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Author Topic: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)  (Read 82756 times)

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Anaxilus

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #160 on: February 11, 2014, 10:37:30 PM »

Lol, let me finish up with Bay Area meet this weekend first.  I plan to have a few units in other hands for secondary impressions soon. 
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Stapsy

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #161 on: February 11, 2014, 11:27:08 PM »

 :)p1  :)p7  headbang

I was just about to rework the mod for a better fit in my HD800, glad to hear it is coming along!
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Darth Obvious

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #162 on: February 19, 2014, 11:31:20 AM »

I would like to ask for some more detailed commentary about this kind of HD800 modification...

So far, I've tried the Tyll's version of this mod and while I can appreciate its approach, I felt that it takes too much air away, makes imaging and 3-dimensionality less apparent. The sound was too damped. I also found vocals to be closer and sound a bit harsher and sibilant... That said,  bass was more present due to less airy highs and improved uppermids/lower treble balance and background was logically blacker (less air, more damping) - I believe this is gonna be fine for the majority of people.

I even tried to modify this Tyll's modification because I saw some potential in it. Basically, I wanted to damp the sound a bit at the sides (to make them sound less diffuse and decrease perception of air a little bit) without having HD800 sound too closed-in in terms of soundstage width, and I wanted to make vocals be more distant and smoother again. I quite achieved this by using only the "connecting part" between ring and trapezoid...



...basically, I achieved a bit of damping, making sounds coming from left and right less diffuse without taking away too much air. Skipping the ring part of Tyll's mod made the vocals sound smoother and more distant. Imaging and soundstage were more or less fine... Though still wasnt (and am not) sure completely about that.

However, when I tried the HD800s without the mod and WITHOUT DUST COVERS (so nothing inside the cups), I was basically blown away... I have never heard as holographic (deep!) and precise soundstage in a headphone! Vocals were the most distant and most clean, sibilance the least obvious, the feel of "acoustics" is simply impressive... and the detail was improved... basically, I can hear EVERYTHING now in my music and I feel the same way weeks after I found this (Senns now just sound so clear and display every nuance with ease while still authentic enough). I feel that this is the most uncompromised sound I have heard with HD800 so far. I can feel that there is a bit more air going on than would be ideal and sound signature/FR is a bit brighter (thought it's almost the same as the stock config., really) but this is really nitpicking in comparison to how compromised the stock and Anax modded configuration sounded to me.

I want to clarify that I hear the ringing of HD800, occasionally, regardless what configuration I use (stock/no dust covers/anax)... That said, I have heard ringing with every headphone I have had a chance to listen to extensively (for several days at least). And I believe that this article is right: http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2013/01/sennheiser-hd800-part3-in-depth.html
... it's just impossible to completely eliminate it.


Therefore, I would like to ask, is this mod able to make HD800 sound more right in uppermids/low treble (+ possibly decreasing air a little bit) without taking away imaging precision, soundstage dimensionality (especially depth!) and smoothness (especially in vocals, as I said before)?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 11:41:33 AM by Darth Obvious »
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Marvey

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #163 on: February 19, 2014, 06:27:42 PM »

I hate to disagree with you, but Rin is wrong about not being able to tame the 6k peak. I've noted that Rin has a tendency of coming to conclusions way way too quickly, and oftentimes misconstruing coincidence as causation. (He's still inexperienced.) One really cannot come to conclusions about the HD800 by poking a hole in one cheap Kobitone driver and noting how it measures.)

In any event, did you see the measurements in the first post? Absolutely NO trace of that 6k peak, although there is still a slight upwards slope in the treble. The reason this version of the mod hasn't been released by Anax is because of some of the issues that you mentioned: loss of air, openness, etc. You gain some, you lose some. Anax wanted it all.

I'm not giving Anax's secrets away, but I would say continue to play around with materials, location of materials, be willing to deconstruct the earlier version of the mod you are using, etc.
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Stapsy

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #164 on: February 19, 2014, 11:36:42 PM »

Welcome Darth Obvious,

It looks like you were using felt?  I haven't tried felt but the Creatology foam and shelf liner ring was fairly successful for me.  You can check it out using the links at the beginning of the thread.  If you want a more open sound try using only the ring of shelf liner (and the trapezoid piece).  Depending on your amp you might find it works for you.
 
Can I ask what amp/dac you are using.  With the built in solid state amp in my Anedio D2 I found the full mod was necessary.  I never got around to trying the stock HD800 with the Vali, but with my EC2A3mk4 I am not finding the issues with treble as large.  It isn't too strident but still a bit bright for me. If the mod is closing in the sound for you it might be advisable to try a high quality tube amp to take the edge off.  As Purrin says, my experience has been there is always going to be a trade off with these mods. 
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Darth Obvious

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #165 on: February 20, 2014, 10:21:46 AM »

I hate to disagree with you, but Rin is wrong about not being able to tame the 6k peak. I've noted that Rin has a tendency of coming to conclusions way way too quickly, and oftentimes misconstruing coincidence as causation. (He's still inexperienced.) One really cannot come to conclusions about the HD800 by poking a hole in one cheap Kobitone driver and noting how it measures.)

In any event, did you see the measurements in the first post? Absolutely NO trace of that 6k peak, although there is still a slight upwards slope in the treble. The reason this version of the mod hasn't been released by Anax is because of some of the issues that you mentioned: loss of air, openness, etc. You gain some, you lose some. Anax wanted it all.

I'm not giving Anax's secrets away, but I would say continue to play around with materials, location of materials, be willing to deconstruct the earlier version of the mod you are using, etc.

Thank you very much for replying... To be honest, I dont really see a way how to completely eliminate the ringing even though I've seen the measurement and its for sure very very promising (though I am not sure whether I would prefer the Anax 2.0 or this upcoming 3.0 mod, both looking very nice). That said, I suspect my ears (especially the right one) is overly sensitive and therefore I can really hear resonances even with headphones like LCD-2 or similar non-fatiguying offerings.

I am trying to do what you suggest... I experimented with the Tyll's mod, deconstructed it, tried to find a spot-on positioning etc. but I am still not completely convinced (and yeah, I still hear some ringing occassionally - less pronounced but still). I've tried some other materials but no luck so far (the Tyll's version worked best). It would be nice if Anax could finally share some wisdom... I am not located in the States and therefore it's not easy for me to get various materials and experiment. Even the Tyll's mod was quite difficult for me to finish due to this fact and therefore I would rather know that I am spending my money on materials that are going to work. Anax, judging by your comment, has a very similar opinion (and goals in mind) about HD800's modification and therefore I will most probably wait...

Welcome Darth Obvious,

It looks like you were using felt?  I haven't tried felt but the Creatology foam and shelf liner ring was fairly successful for me.  You can check it out using the links at the beginning of the thread.  If you want a more open sound try using only the ring of shelf liner (and the trapezoid piece).  Depending on your amp you might find it works for you.
 
Can I ask what amp/dac you are using.  With the built in solid state amp in my Anedio D2 I found the full mod was necessary.  I never got around to trying the stock HD800 with the Vali, but with my EC2A3mk4 I am not finding the issues with treble as large.  It isn't too strident but still a bit bright for me. If the mod is closing in the sound for you it might be advisable to try a high quality tube amp to take the edge off.  As Purrin says, my experience has been there is always going to be a trade off with these mods. 

I've tried to use materials that Tyll suggested (so 2mm foam + 1.5-2mm felt)... and I as well tried the felt alone (2mm) but i t didnt work (no improvement, I thought it was even worse than without it). Though I havent tried 2+2mm foam... Should I?

I am using Yulong DA8 (fully-balanced XLR preamp out to HD800) and along with the rest of my chain, I feel no fatigue from HD800's upper-mids/treble frequency response (I just hear the ringing but it's alright most of the time)... But only if I use my whole tuned audio chain (including audio PC etc.) and listen to lossless quality music (genre or level of compression does not matter much). Once I switch to my "compromised" listening chain = music of youtube quality + onboard soundcard toslink out -> toslink input of DA8, it hurts my ears quite a bit.

I honestly don't like tube amplifiers... I am happy with the DA8 (those balanced preamp outs are really great - the most expansive and defined soundstage I have ever heard, no mid-fi quality).

What I am trying to figure out is whether I should try hard to mod HD800 to get the best sound out of them (I mean the best possible balance between technical and natural?)... Or whether I should buy a second-hand HE-500. I like its FR but otherwise, they are not on par with HD800... And therefore I am not sure whether they are worth the money (especially considering the fact that I would have to pay 600USD AT LEAST to get them since prices are higher here and importing from the States means additional costs).
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Marvey

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #166 on: February 20, 2014, 04:09:36 PM »

The upcoming 3.0 is based on the 2.0 mods. Use shelf liner. Try different kinds.


The peak can be made to completely go away. But the HD800 will still be bright.
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Darth Obvious

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #167 on: February 20, 2014, 05:03:58 PM »

The upcoming 3.0 is based on the 2.0 mods. Use shelf liner. Try different kinds.


The peak can be made to completely go away. But the HD800 will still be bright.

Thank you again for responding... Alright, I am going to try shelf liner in a few weeks (thanks a lot, Stapsy!) :-)

Looking forward to hear more about 3.0 anyway!
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Stapsy

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #168 on: February 21, 2014, 01:22:54 AM »

Darth has peaked my interest in fiddling with this mod again.  I spent last night listening to the stock HD800, then a couple hours tonight with just the outer shelf liner ring.  Does anyone else find that the HD800 sound a bit diffuse in comparison with the modded version, or the inverse of that, they sound fuller with the mod? 

I find a larger difference than just the FR response change when it comes to the mod.  I used to long for that openness again but the fuzziness in the imaging without the mod was annoying.  The sibilance didn't even bother me in the treble.  I am not very good at figuring out what it is.  My hypothesis is that it is the excess treble or the ringing evident in the CSD that is interfering with the rest of the sound.  Thoughts?
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Marvey

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Re: New upcoming HD800 mod... Rabid Dawg ][ (anax 3.0)
« Reply #169 on: February 21, 2014, 01:31:36 AM »

My guess is that the shelf liner helps to reduce reflections from the metal mesh - which contributes to the fuzzy diffuse sound.
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