CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS
Non-Audio Stuff => The Geek Cave: Home Theatre, Computers, and More! => Topic started by: Maxvla on July 13, 2015, 12:51:35 AM
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Looking at finally upgrading the core of my system after nearly 7 years.
Current rig:
Looking to update:
i7 860 2.80GHz (LGA 1156)
Gigabyte P55M-UD2 Micro ATX
4 x 2GB DDR3 1600
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus - Might move to a CLLC system with accompanying case, like a Corsair.
Wifi card
The i7 still does well enough, but extracting large rars is testing my patience these days, and encoding videos takes a while. Unfortunately this was a one-off socket, the 1156, so there was never an upgrade path. Lately I've been picking up new tech that I'd like to be able to take advantage of, such as USB 3.0 (my tablet, portable hard disk, and micro SD card reader) and bluetooth (Deepblue 2), and I'd like to update to faster wifi than my addon card was made for, so my tablet can stream easier from my main rig. Also, it seems this might be a good opportunity to make the step to DDR4.
I think I've waited long enough to get all these technologies (and maybe others) up to date in one shot and make it worthwhile even though my current rig is still ok-ish. Last year I helped a co-worker build a computer using a Corsair case and water cooling setup that was easy and effective. My last water cooling adventure (12 years or so ago) was back when you used aquarium pumps and had to do it all yourself. That was very effective, but some months later there was a small leak and my system force shut down to protect the chip (thankfully it was Intel back then, AMD didn't have that).
Another issue I've had with my rig for a very long time is USB transfer speed. I've tried everything over the years to fix it, but it must be a hardware problem. The USB 2.0 transfer starts fine, but almost immediately tanks to extremely low speeds. USB 2.0 isn't all that great anyways for large transfers anyways, so I am hoping to 'fix' this by replacing the mobo and upgrading to USB 3.0/3.1. When I recently bought a 128GB sd card, I tried loading my music from my main rig and it bogged so much I had to cancel (actually pull the drive out because it wouldn't cancel via software), plug it into my tablet, access my directory on wifi and load it that way. Silly. Sure 10MB/s is pretty slow when transfering ~120GB, but at least it will actually finish. I'd been thinking about a computer upgrade the last couple years, but never took it seriously, but this comedic file transfer was a sign.
Things that are recent upgrades, or don't need replacing:
Asus R270 2GB - I mostly play older games and only play on a single 1080p monitor (Sony 52" TV)
Corsair 850TX 850W PSU - was originally in my rackmount raid server (unless i need different plugs for modern stuff)
2 x 2 TB hard disk (sata)
1 x 4 TB hard disk (sata)
2 x 1 TB hard disk (sata)
Blu-ray/DVD burner
Possible updates:
Intel X25-M G2 80GB - still working fantastically, but space is always an issue. Windows + 1 large game usually is all that will fit. Modern drives offer much more speed, too.
Plan:
Broadwell finally just recently went up for sale, but it is not a full release like we are used to seeing. Just a couple chips to satisfy those who have to have something. Skylake is supposedly going to be up for sale this August and is supposed to be a real world 5% improvement on Broadwell, though no tests have been shown publicly. I looked at some of the extensive CPU benchmark sites and noticed that a modern Broadwell is roughly double the score of my current chip. This is enough of an improvement to warrant a change, imo. Skylake is going to be the first of another new socket, the 1151, and will be accompanied by the new 100 chipset series. This chipset is a good platform for updating those technologies I mentioned before, USB 3.1, faster wifi on board, bluetooth on board (perhaps), and of course DDR4. It will also feature M.2 for ultra fast SSD operation should I choose to use it.
So I propose to get whatever the best value i5 Skylake is released (lowest usually), a well featured motherboard (full ATX this time...), 16GB of DDR4, a CLLC water setup and matching case, and perhaps a new SSD on the M.2 interface.
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I would definitely replace that SSD. Currently 550/550 is a typical speed now even for mid-level drives, and I'm sure IOPS would be more than what you have by an order of magnitude. 256GB drives have also gotten cheap enough that you can basically buy them on a whim.
IMO water cooling is a total waste of time and money. The cheap Asetek rebranded closed loop setups are at most 5-10% better than a top level tower cooler, for 30% more cost. And you may have to return it two or three times until you happen to get one with a pump that doesn't scream. And that's if you get the ones with 240 rads. The ones that are a single 120 or 140 often have WORSE temps than tower coolers. A full system loop with a dedicated pump will do better, for WAY more money, but unless you're trying to over-volt and overclock every last ounce of performance, it's pointless. Spend the money on a multiplier unlocked Core i7 instead of you want faster performance.
As far as cases, I really like what Phanteks is doing. Corsairs I think are boring, and many aren't that well suited to air cooling.
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Yeah, I have been watching SSDs drop in price and gain in performance. I'd probably do a 512 minimum if I went for a new SSD. Maybe that Samsung SM951 M.2 drive either 256GB or 512GB. For as fast as they are, they are still less than a dollar per GB, which is surprising.
The Corsair setup I did for my friend was whisper quiet and provided great temps. The case was alright looking/featured and was designed for the water setup, so it was easy to assemble. The Hyper 212 I have now does a great job, so this would be more of a 'I just want it' thing, but the temps are certainly higher than my friend's water setup. Also, I would imagine most of the Corsair cases are designed around using one of their CLLC systems, so air performance isn't their priority anyway.
My computer is near my headphone rig, so silence (or close to it) is mandatory. I picked the Asus R270 video card because it was enough performance for what I play and it was very quiet, the Hyper 212 is like-wise quiet. The case I'm using now is very old and only has 80mm fan locations, so I'd like to move to a case with 120mm minimum. Presently the only noise I ever hear from my computer is those 80mm case fans at a light hum, and some occasional hard disk grumble.
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Might as well spring for a larger NVMe drive since SSD prices are going down, so it won't be much of an expense. I guess there will be more M.2 sized drives by then.
The Corsairs are easy to work with, but in the past I have found their designs boring as well. With water cooling, thermals are going to be tied to the radiators and the water block . A lot of space has to be dedicated to rads if you want higher cooling performance than high end air, and you still need to cool the rest of the system.
Video encoding and compression are very paralleled tasks, and would see benefits from i7 Hyperthreading, or just throwing more cores at the problem. DDR4 won't bring much of a performance benefit, if any, but it's not dead-ended if you want more than 16GB in the future.
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Well it doesn't get much more boring than my current case, a Chieftec Dragon that I originally bought back in 2002, yes 13 years ago.
(http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/itemdetails/DRG/black-wg-1.jpg)
I also have a really nice Silverstone HTPC case I used for a time, until I consolidated my HTPC and server into fewer larger drives, but still enough that would not all fit in the Silverstone.
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-163-055-01.jpg)
Regarding the i7 thing, I am glad I went with the i7 way back when, but I think i5 will be the way to go this time. The performance difference (my chip to an i5) is enough to overcome any hyperthreading differences, and I don't do those tasks enough to warrant the extra expense of a modern i7.
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Skip the Samsung SM951. Go for the Intel 750 PCI-e! I know I'm getting one once I upgrade to Skylake.
Corsair cases are pretty shit. Quality is very mediocre and so is cooling layout for air and water.
I highly recommend going for big air cooling over CLCs. Anyone who tells you watercooling is quieter than air (except for very high OCs) is obviously deaf. You're still using fans and pumps make noise.
Are you willing to try open test bench? A few guys on here have taken up my advice and would never go back to traditional cases. Extremely quiet yet good overclocking headroom.
(http://i.imgur.com/VAuHI63l.jpg)
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Dude, get a new SSD, and a great quality one, like the Samsung 850 Evo, or even a m-sata that your new motherboard should support, or even better, buy both! :)p1
And watercooler is usually a waste of money +1, something like the Hyper 212X is more than enough most of the times, the only issue is memory compatbility, you would need some low profile ram.
Also, you could get a new case, some Silencio model from CM or even the Define from Fractal Design may be interesting for you, since silence looks to be one of yours priority,
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I think my next machine will be open test bench. Really like the idea of just being able to pull crap out when I need to without having to go inside a case and all sorts of bullshit. Also, quality big fans like the Noctua's are very quiet as long as you can keep the RPM on them down.
With regards to Intel CPUs I wouldn't get too hung up on waiting for the next gen unless you are going to use the integrated graphics or want to hit a specific power envelope. That's where all the CPU R&D has been going over the past few years as opposed to IPC performance which only goes up a few percent with each revision. Intel sees the threat from ARM SoCs scaling upwards and is pushing the performance/watt of their chips to fend off the threat. No way is Intel going to let ARM into the laptop/desktop market without a major fight and Intel has the ultimate ace in that their fab tech is several years ahead of everybody else.
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Dude, get a new SSD, and a great quality one, like the Samsung 850 Evo, or even a m-sata that your new motherboard should support, or even better, buy both! :)p1
And watercooler is usually a waste of money +1, something like the Hyper 212X is more than enough most of the times, the only issue is memory compatbility, you would need some low profile ram.
Also, you could get a new case, some Silencio model from CM or even the Define from Fractal Design may be interesting for you, since silence looks to be one of yours priority,
M-sata is being phased out and replaced with M.2. Samsung SM951 is still a great choice but I grown to distrust Samsung drives lately. My 840 pro shits itself once in while and the 840 Evo constantly has slow read issues.
212+ is a piece of crap. Stupidly loud fans and a retarded mounting system that requires 3 hands if you want a perfect seating. Cooling is only mediocre too.
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Skip the Samsung SM951. Go for the Intel 750 PCI-e! I know I'm getting one once I upgrade to Skylake.
Corsair cases are pretty shit. Quality is very mediocre and so is cooling layout for air and water.
I highly recommend going for big air cooling over CLCs. Anyone who tells you watercooling is quieter than air (except for very high OCs) is obviously deaf. You're still using fans and pumps make noise.
Are you willing to try open test bench? A few guys on here have taken up my advice and would never go back to traditional cases. Extremely quiet yet good overclocking headroom.
The Intel PCIe card doesn't seem to be much, if any, faster and it's more than a dollar per GB and only available in 400GB or 1200GB, the latter of which I cannot afford, and the former I really shouldn't afford given the meager space.
I'm not interested in an open bench. I rarely change anything in my PC these days, and I would be worried about accidental contact with fans, etc.
Regarding sound levels, I have heard my own computer (obviously) and my friend's with the CLLC system, and his was quieter. It is possible that updating my case to something made within the last decade to allow for larger slower fans will create the same low sound levels. The cooling question is certainly not answered yet, and if the water+case setup starts looking too expensive/not attractive, I have no problems falling back on air. I haven't overclocked in ages, probably 10 years because for most tasks, the processor isn't being taxed in the first place. Once dual core processors came out, most processor speed increases gave minimal boost to overall performance. My last substantial overclock was an Intel P4 2.4b @ 3.6GHz on water.
@altrunox
The Hyper 212 is indeed very nice for what it cost, so there's a good chance I'll continue to use it if I opt out of water.
I'll look at the cases you suggest. Thanks.
@Chris F
The chip upgrade is somewhat about performance, but is mostly about updating the platform as a whole, and getting in on the 1151 socket at the beginning, with perhaps some upgradability later. This burned me on the 1156 socket, being an early adopter, but the 1151 seems to have legs. Moving to the 100 series chipset gets me several smaller tech upgrades as well as the faster main processor, so it's about the sum of the parts, rather than just getting a fast chip.
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With regards to Intel CPUs I wouldn't get too hung up on waiting for the next gen unless you are going to use the integrated graphics or want to hit a specific power envelope. That's where all the CPU R&D has been going over the past few years as opposed to IPC performance which only goes up a few percent with each revision.
Skylake brings something like a 15% IPC increase, nothing to sneeze at. Plus there's a good chance that Intel will stall at this microarchitecture for a few years, so the new socket will have a decent upgrade lifespan.
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Nonsense, they're not boring at all. Working with tightly packed and sharp steel edges keeps you on edge when trying to force in a new GPU or screw in a hard drive. Trying to make sensible airflow in maze of IDE ribbons is a real challenge. The real reason Corsairs aren't interesting is they lack performance and price/performance.
Skylake brings something like a 15% IPC increase, nothing to sneeze at. Plus there's a good chance that Intel will stall at this microarchitecture for a few years, so the new socket will have a decent upgrade lifespan.
I've seen a few preliminary benches, and they're all over the place. Whether it actually holds up or not, I'm sure that this would be closer to thermal limits on the new process.
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Intel SSD will have more endurance which is why I'll pick Intel over Samsung from now on. Also power off protect, etc etc.
Open air automatically gives you -5c vs closed case in quiet rig. There's a lot of potential. Means you can run fans at lower speeds and still achieve better cooling. Win-win situation.
If you really refuse to go open air, CM HAF XB Evo works. Greed ended up going with that case and is very happy with it.
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That CM HAF XB Evo is an odd case, aimed at a certain use, which is not mine.
Looked at the Refine R5. Looks alright, but there might be better. The Silencio does not appear to be sold anymore.
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That CM HAF XB Evo is an odd case, aimed at a certain use, which is not mine.
Looked at the Refine R5. Looks alright, but there might be better. The Silencio does not appear to be sold anymore.
Since you're hellbent on traditional cases, Arc Midi R2 seems better than R5. I've worked on an R4 before and there's a lot of airflow restriction at the front of the case. I was able to get it as quiet as my rig but ran 5C hotter.
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The Fractal cases are alright, but stale. It's the same basic design going back to basically the beginning, just with some updates here and there. Still very traditional ATX with the hard drives stuck in front of the fans and not a ton of thought in terms of direct GPU cooling. Other companies are doing things smarter these days.
As for SSDs, I've been very pleased with my Crucial M550s and MX100s, especially now that they've released a proper SSD software tool. They are among the lowest cost SSDs on the market, yet have very competitive performance, and no dogcrap Sandforce or largely untested FOTM controller like you get from a lot of the smaller players. Built-in power loss protection, and none of the issues I've been reading about with Samsung drives. If I had bought a bunch of 840 EVOs I'd be none to pleased. I always thought TLC was bullshit. I lost interest in Intel when they went to Sandforce for their consumer level drives.
Here's what I would suggest looking at in terms of a case. Couple of degrees hotter than an open air test bench for both CPU and GPU. Direct cooling path to the components and full dust filtration, WITH the ability to still mount a bunch of drives. Front mounted HDD trays can be added one at a time, really clever stuff. The doors also swing out and lift off, so it's about as easy to work inside as it's going to get. PWM fan hub on the back, so a single motherboard chassis fan header can control all of the case fans at once. IMO Phanteks is showing everybody else how it's done.
It's also worth noting that there's no I/O on the front cover, it's just a cover. The power switch is on top, I/O is under a panel that is part of the case. So if you want to maximize intake airflow, just leave the front cover off.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2015/06/01/phanteks-enthoo-evolv-atx-review/1
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The Fractal cases are alright, but stale. It's the same basic design going back to basically the beginning, just with some updates here and there. Still very traditional ATX with the hard drives stuck in front of the fans and not a ton of thought in terms of direct GPU cooling. Other companies are doing things smarter these days.
As for SSDs, I've been very pleased with my Crucial M550s and MX100s, especially now that they've released a proper SSD software tool. They are among the lowest cost SSDs on the market, yet have very competitive performance, and no dogcrap Sandforce or largely untested FOTM controller like you get from a lot of the smaller players. Built-in power loss protection, and none of the issues I've been reading about with Samsung drives. If I had bought a bunch of 840 EVOs I'd be none to pleased. I always thought TLC was bullshit. I lost interest in Intel when they went to Sandforce for their consumer level drives.
Here's what I would suggest looking at in terms of a case. Couple of degrees hotter than an open air test bench for both CPU and GPU. Direct cooling path to the components and full dust filtration, WITH the ability to still mount a bunch of drives. Front mounted HDD trays can be added one at a time, really clever stuff. The doors also swing out and lift off, so it's about as easy to work inside as it's going to get. PWM fan hub on the back, so a single motherboard chassis fan header can control all of the case fans at once. IMO Phanteks is showing everybody else how it's done.
It's also worth noting that there's no I/O on the front cover, it's just a cover. The power switch is on top, I/O is under a panel that is part of the case. So if you want to maximize intake airflow, just leave the front cover off.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2015/06/01/phanteks-enthoo-evolv-atx-review/1
For consumer drives, Micron/Crucial has bulletproof reliability. Not sure if they have released a competitive NVMe drive yet though. NVMe is really the future.
Forgot about Phanteks' new cases. For a traditional tower, that's one of the better designs. If Maxvla doesn't need to shove a lot of HDDs in the case, I think the R4/R5 work better since GPU can get air directly from underneath with the bottom fan which Phanteks doesn't have.
If Maxvla is willing to be more open minded, a side by side case is better still. Does take up a larger footprint though.
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Phanteks case looks nice, but no spot for an optical drive.
I don't know if you didn't see the list, but yes, I do plan to have several hard drives loaded. I currently use 5 hard disks 1 ssd and an optical drive.
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@Chris F
The chip upgrade is somewhat about performance, but is mostly about updating the platform as a whole, and getting in on the 1151 socket at the beginning, with perhaps some upgradability later. This burned me on the 1156 socket, being an early adopter, but the 1151 seems to have legs. Moving to the 100 series chipset gets me several smaller tech upgrades as well as the faster main processor, so it's about the sum of the parts, rather than just getting a fast chip.
Excellent point. I too am trying to upgrade an old 1156 PC so I totally empathize. I may go to something 2011 based because I want 6+ cores. My major use case for actually building the thing is audio processing (needledrops mostly!) where the algorithms are perfectly suited to parallelization.
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Phanteks case looks nice, but no spot for an optical drive.
I don't know if you didn't see the list, but yes, I do plan to have several hard drives loaded. I currently use 5 hard disks 1 ssd and an optical drive.
Oh right. One of the Enthoo cases would work for you then, loads of storage.
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Skylake hit today and the reviews are conflicting. Some say 10% gains over 4790, some show benches where the 6700k barely beats a 2600k. Sounds like I should have gone for a 2600k when they were new.
My i7 860 is so old that it isn't in many of the benchmarks but the few that it was, the i5 6600k doubled it, so despite the less than stellar release I think I will go ahead with the upgrade. I might wait a bit to see how things shake out before buying instead of making a day 1 mistake.
(http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph9483/76271.png)
Even in multi-thread, the hyperthreading 860 loses by almost double to the non HT i5 6600k.
(http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph9483/76272.png)
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Yup, looks like a wash in terms of IPC. Gaming perf actually went down (ouch!) though I'm sure future firmware updates will sort that one out.
Multithreaded results look good though and that's mostly what I'm interested in.
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Seems like Skylake OCs very high though.
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I'm still rocking a 2500K at 4.5GHz. Are there any Skylake reviews out that compare Sandy Bridge through Skylake clock for clock?
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I'm still rocking a 2500K at 4.5GHz. Are there any Skylake reviews out that compare Sandy Bridge through Skylake clock for clock?
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7274/intel-skylake-core-i7-6700k-cpu-z170-chipset-gt530-review/index14.html
Add another ~5% to the 3770k and it will be ~+20% IPC for Skylake vs Sandy. Also Skylake having all the additional features that come with Z170 which Z68 doesn't have. Quite a nice upgrade.
I'm on Haswell so I'm on the border. An Intel 750 PCI-e SSD would be nice to have. That's about the only reason why I'd upgrade.
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I think the chipset is way more exciting than the chip, which is not something I expected to say about a 14-nanometer chip.
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http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7274/intel-skylake-core-i7-6700k-cpu-z170-chipset-gt530-review/index14.html
Add another ~5% to the 3770k and it will be ~+20% IPC for Skylake vs Sandy. Also Skylake having all the additional features that come with Z170 which Z68 doesn't have. Quite a nice upgrade.
Cool, thanks. For gaming, most benchmarks make me think there's no major reason to upgrade from my OCed 2500K.
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I think the chipset is way more exciting than the chip, which is not something I expected to say about a 14-nanometer chip.
I agree.
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I think the chipset is way more exciting than the chip, which is not something I expected to say about a 14-nanometer chip.
Agreeed. However, the removal of FIVR and the overclocking potential are definitely intriguing as well.
I'm on Haswell-E, so I'm not planning to upgrade. But if I was, it'd be based on the feature set of the new chipset and all the other improvements that have been made over the past generations, and not necessarily the raw performance of the processor. Native USB 3.0, PCIe storage, PCIe 3.0, and DMI 3.0 are all pretty big deals.
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The reviews for skylake have been very underwhelming so far. Skip it and wait for the next gen to come out. If you have I would say Sandy Bridge and beyond just wait till PCI-E 4.0.
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Just throwing in a recommendation for bang-for-the-buck. I built this system nearly a year ago and it's still relevant right now, especially for gaming.
I came from an overclocked 2500k (at 4.4GHz) and the performance increases were noticeable. The CPU became my bottleneck after I bought a GTX 970.
- CPU: Intel i7 4790k -- I'd still probably get this today. It's better in gaming benchmarks than the last two Intel releases pretty frequently.
- Motherboard: Asus Maximus VII Hero - I'd still get this today, or I'd get an even better Asus. MAYBE the Gigabyte that has the fancy USB that is meant for DACs (but the Asus has them too and it's BS).
- RAM: G.Skill TridentX DDR3 2400 -- This ram rules. The only way I'd get something else is if I got a processor that required DDR4.
- Video Card: Galax GTX 970 HOF -- Overkill. If I did it again, I'd get an EVGA GTX 970 FTW+ (wasn't out yet)
- SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (would prefer 512 or 1TB, to be honest) -- If I were to build today, I'd get an M.2 if I could afford it, or an 850 Pro if not.
- HD: HGST Deskstar NAS 7200RPM 4TB -- Great for always-on storage and streaming files reliably
- PSU: Corsair HX850 -- Built today I'd get their best 850 or 1000w power supply
- Case: Corsair Carbide 400R or whatever floats your boat -- they make excellent cases
- CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H60 or better. -- If you want to OC hard, get one with the full radiator (two fans) and "i" series if you get that PSU. I have the Enermeax Liqtech 240 and it's great but harder to install than Corsair.
- Keyboard: Love the Cooler Master QuickFire Rapid/XT keyboards with Cherry MX Brown. I have the tenkeyless at home and full-size at work.
- Sound Card: Sound Blaster ZxR for gaming.
Did I miss anything?
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Sweet setup I will post my setup when I get home. The only thing you get by upgrading to skylake now is DDR4 which is in the infant stages of development.
Like I said I am waiting for PCI-E 4.0 to come out because as a gamer graphics are definitely important.
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Just throwing in a recommendation for bang-for-the-buck. I built this system nearly a year ago and it's still relevant right now, especially for gaming.
I came from an overclocked 2500k (at 4.4GHz) and the performance increases were noticeable. The CPU became my bottleneck after I bought a GTX 970.
- CPU: Intel i7 4790k -- I'd still probably get this today. It's better in gaming benchmarks than the last two Intel releases pretty frequently.
- Motherboard: Asus Maximus VII Hero - I'd still get this today, or I'd get an even better Asus. MAYBE the Gigabyte that has the fancy USB that is meant for DACs (but the Asus has them too and it's BS).
- RAM: G.Skill TridentX DDR3 2400 -- This ram rules. The only way I'd get something else is if I got a processor that required DDR4.
- Video Card: Galax GTX 970 HOF -- Overkill. If I did it again, I'd get an EVGA GTX 970 FTW+ (wasn't out yet)
- SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (would prefer 512 or 1TB, to be honest) -- If I were to build today, I'd get an M.2 if I could afford it, or an 850 Pro if not.
- HD: HGST Deskstar NAS 7200RPM 4TB -- Great for always-on storage and streaming files reliably
- PSU: Corsair HX850 -- Built today I'd get their best 850 or 1000w power supply
- Case: Corsair Carbide 400R or whatever floats your boat -- they make excellent cases
- CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H60 or better. -- If you want to OC hard, get one with the full radiator (two fans) and "i" series if you get that PSU. I have the Enermeax Liqtech 240 and it's great but harder to install than Corsair.
- Keyboard: Love the Cooler Master QuickFire Rapid/XT keyboards with Cherry MX Brown. I have the tenkeyless at home and full-size at work.
- Sound Card: Sound Blaster ZxR for gaming.
Did I miss anything?
Lol! I built pretty much this exact machine in June
1. 4790k w/ corsair H100i
2. Asus Hero VII
3. 16gb 1866 Corsair
4. 256gb Fury SSD
5. 4tb Hdd
Been loving it coming off a 1st gen i7, but the improvements in gaming really came from the card more than anything (I had it in my old machine too)