CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 09:45:45 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers  (Read 1264 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 09:01:42 PM »

On the mention of "process": The curiosity and discovery aspect is a big part of Changstar.

I eschew labels, but if there is one which would be appropriate, it would be "relativist". The mods and long time members here have VERY different sonic preferences, but somehow we are able to establish some common ground. For example, it's hard to argue that HD800s don't sound (and measure) brighter relative to the LCD3 -or- the SRH1440 measures (and sounds) with intensely elevated mid/upper mids relative to almost any other headphone in existence.

I would also say that healthy skepticism or anti-hype (for lack of a better term) also applies here. Dis-constructing hype and pointing out the not so good while acknowledging the good was a primary driver of this site.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 12:50:14 AM by purrin »
Logged

Valentin Hogea

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +6023/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • In nomine musici
    • Headfonia
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 08:08:30 AM »

This is honestly the first time I've heard "subjective objectivist." Didn't know we were part of a movement.

We'll, that's true. I just made that up.  ;) But it felt like the most correct "label" to attach to this individual grass roots-movement, of questioning the current paradigm (which is to great extent generated by one major website and the marketing it creates for new products).

We're usually pretty cool with newcomers. Not always. Novices are always welcome and as long as questions are asked intelligently, most longer time members are patient and make sincere attempt to answer them.

I think only three people have been banned (one is a conspiracy theorist who keeps making sock accounts via proxies / VPN and is banned at several other forums, another is a HF mod who has banned by someone else than me, and yet another is some moron who kept quoting me out of context.)

Also one or two others got slammed hard for promoting certain agendas or having axes to grind (but haven't been banned permanently).

Tyll already opened the floodgates, and I'm back being more active on the site again after a month hiatus, so I think we can handle any additional load. I figure most people who want to be here or find this place a good resource are already here by now.

I wasn't aware of the people you mentioned and the ban's. But it's becoming quite clear on head-fi, that more and more "rebels" are being accused and banned. Silencing the rest that question those actions. I get it. It's not a democracy. What is a democracy btw. In my opinion, there aren't any. Some just are surrounded by a larger consensus/illusion of the people thinking it really is a democracy whilst something else is in the works in the background.

VH, Think of this site as a place for people that want to make sense of what actually makes sense... if that makes any sense LOL. In other words, Trying to understand measurements by seeing how they relate with the sound. If certain measurements don't jive with what you hear for example, then I would go with the subjective first. For noobies however, measurements might not always make sense right away so I suggest to them to listen more first before trying to make sense of the correlation of the subjective and the objective.

That is how I also view changstar. Glad we agree. And yes, you make sense.  ;D Adding some objective truth and trying to stay as objective as possible. I do some research myself. Mostly on antibiotic resistance and aminoglycosides (a type of antibiotic and their effects on the hair cells in the inner ear), and it's damn hard to always stay objective. Thus avoiding drawing conclusions that might be interpreted as causal when actually it's the mind playing tricks on the objectivity.

Typical example. Alcoholics are depressed. Did they start drinking because of a depression. Or did the alcohol lead to a depression? Still 30 years and numerous studies, both are equally true/false.


If anything about Changstar I like the fact that having a sense of humour counts too...

New members are welcome - those with agendas or who take personal offense when someone insults their gear may not find a lasting home here though.

I agree with ship that labeling this forum is pigeonholing it - it is more than that, and the membership here does have some diversity.  We also don't take ourselves or the import of this hobby very seriously, as Deep Funk alluded to. People here are very independently minded - that means no hive mind/group think, no hype or marketing affecting our opinions, and no sponsorships that may curtail us from voicing those opinions.

We're not like old people in rocking chairs yelling "get off my lawn."  You're fine on the lawn as long you don't piss on the grass.  Though our lawn is pretty open to all, we do have lawn order.

Well put! And yeah, that part sure is important. As long as the common "style" is intepreted correctly by the members. Not taking one self too seriously is the first step. And everyone here seems to agree on that one.

Also, I think you find that members talk much more about music here than at HF.

That also is a good thing. It shocks me how little the biggest part of the hobby actually is discussed sometimes.

I've figured for a while now that many here were of that camp [Subjective Objectivism, that is...]
A key difference between Changstar and other places, I believe, is that we recognize the validity of preferences but also see them for what they are... Unless one accounts for them any obtained realizations are obfuscated and unrealistic.

In summary, collective truth over blind self-fulfillment.

(I sometimes think I'm a bit the other way around: an objective-subjectivist, but that's a whole 'nother thread.)

On the mention of "process": The curiosity and discovery aspect is a big part of Changstar.

I eschew labels, but if there is one which would be appropriate, it would be "relativist". The mods and long time members here have VERY different sonic preferences, but somehow we are able to establish some common ground. For example, it's hard to argue that HD800s don't sound (and measure) brighter relative to the LCD3 -or- the SRH1440 measures (and sounds) with intensely elevated mid/upper mids relative to almost any other headphone in existence.

I would also say that healthy skepticism or anti-hype (for lack of a better term) also applies here. Dis-constructing hype and pointing out the not so good while acknowledging the good was a primary driver of this site.

Blind self-fulfillment is sometimes good. It makes the toys better. Call it childish ignorance. But a new toy sure was more "fun" when one was younger. However, this is a multi-thousand dollar hobby. Hype has it's strengths, the ones that "log out" are probably the most content music lovers. But those never spread the false truths, especially not in a way that can be changed. And hopefully they don't affect the view of too many individuals in "the wrong direction". The tricky part are the "blinded quasi-religious fundamentalist audiophiles" that preach lies to the masses. Sometimes by ignorance but mostly by crowd mentality. That's where science and objectivity comes in. And it's the only way to counter "religious" truth.
Logged
"I consider them symbols, and I leave symbols, to the symbple-minded." George Carlin

fishski13

  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +79/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 424
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 02:46:32 AM »

Val,
i can't wait to read your review.  i so want to hear the Paradox against my own modded Fostex.
Logged

Valentin Hogea

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +6023/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • In nomine musici
    • Headfonia
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2012, 08:28:45 AM »

Val,
i can't wait to read your review.  i so want to hear the Paradox against my own modded Fostex.

I'm just on guy, with one opinion. But I'll do my best to make the review as correct as I possibly can. In short I am very-very impressed. This truly is a reference headphone. It's so true to the source that it scares me. If the soundstage is wide, it'll be wide. If it's narrow, it's narrow. If it's mastered to a warm sound signature, it'll show, if it's bright... it's bright, but not piercing. Okay, sometimes piercing, but now I know it's the master and not the headphone ringing etc..

And for aprox 500 USD? Wow...

I wish I had a HP1000 too. To make the comparision to another reference hp. I'll compare it to HD800 & LCD-3 which to some extent are some of the "best" headphones currently. If we ignore electrostats and R10's and such.

But now, I gotta get some more headtime. At least 200 hs before I even draw any final conclusions...

P.S. I had a possibility to buy a HP2 for 1299 USD a couple of weeks ago from a friend. But I passed. In the future I hope to own one though. At least for a couple of months to form an opinion of it's strengths and faults...


/V
Logged
"I consider them symbols, and I leave symbols, to the symbple-minded." George Carlin

wilzc

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +10/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 12:11:09 AM »

Headfonia....

Why headfonia?

Logged

Tari

  • Poet Laureate of Changstaria
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +245/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 854
  • Is tari a wizard
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2012, 12:46:41 AM »

Because he reviews for headfonia.
Logged

wilzc

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +10/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2012, 01:33:55 AM »

With all due respect to Mike.

Headfonia's reviews are piss poor.

Like a headphone-only equivalent to CNET
Logged

Tari

  • Poet Laureate of Changstaria
  • Mate
  • Pirate
  • ****
  • Brownie Points: +245/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 854
  • Is tari a wizard
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2012, 02:01:00 AM »

This would be ValentinHogea's review, not Mike's.  Headfonia's reviews and the alleged uric content therein do not automatically dictate what a third party "guest" reviewer's content will be.  Unless you are including valentin in your comment, in which case, combining your first question with this new post, your question reads "why are you doing a review?  You suck."


If you are just afraid of Valentin being lumped in with the "rest" of headfonia by casual readers who write off whole websites and their value based on one member's contributions, not all readers make the same sweeping generalizations as you do so I don't think its a concern.



Logged

Valentin Hogea

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +6023/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 190
  • In nomine musici
    • Headfonia
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2012, 04:57:08 AM »

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. So if you don't like Mike's reviews. Feel free to do so...

I think Tari said it quite well. The though with adding guest reviewers on headfonia was to add different views from different people, especially having the possibility for double-reviews.

And last but not least me. I would never review something of which I do not feel "safe" reviewing. So, what does that mean. We'll if I review a 500-USD portable amp. I better have listened good and hard to it's most obivious competition, otherwise I feel my opinions have no value.

In the case of Paradox, I feel that I have a very good take on headphones in the 400-1000 USD price category and therefore I can strengthen the pro's and con's with it.





Logged
"I consider them symbols, and I leave symbols, to the symbple-minded." George Carlin

wilzc

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +10/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Changstar & The Subjective Objectivist Movement & New-comers
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2012, 10:17:50 AM »

I really like Mike. He and Jude are one of the biggest personalities that has influenced myself in this hobby.

However I feel they've strayed far too 'commercially' as of late. Which is very disappointing. And now that he's become a retailer, even more so.

Most of headfonia's reviews feel somewhat 'controlled' and 'coloured'. I'm not sure what V's Paradox review would do there. People may start to question the price of Luis' mod versus the stock. I don't think the Paradox was ever intended for commercial scale anyway, so if the review creates a decent amount of hype, Luis' would be rather busy indeed.

In any case, changstar has survived Tyll's introductory post. Won't hurt to get influx from Headfonia, although I really think the headfonia crowd is much less receptive of objectivity.

The double review thing would be interesting. I'd like to know what the rest of those guys have to say about something like the Paradox. Although one can already predict their rebuttal.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4