phonogram, which had a LOT of members and 150+ emails a day, more on weekeneds. By the last years, it was bursting at the seams, and they started to ask for annual donations to keep it going. It was like $15 a year and the forum moderator would open and close access to people (it was a managed list distribution). The email server still eventually died, along with members, so now there's a facebook page, and a low key private list. But it lasted almost ten years, and to this day, is probably the deepest resource for vinyl info. Fremer was there, until all the attacks bummed him. Stan Ricker, Harry Wesfield, Bob Reina, Robert Greene. Names, but there were a lot of deep AC/DC fans, Deadheads, Blue Note fanatics, Living Stereo and Living Presence collectors.

The point was it was great because of all the knowledge, and Changstar has that same quality. Hopefully you find a way to keep it going, cause honest knowledge comes at a price, but is really a rare thing.

Also, this thread has to more prominent, cause this is about long term existence.  I just found it yesterday, and its been going on for a while.  headbang

Going to gofundme now.

Willy
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2015, 05:26:52 PM
Also, this thread has to more prominent, cause this is about long term existence

You understand.

I tend to be more of the impatient type wanting to move things forward as fast as possible. But right now, I am also evaluating data centers / service providers.

I've got both vB5 and XenForo at two different facilities. One facility sits on my questions, and asks more questions, and then sits for two days to tell me that they cannot receive screenshots to give them my admin (which they should already have). The other has two different people respond in a matter of hours to low priority ticket on open questions regarding the process to move from a VPS to dedicated server, how they monitor and maintain databases, etc.

Proper due diligence never hurts.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2015, 05:51:56 PM
FYI. I plan on making donation expenditures available to respected members of high rank and up.

I am also not ashamed to say that I will be giving TheGame a nice gift for his moderation services and Hans / Ultrabike some higher quality measuring equipment so they can measure DAC / amps (per posting and measurement standards currently being developed to avoid the "stream of consciousness" effect.)

When we get past what we need to survive for 15 months, the rest will be allocated to headphones or gear of interest to be decided by the community. The gear will be measured and put on a loaner program for a certain period of time. After this, we'll find a fair way to give it away to a member of the community within the bounds of the law.

I will eventually solicit advice on monetizing ads and affiliate programs so the site will pay for itself after 15 months. If I ever make Ken Rockwell money on the ads, I'll throw out a few bones and get a Camaro SS or Mustang GT350 for myself (there are many better cars, but I would like to have an American muscle car again). After the car, I will give back to the community and maybe some charitable causes.

P.S.

Thank you again. I am stunned at the level of support. I really had no idea. The name of the new forum will reflect how I truly feel about this special community.

Also, don't feel bad if you cannot give. I understand that not everyone is in a situation where they can afford to do so. Send positive vibes instead of money. Or show understanding or generosity to the guy in the wheelchair who sneered at you for opening the door for him.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Chris F on September 24, 2015, 06:01:15 PM
No idea how it is from the administrative side but as a user I really like XenForo.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2015, 06:08:55 PM
XenForo administration is primitive, but straightforward and simple along the lines of SMF. The response time of XF was super fast. Lots of info on Google on how to do things. It took me 10 seconds to figure out how make it so only guests saw the ads. It took me another 10 seconds to install 3rd party skins that looked decent.

vB5 administration is a nightmare. Some administrative functions required me to wait 60 seconds and click yes/OK another 3 times.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 24, 2015, 06:11:36 PM
FYI. I plan on making donation expenditures available to respected members of high rank and up.

I am also not ashamed to say that I will be giving TheGame a nice gift for his moderation services and Hans / Ultrabike some higher quality measuring equipment so they can measure DAC / amps (per posting and measurement standards currently being developed to avoid the "stream of consciousness" effect.)

When we get past what we need to survive for 15 months, the rest will be allocated to headphones or gear of interest to be decided by the community. The gear will be measured and put on a loaner program for a certain period of time. After this, we'll find a fair way to give it away to a member of the community within the bounds of the law.

I will eventually solicit advice on monetizing ads and affiliate programs so the site will pay for itself after 15 months. If I ever make Ken Rockwell money on the ads, I'll throw out a few bones and get a Camaro SS or Mustang GT350 for myself (there are many better cars, but I would like to have an American muscle car again). After the car, I will give back to the community and maybe some charitable causes.

P.S.

Thank you again. I am stunned at the level of support. I really had no idea. The name of the new forum will reflect how I truly feel about this special community.

Also, don't feel bad if you cannot give. I understand that not everyone is in a situation where they can afford to do so. Send positive vibes instead of money. Or show understanding or generosity to the guy in the wheelchair who sneered at you for opening the door for him.


Great ideas all around!

BTW: My donation IS still forthcoming; I had one card refused by the service, so I'm looking for an alternative.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hroðulf on September 24, 2015, 08:21:50 PM
Do I get a sponsor status yet? 69 bux is big money here in Latvia, buys much potato!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 24, 2015, 08:35:34 PM
Ask TheGame to set you up on the new site. It should be up this weekend.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 24, 2015, 08:45:06 PM
Sure not a problem! Marv, just email me the details when you get the site up and I'll get to work.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 24, 2015, 08:52:04 PM
I will eventually solicit advice on monetizing ads and affiliate programs so the site will pay for itself after 15 months. If I ever make Ken Rockwell money on the ads, I'll throw out a few bones and get a Camaro SS or Mustang GT350 for myself (there are many better cars, but I would like to have an American muscle car again). After the car, I will give back to the community and maybe some charitable causes.

AFFILIATE LINKS!

Bought a used 2011 model, but it's still a GL550:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/mercedes/gl550.htm#rex
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Chartwell85 on September 24, 2015, 09:39:03 PM
New hero image on the GoFundMe page literally made me shoot RedBull out of my nose.  Freakin' glorious!!!!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: jexby on September 24, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
ROTFL
and
Flipping off my iPad screen at the same time!
Hahahaha
 :)p4
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 24, 2015, 10:07:05 PM
Mischievous!

Wonderfuly mischievous

 :)p13
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 24, 2015, 10:30:55 PM
Srsly hysterical
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 24, 2015, 11:13:22 PM
You asked for it. Now sing along with this bit of NewGrounds goodness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvTxv46ano&ab_channel=DEEKay004
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lmswjm on September 25, 2015, 03:22:43 AM
I love the shopped looks of shock and disgust on everyone's faces :gross:   
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: zerodeefex on September 25, 2015, 05:51:39 AM
ANNOUNCEMENT:

Hello fellow pyrates! Your contributions here (both monetary and words of support) are AWESOME and very, very appreciated. I want to express my sincere thanks for your support.

I wanted to give you a sneak peek of where we're headed. Many of us have become great friends thanks to the connections we've formed here. The community is what makes this place what it is, and it's our community spirit that will be the driving force of the new site. That being said, Chang 2.0 will still maintain a bit of the edge that comes with honest discourse; it's important that we encourage folks with differing opinions about gear and audio to congregate. However, after talking to a lot of senior members who have dropped off in recent months, we know we have to dedicate more time and effort to ensuring the place doesn't go to shit.

And so, as part of ensuring Chang 2.0 maintains a solid focus on the gear and the community, Marv has encouraged folks to take a more active role in steering the new site.

First, CEE TEE and myself will join the board of advisors for the new forum. What this means in practice is that we've set up a formal structure for us to both advise and fund Chang 2.0 on a regular basis to ensure growth of the new site. Commitments have been obtained from the two of us and we'll be doing regular reviews of forum performance and adherence to our guiding principles with Marv and team.

Additionally, we're going to launch a formal, dedicated measurements team with Hands and Ultrabike (who IS willing) leading the charge. Measurements and their correlation to observable phenomena are an important part of the foundation of this place and we really want to welcome people interested in learning about, sharing, and comparing measurements and measurement methodologies. The more we can create a common knowledge base and set of common standards around headphone and gear measurement, the better off our community will be.

Lastly, we have TheGame rounding out the team as operations advisor. Jeremy has been the only thing keeping Marv sane for a while and so we're incredibly glad he'll be around to moderate Chang 2.0!

I am super excited for where we're headed. I won't pretend like we won't have growing pains as we move to new infrastructure, but I am confident the new site will support the kind of exponential growth we've been seeing around here AND represents a much better platform for us to continue the discussion about music, gear and measurements that we absolutely love.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kapanak on September 25, 2015, 05:54:00 AM
That's great and all, but can we get Anax and Tode's shoutbox fiasco fixed please?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 25, 2015, 05:54:56 AM
Ultrabike is willing. :)p7
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 25, 2015, 06:13:40 AM
I love the shopped looks of shock and disgust on everyone's faces :gross:   

How do you know that they didnt retroactively recoil at being photobombed?  Didnt you see back to the future, photographs change.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Anaxilus on September 25, 2015, 06:20:45 AM

As of 10:30-10:50 PM PST, I have had my shoutbox privileges and rank/access reduced by the only admins online during this period of time. zerodeefex and Marv. I have reached out to said members via text and pm and also through TheGame the official moderator here to investigate what is happening with only the Game and ultrabike responding they have no idea. I therefore presume, one or both are acting on their own accord in a stealthy fashion to censor and control my account and interactions with the forum.

I wish all the best for the future of the rest of the chang gang, but it appears I won't be making this move or remaining on this forum in the foreseeable future. Under guidance and leadership like this that acts without transparency, democracy or integrity, it is apparent that my greatest fear that this forum end up like another all too familiar place appears to be coming to pass. I am also quite disappointed on a deeper personal level of friendship that transcends forums and hobbies. I wish all of you the best in your future endeavors whether in audio or otherwise.

Cheers to all the friends and frenemies I've made over the years!  :)p5

All the Best,

Mike/Anax
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 25, 2015, 06:29:21 AM
Hello CHANGSTAR Members and guests! I would like to discuss further about the Future of CHANGSTAR. Firstly, I would like to thank every single person here for making CHANGSTAR a premier site for Audiophiles and Audio enthusiasts, we have an extraordinary community of knowledgeable, friendly, and overall outstanding individuals.

That being said, to continue this tradition on the new site, I will be keeping a very close and watchful eye toward unnecessary or demeaning behavior towards other members and guests. This is not a punishment, nor is it a "Big Brother is watching" scenario - it is simply to make sure each member and guest is happy, and feels safe and an important part of the community.

Marv is not excluded from this. He is not above my Moderation and the same rules apply to him as well, this is what he wants and it is my job to do so.

Keep in mind, everyone is entitled to their opinion(s) and have the right to express their opinions as long as it is not insulting, demeaning, threatening, or any type of harassment. This type of behavior will not be tolerated. That being said, we are very lucky to have the great community we have, and we do have very few issues with members or guests exhibiting this type of behavior. However, sometimes people can lose their tempers, or take something personal and things can get out of hand. This is not what our community is about. It is about exchanging ideas, opinions, and facts, and to me personally the most important thing, making friends and seeing both sides of a story.

Let it be clear that we still want to be edgy, as long as it does not go too far. I was given this responsibility and privilege to help keep peace and to make sure that every member and guest feels happy, safe, and free to express their opinions related to a topic or thread without fear of retaliation from another member or guest.

This community is about audio, learning audio, friends, and fun. Again I am not the community's police officer, or Big Brother, my main purpose is to help, and I take pleasure in doing so. As I have stated before, if you have issues with another member or guest, please let me know and I will get it resolved in the most peaceful manner possible while looking at both sides of the story. There are individuals who trust my judgement, and I hope the rest of you will come to feel the same way.

On the new site, some terms will no longer be acceptable. Any racial remarks, demeaning remarks, insults, or harassment is absolutely unacceptable. Again, this is not punishment, this is in the spirit of keeping the site a friendly, safe, and fun place to be.

That being said, it is absolutely paramount that members and guests feel free to post their thoughts (provided they are not objectiveness trolls, or individuals who post hateful things towards our site or our members and guests).
I care about this site's and the new site's members and guests above all else - and I feel that every member and guest should feel safe, happy, and have fun, and not to worry about everything one says, I just ask each individual to be respectful towards others and to please respect the Rules and Guidelines of OUR new site.

~TheGame
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 25, 2015, 06:36:32 AM
"The PC Model says whenever you are asked a question, it has to be answered in a certain way. And if you don't answer it that, then it is time to attack. Let's not try to actually understand what a person is saying, just attack, attack, attack, and hopefully everyone else will look at that and realize they are never supposed to say things like that. That is what PC culture is." -- Dr. Ben Carson

We've had some of that here lately, and we'd be better off without it. If there are disagreements, let us not rush to some imaginary moral high ground. I trust that we can discuss any issue both honestly and respectfully.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: DubiousMike on September 25, 2015, 06:46:29 AM
Quick question - if I mention HF by name on chang2.0, will my post get nerfed?   :D  In all seriousness though, if anax really is being censored in shout, I can only assume we have been hacked by disgruntled HF mods intent on sowing discord among the pyrates.     

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 25, 2015, 06:55:00 AM
I have read this forum for some time but posted very little. The reason for this has been what I felt as a 'frostiness' when some replied to me. Basically, to me, it felt slightly aggressive and unfriendly. Until now, I wouldn't have said so because it would have resulted in a 'sarcastic' attack.

So, the post regarding behaviour on the forum by TheGame doesn't feel like big brother or PC to me as a relative outsider.

I haven't rested easy with Changster since the start because it has kind of prided itself in being 'edgy'. Because of that, I have posted very little here although I respect the measurements and discussions by people like Marv.

I hope the new place works out well for most, but it would be nice perhaps for some if just a little more respect was shown sometimes. For instance, even the title of the Pluto thread is pretty offensive to me and its that kind of 'humour' that has really stopped me saying anything here.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Bill-p on September 25, 2015, 06:55:32 AM
Well, I don't know what's going on, and I don't particularly support anyone in this incidence, but...

If you all are going to look at it (Anax's post and subsequent post made by TheGame) that way, here's my side of the coin:

1) Anax, either intentional/jokingly, somehow or another, made a ruckuss in the shoutbox just very recently. Retraction of his shoutbox access might have come from this.

2) If Anax was being censored in general, he would not have been able to make that post.

3) Given that interaction with Anax could create a situation much like what happened in shoutbox the other day, perhaps they are hoping for him to cool down before they issue an apology and explanation. Note that Anax is close friends with the two admins he mentioned. Or at least he is close friends with Marv.

4) Anax wrote that post after his privilege has been revoked for a total of 1 hour. (yeah, that's ONE HOUR)

5) If there was any real censorship going on, you would not have seen that post at all.

So from my side of the coin, it's looking like there is much more going on (and possibly just something between Anax and his friends), rather than what you see here.

And that is also why I have decided to just stand by and watch rather than concluding things early.

But hey, it may just be me.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 25, 2015, 09:55:48 AM
Hello CHANGSTAR Members and guests! I would like to discuss further about the Future of CHANGSTAR. Firstly, I would like to thank every single person here for making CHANGSTAR a premier site for Audiophiles and Audio enthusiasts, we have an extraordinary community of knowledgeable, friendly, and overall outstanding individuals.

That being said, to continue this tradition on the new site, I will be keeping a very close and watchful eye toward unnecessary or demeaning behavior towards other members and guests. This is not a punishment, nor is it a "Big Brother is watching" scenario - it is simply to make sure each member and guest is happy, and feels safe and an important part of the community.

Marv is not excluded from this. He is not above my Moderation and the same rules apply to him as well, this is what he wants and it is my job to do so.

Keep in mind, everyone is entitled to their opinion(s) and have the right to express their opinions as long as it is not insulting, demeaning, threatening, or any type of harassment. This type of behavior will not be tolerated. That being said, we are very lucky to have the great community we have, and we do have very few issues with members or guests exhibiting this type of behavior. However, sometimes people can lose their tempers, or take something personal and things can get out of hand. This is not what our community is about. It is about exchanging ideas, opinions, and facts, and to me personally the most important thing, making friends and seeing both sides of a story.

Let it be clear that we still want to be edgy, as long as it does not go too far. I was given this responsibility and privilege to help keep peace and to make sure that every member and guest feels happy, safe, and free to express their opinions related to a topic or thread without fear of retaliation from another member or guest.

This community is about audio, learning audio, friends, and fun. Again I am not the community's police officer, or Big Brother, my main purpose is to help, and I take pleasure in doing so. As I have stated before, if you have issues with another member or guest, please let me know and I will get it resolved in the most peaceful manner possible while looking at both sides of the story. There are individuals who trust my judgement, and I hope the rest of you will come to feel the same way.

On the new site, some terms will no longer be acceptable. Any racial remarks, demeaning remarks, insults, or harassment is absolutely unacceptable. Again, this is not punishment, this is in the spirit of keeping the site a friendly, safe, and fun place to be.

That being said, it is absolutely paramount that members and guests feel free to post their thoughts (provided they are not objectiveness trolls, or individuals who post hateful things towards our site or our members and guests).
I care about this site's and the new site's members and guests above all else - and I feel that every member and guest should feel safe, happy, and have fun, and not to worry about everything one says, I just ask each individual to be respectful towards others and to please respect the Rules and Guidelines of OUR new site.

~TheGame


I shall avoid certain topics then. I also partially understand Rabbit's position.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 25, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
I'm not trying to have a go at Changster, and I'm really not timid. I am admin on DIYAH along with Solderdude and TBH, we don't have such as what I'd call an 'abrasive' approach to people.

I think with Changster, you feel that you need to be very well armed if you review something with hard data or else you feel as though you're sticking your head out.

So in effect, there is already a kind of self-moderating that works by stopping you post anything too subjective. That's what makes it totally different in 'feel' I think and why it has this 'pyrate' nature.

By changing that, then the forum would actually change in style compared to its origins and is a matter for admin to think about really.

Pyrate so may not necessarily want those kinds of changes anywaythough, and the Changster style just isn't for me.

The graphs are terrific but I personally find discussion a bit difficult for fear of saying something wrong.

That could be what new management is trying to balance perhaps? It's although a healthy step to be actually discussing the place, I think.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 25, 2015, 12:08:09 PM
I can honestly say I personally have no idea what was going on in the shoutbox last night, as Moderator, I do not have the permissions to do certain things like that no do I have the permission to silence or censor anyone in that manner in the shoutbox - I honestly still don't know who did it. I think it was meant as a joke honestly, but I think it may have been taken the wrong way. I honestly do not know what it happened, or who did it - and I did try to find out but I do not have those types of permissions.

Anyway, the main point of all of this is to Rabbit's point. We do not want members and guests to feel intimidated to speak their minds in fear of being ridiculed or talked down to. Certain comments may have been slipped through in the past that perhaps made some people a little uncomfortable or not feel welcomed. We do not want this to be the case. We want everyone to feel safe, speak their minds, have their opinions and thoughts, without the thought of being attacked jokingly, or seriously.

Like I said, I do not know what happened with Anax last night, I thought we were hacked as another member mentioned in a post - I was unable to connect to changstar for around 4 minutes -I kept getting a "server error" message.

But if it was not a hacker, then if the person who was able to do that (which I didn't even know could be done) wants to say anything, they will.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 25, 2015, 12:11:18 PM
From espresso to espresso macchiato. A bit of milk foam to smooth over the coffee flavour.

Changstar macchiato, black coffee audio with milk foam.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Sorrodje on September 25, 2015, 12:17:53 PM

Anyway, the main point of all of this is to Rabbit's point. We do not want members and guests to feel intimidated to speak their minds in fear of being ridiculed or talked down to. Certain comments may have been slipped through in the past that perhaps made some people a little uncomfortable or not feel welcomed. We do not want this to be the case. We want everyone to feel safe, speak their minds, have their opinions and thoughts, without the thought of being attacked jokingly, or seriously.

I perfectly understand the point but if  Changstar becomes more polite and soft, it will loose the basic spirit for Piracy. As much as I hate some Anax Attitudes and as much as I can disagree with some of his opinions in Audio or in other subjects , I love to read him as much as I love to read bad jokes ( aka OJ's chingchong for the HE1000) and  politically uncorrect speaking.  A great french writer told " Even I fully disagree with you , i'll wholeheartly fight to defend your right to say what you have to say" .. something like that.

Changstar is like an old tavern with sometimes unpolite and definitely not for everyone talk & Chat. that makes this place special for me. Free speach allows creativity. There's so many different places elsewhere in audio web galaxy, why would you want to change this one in something else ?

We all know that posting here is not easy and that's why we have to think twice before posting. And that's fine like that. we're not kids after all.

Please don't transform Changstar in a wishy washy deluted retarded-friendly ghey thing. please !  Facebook and head-fi exists for that.

(French native speakers here so please forgive my english)

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: shipsupt on September 25, 2015, 12:28:03 PM
Like "TheGame" shouldn't you refer to yourself as "TheModerator" since it appears you are the one and only.  Where is the check and balance of how and what you moderate?

I can honestly say I personally have no idea what was going on in the shoutbox last night, as Moderator, I do not have the permissions to do certain things like that no do I have the permission to silence or censor anyone in that manner in the shoutbox - I honestly still don't know who did it. I think it was meant as a joke honestly, but I think it may have been taken the wrong way. I honestly do not know what it happened, or who did it - and I did try to find out but I do not have those types of permissions.

Anyway, the main point of all of this is to Rabbit's point. We do not want members and guests to feel intimidated to speak their minds in fear of being ridiculed or talked down to. Certain comments may have been slipped through in the past that perhaps made some people a little uncomfortable or not feel welcomed. We do not want this to be the case. We want everyone to feel safe, speak their minds, have their opinions and thoughts, without the thought of being attacked jokingly, or seriously.

Like I said, I do not know what happened with Anax last night, I thought we were hacked as another member mentioned in a post - I was unable to connect to changstar for around 4 minutes -I kept getting a "server error" message.

But if it was not a hacker, then if the person who was able to do that (which I didn't even know could be done) wants to say anything, they will.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 25, 2015, 12:39:09 PM
I understand and agree with what you feel Sorrodje. We definitively want to keep the spirit of CHANGSTAR alive and well - what I was referring to was stuff that is completely out-of-line and would be unacceptable to the majority of members and guests, such as a personal attack, or any remarks which would degrade or disrespect a person in an deliberate attack.

I think a lot of the things posted by the admins and myself may be taken a little bit out of context. CHANGSTAR is not going to change like it may sound, the only thing different is that some things as mentioned above will be watched more closely.

I don't want anyone to worry about CHANGSTAR becoming something other than what we love - but comments that are way-over-the-top as far as a personal attack or things of that nature will be closely watched. Debates and discussions are good and a lot of us (including myself) enjoy reading the different thoughts and opinions of others. This is meant more of a situation where if things get out of hand in a serious way, it will be dealt with, but not with an iron fist. Things will become more clear to everyone when the new site is up and running.

CHANGSTAR is not having a miracle transformation into something that it is not - this is my thoughts on things. The Admins can elaborate more if they wish as I cannot speak for them or go beyond my position as I am just Moderator, they will have to explain the more finer points. But Please do not worry about this becoming some "other" site.

These are my thoughts on things, I am not speaking for any other person other than myself. I will let they Admins explain their thoughts on this - they may be able to express it in a way I cannot.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 25, 2015, 12:47:17 PM
Like "TheGame" shouldn't you refer to yourself as "TheModerator" since it appears you are the one and only.  Where is the check and balance of how and what you moderate?

You have a point shipsupt. I am currently the only Moderator - but there are admins that have more permissions and power than me. Before I do anything at all, I always consult them first. As far as how and what I Moderate - are things I feel that maybe out of control, a personal or degrading attack on another member or guest, or something totally inappropriate. And it has to be something I believe the CHANGSTAR community as a whole would agree with. But like I said, if something major does happen (which is rare, I believe the vast majority of Members are awesome people), I always consult an admin before I take any action unless it apparently blatant, which I have not seen personally yet.

I understand what your saying and it is very difficult for me to answer your questions properly, the admins with more authority will make things more clear once we get things going. I apologize if my response isn't what you are specifically asking or if I am not answering correctly, or misunderstanding your question - I am trying to answer you the best I can. The best thing to do as far as where CHANGSTAR goes from here is to hear it from those in a higher position than me.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: shipsupt on September 25, 2015, 01:01:47 PM
This message sounds vaguely familiar... almost like "I hope you understand even if you don't agree"... do you moderate on other forums? 

You have a point shipsupt. I am currently the only Moderator - but there are admins that have more permissions and power than me. Before I do anything at all, I always consult them first. As far as how and what I Moderate - are things I feel that maybe out of control, a personal or degrading attack on another member or guest, or something totally inappropriate. And it has to be something I believe the CHANGSTAR community as a whole would agree with. But like I said, if something major does happen (which is rare, I believe the vast majority of Members are awesome people), I always consult an admin before I take any action unless it apparently blatant, which I have not seen personally yet.

I understand what your saying and it is very difficult for me to answer your questions properly, the admins with more authority will make things more clear once we get things going. I apologize if my response isn't what you are specifically asking or if I am not answering correctly, or misunderstanding your question - I am trying to answer you the best I can. The best thing to do as far as where CHANGSTAR goes from here is to hear it from those in a higher position than me.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: AustinValentine on September 25, 2015, 01:03:29 PM
I had the same server error that TheGame mentioned last night - also for around four minutes. I couldn't sleep and was searching the forums reading Black Widow impressions when *bam* site stopped working. The shoutbox shit must have gone down shortly after.

And now all of Anax's posts in the shoutbox look like a single "." to me. Fucking strange. Hope this all gets resolved soon.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: zerodeefex on September 25, 2015, 01:05:05 PM
There's too much random explanation here, hard to parse on my phone, but here's a quick and dirty update:

1) someone with server access was screwing around last night and played a joke on a couple of us. This place will have practical jokers and it won't always be me mostly due to time constraints in my life. I spent a long ass time trying to figure it out and ended up demoted for my poking around (probably as a joke, too)

2) discussions about audio and gear will remain heated and you sure as hell will have to defend yourself.

3) Marv mentioned on the phone that he's going to call me "a brown bastard" still. He just mentioned that if it was a racial slur that more than four officers complain about, he wants to keep that crap off the forums. Justin/Knerian's observations about mainlanders are still in.

4)Nothing on this forum has changed without multiple officers' points of view being taken into consideration. Marv takes all the inputs based off the context from a bunch of officers. A lot of the guys who made this place what it is have given input directly or indirectly about why they're not as present as they used to be. Those dudes and dudettes and their opinions have a meaningful impact on the choices Marv is making.

4) TheGame is new and overly verbose/feels too much like he's gotta explain stuff. Jeremy, no need to be so formal :). Don't go all HF on us. You must continue having fun.

P.S. Jeremy, your avatar freaks me out. Couldn't it be blackbeard or something?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: insidious meme on September 25, 2015, 01:07:14 PM
As I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, and seeing all sorts of behavior in a previous online community as an "insider" I won't comment much until the migration dust settles. I've seen lots of fireworks go off here, but without knowing the underlying context, I'm not jumping to any conclusions. That said, I've been okay with Anaxilus behavior, and a departure like his would be a blow based on his knowledge and expertise. But I'm used to being around aggressive types online, so I think I'm in a small minority. All IMO.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: shipsupt on September 25, 2015, 01:24:08 PM
TLDR...

Oh wait, there is something about audio buried in there somewhere... I almost missed it. I wonder if some of you (ZD) pirates have lost your way and are too focused on bullshit and have forgotten about what we started this place for!? Well that's not true, I didn't start this place, but I was around when it was just a few guys and the reason I stayed was not for all this other BS.


There's too much random explanation here, hard to parse on my phone, but here's a quick and dirty update:

1) someone with server access was screwing around last night and played a joke on a couple of us. This place will have practical jokers and it won't always be me mostly due to time constraints in my life. I spent a long ass time trying to figure it out and ended up demoted for my poking around (probably as a joke, too)

2) discussions about audio and gear will remain heated and you sure as hell will have to defend yourself.

3) Marv mentioned on the phone that he's going to call me "a brown bastard" still. He just mentioned that if it was a racial slur that more than four officers complain about, he wants to keep that crap off the forums. Justin/Knerian's observations about mainlanders are still in.

4)Nothing on this forum has changed without multiple officers' points of view being taken into consideration. Marv takes all the inputs based off the context from a bunch of officers. A lot of the guys who made this place what it is have given input directly or indirectly about why they're not as present as they used to be. Those dudes and dudettes and their opinions have a meaningful impact on the choices Marv is making.

4) TheGame is new and overly verbose/feels too much like he's gotta explain stuff. Jeremy, no need to be so formal :). Don't go all HF on us. You must continue having fun.

P.S. Jeremy, your avatar freaks me out. Couldn't it be blackbeard or something?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 25, 2015, 01:30:07 PM

1) someone with server access was screwing around last night and played a joke on a couple of us. This place will have practical jokers and it won't always be me mostly due to time constraints in my life. I spent a long ass time trying to figure it out and ended up demoted for my poking around (probably as a joke, too)


The custom titles, okay it stopped at one point. This, fuck no.

If you are demoted for "poking around" when personal conversations are sabotaged, then I need to think about this website. I know what happened on Hype-Fi in the past for asking the "wrong questions" and to call that a joke is stupid to say the least.

When the espresso macchiato has had salt added to it the practical joker can expect more than a complaint.

(http://www.accountancyage.com/IMG/883/186883/computer-not-ok-no-370x229.jpg?1311343587)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: zerodeefex on September 25, 2015, 01:42:41 PM
Yeah, right ship. The only way that'll happen is if you let it.

P.S. you're a sack of crap

DF: I'm still a mate. I'm sure I'll be epic powers again soon. I might have effed something up while poking around. Jeremy pointed out to me over email that I have been demoted but I'm still somehow an admin. I tested it out and apparently the only thing that changed was my outward facing title. This is literally someone messing with me (prob Marv).

It's easy to forget, a bunch of us are friends. Marv and I talk a lot more about things that aren't Chang than Chang. He knows he can screw around with me and I'll laugh it off.

As far as custom titles, I totally need to give tak and awesome one now.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 25, 2015, 02:34:56 PM
Just woke up. Haven't had my coffee. I need to see what happened.

BTW, what TheGame posted was probably bad timing and purely coincidental.

Don't read too much of TheGame's post. We are not going PC, to HF style censorship, etc. I can't see myself relabeling "this is garbage" as " this is rather perplexing" (although the latter does seem funnier) or ceasing the use of "that's ghey", or posing very hard questions on folks who claim only Beyer's first 1800 T1s were messed up sound wise.

Really just a couple of events / threads that I wished were stopped in their tracks in the past few months. You guys know what they are. I've been trying to push things the other way with more measurements, the stuff with the QA400/QA190...

Signal to noise ratio has been lower lately.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 25, 2015, 02:43:47 PM
Additionally, we're going to launch a formal, dedicated measurements team with Hands and Ultrabike (who IS willing) leading the charge.

My body is ready.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 25, 2015, 03:21:42 PM
I'm livid right now, so livid to point where I am calm.

There was always one rule about Changstar. Get along with others and by extension keep the peace internally by ourselves without moderation. If you guys can't do on your own accord, someone will do it for you. I would have gotten myself directly involved with more of these events, but they tend to happen in the middle of the night (or maybe because I'm not on 24x7).

TheGame got hired because he diffused a very awkward situation that I didn't know how to handle. This situation involved an IEM vendor with accusations, insinuations, and stories from different points of view. It felt like that ST:TNG episode: A Matter of Perspective.

Give me a break. If you guys are really worried that the new site will be just like HF, let me know and I will refund your money right now. My primary concern is getting the site up and running. I spent 30 extra hours on top of my regular job last week to test out platforms, and will spend another 30 extra hours this week getting the new site up and running. My contact with my family has been minimal these past two weeks.

I really don't have time for this.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 25, 2015, 03:33:12 PM
So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...

This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.

What is wrong with you people?

Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 25, 2015, 03:45:42 PM
So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...

This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.

What is wrong with you people?

Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.

I haven't been here very long, but I am really looking forward to the future plans that you have outlined here in regards to things that you'd like to do in the future. I can't find it right now, but the plan on how to use the money, headphone tours, and such all sounded really cool.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 25, 2015, 03:59:56 PM
People often seem to behave like children on the internet.  Self-important, self-entitled, myopic, the world revolves around me, disrespect for others, etc.  Maybe they are like this in real life too, idk. But something about being removed from face-to-face human interaction, and interposing a keyboard and screen between people, seems to lead to some level of dysfunctional behavior for many.

If I can offer any support, I would just say, try not to let it get to you Marv.  Remember that this site that you created has brought about an end to the dark times.  There will be childish shenanigans, but this thing you have created and are working so hard on moving forward will continue to be a beacon. Your time, hard work, effort, and stewardship really are appreciated, by me and I am certain most of the Changinators.

Cheers, and hang in there.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Tyll Hertsens on September 25, 2015, 04:02:26 PM
You're sitting there alone in your dining room, having a drink or whatnot, keyboard under tour fingertips, no one standing there ready to punch you in the face or retort aloud in your private space. It's just too easy to type out the shit that pops into your head.

First rule: Push the keyboard away if you've really nothing positive to add.

Been a part of numerous board upheavals. Wanna know what I learned? It's about the people and their motives.

Seems to me Changstar is here because we each, individually, value greatly the art of music and therefor value greatly the gear that reproduces it. HF doesn't do a very good job of evaluating (putting a value on) gear. We're here because, one would assume, we believe Changstar (or it's future name) will do a better job. Seems to me Pyrates have indeed done a better job. As long as that's the prime motive, it likely will continue to do a better job.

Off topic chat is another story. I was a moderator on a big board (ADVrider.com, about 10% smaller than Head-Fi) filled with type-A personality long-distance motorcycle riders. A wild and crazy bunch. Initially the site was small and people knew each other well. (In the ADV motorcycle world, folks get around to visit each other often.)  But as the site got bigger and bigger, the grab-assing would increasingly rankle n00bs and those not firmly embedded in the culture. Cliques started to form...if you weren't a "cool kid" you were hazed. It got so bad that occasionally someone would show up at the board owner's place of business demanding to see him and threatening legal action. Big boards are a pain in the ass.

One question is: How big should Changstar get? The Game talks of continued growth. Head-Case controls growth and keeps the feeling amongst the old timers cordial by swinging a heavy ban hammer on folks who need to be over at Head-Fi. That works for them because they don't want to grow, they just want to keep their corner bar friendly and their own. Changstar, it seems to me, is different. If it exists to be a righteous alternative to HF, then it has to do things that allow it to become that big.

It does seem to me that grab-assing and non-PC talk is, in part, the way we speak to each other in real life, and should be just fine in written form. But there is a line...a line not easily felt in the solitude and piece of your dining room table as you type words in a box. It may seem like you're just making a point, but to the other it may feel more like a pointed stick.

Remember:

Any person is about the most beautiful thing in 25 parsecs...not counting the other 9 billion people.

I've never met anyone who isn't incredibly beautiful and fatally flawed.


So, please be careful of throwing little darts with your finger tips. They do hurt, even if you don't feel them.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: shipsupt on September 25, 2015, 04:03:42 PM
Weren't you supposed to get some coffee before you started posting?

Don't take the members passion for this place as a negative.  They/we are protective because this place is "special" and we fear that change will somehow end that. 

It's that same passion that will (hopefully) make this place great as it evolves.  Pirates are grumpy. Course changes are bound to get the crew stirred up... but in time we'll all enjoy the new bounty. 

Now, get your coffee, pull up your panties, and get cracking on the new platform.  :)p4

So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...

This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.

What is wrong with you people?

Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 25, 2015, 04:11:27 PM
It does seem to me that grab-assing and non-PC talk is, in part, the way we speak to each other in real life, and should be just fine in written form. But there is a line...a line not easily felt in the solitude and piece of your dining room table as you type words in a box. It may seem like you're just making a point, but to the other it may feel more like a pointed stick.

Remember:

Any person is about the most beautiful thing in 25 parsecs...not counting the other 9 billion people.

I've never met anyone who isn't incredibly beautiful and fatally flawed.


So, please be careful of throwing little darts with your finger tips. They do hurt, even if you don't feel them.

Really well said.  Thanks Tyll.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Sorrodje on September 25, 2015, 04:13:02 PM
@shipsupt : you nailed it. Thks.  :money:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: CEE TEE on September 25, 2015, 04:15:10 PM
I came to a point where I realized that I had just donated to a site where I liked to hang out less.

Also, I realized that a group of audio friends I know and want to hang out with don't want to have anything or much to do here.

And- if you are nice in real life but talk on the internet to people like NOBODY that I would hang out with or keep in my life, I think you need to ask yourself if that's the best way to be.  There's relaxed hanging out and then there are racial slurs and needless personal attacks that are just bullying and throwing weight around.  That's not "persona".  That's persona non grata to me.

The other night I turned a corner when I stopped to think about things.  When I added up a lot of stuff, my deepest calculation was that things were not right.  Many people won't and don't abide by some of the stuff that has gone on here and they will just leave. Quietly. Good, smart, funny people with stuff to share.  I know these people.  And I have to go see them in person or contact them -around- Changstar because there is some bad juju here among the great stuff and great people.

Some of us have families, friends, jobs...things that we can't or don't want to do without.  I am not sure where you base your self-worth, but having good ears does not give you a pass to be an ass.  You may think that you have a group of friends that validate you- if nobody says that certain stuff is not acceptable in their life.  Before I walk away, I want to speak up.  We have all made real connections and built these sites and had great events and huge enjoyment from the gear and the sound.  But let's have a place where we can hold bad gear and bad actions accountable.  Quirky gear that still has it's pluses along with it's minuses is cool.  When your minuses outweigh your pluses by a longshot and you are bad for the site, we should tell you.

Treat people decently, produce something in your life, participate and get out of stuff what you put into it.  Do something for others and find out that it often surprises you by taking you to good places you never imagined.

I don't want some namby-pamby place that is okay for everyone's kids to read. But I also don't want to pollute my mind and waste my time. 

I have some ideas that I think are good reference modules for everyone, but I hope I am going to be motivated to create them and pass them around for some editing and contributions. 

I am loving my music with my rigs. I hope we all are or let's help you put together one.  I didn't do mine by myself and I thank the ton of people who helped me. I like to think that I added to their lives and helped them in some way too. That's how I go into this.     
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 25, 2015, 04:18:50 PM
And- if you are nice in real life but talk on the internet to people like NOBODY that I would hang out with or keep in my life, I think you need to ask yourself if that's the best way to be.  There's relaxed hanging out and then there are racial slurs and needless personal attacks that are just bullying and throwing weight around.  That's not "persona".  That's persona non grata to me.

Bingo.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 25, 2015, 04:39:14 PM
Some of us have families, friends, jobs...things that we can't or don't want to do without.  I am not sure where you base your self-worth, but having good ears does not give you a pass to be an ass.  You may think that you have a group of friends that validate you- if nobody says that certain stuff is not acceptable in their life.  Before I walk away, I want to speak up.  We have all made real connections and built these sites and had great events and huge enjoyment from the gear and the sound.  But let's have a place where we can hold bad gear and bad actions accountable.  Quirky gear that still has it's pluses along with it's minuses is cool.  When your minuses outweigh your pluses by a longshot and you are bad for the site, we should tell you.

Also this ^^.  Well said.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 25, 2015, 04:54:09 PM
Where ever I have worked, I have always sought to improve things, to improve process. Looking at how others did things. Running this site is not any different. This is a good time for change.

There are things that I really like about the site: the in-depth analysis, the measurements, the weaving in of the subjective, the experience of many, the disagreements (on audio gear). Now there are things I don't like about the site... the meltdowns. And there are the funny un-PC things that make this site what it is.

It's all context. OJ's guide on headphones where he labeled the HEK "Ching Chong"... really pushing it, but I'm OK with it. I even gave that post a tacit OK with a follow up statement. It was funny. I'm mostly ethnically Chinese, and I think we need to be able to laugh about certain things sometimes. Now the random: "Jew" "Jew" "Jew". Umm, that might not be appropriate at the new site.

You guys want to know what sites I really like? Vinyl Engine and Steve Hoffman. I would like the new site to be somewhere in between what Changstar is like right now and those sites (minus all the meltdowns.)

I don't think there's anything wrong with these guidelines: 1) Try to be nice; and 2) Don't be an asshat.

For those who are worried about the gentrification of the new site, closely examine those words above and you'll understand that we really won't be much different.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Skyline on September 25, 2015, 05:46:46 PM
So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...

This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.

What is wrong with you people?

Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.


Marv, I was pretty annoyed reading all the posts, too.  People get their panties in a wad over the dumbest things.

Don't let it get you down, though.  It's pretty obvious what you're trying to accomplish here, and I'm very appreciative of your efforts.

If people want a place where they can say whatever they want, be rude to others, and make people feel intimidated, then they can go make their own sites and have fun with that. 

At the end of the day, they'll likely be there by themselves. 
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 25, 2015, 05:52:41 PM
Honestly I don't think that Changstar has a problem with political incorrectness, irreverence, and passion.  I don't think anyone needs to worry about that going away or changing much. And I don't think that is what this is all about.

The problem is that there really are, for real, some people who don't know the difference between passion, argument, off-color, etc, vs abusive. Some people here think that attacking someone with personal insults is all a part of normal, heated argument.  They defend their own behavior as such.

Here is a hypothetical exchange to try to make this point:

[person x]:  "I think that <insert controversial political opinion here>" (examples:  "Hillary is the best/worst, guns are good/bad, abortion is right/wrong, Justin Bieber is so hot and and I want to bear his children and I like the way he dances doesn't everyone zomg)"

Now here are two possible replies:

[person y] "Wow, I don't get how you can even go there.  I really strongly disagree with this because my values are such that [insert some value proposition contrary to person x]. Doesn't it bother you that this could lead to a whole nation of Bieber fans and the downfall of Western Civilization?? Oh too late."

OR:

[person y] "Wow, you are so frickin' stupid.  Don't you have a logical bone in your body?  Go back to school and learn how to think.  And while you are at it why don't you fuck yourself with a chainsaw, asshole. In your asshole, in case I wasn't clear.  Oh yeah, and because... cuz, HITLER!!"

Some people truly think that the 2nd example is justifiable and part of passionate discussion.  It's this inability to distinguish that I think is why change is necessary.  Some people don't get it.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Azteca X on September 25, 2015, 06:36:02 PM
There are many times where I will take a glance at the Shoutbox and promptly close out of the site, or read that one thread I am following, because I just don't want to wade into it. People keep invoking "freedom of speech" but this is a community on a privately-owned website. If you disrupt the discussions and bonds necessary to form a pleasant community that serves the members as a whole, you are not helping. Sure, speaking your mind about topics outside of audio can contribute to building a community, but if you speak your mind in such a manner that you discourage others (and this is regular others, not oddball fringe cases) from participating, you are taking away more than you are giving. And to be quite frank, I do not come to a headphone-audio-centered site to discuss abortion, or whether or not we are too "PC," or whether Mexican immigrants are ruining the country, or any other group of immigrants is ruining the country, or whether or not we should be in Iraq blah blah....I read newspaper articles, I have a Facebook where I can link to things and comment, I have pals I can discuss things with at the local watering hole or their place. I am not someone who wears blinders and doesn't want to encounter other people's opinions. Still, when your opinions are extreme and involve what many consider a dehumanizing approach to the world, you are making people like me say "I don't need this. I come here to talk shop about audio and music, maybe crack a joke or two about someone's taste. I have enough nonsense and blowhards in the real world, I'll pass."
Whoever talked about saying things you would not say in real life, that's exactly it. And maybe Mike or the others who can react with hostility would speak just the same face-to-face. But you know what? I wouldn't want to stay at a bar where some guy is trying to coax me into an argument or shouting match about subjects that carry a lot of emotional resonance or are extremely polarizing. If someone was doing that at a party I was hosting, I'd tell them to cool it and then I'd tell them to leave. They very well might scream "censorship, political correctness, fascism!" as I walk them towards the door, but guess what? They can still say whatever the hell they want on the street, in their home, whatever. Just not in my home, and preferably not where I like to spend my time. If it gets to be too much, that place will no longer be where I wish to spend my time.
If people want to discuss political issues so badly, they should consider joining a political board, or using Twitter to speak with journalists, policy wonks and the like (as I do on occasion), or engaging folks on Facebook.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: frenchbat on September 25, 2015, 07:03:02 PM
Marv' if I didn't think this community was able to pull together towards a cool place, I wouldn't have contributed. I won't add anything over what's been said before as there are some points I share.

People are always afraid of change at first. Don't pay attention to this knee-jerk reaction and keep going. When we don't go forward, we start going back.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 25, 2015, 07:10:57 PM
All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: jexby on September 25, 2015, 07:32:27 PM
Hands is obviously eager for a good
 :spank:
now and then.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: thegunner100 on September 25, 2015, 07:36:23 PM
All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.

 walk the plank2
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Skyline on September 25, 2015, 07:41:52 PM
One last thing I'll add.

I know a lot of good and knowledgeable people who are interested by Changstar, but stay away due to the negative vibe certain people create.  Some of it is misconception on their part, but perception is reality after all.   

I hope this will bring them in.  They're some of the "good" ones from Head-Fi that I think could contribute positively. 
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 25, 2015, 07:41:58 PM
Hands is obviously eager for a good
 :spank:
now and then.

RMAF, Saturday, 1PM, right? ;)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 25, 2015, 07:44:08 PM
I just got caught up on this post and wow.  We literally six or seven days ago banded together as a community to help save Changstar and Marv out.  Like seriously when is it ok to make racist/demeaning/inappropriate comments to your fellow members.  I don't care who you are or if you have been here since the beginning honestly no one should be subjected to that.  I understand this is the internet but guys this certainly isn't xbox where everyone is just shouting over one another and see who can be more offensive.

Marv to have you and other admins here 24/7 to "babysit" people who don't know how to treat others makes this like a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th job.  Just ban them and move on.  It's sad to see people get booted out but really everyone in our community should know how to treat and respect one another. Also a debate doesn't mean state your point someone calls you out and you call that person a moron.  Debates are both objective and subjective and should stay on task.  Not turn into a insultfest.  Come on guys just common sense.

This community whether members like it or not is going to grow (it's inevitable).  We are getting a new site whether you like it or not.  You can be afraid of that all you want but people like myself want more knowledge than what is provided on other sites.  We come here because we are of like mind and want to pool our ideas together.  If you lost what you are here for then just leave but please don't make it your playpen to cause issues.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: jexby on September 25, 2015, 07:46:57 PM
RMAF, Saturday, 1PM, right? ;)

By the gods there will be no moderation or spanking at the Pyrate RMAF lunch!
Just grog and good times!

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 25, 2015, 07:57:37 PM

OR:

[person y] "Wow, you are so frickin' stupid.  Don't you have a logical bone in your body?  Go back to school and learn how to think.  And while you are at it why don't you fuck yourself with a chainsaw, asshole. In your asshole, in case I wasn't clear.  Oh yeah, and because... cuz, HITLER!!"

Some people truly think that the 2nd example is justifiable and part of passionate discussion.  It's this inability to distinguish that I think is why change is necessary.  Some people don't get it.


That's exactly how I feel. There's almost a kind of 'pride' in how tart the replies can be sometimes. I hear that many Pyrates are actually 'pussycats' at the meets and also don't resemble their online persona.

All I can say is thank goodness it's not for real then!! ;)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: OJneg on September 25, 2015, 08:12:04 PM
Since a few people have brought it up I'd like to apologize for the use of "ching chong" in that guide if people did in fact take it the wrong way. I think it was a misunderstanding as I was trying to highlight what I consider to be the gaudy Chinese nu-money aesthetics of the HE1000. As well as the softer, more romantic Chinese sound it delivers

I hate to use the "I have a black friend" defense, but I live in one of the most Asian populated areas in the US. And I went to the most Asian university on the west coast. I count many folks of Asian descent amoung my friends including Marv and others. It's times likes these where I feel the need to tap into my inner Asian and recenter my Zen as there's a lot of misunderstanding and hysteria going around right now. I think we should all take a real deep breath before jumping to conclusions about where the site is headed and what Marv has in mind for the future.

I cannot promise to be politically correct in the future, and I know that is not what this new site is going to be. But I do my best to keep any race, gender, etc. jokes as non-personal as possible. For those with acute sensitivities to such things I would ask you to be sensitive to my need to make such jokes. If that makes sense.

I am also guilty of a few meltdowns. All I can say is that I have reached out to personally apologize when my temper cools back down. I realize that does not excuse the behavior. I suppose there's something about internet forums that can bring out the worst in us. I put faith in our friendships to keep us together.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: CEE TEE on September 25, 2015, 08:24:00 PM
^Thank you.  :)p6
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Bill-p on September 25, 2015, 09:01:50 PM
^Will you still be thanking him when the influence of the new site causes me to turn into a huge green version of myself? :P

I suppose there's something about internet forums that can bring out the worst in us.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 25, 2015, 09:05:25 PM
Great post oj
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 25, 2015, 10:18:25 PM
It can be easy to rationalize argumentative douchebaggery, I can sympathize with Anax since I've done some the same things on CS. I've linked to the following essay before and it seems a propos to do so again now: http://davidgerard.co.uk/fuckhead.html

This seems like a good opportunity to make a concerted effort to minimize belligerence. I'll make sure to remind myself not to act like a fuckhead should the urge arise.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: imac2much on September 25, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
As an Asian American currently living in China, I actually found OJ's diagram hilarious.  Living here, it's amazing to look at the fashion sense of the uber-wealthy older generation.  Whether we're talking about furniture or clothing, the wealthy seem to gravitate toward the gaudy and ostentatious.  I just find it hilarious that Hifiman's idea of "high-class" brought us the horribly ugly design and colors of the HE-1000.  (Ironically, the HE1K still isn't for sale in China, supposedly due to fears that it will be copied and sold for cheaper within months)

Then again, I can understand how some people may be offended by "Ching Chong."  I moved to the US when I was quite young, and my school didn't have too many Asians at the time so I was called plenty of names.  By middle school, things toned down of course, but I'll never forget the name calling my sister and I were subjected to at the time.  We can laugh about it now, but those definitely weren't fun times.

Perhaps we can still retain the spirit of irreverence without the name-calling?  Instead of "Ching Chong," something like "China's idea of high-class" or something.  Not as catchy, but still :)

As for the abrasiveness of certain people, I've actually talked to several people both via PM on H-F and via e-mail regarding this site.  Many of us are bothered by the hype train and Jude's Iron Fist on H-F, so we either lurk or occasionally post here instead.  I absolutely love Changstar even if I don't post here enough.  Honestly, I don't post much because I'm worried I will say something "wrong" and get attacked.  Maybe this isn't rational, and I know most veterans wouldn't do this, but there are one or two who I've seen do exactly that without any fear of retribution.

Okay, okay, so some people here have golden ears and more experience in the audio world than I will ever have my entire life.  That doesn't make it acceptable for them to push their political and sociological views on others and then call us idiots for not agreeing.  It's just one of those things that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, regardless of how much I like these forums.  I echo CEE TEE's views on treating each other online how you would treat us in real life.  It's a good rule of thumb to follow anywhere on the internet :)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 25, 2015, 10:57:59 PM
I simply have to trust the founding members to do what is best for Changstar.

This little oasis in an ocean of nothingness has a good captain.

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 26, 2015, 12:55:27 AM
Here's a fairly simple proposal we should consider:

Whilst I and some others enjoy discussing politics, there are clearly members who don't. Maybe we need to place their wishes first. As much as I enjoy hearing what folks here think about the issues of the day, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Head-Fi (and I don't relish comparing us to Head-Fi) has a No Politics rule, and it works. This might require a bit of an adjustment on the part of some of us, but it's worth considering at this juncture.

It means no more posts/shouts like this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042)

But also no more posts/shouts like this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957)

Or even this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577)

Politics-free means you only discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.

I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kothganesh on September 26, 2015, 01:18:10 AM
All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.
Hands you finally got the TP from TheGame  :)p13
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 26, 2015, 01:22:38 AM
Saturday, 1PM, right?

Yes, same time as usual Hands  ;D
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 01:29:13 AM
Here's a fairly simple proposal we should consider:

Whilst I and some others enjoy discussing politics, there are clearly members who don't. Maybe we need to place their wishes first. As much as I enjoy hearing what folks here think about the issues of the day, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Head-Fi (and I don't relish comparing us to Head-Fi) has a No Politics rule, and it works. This might require a bit of an adjustment on the part of some of us, but it's worth considering at this juncture.

It means no more posts/shouts like this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042)

But also no more posts/shouts like this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957)

Or even this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577)

Politics-free means you only discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.

I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?

I think many things. For the coming time I shall avoid certain topics.

Some people like their espresso puro. Others want less espresso and more milk and/or sugar. Expect more silence and metaphors from me.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hands on September 26, 2015, 01:32:42 AM
Yes, same time as usual Hands  ;D

 :-* :spank: headbang p:3 :-*
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 26, 2015, 01:32:47 AM
Quote from: Claritas link=topic=2853.msg83906#msg83906 date=1443228927
Politics-free means you [i
only[/i] discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.

I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?

I actually think it's a good idea. This is supposed to be an audio forum. I like how on Steve Hoffman they can talk about the Colbert show and stay on topic about the quality of the show without descending into politics.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 26, 2015, 01:43:29 AM
I actually think it's a good idea. This is supposed to be an audio forum. I like how on Steve Hoffman they can talk about the Colbert show and stay on topic about the quality of the show without descending into politics.

I think this is more of the point.  I don't think the goal is to silence everyone or prevent people from cracking jokes it's more about being able to have a conversation without it turning into something blown up or super offensive.  Like I said we are all apart of this audio community and it's important that we respect one another.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 26, 2015, 01:51:46 AM
Here's a fairly simple proposal we should consider:

Whilst I and some others enjoy discussing politics, there are clearly members who don't. Maybe we need to place their wishes first. As much as I enjoy hearing what folks here think about the issues of the day, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Head-Fi (and I don't relish comparing us to Head-Fi) has a No Politics rule, and it works. This might require a bit of an adjustment on the part of some of us, but it's worth considering at this juncture.

It means no more posts/shouts like this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2626.msg75042.html#msg75042)

But also no more posts/shouts like this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1671.msg51957.html#msg51957)

Or even this:

http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577 (http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2853.msg82577.html#msg82577)

Politics-free means you only discuss politics somewhere private. It doesn't mean that some opinions are A-OK but others are silenced.

I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?

One thing we certainly shouldn't tolerate on the new forum is homophobia. If a gay member of the forum decides to get married and makes a public announcement about it, please don't use that as an excuse to grumble.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: OJneg on September 26, 2015, 02:13:03 AM
It really has nothing to do with "silencing" one side of the argument. It's about one side of the argument consistently crossing the line with their rhetoric and creating a negative environment.

Claritas, you've always been great about keeping your cool and I appreciate that even though I personally disagree with a lot of your beliefs. There have been instances where I've felt unfounded insults have been slung towards you by others and, as you say, that's not cool either. Kudos to you for taking things in stride though.

"Banning" political discussion might work. It's likely to creep in anyway. The important responsibility lies on all of us on a personal level. So long as we all maintain a certain level of detachment and respect for each other and the issues at hand, we're golden.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 26, 2015, 02:34:19 AM
It really has nothing to do with "silencing" one side of the argument. It's about one side of the argument consistently crossing the line with their rhetoric and creating a negative environment.

Claritas, you've always been great about keeping your cool and I appreciate that even though I personally disagree with a lot of your beliefs. There have been instances where I've felt unfounded insults have been slung towards you by others and, as you say, that's not cool either. Kudos to you for taking things in stride though.

"Banning" political discussion might work. It's likely to creep in anyway. The important responsibility lies on all of us on a personal level. So long as we all maintain a certain level of detachment and respect for each other and the issues at hand, we're golden.

^^ this
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: fishski13 on September 26, 2015, 02:39:24 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/Xe6nybO.jpg)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: AustinValentine on September 26, 2015, 02:40:35 AM
I'd appreciate your feedback either way, especially from those who regularly comment on politics (Anax, Austin, burns, Dave, DF, kap, Kunlun, Marv, OJ, tode et al.). What do you think?

I remember the first thing that I said to Anax in the shoutbox: "Hey, I'm not going to argue here. I get paid to argue." That didn't last very long, mostly because this forum is inhabited by a group of diverse, interesting people.

That being said: The audio hobby is my escape from all of my day-to-day work life that is all politics, all the time. If politics were verboten on Changstar 2.0, I'm not sure that I'd be sad about that. None of us signed up and joined Changstar because of the politics.

I think CEE TEE gets it dead on when he wrote:
Quote from: CEE TEE
"I am loving my music with my rigs. I hope we all are or let's help you put together one.  I didn't do mine by myself and I thank the ton of people who helped me. I like to think that I added to their lives and helped them in some way too. That's how I go into this."

When someone signs up for any audio forum, they've already learned one vital thing about the personal audio hobby: if you try to go it alone you're going to end up worse off in every way than if worked with others. When someone signs up and participates specifically here at Changstar, then they've learned an important correlative: you'll get better results if you work with others that are honest about what they hear.

As long as the latter still remains true in Changstar 2.0, then they'll be plenty of things to argue about. But those arguments will contribute something to the digital audio commons. The audio arguments on Changstar collectively comprise a resource that is IMO just as important as the measurements hosted on this site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 02:47:45 AM
It really has nothing to do with "silencing" one side of the argument. It's about one side of the argument consistently crossing the line with their rhetoric and creating a negative environment.

I disagree. Some people like their coffee fresh and black for an intense taste. Some people want less coffee and more frills and additional flavours so they go to a coffee place to pay being in that coffee place.

A strong argument has context and can stand on its own. Reduce context, add frills and additional flavouring and you might as well throw out the coffee beans and throw in much sugar and caffeine flavour if still desired.

Add to that that sometimes people find mentioning a topic, doubt or disagreement enough to declare "negative environment." This term is so subjective that like the word "neutral" I avoid it. Recently I had to deal with a person who found disagreement equal to "so you are against me" while I simply wanted to think things over. In the end I tried to stay polite while the other person resorted to behaving like a hooligan (, literally). I cut short the conversation, stated my limits and ended the conversation.

If you want to discuss certain topics with me or someone else I insist on PMs.

P.S. I am enjoying a fresh dark roast black coffee à la French press right now, cheers!

P.P.S. Fiski13, that comb over is gloriously trumped.     
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Azteca X on September 26, 2015, 03:00:16 AM
I think that's a really sloppy comparison. We aren't here for coffee to begin with and you can drink whatever you want.

I'd be fine with no politics. Marv's Colbert example is great. We are all still people with our own views, I just don't see the value in opening Pandora's box constantly, especially when there are enough divisive topics in audio alone.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 26, 2015, 03:13:00 AM
I think the discussion to discuss politics is already falling apart.  If you look at Changstar 1.0, it's not like we're talking about amps and measurements and things get personal and people start calling each other libtards and commies. 

There are sub-forums specifically for off-topic (non-audio) discussion, and heated discussions usually stay there.  If in an audio thread someone throws out a passive-aggressive jab, as long as it stays ignored, it usually dies.  When things do veer off topic, they usually are broken off into another thread by a mod.  I don't see why that can't continue.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 03:19:15 AM
Actually I was just involved in a conversation regarding cable length for headphones. Some people prefer 2 meters or around 6 feet and some people prefer 1.2 meter or about 4 feet.

I just had a sip of water. Who says you have to drink coffee? "Cheers!" applies to many beverages. Buenas noches.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 26, 2015, 03:22:04 AM
One thing we certainly shouldn't tolerate on the new forum is homophobia. If a gay member of the forum decides to get married and makes a public announcement about it, please don't use that as an excuse to grumble.

It's pretty important that we don't make people who are here for the audio feel unwelcome due to hatred. Hatred politely expressed is still hatred. People often confuse tone for genuine civility.

And yes, hatred should be silenced, either through moderation or the people who express it should be told to fuck off. Just putting it in the TOS that there's no bigotry due to race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., would solve a lot of problems. The political stuff aside from that can get moderated if it flares up too much and it'll cease to be a problem. Expressions of hatred or bias against a group of people aside, I think it's only when people so identify with whatever cause that they take it personally when people disagree that there are problems.

I guess people have taken it personally when other people didn't like their headphone obsession of the month AS MUCH (lacking the required zeal) and flipped out. Music Birded might be the term for that. So, there's always something.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 26, 2015, 03:40:19 AM
Okay, how about no hatred, other politics is fine in small doses, but if you freak out or get weird TheGame will lock you in the Petting Zoo (this will apply to all people)?

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 03:44:40 AM
TheGame has a petting zoo?

Have you been there?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 26, 2015, 03:49:15 AM
He will, oh, how he will.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 03:54:26 AM
He will, oh, how he will.

I hope he will play some Bartok, Zappa and Liquid Tension Experiment among others. That would be pleasant.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 26, 2015, 03:59:53 AM
I hope he will play some Bartok, Zappa and Liquid Tension Experiment among others. That would be pleasant.

Oh you can bet I will =) Love them!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kevin on September 26, 2015, 04:03:19 AM
And yes, hatred should be silenced, either through moderation or the people who express it should be told to fuck off. Just putting it in the TOS that there's no bigotry due to race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., would solve a lot of problems.

How do you define hatred? Labeling certain opinions as "hatred" or "bigotry" in order to silence the people holding those opinions can be a problem.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 26, 2015, 04:13:10 AM
It's pretty important that we don't make people who are here for the audio feel unwelcome due to hatred. Hatred politely expressed is still hatred. People often confuse tone for genuine civility.

And yes, hatred should be silenced, either through moderation or the people who express it should be told to fuck off. Just putting it in the TOS that there's no bigotry due to race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., would solve a lot of problems. The political stuff aside from that can get moderated if it flares up too much and it'll cease to be a problem.

I'm proposing a compromise in which both sides walk away from all political discussion. You're insisting that we should be allowed to have only some sorts of political discussions, but other sorts must be censored because they happen to offend you. No Politics is No Politics. Not Kunlun gets to celebrate homosexuality, but Claritas gets told to fuck off for considering homosexuality suboptimal because "Hatred!" That's no compromise at all.

Alternatively, we can have a No Politics rule; and also have a special subforum for politics and the like to discuss any issue so long as everyone keeps it civil. Maybe we can eat our cake and have it too.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 04:26:36 AM
I'm proposing a compromise in which both sides walk away from all political discussion. You're insisting that we should be allowed to have only some sorts of political discussions, but other sorts must be censored because they happen to offend you. No Politics is No Politics. Not Kunlun gets to celebrate homosexuality, but Claritas gets told to fuck off for considering homosexuality suboptimal because "Hatred!" That's no compromise at all.

Alternatively, we can have a No Politics rule; and also have a special subforum for politics and the like to discuss any issue so long as everyone keeps it civil. Maybe we can eat our cake and have it too.

I mentioned drinking a fresh coffee and said "Cheers!" and that was enough to provoke one person.

I remain silent.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 26, 2015, 04:54:36 AM
How do you define hatred? Labeling certain opinions as "hatred" or "bigotry" in order to silence the people holding those opinions can be a problem.


Yeah, but that's kind of the very reason that we label certain hateful and bigoted opinions as they are.

Regardless, there's no thought police, whatever prejudices one holds are one's own. Just don't use them as an excuse for harassment.

On the other hand I don't see pirates becoming soft on bad gear or bad designers any time soon. For instance, I think Empirical Audio is a crock and Nugent is inventing solutions to problems which don't matter. I'm not going to imply things about Nugent's mother's promiscuity, but I sure as hell would call him out on his work.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: zerodeefex on September 26, 2015, 04:56:44 AM
You guys are overthinking things right now.

Marv and team have been talking about rules for the new forum and refining them. Right now, we will launch with a small set that are clear, simple, and useful. These are not commandments from on high engraved on tablets of stone. As new rules are necessary, they will be drafted, vetted by the team, and communicated clearly to the community. New rules will NOT be added frivolously.

One thing I've learned launching a lot of products: if you over-engineer the rules that will keep your product/business going after launch, you WILL have to go back and rip it all out to address your actual needs once you see how things work in practice. It's better to create flexible, simple infrastructure and build on it once you're up and running.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 26, 2015, 05:09:46 AM
If a gay member of the forum decides to get married and makes a public announcement about it, please don't use that as an excuse to grumble.

If there's a No Politics rule and the person adheres to it in his announcement, I'll congratulate him as I would anyone else I know. Don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kevin on September 26, 2015, 06:02:30 AM
Yeah, but that's kind of the very reason that we label certain hateful and bigoted opinions as they are.
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: anetode on September 26, 2015, 07:08:55 AM
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.


If those arguments are based on hatred and bigotry, then yes. Repressing dissent in that case would mean taking a stance against hatred and bigotry, which is fairly well-reasoned conventional wisdom in every social environment.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: imac2much on September 26, 2015, 07:12:00 AM
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.

While there's certainly some truth to this, I find it a bit too simplistic.  Even today Finnish nationalists dressed in KKK garb harrassed a bus of immigrants - is it wrong to call this behavior "hatred" or "bigotry"? 

Regardless, I certainly don't come to an audio forum to argue about politics with strangers who refuse to believe any dissenting opinion holds an ounce of merit.  I might be wrong, but I'd assume the majority of people feel the same way.  I don't really understand how banning these flame wars or relegating them to an off-topic forum will detract from what made Changstar great in the first place - frank opinions and analyses of audio equipment/experiences without fear of angering sponsors or biased moderators.

This is reminding me too much of the fiasco with Aris in the Fighting Game community last year.  He was caught on live stream constantly disparaging and sexually harrassing female players; when confronted, he defended himself and said that racial slurs and sexual discrimination is what makes the FGC what it is.  He believed that changing ANYTHING would destroy the community.

Last I heard, the FGC is getting rid of all that junk and doing just fine anyway.  We likewise should focus on what's essential instead of getting hung up on the periphery.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 26, 2015, 07:48:02 AM
Nah, the reason that certain opinions are labeled as such is to repress dissent. It's a tactic people use to avoid arguments that may require them to challenge the conventional wisdom of their social environment.

I think one needs to avoid generalizations, and look at specifics. 
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 26, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
I love a good argument. Farting in somebody's face is not good argument, nor is crapping on their shoes.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
(http://criticalvoter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Monty-Python-Argument-Sketch.jpg)

Something like this?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 26, 2015, 01:59:48 PM
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12036959_930340837038016_3451113538728304289_n.jpg?oh=c039f8f3aa6470332874c7ab95d89243&oe=56942A0D)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 02:32:27 PM
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12036959_930340837038016_3451113538728304289_n.jpg?oh=c039f8f3aa6470332874c7ab95d89243&oe=56942A0D)

His work "The Age Of Reason" is on my bookshelf. I partially read the book. When you reference Thomas Paine and his "reason" you open the thorough criticism and analysis that even the founding fathers at one point tried to brush away. Paine's reason was so sharp that even religion was blasted to bits. He was liked for his catchy statements in his time but his thoroughness was not always appreciated by the public. He was painfully thorough in his critical analyses.

He was and is one of the most interesting people from the Enlightenment Period.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 26, 2015, 04:20:33 PM
Something like this?


My last boss reminded me so much of that sketch that I would sometimes ask him if it was the five-minute or the half-hour that he was expecting.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 26, 2015, 04:27:39 PM
Farting in somebody's face is not good argument

Huh, huhhh... huhh, he said "farting".
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kothganesh on September 26, 2015, 04:35:59 PM
Ignore Thad, he's a harmless ex-hippie  :D
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kevin on September 26, 2015, 06:41:36 PM
If those arguments are based on hatred and bigotry, then yes. Repressing dissent in that case would mean taking a stance against hatred and bigotry, which is fairly well-reasoned conventional wisdom in every social environment.

The problem I have with this is: who gets to define an opinion as hatred and bigotry? In the current version of US progressive conventional wisdom anyone opposing same sex marriage or illegal immigration is called a hater and a bigot.

In other countries people supporting these policies are labeled as traitors and charged with supporting child abuse.   
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: velvetx on September 26, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
The problem I have with this is: who gets to define an opinion as hatred and bigotry? In the current version of US progressive conventional wisdom anyone opposing same sex marriage or illegal immigration is called a hater and a bigot.

In other countries people supporting these policies are labeled as traitors and charged with supporting child abuse.   


I assume the admins would be the ones to decide with all their wisdom and all.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Psalmanazar on September 26, 2015, 07:17:00 PM
As someone who comes from the heavy metal world, stop being fucking children. The Aris fighting game thing was hilarious. So he's a fat horny nerd with no idea how to talk to women in a room of nerds? Have you ever heard anyone trash talk in the park over a chess game? Same thing. The most hilarious are the idiots who want to censor metal. It's a music genre founded by nerds spazzing out on guitar; evil rage filled guitar geeks. Maybe trying neuter a culture founded on being evil bastards into liberal political correctness isn't the best idea? Even the old school metal guys who were vaguely leftist were out there; Carcass had a "Humans are meat too!" philosophy with lyrics about well "Exhume to Consume" and "Vomited Anal Tract." Then you guys who hang out at the library and wear Seinfeld pirate shirts coexisting with skinheads shrieking about nature, transcendence, and "Flogging the Cargo." Is anyone surprised that a woman who tried to steal beer from the band at a metal show got punched in the face?

I would hate for Changstar to lose its brusque honest nature due to making white knighting, man baby, social justice warriors cry. The Headphone flowchart thread was one of the reasons I stopped lurking and joined the site. Sometimes a off color joke is what you need. Saying "Gaudy aesthetics of the Chinese nouveau riche" is not the bullet to the back of the skull adjective that "Ching chong" is.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Artasia on September 26, 2015, 07:21:41 PM
The problem I have with this is: who gets to define an opinion as hatred and bigotry? In the current version of US progressive conventional wisdom anyone opposing same sex marriage or illegal immigration is called a hater and a bigot.

In other countries people supporting these policies are labeled as traitors and charged with supporting child abuse.   



What does the issue of same-sex marriage have to do with audio? All of this talk of freedom and liberty and you want to shove your nose in the business of sexual choice, here amongst headphone-enthusiasts? Since you want a definition of hatred, allow me to ask what you mean by liberty? Liberty for whom? It is quite clear that none of this is relevant anyways.

Edit: I forgot to add that most of those countries you mentioned which feel the need to curtail private matters of sexual orientation in your final statement are well known for having less freedom and liberty than others. This would not apply to most European countries, for instance. To publicly proclaim queerness so that all can hear and recognize it, this signposting, seems as irrational/annoying as privately invading the domestic space of the bedroom to establish sexual regulations. Again, I am not sure what any of this has to do with audio. Where I agree with several posters is that throwing words around like ghey in relation to bad gear should probably not cause as much offense as it does with some people. What is absurd is when doing so pivots the discussion into a hotbed of political debate irresolvable on an audio forum. It might make sense for there to be a place for those tangents in a seperate location just as the Audio Science forum is set off from other threads on head-fi, as much as it pains me to draw inspiration from the competing site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Psalmanazar on September 26, 2015, 07:32:42 PM

What does the issue of same-sex marriage have to do with audio? All of this talk of freedom and liberty and you want to limit freedom, here amongst headphone-enthusiasts? Since you want a definition of hatred, allow me to ask what you mean by liberty? Liberty for whom? It is quite clear that none of this is relevant anyways.
Free speech should be free. The right has the same rights as the left.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 26, 2015, 08:39:33 PM
Well this discussion has certainly went way off topic.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 26, 2015, 08:46:26 PM
Free speech should be free. The right has the same rights as the left.

What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah you can say whatever you want in your own home. You can say what you want to say on the corner of the street. You can write it in a book and try to get it published. You have the right to do all kinds of shit with your opinions. You do NOT however have the right to express your opinion NO MATTER the setting. For example if you're employed by a company as a flight stewardess, you do NOT have the right to express your opinion about african-americans/jews/mexicans/arabs/whatever being subhuman in front of the passengers during the flight. You do NOT have the right to rant about same-sex marriage. If you do, your employer has EVERY right to sanction or fire you. The same thing applies to an internet forum set up and paid for by a private individual. He puts in the work and money, its his place, he sets the rules. This is a forum for audio conversation. If the owner of the site does not want you to talk about politics he has EVERY right to ban you from his private site. Hell if he wants to run a site where you're only allowed to be supportive of same-sex marriage he's allowed to have it his way. What the fuck do you kind of people not understand about that simple concept? If I let you into my house I have EVERY right to throw you out of my house if I dont like what you're doing, no matter if you have the constitutional right to do it. Hell if I dont like the color of your shoes I have every right to throw you out of my house based on that triviality. This DOES NOT infringe on your right to wear whatever colored shoes you like - just not in every setting.

My god I swear, every single fucking time a company censors an employee for ranting stupid right-wing shit (thats usually what it is, other instances surely exist) all the retards come out of the woodwork screaming 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' - Morons, freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. A few months ago the UFC fighter Yoel Romero won his fight and used his post-fight interview time to rant about gay marriage and JEEEEEEEEEESUS. After that the UFC told him not to do that kind of shit again. They pay his salary, they pay for the airtime, and they want him to represent the company in a certain way. They have EVERY right to instruct him how to behave as an employee on the airtime they have paid for. Masses of right-wingers took the opportunity to air their grievances about 'political correctness' and 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!!'; issues they didnt understand the first thing about.

Hell if I go into some stinking bar in Bumfuck, Alabama and start ranting about how god is not real, private citizens shouldnt own fucking armories and how Donald Trump may just not be the ideal candidate for president, I would fully expect to be shown the door by some inbred barowner. And he would have every right to set the rules of speech in his private business.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Psalmanazar on September 26, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah you can say whatever you want in your own home. You can say what you want to say on the corner of the street. You can write it in a book and try to get it published. You have the right to do all kinds of shit with your opinions. You do NOT however have the right to express your opinion NO MATTER the setting. For example if you're employed by a company as a flight stewardess, you do NOT have the right to express your opinion about african-americans/jews/mexicans/arabs/whatever being subhuman in front of the passengers during the flight. You do NOT have the right to rant about same-sex marriage. If you do, your employer has EVERY right to sanction or fire you. The same thing applies to an internet forum set up and paid for by a private individual. He puts in the work and money, its his place, he sets the rules. This is a forum for audio conversation. If the owner of the site does not want you to talk about politics he has EVERY right to ban you from his private site. Hell if he wants to run a site where you're only allowed to be supportive of same-sex marriage he's allowed to have it his way. What the fuck do you kind of people not understand about that simple concept? If I let you into my house I have EVERY right to throw you out of my house if I dont like what you're doing, no matter if you have the constitutional right to do it. Hell if I dont like the color of your shoes I have every right to throw you out of my house based on that triviality. This DOES NOT infringe on your right to wear whatever colored shoes you like - just not in every setting.

My god I swear, every single fucking time a company censors an employee for ranting stupid right-wing shit (thats usually what it is, other instances surely exist) all the retards come out of the woodwork screaming 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' - Morons, freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. A few months ago the UFC fighter Yoel Romero won his fight and used his post-fight interview time to rant about gay marriage and JEEEEEEEEEESUS. After that the UFC told him not to do that kind of shit again. They pay his salary, they pay for the airtime, and they want him to represent the company in a certain way. They have EVERY right to instruct him how to behave as an employee on the airtime they have paid for. Masses of right-wingers took the opportunity to air their grievances about 'political correctness' and 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!!'; issues they didnt understand the first thing about.

Hell if I go into some stinking bar in Bumfuck, Alabama and start ranting about how god is not real, private citizens shouldnt own fucking armories and how Donald Trump may just not be the ideal candidate for president, I would fully expect to be shown the door by some inbred barowner. And he would have every right to set the rules of speech in his private business.
Well no shit Sherlock. You have the right to say whatever you want. If you shout out that Africans are subhuman, you have the legal right to do so. Employers can fire at-will employees instantly for any reason. It's their right by the contract. If Yoel Romero wants to go on some "EAT THE POO POO" rant, you can't stop him. They can turn off the camera, fire him, and remove him from their private property but they can't stop or physically punish him from saying or publishing it . What are the UFC going to do? Cut his tongue out for blasphemy against the liberal creed like Saudi Arabia crucifies Shiite theologians? You can say what you want as he can say what he wants as long he doesn't threaten physical harm or incite others to do so. If the Fertitta brothers and Dana White want him to go for any reason and he's an at-will employee, it's their business.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: bixby on September 26, 2015, 09:17:37 PM
  :-0

This is starting to look like the comments sections of every news site on the internet................. :vomit:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 09:28:51 PM
Well this discussion has certainly went way off topic.

Well this is Changstar.

(http://www.iomtoday.co.im/webimage/1.7403799.1439293686!/image/1547927752.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/1547927752.jpg)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: keanex on September 26, 2015, 09:33:13 PM
I don't even know what the point of the argument is, or why people are arguing it, nor do I even know how it got here. Seems like a pointless argument, but what do I know?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 26, 2015, 09:34:56 PM
Well no shit Sherlock. You have the right to say whatever you want. If you shout out that Africans are subhuman, you have the legal right to do so. Employers can fire at-will employees instantly for any reason. It's their right by the contract. If Yoel Romero wants to go on some "EAT THE POO POO" rant, you can't stop him. They can turn off the camera, fire him, and remove him from their private property but they can't stop or physically punish him from saying or publishing it . What are the UFC going to do? Cut his tongue out for blasphemy against the liberal creed like Saudi Arabia crucifies Shiite theologians? You can say what you want as he can say what he wants as long he doesn't threaten physical harm or incite others to do so. If the Fertitta brothers and Dana White want him to go for any reason and he's an at-will employee, it's their business.

So you agree that Marv has every right to set the rules of speech on his own - this very - website and censor certain kinds of speech. Great, we are in agreement! Good day to you, sir.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: zerodeefex on September 26, 2015, 09:37:53 PM
well, this thread derailed.

Going to talk to Marv and crew about a "no dumbassery" rule for Chang 2.0. That might cause half my posts to be moderated though.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 26, 2015, 09:39:27 PM
I don't even know what the point of the argument is, or why people are arguing it, nor do I even know how it got here. Seems like a pointless argument, but what do I know?

Keep it simple. Life is demanding enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEJstE3xwkI&ab_channel=BaileyPeterson
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Bill-p on September 26, 2015, 09:41:35 PM
well, this thread derailed.

Going to talk to Marv and crew about a "no dumbassery" rule for Chang 2.0. That might cause half my posts to be moderated though.

How about "you can joke and make remarks but not in certain places"?

Like, say... the measurement forums, the headphone discussion, etc...

I'm sure dumbassery in the off-topic section is very appropriate and should, in fact, be encouraged.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 26, 2015, 09:42:58 PM
How about "you can joke and make remarks but not in certain places"?

Like, say... the measurement forums, the headphone discussion, etc...

I'm sure dumbassery in the off-topic section is very appropriate and should, in fact, be encouraged.


I could get behind that.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 26, 2015, 10:09:59 PM
And exactly what can be so off putting about Changster. Not funny and basic smart comments seemingly based on who can swear the most, in the name of free speech.

Great reading which does absolutely nothing for a forum that wants respect. There's the persona that puts many off right there and why some rarely post.

This thread really needs moderating but some Pyrates seem to see this as unwarranted censorship. It's just plain offensive and there is no need for this amount of (as Marv puts it) .... Noise. Offensive noise so it wouldn't harm in the slightest if the new place did something about it in my eyes.

Yes, I don't have to come on here to read it, but part of me thought that perhaps it was going to be an opportunity to tidy the place up and make it less offensive.

If, as a Pyrate, you don't like reading how an outsider feels about the tone of posts, I claim free speech as well, but without the offensive language.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 26, 2015, 10:13:32 PM
We have developed seven simple guidelines. "No politics" and "Don't be a dumbass" among them.

I don't like being a fascist. This is why they are called guidelines. Rules will always be broken, sometimes for good reason. Ultimately everything goes back to the prime directive: "Try to be nice. Don't be an ass."

I don't care if people post a little diddy on their gay wedding. This happens all the time now in the modern world. I would probably get mad if someone kept hitting the moderation button because someone said "The Hugo looks gay" or "TRRS jacks are lame" instead of "The Hugo looks ghey" or "TRRS jacks are lahme". I won't tolerate "PC Police", if only because standards and customs across the world (and CS is an international site) are different. I would hope that the more enlightened Europeans and Americans be aware of this and be more tolerant of the heathens in Asia and toothless curmudgeons in the less advanced parts of the USA.

I expect moderation will be non-existent or very light. Depends how stupid people want to get. Again, everything goes back to the prime directive: "Try to be nice. Don't be an ass." No one should have to be scared of one or two people. Meltdown threads on non-audio issues should never occur. And these kinds of discussions are staying here. TheGame is much better than I at sorting these things out.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 26, 2015, 10:20:55 PM
And you don't see these offensive posts as dumb? You set standards in audio that are not matched in behaviour in that case and we can all say exactly what we like as long as it's not dumb? Who decides what's not dumb?

No moderation is a cop out and weak. People should be able to communicate without the attitude or language shown, but there you are.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 26, 2015, 10:26:34 PM
What I mean is that I do not expect that moderation will be necessary or excessive because we are having these discussions here and setting expectations ahead of time.

I expect and assume the best out of people. Maybe this is flawed thinking. However, I will be more committed to stopping nonsense in its tracks. People should not be afraid to hit the moderation button for legitimate issues.

There is no black and white answer of what qualifies as dumbassery or not. I can write 1003 rules. Still wouldn't give us an answer. Ultimately it depends on the context (was there motive to insult?) What I will say is that I will trust Jeremy (TheGame) to exercise good judgment and CT/zdfx to advise on the general direction.

I'd rather not distill it to HF's policy of specific "fighting" or "insult" words. Intent and the meaning of the words is everything, not the words themselves.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 26, 2015, 10:31:45 PM
To follow up on the above thought, I found it much more troubling that people DID NOT HIT the moderation button when certain people were being aggressive or crapping on each other in non-audio meltdown threads, but INCESSANTLY HIT Mike Moffat's stereotype comment on LGBT with macs. People will have to be responsible for reporting all types of bad behavior on the new site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 26, 2015, 10:45:30 PM
Anyway, go back and read what TheGame wrote and read into it however you guys want. It's obvious whichever way I go, I lose. I would hope that people will come to terms on what is acceptable and what is not.

Keep in mind that I am allowing myself to be moderated by TheGame and I will trust the advice of CT and Ravi. I know I tend to say stupid things. I will say that the new site already has a different vibe. (Some people are there already.)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: knerian on September 26, 2015, 11:08:39 PM
And you don't see these offensive posts as dumb? You set standards in audio that are not matched in behaviour in that case and we can all say exactly what we like as long as it's not dumb? Who decides what's not dumb?

No moderation is a cop out and weak. People should be able to communicate without the attitude or language shown, but there you are.

Rabbit have you checked out the other audio threads on this site?  Most of them don't even come close to the hypothetical situations that people are talking about in this thread.  There are some non-audio sections where people talk about food, politics, whatever, and that can degenerate into less than civil discourse, but those areas are contained.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Cos on September 26, 2015, 11:17:18 PM
Being a prudish European living in US, I find the site spicy-funny but did not get personally offended yet. Maybe because I don't spend too much time here so probably I did not read the worst stuff that Rabbit read. I take things cum granu salis or tongue in cheek, as people seem to be reasonable and nice and most fumes seem to be pirate bravado. Afterall pirates are not known to have a clean mouth or use the King's English so a little latitude is part of the pirate deal.

I see where Marv is coming from and how this place would get a little, huh, sterile, with too much moderation...

Maybe the new site can have a  PG13 option that screens for bad language and people that don't want to read obnoxious stuff are saved their purity and redirected to strictly technical issues?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 26, 2015, 11:19:47 PM
My point is that when someone indignantly and suggestively asks "AND WHO DECIDES WHAT IS RUDE?" or "AND WHO DECIDES WHAT IS PC?" etc you dont necessarily have to shy away from answering simply: 'Me.' (or a mod of my chosing). Its your work, your house, your rules.



PS: I personally do admittedly tend to cuss a lot, use a lot of foul language and tendentially offensive or insulting language. In general I try not to use language that is discriminatory towards whole groups - especially not if they face actual real-life discrimination. So I'll often say 'you retard' with the implicit knowledge that the recipient and other readers would understand this as a generic insult, totally unrelated to people with neurological problems. The same goes for 'SOB' and a myriad of other generic cusswords. However I wont say 'you dirty beaneater' to a mexican or 'you abomination before god' to a homosexual: thats obviously a very targeted insult relating to real-life discrimination that people experience in society. The recipient of 'you retard' can get mad at me and respond in kind; the 'dirty beaneater' would recognize in my attack not an individual insult but an instance of a broader form of discrimination he or people he knows are suffering from. Obviously there are borderline cases: 'Fag' or 'gay' have for a lot of people become generic insults over the last decades. I too used the words in that sense as insults in everyday speech even though I fully support LGBT rights. Then I grew the fuck up and deliberately deleted those words from my 'generic insults'-vocabulary. It took some time, a few weeks, hell very rarely one might still slip out today, but I'm about 99% discrimination free :) But I do understand if some people havent gone through that realization yet, so I certainly would not report someone for using 'gay' as a generic insult - say towards a piece of equipment or what have you. I would however report it if I felt that it was in fact used not as a generic but as a targeted insult, coming from a place of hatred and discrimination. Context matters here. Whatever, blabla, who cares what I think.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 26, 2015, 11:43:19 PM
And you don't see these offensive posts as dumb? You set standards in audio that are not matched in behaviour in that case and we can all say exactly what we like as long as it's not dumb? Who decides what's not dumb?

No moderation is a cop out and weak. People should be able to communicate without the attitude or language shown, but there you are.

I think Marv is alluding to common sense.

As time goes by, it should be clear what is acceptable behavior and what is not.

Please note that when you write:

1) "You set standards in audio that are not matched in behaviour in that case..."

> You seem to be making an accusation, and not a very friendly one. Not sure where that came from.

2) "... and we can all say exactly what we like as long as it's not dumb? Who decides what's not dumb?"

> I feel common sense decides it, along with proper context.

There has to be some tolerance IMO.

You have to look at where some folks are coming from when they talk about lax moderation. Too much of it can be pretty uncomfortable and become abusive as well.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: DrForBin on September 26, 2015, 11:48:24 PM
hello,

at this juncture i'm just glad i missed the shoutbox meltdown.

believe it or not it is possible to disagree without making personal attacks.

at least i hope so. :)p1
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on September 27, 2015, 12:38:56 AM
We have developed seven simple guidelines. "No politics" and "Don't be a dumbass" among them.

I don't like being a fascist. This is why they are called guidelines. Rules will always be broken, sometimes for good reason. Ultimately everything goes back to the prime directive: "Try to be nice. Don't be an ass."

I just want to add that I like and value the people who've disagreed with me. They're wonderfully nice guys, and I wouldn't talk to them if I thought otherwise.

It's best for everyone to forgive and forget. A broad No Politics rule guideline that's fair to both sides of Culture War 4.0 should go a long way towards that end.

http://dai.ly/xlpcoq (http://dai.ly/xlpcoq)  :)p5
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 27, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
Does me calling Los Angeles "El Lay" offend people? Just asking.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 27, 2015, 01:47:58 AM
Yes. It's completely inappropriate, racist, immature, degrading, humiliating, ignominious, antagonistic, ignoble and vile. I think that if one should call something for what it is and by it's proper name: El Lei
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Kunlun on September 27, 2015, 01:55:16 AM
To follow up on the above thought, I found it much more troubling that people DID NOT HIT the moderation button when certain people were being aggressive or crapping on each other in non-audio meltdown threads, but INCESSANTLY HIT Mike Moffat's stereotype comment on LGBT with macs. People will have to be responsible for reporting all types of bad behavior on the new site.
Ha ha, you were part of some of those meltdowns (me, too!)!!! It's completely cool that you are letting yourself be moderated just like everyone. I think the new site is going to be great.

N.B. Just wanted to say for the record I never had any sort of problem with Mike's comments about macs!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 27, 2015, 02:04:45 AM
So i was thinking "shit" would be ok, but perhaps "fuck" would not.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 27, 2015, 02:05:11 AM
Yes. It's completely inappropriate, racist, immature, degrading, humiliating, ignominious, antagonistic, ignoble and vile. I think that if one should call something for what it is and by it's proper name: El Le

I'm offended that you are offended.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 27, 2015, 02:08:34 AM
So i was thinking "shit" would be ok, but perhaps "fuck" would not.

No Marv, "shit" is NOT ok. It's foul. "fuck" is alright.

I'm offended that you are offended.

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2699594/fish-slapping-o.gif)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Xen on September 27, 2015, 02:10:20 AM
I dunno...My students think I have unlimited patience, and I find it sad that having a teacher that blows up maybe twice a year is so out of the ordinary that students comment on it almost weekly. I guess it also helps when I am white-hot with anger, I go steely cold.

Try not to offend and in turn, try not to be offended.
Try not to bait and in turn, try not to take the bait.

All sorts of stuff gets thrown my way, but I don't have the time or energy to take it personally.

Oh well, back to grading and trying to find a version of Pachelbel's Canon in D with String Quartet, Harpsichord AND bassoon. Youtube, you fail me.  walk the plank2  <-- youtube!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 27, 2015, 03:03:43 AM
No Marv, "shit" is NOT ok. It's foul. "fuck" is alright.

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2699594/fish-slapping-o.gif)
So "this headphone sounds like fucking shit" is in?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Psalmanazar on September 27, 2015, 03:30:38 AM
Shitting and fucking are natural bodily functions.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: kothganesh on September 27, 2015, 03:52:25 AM
So i was thinking "shit" would be ok, but perhaps "fuck" would not.

Does Jason/Mike care if we use schitt instead ?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: ultrabike on September 27, 2015, 04:07:24 AM
So "this headphone sounds like fucking shit" is in?

Shitting and fucking are natural bodily functions.

Does Jason/Mike care if we use schitt instead ?

It really depends on context. You got to ask yourself: Is this civilized?

(http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33800000/Brain-Gremlin-gremlins-33863131-500-333.jpg)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 27, 2015, 04:19:54 AM
Too much vulgar language in this thread, I am going to start to lay the hammer down on you little shits.  :))

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12042963_930616297010470_3500076212753279122_n.jpg?oh=9b31c1592a28d782c0ca38f6b35f9e94&oe=56916960)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: takato14 on September 27, 2015, 04:23:06 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 27, 2015, 07:30:48 AM
I say chaps, there's way too much vulgarity going on in this thread. I am going to have to lay the law down for some of you young bucks.

You are really off kilter and have no regard for the house rules which state that all ties must be pulled up fully and jackets must be fastened by the centre button only, unless sitting down.

Fuck it, I'm off to the pub.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 27, 2015, 10:29:41 AM
You want vulgarity? Prepare for Mad Bull 34.

(http://anigamers.com/media/entry-uploads/MadBull34DangerousMerkin_120414_125432.jpg)

P.S. This is tame by anime standards.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 27, 2015, 12:20:01 PM
P.S. This is tame by anime standards.

Actually -it really is! lol
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 27, 2015, 03:26:21 PM
If I insult shitheads, is that general, or specific?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Koloth on September 27, 2015, 05:23:18 PM
If I insult shitheads, is that general, or specific?

Well the shitbird population might feel discriminated, but I say they had it coming.

PS: Finally made the modest donation.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: altrunox on September 27, 2015, 06:16:13 PM
Anax, I miss your posts :-*
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Colgin on September 27, 2015, 07:16:56 PM
Just made my modest contribution to the new site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Marvey on September 27, 2015, 07:19:56 PM
Still waiting for you to join up Colgin. As for "Friend" status when you do.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Ringingears on September 27, 2015, 07:26:22 PM
I say chaps, there's way too much vulgarity going on in this thread. I am going to have to lay the law down for some of you young bucks.

You are really off kilter and have no regard for the house rules which state that all ties must be pulled up fully and jackets must be fastened by the centre button only, unless sitting down.

Fuck it, I'm off to the pub.
I hope you are dressed properly for a Sunday sir. And get properly pissed at the pub.  :)p5
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Rabbit on September 27, 2015, 08:22:13 PM
Oh yah. Gave a large rump steak a good seeing to with a couple of old rumpy pumpies, courtesy of the local ale house.

Then played a few rounds on the old Joanna for an hour. Landlord still made me pay for the refreshment. What is the world coming to eh? ;)
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: PelPix on September 27, 2015, 08:34:16 PM
You know, I get like $200 worth of free Azure stuff a month. A good chunk of the new site could be hosted on that. That's like...500GB of bandwidth a month
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: The Alchemist on September 27, 2015, 08:46:03 PM
Let Marvey know, he is the only one able to make those types of decisions -he may be interested. Thank you for posting!
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: johnjen on September 27, 2015, 10:57:38 PM
Having been a mod on a larger forum for many years, I too have watched these progressions as the site deals with growth and the consequences of same.

Some always want it to stay the same, some want/demand it to change, drama ensues, some leave, newbs come in to fill in the numbers.

And so it goes.

This form of communication is fraught with limitations (lack of subtle cues we all 'depend upon' for context) etc.
It's a wonder things don't get out of hand all the more.
And for me the bottom line is it's just words on a screen, with the meaning residing between our ears.

All of this has reminded that we ARE NOT our thoughts.
We are NOT what our egos want others to think of us.

If what this site becomes isn't acceptable, then start one that is.
And experience for yourself the reality behind what it takes to deal with 'personalities' and their attendant egos.

After all these are the origins of this very site and countless others...

So for me, contributing something of value is what I aspire to in terms of the contents of my posts.
It's a hobby and I for one want to maintain that perspective so the fun and sense of discovery and sharing remain.
So when the seriousness gets in the way, since it's just words on a screen, I just ignore it all.

Life is too short and I'm the one who decides what is important, at least for me anyway.

JJ

Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 28, 2015, 12:17:57 AM
Anax, I miss your posts

Well, we do need his ears back.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: DrForBin on September 28, 2015, 01:35:54 AM
hello,

agreed wholeheartedly. however. the politics need to be left behind. just my opinion, YMMV, yada, yada, yada...
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 28, 2015, 11:24:58 AM
hello,

agreed wholeheartedly. however. the politics need to be left behind. just my opinion, YMMV, yada, yada, yada...

To keep the new place pleasant yes. Do not expect "Headphone Flowchart" posts from me in the future.

A good joke is still appreciated there so all is well.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 28, 2015, 01:35:37 PM
Do not expect "Headphone Flowchart" posts from me in the future.

Did you catch a lot of flak for the chinchong thing on the flowchart? I was under the impression that people didn't get ruffled by that.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: rschoi_75 on September 28, 2015, 06:43:08 PM
  :wheel: :)p10 :)p6 :boom: .......  :)p1  :)p3  :)p1 :)p2  :-DD  :-0 :-0  :& *:p  )( :vomit:........   facepalm :spank: walk the plank2 :)p4  :)p13  :)p13 :)p13



popcorn I guess this thread is a perfectly fitting way to send the Changstar ship to Davy Jones' locker.

”May your anchor be tight, your cork be loose, your rum be spiced and your compass be true” ... good luck on the new site.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Thad E Ginathom on September 28, 2015, 07:19:00 PM
I'm already missing these people...

 :)p10  :)p1  :)p4
 :)p2  :)p3  :)p8  :)p13  ahoy
 :vomit:  :boom:  :)p6  walk the plank2  walk the plank

Still, I guess it's a case of steaming on

 :wheel:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: insidious meme on September 28, 2015, 07:21:56 PM
I'm sure they'll be adding those smilies in the new place down the road.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: jexby on September 28, 2015, 10:22:47 PM
just as the doors are closing here, completed my donation to chang/superbest.
long may we sail the seas together!
 :wheel:
   :)p2
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Deep Funk on September 28, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
Did you catch a lot of flak for the chinchong thing on the flowchart? I was under the impression that people didn't get ruffled by that.


I never knew or created this term "chinchong." Some of my posts and some conversations I was in were not appreciated. Some topics were the kind of topics some people prefer to avoid. So be it.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: lm4der on September 28, 2015, 11:16:07 PM
I never knew or created this term "chinchong." Some of my posts and some conversations I was in were not appreciated. Some topics were the kind of topics some people prefer to avoid. So be it.


Derp, sorry, that was someone else.  Aye, so be it.
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Claritas on October 03, 2015, 03:16:44 PM
I'm hoping for six thousand (double the expected cost).

We hit 6,000. Yay!

:ship:
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on November 21, 2015, 11:02:15 AM
Did the new site go up?
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: uncola on November 23, 2015, 12:11:04 AM
hawaiiancerveza I can't tell if you're kidding.  but the new site is http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php  it's been up for a while :P
Title: Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
Post by: Hawaiiancerveza on November 23, 2015, 10:02:14 AM
No I wasn't kidding. I'm not on here very often so I asked and kunlun gave me the link.  Thanks though.