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Author Topic: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements  (Read 11764 times)

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Marvey

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Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« on: November 12, 2012, 07:05:36 PM »

Frogbeats C4 Measurements.


(right channel was NOT intentionally reduced 1db per older measurements. Cut-off at 9kHz intentional. Read IMPORTANT NOTES.)

Couple of observations:
  • I did not hear the dip at ~3.5k. Only had it for a short time and I had to jam LFF's custom C4s into my ears. Best to ask LFF on the audibility of this dip. It's very possible it could a measurement artifact. I initially thought it could have been a mis-wired crossover, but the C4 is using one of those Knowles units with a combined M/T.
  • Very clear sounding. More clear than the UERM. Has that purity that the ER-4S has.
  • No lack of bass extension perceived. I think it's more a matter of a little mid-bass which I feel most IEMs, especially of the ba type could use.
DECAY MEASUREMENTS: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,626.msg13669.html#msg13669
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 04:16:32 AM by purrin »
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 07:34:37 PM »

I'd like to spend more time w/ them for sure.  They sounded good.  If that dip from 3-4khz is real its far less trouble than the Heir trough on the 4ai.
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Marvey

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 08:01:24 PM »

The Heir 3 and 4s were weird. The 3s were less weird.
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Kunlun

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 11:20:47 PM »

LFF reports the 3.5 drop out in this hf review. I was a little concerned reading it. I wonder why it's there? Won't some soprano/violin notes  and resonance get eaten a bit?
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Kunlun

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 11:27:32 PM »

Follow up: Is this drop out part of how Knowles is engineering new armatures?

I remember a conversation with a ciem designer who was talking about how the use of various acoustic filters was necessary with BAs or they were ear-piercing. The trade off was that filters are sensitive to moisture and wear out. Also, they can eat some of the detail resolution. Having said that the ER4 is filtered to hell and nobody compalins about the detail...

Perhaps newer armatures like those used in the se5 and C4 get around that at the cost of having troughs built right into the treble.

By the way, could we see the 4.ai charts for comparison?
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zowki

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 11:37:28 PM »

According to the graph the C4 doesn't extend to 10KHz. Isn't this very concerning? Do you hear the lack of treble extension?
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Tari

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 11:39:39 PM »

Purrin cuts off the graph at 10Khz as he feels the data collected there is unreliable.
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tomscy2000

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 03:38:14 AM »

That chart, if I take into account for purrin's graph responses to typically have that thingy at 2k, and translate it into something that's more along the lines of an Zwislocki coupler response, it looks really similar to the 4.Ai. Perhaps things look a little different due to the custom shell vs. universal/silicone, but it looks really, really similar, honestly.

I also took a look at the pictures Rakan posted in that other forum, and the C4 uses the same stuff as the 4.A/Ai; it's a TWFK and DTEC --- I'm almost absolutely sure. Sure, there are many variants of both the TWFK and the DTEC, but the amplitude of that notch at 3.7k tells me that the TWFK used in the C4 is more similar than not to the 30017 generic version used in the 4.A/Ai, as well as the peak forms of the area from 5-8k.

Knowles has been working hard to improve that 3.7 notch, so no they're not 'building it in' the TWFK; I interpret it as a difficulty in aligning the impedances of the FK and the WBFK without showing the steep drop in output below 4k in the WBFK or introducing a huge phase difference between the two drivers. Its latest versions have much less of a notch and less of a strident response in the highs, but it becomes more sinusoidal in response. Anyhoo, the notch becomes much more apparent when you apply any simple 1st order RC high pass.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 04:36:08 AM »

You'd need to look the 4ai graph on the same rig.  The 4ai is the most overpriced, under-performing FoTM I'm seeing on the threads over at the other place today.  It's suckout is massive and the overall signature is something I would not pay over $100 for.  As many problems as I had w/ the UM Merlin demo unit, the 4ai loaner was much worse.  The only way for me to enjoy the 4ai is to listen to music that avoids 1-5khz.
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Marvey

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Re: Frogbeats C4 IEM Measurements
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 04:43:49 AM »

I'll dig up an unofficial measurement and hide it in this thread.
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