Topic: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed. (Read 7423 times)

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2013, 06:35:39 AM »

I also don't understand the relevance of that efficiency curve on anandtech. Essentially, if you use that 900W PS, anything above 125W and beyond gets you over 80% efficiency. So what's the problem? So basically any mainstream to gamer PC can benefit from an efficient 900W PS. It seems to me the only argument that article is making is that you can save money by skimping on a PS as long as you only make an internet appliance for web browsing. It seems to me low power users that buy $200 PCs from Dell for web browsing or typing office docs won't even be aware that you can even buy a 900W power supply to begin with, or even what a 'Watt' is...

It's also dangerous because it's misleading recommending that users buy a PS based on idle usage. With the advanced thermal and power management inherent in modern CPUs and GPUs, you could conceivably operate above 90% efficiency to save a few pence if you spend most of your time at idle. Then load Crisis and then your PS bitchslaps your PC due to lack of headroom. Do most people keep the minimum amount of gas in their tank required for their average commute to save weight and improve mileage? Fill her up man!!

DaveBSC · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2013, 05:10:52 PM »

Quote from: Analixus on May 04, 2013, 06:35:39 AM

I also don't understand the relevance of that efficiency curve on anandtech. Essentially, if you use that 900W PS, anything above 125W and beyond gets you over 80% efficiency. So what's the problem? So basically any mainstream to gamer PC can benefit from an efficient 900W PS. It seems to me the only argument that article is making is that you can save money by skimping on a PS as long as you only make an internet appliance for web browsing. It seems to me low power users that buy $200 PCs from Dell for web browsing or typing office docs won't even be aware that you can even buy a 900W power supply to begin with, or even what a 'Watt' is...

It's also dangerous because it's misleading recommending that users buy a PS based on idle usage. With the advanced thermal and power management inherent in modern CPUs and GPUs, you could conceivably operate above 90% efficiency to save a few pence if you spend most of your time at idle. Then load Crisis and then your PS bitchslaps your PC due to lack of headroom. Do most people keep the minimum amount of gas in their tank required for their average commute to save weight and improve mileage? Fill her up man!!

Agreed 100%. PSUs typically hit their absolute peak efficiency in the middle to upper range of their maximum output, but we're talking a few percentage points at most. Should you power a <20W Atom machine with a 900W PSU? Of course not. Any type of serious gaming machine should have several hundred watts of headroom over even what the system would use running wPrime and 3dmark at the same time. Otherwise any time you upgrade to a more powerful (and more power hungry) piece of hardware, you'll have to throw out your PSU and buy a new one. That's just stupid.

Also, unlike the Kingwin hybrid PSU fans which switch on based on temperature, the Seasonic fans switch on and ramp up based on electrical load, so from a noise standpoint it makes more sense to run them at <50% capacity rather than >50%.

anetode · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2013, 11:59:44 PM »

Quote from: Analixus on May 04, 2013, 12:21:42 AM

Oh you got the OCZ SSDs that work! Does that mean they are actually defective?

You can actually get a very good ASrock borad for $120 even w/ the blingy caps and billet heatsink. Sorry, but I've had electrolytic caps kill a mobo and seen a few bulges here and there so I don't take quality caps lightly. I went with solid caps as soon as they came out and Gigabyte was the first to use them waay back to my recollection.

Quote from: DaveBSC on May 04, 2013, 01:04:10 AM

Upscale mobos are also about high quality PCBs that are thicker than a sheet of paper, and phase power designs. I haven't looked too closely at ASRock recently, but what I remember in the past were cheap ass floppy boards with shitty power regulation.

You should open a museum, you may have the only working OCZ raid array in the world.

I'm under no delusion that OCZ isn't a slightly shady outfit with poor quality control and often cutrate design. The drives were quick, well-priced, warrantied and backed up. If you feel the need to give me shit over my decision that's cool, I only brought up the drive anecdote to illustrate a different point of view.

How thick to PCBs need to be? How many phases do you need? If you're an overclocker or tournament gamer or otherwise nutty then these are valid concerns. A decade ago, when I could finally afford it, I built a dream gaming system and obsessed over part choice, component layout, etc. Sometimes even the most well-built and expensive parts failed or overclocking compromised stability to the point where it wasn't even worth bothering with, other times I invested money into features that I never wound up using. A few systems down the line and I've narrowed down what mattered to me: responsiveness, quietness, tactile/agile performance of peripherals and sufficient gaming performance. Having a couple of huge-ass 300w cards SLId no longer sounded like a good idea to me, nor did the expense & maintenance of water-cooling, nor the limited part availability of water blocks (though that's definitely gotten better). That said, your priorities may differ if you're building for a kid who would be enthused to geek out over such things. Or maxed-out Crysis on a 120hz 1600p LCD.

As for the power supply graph link: chill, it was only a suggestion to optimize (not lobotomize headroom), plus some people actually like the option of saving a few pence through minor gains in efficiency.

shipsupt · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2013, 02:48:54 PM »

I just wanted to thank everyone for the advice given here. Every post held some valuable information that was useful when making decisions on what to buy. It gave me a lot of confidence in placing the order for the parts. I expect we'll have everything within a week or so to build a pretty nice gaming PC for my son. I compared it to the built computer he wanted to get and simply it blows it away on specs and is way cheaper!

I'm looking forward to plugging everything together and seeing to come to life!

I'll try to remember to take a few photos during the assembly and post 'em here.

THANKS!

DaveBSC · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2013, 05:14:05 PM »

What did you end up going with?

shipsupt · « **Reply #25 on:** May 13, 2013, 07:34:26 PM »

Here is what we ended up with. I probably could have shopped around more, but more or less I grabbed everything from Amazon out of convenience.

Cooler Master HAF XM case
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB OC; GeForce GTX 660; NVIDIA; 1033 MHz; 2048 MB; GDDR5-SDRAM; 192 bit (GV-N660OC-2GD)
Gigabyte SKT-1155 Z77X-UD5H Motherboard
Seasonic 750W M12II Bronze Series power supply
Thermaltake Frio CPU cooler
Intel 3rd Generation Core i5-3570K CPU (4 x 3.40GHz, Ivy Bridge, Socket 1155, 6Mb L3 Cache, Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0)
8 GB of RAM (Crucial Ballistix)
Crucial CT256M4SSD2 256GB M4 SATA III 6Gb/s MLC 2.5 Inch Internal SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA HDD
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M 24 inch IPS Widescreen LED Monitor (I REALLY wanted to get him the monitor that Anax recommended, but I needed to make some budget decisions in certain areas)
4 Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm fans for the case

Hopefully there aren't too many big mistakes in there! This is his first serious gaming machine, he's been on a laptop and using consoles before this, so I figure this thing will be a huge step up. Lucky bugger, I never had cool toys like this when I was growing up!

Dyaems · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2013, 12:52:39 AM »

- you dont need a 750w psu for your rig, a 500-600w psu will do fine and will have enough for "peace of mind" in case you dont want 450w psus. a friend of mine is using a 450w psu that came with the SG05 case and 3570k @ 4.5ghz (forgot the voltage) and gtx 670 and he is not having any problems on stress tests.

the only time you will need a 750w psu is if you are going to SLI in the future!

- for the cpu cooler, if youre just going to do a mild overclock, the Coolermaster Hyper 212 evo dual fan can save you a few bucks but im not sure what is the pricing on the store you are going to buy! the frio is abit cooler though!

- the dell monitor is good enough for the GTX660. the LG monitor Anax posted is indeed better though! no need for dual/triple monitor that costs alot!

DaveBSC · « **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2013, 01:39:40 AM »

Quote from: shipsupt on May 13, 2013, 07:34:26 PM

Here is what we ended up with. I probably could have shopped around more, but more or less I grabbed everything from Amazon out of convenience.

Cooler Master HAF X case
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 2GB OC; GeForce GTX 660; NVIDIA; 1033 MHz; 2048 MB; GDDR5-SDRAM; 192 bit (GV-N660OC-2GD)
Gigabyte SKT-1155 Z77X-UD5H Motherboard
Seasonic 750W M12II Bronze Series power supply
Thermaltake Frio CPU cooler
Intel 3rd Generation Core i5-3570K CPU (4 x 3.40GHz, Ivy Bridge, Socket 1155, 6Mb L3 Cache, Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0)
8 GB of RAM (Crucial Ballistix)
Crucial CT256M4SSD2 256GB M4 SATA III 6Gb/s MLC 2.5 Inch Internal SSD
Seagate Barracuda 1TB SATA HDD
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M 24 inch IPS Widescreen LED Monitor (I REALLY wanted to get him the monitor that Anax recommended, but I needed to make some budget decisions in certain areas)
4 Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm fans for the case

Hopefully there aren't too many big mistakes in there! This is his first serious gaming machine, he's been on a laptop and using consoles before this, so I figure this thing will be a huge step up. Lucky bugger, I never had cool toys like this when I was growing up!

Not too bad. I'm very particular that my cases be inaudible so a HAF certainly isn't what I'd get for myself, but there's certainly plenty of airflow there for good overclocking. The only other nitpick I have is the Thermaltake HSF, I prefer Thermalright and Prolimatech.

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2013, 03:44:35 AM »

Interesting possibilities maybe: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ASRock-A-Style-HDMI-In,22533.html

Dyaems · « **Reply #29 on:** May 14, 2013, 05:01:17 AM »

asrock will release "waterproof" boards too!

Author Topic: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed. (Read 7423 times)

Anaxilus.

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

DaveBSC

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

anetode

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

shipsupt

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

DaveBSC

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

shipsupt

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

Dyaems

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

DaveBSC

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

Anaxilus.

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

Dyaems

Re: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed.

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Author Topic: Help a pirate out!! Gaming PC advice needed. (Read 7423 times)