Topic: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver? (Read 3821 times)

Kunlun · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2013, 02:34:58 AM »

Quote from: phillip88 on March 24, 2013, 02:20:17 AM

Kunlun, if there's no acoustic filter is it a good news? I mean IEM.

Well, with a dynamic driver iem, then it'll be a little less susceptible to dampness and will have all the detail the driver can put out. I wouldn't say it's necessarily good or bad as there are other factors shaping the sound, e.g. the enclosure a dynamic driver is in also shapes the sound, crossovers, etc.

For BA designs, they almost always need filters because they tend to have spikes in the treble regions. Used skillfully, filters can make for exactly the sound the designer was looking for. The ER4 is a good example of a very well filtered iem that gets a lot of praise for having a certain type of sound. I've heard a ciem designer say that he was proud to have really tamed a certain BA to get the bass sound he wanted with a filter others hadn't used, so there are many uses for filters.

To be absolutely clear though and to answer your question: The ideal case is one driver, no crossovers, no filters. That is the ideal, period. I don't think anyone believes the ideal has been reached though, so we have many ways to try to make tradeoffs to get the best sound for the price/ease-of-manufacture/durability/etc.

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2013, 03:53:33 AM »

Quote from: Kunlun on March 23, 2013, 10:08:10 PM

The Future Sonics MG6Pro has no acoustic filter precisely to maximize detail and avoid the issues I mentioned of sweaty pro musicians on tour. The FS Atrio is the same way for the same reason.

The Aurisonics AS-1b was the same way, definitely no filter. They added a filter after complaints of "shoutiness" and yes, it ate some clarity and detail.

The AS-2 dynamic/dual-BA hybrid may be filterless, I'll need to confirm that with Aurisonics.

^ Haven't heard those.

Another dynamic with no acoustic filter is the Monster Turbine Pro Copper. That's right, the mesh at the nozzle is just an acoustic neutral mesh. No acoustic filter. I confirmed that with the guy who designed them. iirc.

I guess that's true about the mesh, I assume you mean Kevin. However, I wouldn't say the MDs or Coppers are detail and clarity champions compared to other acoustically filtered BA's that do beat them even with a filter.

Supposedly, the SE5 has no filters but I'm not inclined to fully trust what most people say about it (except for Astralstorm) because of statements about the mids being magically thick/thin/forward/recessed/warm/cold/just music/etc. Astralstorm is the only person to really give a decent sense of what that ciem is like and, naturally, he got attacked on hf for it.

Yes, the SE5 uses no filters so I guess BA's aren't any more susceptible than dynamics to moisture.

The k3003's "reference" filter (or whatever they called it, the treblest one) is a non-filter. Just an acoustic neutral mesh, no acoustic filter. I actually liked this one the best--although I was listening with the ibasso t3 which has a non-fatiguing sound.

Yes, but that was a hybrid so nobody wins the driver contest there. The reference filter was actually the middle one, not the treble one but that was my preference as well. You could use tips to adapt accordingly.

As a final note, the part about acoustic filters being messed up by moisture and degrading over time is something I've heard from several sources, the heads of two different ciem companies being among them.

I agree that can be a problem, but as you pointed out, it's not really tied to one driver type over another. It's a designer's choice and not a functional reqt, so buy the design you want. Plus there is always an IEM drier or dessicant. Plus a lot of the big name pros don't even care, they go through IEMs like candy.

The components of a dynamic driver are in a softer suspension so they handle shock better but the softer materials are less durable with use if we ignore the filter argument. A cone type woofer w/ a surround is just not as resilient over time. A metal armature takes fatigue much better but due to the hardness of it's components and often the crossovers, they can be more brittle and damage either if shocked physically.

Honestly, you'll likely upgrade anyway before either wears out.

Kunlun · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2013, 04:11:02 AM »

Good points, now we just need you to pm astralstorm so he can ship you his se5 to listen/measure

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2013, 04:24:55 AM »

Quote from: Kunlun on March 24, 2013, 04:11:02 AM

Good points, now we just need you to pm astralstorm so he can ship you his se5 to listen/measure

They are on the way.

Kunlun · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2013, 05:05:20 AM »

shotgunshane · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2013, 07:27:58 PM »

Quote from: Analixus on March 24, 2013, 04:24:55 AM

Quote from: Kunlun on March 24, 2013, 04:11:02 AM
Good points, now we just need you to pm astralstorm so he can ship you his se5 to listen/measure

They are on the way.

Ah, looking forward to measurements. I've always been interested in the SE5 but impressions have been all over the place.

Helios · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2013, 01:07:47 AM »

I stand behind my previous statement.

Anyway, regarding durability:
During my tenure as a designer at one of the largest IEM mfgrs, the majority of products that failed in the field were the result of BAs that were rendered inoperative due to mechanical shock. Typically, the armature gets stuck to the magnet. I have never personally tried to un-stick an armature, but I'm told it cannot reliably be done. Actually, I think this should be explored. I have some theories on what might un-stick an armature.

Sometimes customers return IEMs that had reportedly failed due to moisture, then we dry it out with desiccant or clean with a hearing aid vacuum/dryer... et voilà! Fixed.
Really, if you're an IEM enthusiast, you should invest in a hearing aid vacuum.

The real-world data I have seen supports the idea that dynamics last longer in the field than BAs.

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2013, 02:56:05 AM »

Is the data as gross population or per capita? I don't doubt it, just curious. I presume that includes the armature getting stuck.

In theory, an armature should be pretty robust for moisture as you say, much like people that have accidentally washed their ipods or memory cards, dried them and they worked.

AstralStorm · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2013, 06:30:01 AM »

BAs are somewhat resilient against moisture, but not against dirty water or anything that might cause the drive plate to stick. It's a gap on the order of micrometers, unless said BA just uses a membrane instead of the typical metal drive plate. (often perforated)
If it's something soluble gumming it up, it might be possible to wash it out. Any filter present would protect the BA and be destroyed first.

Damaging them magnetically is pretty hard - it's balanced after all and you'd have to weaken one of the static magnets,, break the electromagnet (e.g. wire or trace) or put it in a very strong field to permanently magnetize it - hard, it's shielded just for this reason

The alternative is to send shockwave or signal strong enough to bend it - much easier.

Both drivers can be destroyed by too much heat or DC. Dynamic membrane is vulnerable to crinkling due to overpressure. The degree of this vulnerability is related to material and thichness. Any coating (with dirt or soluble contaminants) will change sound properties too, especially if uneven.
There are other parts in a dynamic driver IEM that can get damaged, such as damping rings, meshes, paper dust filters, vents.

--
SE-5 seemed to be tuned with the crossover + drivers and not the filters - I haven't noticed any. (If it's tuned at all and not just a "matched" selection of BAs.)

Anaxilus. · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2013, 06:41:44 AM »

If only I had a cheap or imbalanced BA to play with, I have plenty of dynamic Monoprices I could do physical tests with.

Author Topic: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver? (Read 3821 times)

Kunlun

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Anaxilus.

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Kunlun

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Anaxilus.

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Kunlun

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

shotgunshane

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Helios

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Anaxilus.

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

AstralStorm

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

Anaxilus.

Re: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver?

(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});

Author Topic: BA driver, is it less durable than dynamic driver? (Read 3821 times)

Helios