Topic: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements (Read 10702 times)

Kunlun · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2013, 04:36:24 PM »

Quote from: AstralStorm on April 07, 2013, 01:10:29 AM

Oh snap, they measure much like they sound. What an unforseen coincidence.

Yes, there is some L/R imbalance in my pair, but it's nowhere near as bad as the 5k hole appears. The more evil part is the odd order distortion and upper midrange ringing.

The extreme highs are about as dropped as 5k, bit less.

Here's my personal compensation curve attached. Referenced to 500 Hz at comfortable volume of around 40 sones.

These have been reshelled once in the beginning of their life - before that, they were way, way more forward in the 3k sense.

I hear these just the way AS does. I like them a lot, too bad the new version is nerfed. I have a theory about average_joe's "the se5 magically changes soundstage" thing, other than he thinks that about every iem set he really likes: I notice that the armatures in AS's SE5 are about equidistant from the end of the nozzle. This is quite different from other high-end multi ba iems/ciems. The 8.A, AS-2 and others all really put a lot of effort into putting the treble BAs as close to the end of the nozzle as they can. These ciem makers say it makes a huge difference. So, I thinking that a_j's reporting on something that happens a lot with multi ba designs--you hear one section of the frequency response as closer or farther away than another. On the AS-2 that I have (which needs a bit of a re-fit) this is part of the design. As a stage monitor, it's engineered to bring the vocals closer to you, which is perfect for a musician performing. Perhaps something similar, whether planned or unplanned (guess the latter) is happening with a_j's se5?

Also, I'll write up a short comparison my girlfriend did for me of the se5, 1plus2 and mg6pro. She listened to them for 2hours back and forth, and just commented on what stood out to her. I'm reviewed out, so it's a bit fun.

Marvey · « **Reply #21 on:** June 24, 2013, 07:45:38 PM »

Placement of treble BA distance to low driver may result in slightly different FR from effect of tube length or other factors (mouth of the tube, speshal pathways, etc.) related to placement, but it's unlikely to have results affecting the time / phase alignment aspects given the ultra-small distances (a few mm) relative to audio wavelengths. In fact, I'm not even sure I hear changes moving a tweeter back ~25mm from the woofer with speakers.

For example, 10kHz wavelength is 34.3mm at sea level 20C. A few mm isn't going to affect phase or time alignment that much. The application of a passive crossover circuit, even first order, is more likely to muck that up because of impedance variation of the driver, and impossibility of obtaining exact cap / inductor values.

Heck some high order crossovers in speakers introduce a time delay of an entire cycle at several hundred Hz. Couple of meters? I do time align my subs with the mains, but that's on the order of hundreds of mm.

average_joe · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2013, 05:04:32 AM »

To correct some misinformation: Spiral Ears did not change their manufacturing method; nothing has changed. Also, another person on head-fi talked with all known owners of the SE5 before he purchased and found that there are only 2 people with sound issues the SE5. There used to be three people with issues, but one of the people sent his back and they were rebuilt completely which seemed to have fixed the issues. I believe Astral Storm can send his back and have them redone for free.

Also, I would love to see a picture of 2 SE5s next to 2 mg6pros and the 1plus2 to see how they all are sized...when impressions are posted, I hope the pictures are also posted. A simple phone pic will do as they are quite high quality these days.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2013, 07:58:19 AM »

I thought this is no issue, but a tuning choice. I had mine redone early, but maybe Grzegorz has improved his tech.

So yes, I'd like them back, will take new impressions (this time myself, so they will be good) and send this to Grzegorz for refit/do-over.

Then, I'll validate them by ear and perhaps send them for a measurement again.

My theory is that the "magical soundstage changes" are experienced mostly because SE-5 are linear in the mids, but have boosted bass and cut highs.
Therefore depending on the content, it will be quieter (farther) or louder (nearer).
They aren't peaky, so it doesn't sound like a mess.

Kunlun · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2013, 12:23:51 PM »

Quote from: average_joe on June 26, 2013, 05:04:32 AM

To correct some misinformation: Spiral Ears did not change their manufacturing method; nothing has changed. Also, another person on head-fi talked with all known owners of the SE5 before he purchased and found that there are only 2 people with sound issues the SE5. There used to be three people with issues, but one of the people sent his back and they were rebuilt completely which seemed to have fixed the issues. I believe Astral Storm can send his back and have them redone for free.

Also, I would love to see a picture of 2 SE5s next to 2 mg6pros and the 1plus2 to see how they all are sized...when impressions are posted, I hope the pictures are also posted. A simple phone pic will do as they are quite high quality these days.

Really? Because Tupac is the one who had two sets, one old, one new, and found there to be difference in the sound, leading him to sell the newer set. Ha ha at the idea that Tupac's sets were differently sized and your "challenge" to show pictures, although maybe you should talk to Tupac, he's friends with Gavin, so maybe he has several 1plus2's as well and your fantasy photo shoot can be fulfilled in part.

Gregorz tried to invalidate someone's warranty on HF because they had carried it around in their pocket one time., so if he's really re-doing fit for free regardless of how long they've had it, then that would be a significant change in customer service.

Kunlun · « **Reply #25 on:** June 26, 2013, 12:29:09 PM »

Quote from: AstralStorm on June 26, 2013, 07:58:19 AM

I thought this is no issue, but a tuning choice. I had mine redone early, but maybe Grzegorz has improved his tech.

So yes, I'd like them back, will take new impressions (this time myself, so they will be good) and send this to Grzegorz for refit/do-over.

Then, I'll validate them by ear and perhaps send them for a measurement again.

My theory is that the "magical soundstage changes" are experienced mostly because SE-5 are linear in the mids, but have boosted bass and cut highs.
Therefore depending on the content, it will be quieter (farther) or louder (nearer).
They aren't peaky, so it doesn't sound like a mess.

A good theory. There's some background as to why I'm making fun of AJ--you see, he found the same magical soundstage with the EarSonics sm3. There was a whole process where he tested a number of iems, the sm3 was he favorite and it had this magical soundstage that nobody else described, the process was repeated with ciems, the se5 and magical soundstage.

You SE5 is very nice, I will look forward to hearing your take on how a re-fitted set sounds in comparison to the present one.

Also, when is the AstralSonics5 coming out and can I buy one?

Kunlun · « **Reply #26 on:** June 26, 2013, 12:30:43 PM »

Am I right that making a high-end dynamic driver ciem is much more difficult to do for a small set-up versus a multi-BA design?

AstralStorm · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2013, 12:53:11 PM »

Yes and no - both require skill. BAs are way less fussy, as they don't need any vents or resonant cavities.
Damping material is also quite hard to install properly, but e.g. FutureSonics does it.

I will try to make one out of VSonic GR07 (or newer) drivers. Because I can and they're easy to remove.
Wasn't planning on even small scale production - it's more of a scientific experiment.

I am also working on getting one of those cheaper probe microphones (e.g. Earthworks M23) and building an occluded ear simulator.

Kunlun · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2013, 03:14:43 PM »

That sounds like a great thing to try, I'm looking forward to your results. Will you let purrin test some of your results?

AstralStorm · « **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2013, 03:33:49 PM »

Of course I will, no question about it.

Author Topic: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements (Read 10702 times)

Kunlun

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

Marvey

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

average_joe

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

AstralStorm

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

Kunlun

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

Kunlun

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

Kunlun

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

AstralStorm

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

Kunlun

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

AstralStorm

Re: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements

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Author Topic: Spiral Ear SE 5-way Reference IEM Measurements (Read 10702 times)

average_joe