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Author Topic: Nonsensical audio terms  (Read 19972 times)

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shipsupt

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #160 on: January 29, 2013, 04:41:21 PM »

Is there anything in headphone response that shows any benefits to a recabling with separate plugs for each side?

It keeps your head from leaning to one side or the other...  :)p17
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Solderdude

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #161 on: January 29, 2013, 04:43:47 PM »

If this is off topic then ignore me ....

Has anyone here done any form of testing with balanced/unbalanced cables. I dared to mention once that I fancied trying a different way of cabling the headphones and almost got laughed off the forum. (Don't laugh)

Is there anything in headphone response that shows any benefits to a recabling with separate plugs for each side?

Haven't tested but my view is this:
When a HP is connected to a bridged amplifier that has a 'considerable' output resistance (>10 Ohm) there could be sonic effects due to voltage division as the output resistance doubles.
Another, technical reason, that is most appear-ant in low impedance headphones is the fact that both drivers are fed with their OWN wires (4 wires in total) where as when fed with a common 'return' wire there simply is a measurable crosstalk.
When a headphone is wired dual entry (so with 4 wires) and the 'return' wires are connected in the plug I can't see much benefits of balanced drive unless one needs the extra power as the voltage doubles (and thus the power quadruples) if that is needed.

Maybe Purrin (if he has the time and is interested) can do similar measurements as done with the HE500 on different amps, but this time balanced and unbalanced
(SPL level matched) this would answer this often asked question.
Can't do this myself, measuring rig almost finished but no balanced HP's not amps. :-[
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Marvey

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #162 on: January 29, 2013, 04:46:46 PM »

The measurements will all be the same. Seriously. I've done enough comparisons with different amps to see. As long as the amps are reasonably linear and are close enough in output impedance, the headphone measurements will be identical.
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Rabbit

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #163 on: January 29, 2013, 04:50:45 PM »

The measurements will all be the same. Seriously. I've done enough comparisons with different amps to see. As long as the amps are reasonably linear and are close enough in output impedance, the headphone measurements will be identical.

Aha. That's what I've heard as well. It's these claims of low level crosstalk being cut with no proof that I have wondered about.
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omegakitty

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2013, 05:26:48 PM »

The measurements will all be the same. Seriously. I've done enough comparisons with different amps to see. As long as the amps are reasonably linear and are close enough in output impedance, the headphone measurements will be identical.

Agreed, I don't think there's really any change in frequency response, if that is what you mean by headphone measurements. But put on a well mic'd acoustic recording and the differences are pretty obvious in resolution and imaging with certain headphones and amps... not all.

I would think the differences would be smaller (or non-existant) with the BA since it is only the OPT that is balanced, but who knows. I will hopefully get to make the comparison myself in a week or so  :wheel:
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Solderdude

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #165 on: January 29, 2013, 05:31:52 PM »

The measurements will all be the same. Seriously. I've done enough comparisons with different amps to see. As long as the amps are reasonably linear and are close enough in output impedance, the headphone measurements will be identical.

Agreed when both channels are driven at the same time (or at least have been fed the whole spectrum at full power).
3 wire cables will show (low level) crosstalk in the other channel when only 1 channel is driven.
The amplitude of this will depend on: wire resistance, HP driver impedance.
In any case it won't show in normal FR/CSD measurements at all.
The audibility of this would thus be harder to determine (in an objective matter) but as it is linear (cables simply do not add non-linear distortion) it might only influence stereo image slightly on those old L-R beatles alike recordings or show very small level differences.

The theory behind is in this article:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?82kf0r5kdckdcer
page 7 and 8
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 05:41:47 PM by Solderdude »
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Rabbit

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #166 on: January 29, 2013, 06:00:14 PM »

What an excellent article. Thanks Solderdude.  :)p3
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AstralStorm

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Re: Nonsensical audio terms
« Reply #167 on: January 31, 2013, 12:11:46 PM »

You'd need some crossovers causing weird impedance shape for any impedance to matter - high min/max spread. Or a balanced armature.

About crosstalk, it will also influence the resolution somewhat - cross-channel IMD is worse when there's high crosstalk. So the effect of it would be more audible on worse amps more.
I find the -15 dB vs -30 dB vs -60 dB crosstalk quite audible and easy to discern, with e.g. -15 dB vs -23 dB is about as easy to discern as -30 dB vs -45 dB - pretty hard. Increasing differentiation threshold, so to speak - only dramatic differences are really distinguishable.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 12:23:26 PM by AstralStorm »
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