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Author Topic: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)  (Read 516 times)

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socrates

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Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« on: December 05, 2012, 03:01:40 PM »
Okay, dudes, so* can someone with, like, the proper test gear FINALLY quantify the following nagging Q's:

++ Hair between pad (cushions) and head (dummy plastic and/or natural skin/flesh/bone) -- even with non-sealed cans, how does hair caught between pad and head affect FR/CSD and/or SQ? Purrin' ... can you test this on your dummy somehow?

++ Pad deformity/shape -- many foam types flatten over time changing interface geometry. Not sure this is good or bad ... e.g., flatter (worn out) pads do close transducer/ear gap (this may be good or bad). On the test dummy, you many want to "simply" clamp ear cups in a bit more.

-------

* I resisted the temptation...
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 06:20:58 PM »
We've seen artifacts from a stray hair or two.  Of course we clean it up and remeasure and dump the old capture, so.....


Tyll, I believe, did a pad compression article w/ measurements if I recall.
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Marvey

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 06:34:03 PM »
  • Pad compression makes a difference. The closer the driver to the ear, the more measured bass.
  • A clump of hair will interfere with the seal. Seal is tends to be more critical for closed headphones than open headphones (for obvious reason). This is actually a great idea - to measure with hair. Sometimes I get too much seal and actually program the compensation curve to take away bass... Other times I get too little seal. I'm sure Tyll knows what a pain it is trying to get consisting seal and bass measurements.
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jerg

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 06:40:30 PM »
Quote from: purrin on December 05, 2012, 06:34:03 PM
  • Pad compression makes a difference. The closer the driver to the ear, the more measured bass.
  • A clump of hair will interfere with the seal. Seal is tends to be more critical for closed headphones than open headphones (for obvious reason). This is actually a great idea - to measure with hair. Sometimes I get too much seal and actually program the compensation curve to take away bass... Other times I get too little seal. I'm sure Tyll knows what a pain it is trying to get consisting seal and bass measurements.

Well typically it is the upper part of the earpads that come into contact with hair that's right above the ears, so you could just adhere some hair at those locations of the dummy, see if it does what you expect (a bit less bass).
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 07:51:05 PM »
Why does seal matter more with closed headphones?  I can't think of why that would be...

Except that closed headphones often have pads that are designed to seal for isolation, so they are designed and tuned with a seal in mind, so you break the seal, and it's then not operating in the right environment.  And open headphones often have velour or other pads that don't seal as well in the first place, so it's not a big factor.
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jerg

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 09:12:07 PM »
Quote from: rhythmdevils on December 05, 2012, 07:51:05 PM
Why does seal matter more with closed headphones?  I can't think of why that would be...

Except that closed headphones often have pads that are designed to seal for isolation, so they are designed and tuned with a seal in mind, so you break the seal, and it's then not operating in the right environment.  And open headphones often have velour or other pads that don't seal as well in the first place, so it's not a big factor.

One exception would be Audeze headphones. Especially LCD3s which have been reported as having too good of a seal causing some vacuum effects on certain owners' eardrums.
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 09:14:57 PM »
Orthos are different, or usually are.  Audeze are more traditional, and are damped and require a seal.  Hifiman is doing god knows what with no damping and a bad pad seal. 

Generally orthos need a good seal.  Sometimes you can get away with not having it though, and there are lots of benefits. 
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gurubhai

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 09:25:28 PM »
Most older orthos didn't have enough bass to get away with having no seal. The newer orthos really shouldn't have any problems pulling off 'leaky pads' with their huge drivers, it really should make an interesting experiment if someone tries some velour pads on an Audeze phone.
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Cristello

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 09:28:26 PM »
Quote from: rhythmdevils on December 05, 2012, 07:51:05 PM
Why does seal matter more with closed headphones?...

closed headphones often... are designed to seal...
so, they are designed and tuned with a seal in mind... you break the seal, and it's then not operating in the right environment...

Exactly. Think of a sealed cup as a small chamber with higher pressure then the surrounding outside air.
If the driver is heavily relying on damping from the internal cup pressure, then changing that pressure slightly will either:

A)change sound in accordance with the impedance curve whilst simultaneously reducing overall SPL
or
B)leave the driver under-damped  :gross:


I'm assuming that Audeze is using pad seal to "mass"-damp the front of the driver, and HifiMan is going straight for optimal driver tensioning...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 07:54:50 AM by Cristello »
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rhythmdevils

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Re: Hair & pad deformity vs. FR/CSD (& sonics)
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 11:35:32 PM »
Actually Hifiman's newest 2 orthos don't use damping at all.
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