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Author Topic: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)  (Read 459 times)

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Marvey

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 08:14:04 PM »


IEMCrazy
Today at 12:21 pm
Yeah, I know the whole jitter thing is definitely overblown.  Or at least for non-USB is overblown.  But I'm thinking between a digital transport, and an EQ, there's probably some noteworthy jitter going on by the time it gets to the DAC.  Or in this case the DEQ/SRC outs.
 
I'll definitely let you know how the comparison goes.  I'll probably compare it to Bifrost and the mighty WDS-1.  Not a fair contest there between a $170 DAC and a $1200 DAC, but it'll be balanced vs balanced where Bifrost vs SRC is balanced versus unbalanced into MJ (whenever I get the MJ in... )
 
For pro audio gear, cheap or not, I'd think "textbook" is the way to go.  I would have thought it comes down to component quality from there.  Inventive is for audiophile fluff-pieces like my WDS
 
A lot depends on the tubes in question, too...the PCC88's in the Lyr just have a habit of being noisy period.  Between hiss, whines, and whistles, it takes a lot to find a quiet pair, and I realize not all tubes are like that.  I was interested in WA22 as well as MJ originally but decided I just don't want to deal with noise floor issues and tube rolling for my more expensive rigs.  Even if those tubes are a lot less prone to noise issues.  That and, who knows when tube stock/pricing will just become too problematic.  If todays tubes/prices were around forever....  I think I'm prone to pick up on any tube noise and let it drive me crazy.  Others tend not to hear the odd whistling I tend to hear...but those darned GEs picked up that faint "whine" that would fade in and out after a month or two of use over several pairs before I found one that didn't.  One of mu Tungsram sets got crazynoisy (hiss.)  One of my Matsus and both of my Mullards are clean though.  No doubt the high gain is the core issue there though. Lyr made a horrible mistake in being so high gain.  Trying to target HE-6 was a loss, and that left only HE-5 and HE-4 as the only ones that needed that high a gain factor.
 
That makes Statement sound like a super-Lyr.  Heck if it weren't for fear of blowing them, I'd just plug HD800 into my 7025 too.  The 7025 + WDS-1 is an amazingly clean sounding setup for an all-SS solution.  But 140wpc, even with mild resistors is just a little too scary for the 300ohm 106db@1W HD800   Statement was intriguing me for a while, I know there were rumors of both an SS and a tube version....but that of course, is rumor!
 
Hmm, warmer & lusher than Bifrost?  That's got to be pretty lush...   Then again the PM6004 is a very lush amp and IMO that made it a poor choice for HE-6, and an ideal choice for HD800....were it not for the odd crackle issue with low input signals and high output impedances.  I'd be very happy with that amp were it not for the that strangeness I experienced.  But if that's the case then maybe DCX/SRC + MJ would be a good HD800 match.  IMO. When EQ'd, I'm learning to love HD800, however, while I love it's high detail out of the WDS-1, I tend to like it with "mushier" amps to make it feel less "headphone synthetic" and a bit more speaker-like.  Since MJ is supposed to be anything but mushy, a mushy DAC could be a good mix...
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Marvey

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2012, 08:25:54 PM »


purrin
Today at 1:24 pm
Yeah, there's something up with USB. I not totally convinced it jitter has 100% to do with it. Heck, the PWD1 used an off-the-shelf USB receiver, and its USB implementation was great. (That is no wierd USB/Coax dongle thingies necessary.)
 
Even if there's jitter at the source, an ASRC chip before the DAC will sort that out. I've found that transports do have their own sound. Even with the PWD2 (or Genesis) Digital Lens (or other FIFO buffers) in between to kill jitter, digital transports still do have their unique traits which seem consistent from DAC to DAC.
 
Do you think the Lyr really had too much gain. I was OK with the Lyr and Grados. But some of this could depend on how hot the DAC outputs are.
 
I think you may just like the HE-6 as it (I prefer to EQ slightly and I have some issues with its etch). Then again, I've measured two HE-6s and one was brighter than the other.
 
I get you on the HD800 and making it more lush. A cap coupled tube amp is interesting on the HD800. Gives it more of a Mercedes Benz feel.
 
Check out this circuit: http://sound.westhost.com/project100.htm for running the HD800 from your power amp safely.

[REDACTED] All the rumors are true. [REDACTED]

Forgot to mention, if you have the O2, swap out that POS voltage gain opamp with a LM4562. It helps a little with the "dry and analytical" sound.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 08:50:05 PM by purrin »
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maverickronin

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2012, 09:28:39 PM »

I just noticed that the DEQ2496 can be controlled via MIDI commands and that the Arduino has a MIDI library.  Sounds perfect for that pre-amp/source selector project of mine.

 :&

I might have to mod mine too if I get one.  A little cursory reading suggested that they issues with the power supply getting too hot and crapping out.
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firev1

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 04:55:49 PM »

Only a little worried about the quality of Behringer's had some of their stuff broke on me before. Then again a mod will probably solve most of the issues.
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TMRaven

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 01:08:56 AM »

What about changing the opamp of the O2 makes it less 'dry' sounding?  Is it that it has a different frequency response compared to the original, which measures dead flat, or are there other things at play?
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Sforza

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 01:37:40 AM »

What about changing the opamp of the O2 makes it less 'dry' sounding?  Is it that it has a different frequency response compared to the original, which measures dead flat, or are there other things at play?

In terms of the measurements, a bit higher distortion but still well below the audible threshold. They're on HF somewhere.
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Marvey

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Re: A good PM exchange I had with IEMCrazy (posted with his permission)
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 02:15:00 AM »

The initial Behringer quality was bad. It turned out (as discovered on the DCX2496 Yahoo boards) that the soldering on the back of the PCBs for the output boards were touching the chassis. The PCBs would over time sag down or either the sheet metal warp slightly upward over time. The solution was simple. Line the back 1-2" of the bottom of the chassis with non-conductive material. At least this was the case for both of my units.

I don't know why op-amps sound different when X, Y, Z measurements indicate distortion is below audibility. I don't think the Objective2, as spec'd sounds that bad, although I admit I prefer the LM4562 in place of the voltage gain op-amp. The differences are minor. It's still an Objective2.

I am of the opinion that there are a lot more other measurements (or ways to present measurements) than most people talk about. And that X, Y, Z measurements, while they may provide certain indicators, even strong ones, may not provide the entire story.

You guys should read about Doug Self. History does repeat itself. Or either Doug Self has found an apprentice.
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