CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?  (Read 9121 times)

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Joe Bloggs

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2012, 04:50:08 PM »

I agree that it is more practical in the long run to mod the headphones. But I don't think that was an echo canceller or predictor structure. That more than likely was straight FIR convolution to the impulse response which did not took into consideration non-linear distortion and positional variations.

Oops.  I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought xnor did it that way.  It seemed pretty clear to me that it was a straight FIR convolution.

I was just throwing out an idea that worked on a similar principle.

It was also stated by xnor to be a minimum-phase only deconvolution, not a full deconvolution.

I think it's interesting as an indicator of how good the impulse response can theoretically get if you only use EQ. (rather than say stick a mic between the headphones and your ears and run DRC-FIR)

18 replies to my first post in this forum while I was away, cool :)p4
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ultrabike

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 06:34:57 PM »

There is one headphone that comes across as almost linear phase (non-minimum phase) from IF impulse response inspection that I find interesting: The Shure SE535. I haven't heard it, and I have comfort issues with IEMs. However, some people think it's quite good, while others think it's kind of meh... Not a consensus fail as the Ultrasone and the Denon Buger King though...
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maverickronin

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2012, 12:52:24 AM »

There is one headphone that comes across as almost linear phase (non-minimum phase) from IF impulse response inspection that I find interesting: The Shure SE535. I haven't heard it, and I have comfort issues with IEMs. However, some people think it's quite good, while others think it's kind of meh... Not a consensus fail as the Ultrasone and the Denon Buger King though...

It's got 3 drivers and a 2 way crossover to introduce all kinds of phase oddities.  For example, here's a 2 driver two way that looks a bit linear phase

I do like the 530 and 535 quite a bit FWIW.

It was also stated by xnor to be a minimum-phase only deconvolution, not a full deconvolution.

I think it's interesting as an indicator of how good the impulse response can theoretically get if you only use EQ. (rather than say stick a mic between the headphones and your ears and run DRC-FIR)

Well the acid test would be wedging that filter somewhere in between the Arta's signal generator and the headphones.  Anyone know a way I could do that?
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ujamerstand

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2012, 01:18:45 AM »

Does ARTA's built-in FR compensation use a fir filter? If it does, measure the phones, take the data and save that as .frd format, then use that as the FR compensation file. You'll need the full version to save though, and it might not work as intended.





I don't know. DRC the damn thing and use MATAA's CSD plotter?
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arnaud

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2012, 03:07:09 AM »

I have some idea there, I might give it a shot  :)p1
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Joe Bloggs

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 04:02:36 AM »

Any progress arnaud?  :)p17
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wiinippongamer

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2012, 04:19:10 AM »

Looking foward to hearing more from this too.
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Solderdude

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 06:37:37 PM »

I am with Maverickronin on this one.
The way I see it (and was often told I was wrong) if a driver swings out, this could be compensated by applying the 'opposite signals' (motion feedback/noise cancelling principle but done differently)
This would have to be done at all the specific frequencies or in very narrow bands, when non-active feedback is used and that would amount to a lot of computive power to modify the incoming signal to the 'needed one'.
Also each headphone would have to be compensated individually (look at the DT1350 choclats), not to mention diafragms changing properties over time or temperature change would do to the original compensation.
Another thing..... will the headphone actually sound ideal as well with all these 'modifications' of the original signal ?
Test signals perhaps.. music unsure.

Strange plot it cannot be just FR compensation but time domain must be addressed as well (for the ringing) otherwise a simple EQ would have been enough and it isn't for the 'effen ringin' IMO.

If it were that simple to create the perfect headphone there would have been handy sellers that were already selling headphones with built-in active compensation for large sums of money as they would be very easy to make and sound 'perfect'.
No such thing yet.  :-X
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 05:08:49 AM by Solderdude »
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ultrabike

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 06:14:17 AM »

If it were that simple to create the perfect headphone there would have been handy sellers that were already selling headphones with built-in active compensation for large sums of money as they would be very easy to make and sound 'perfect'.
No such thing yet.  :-X

Most HP manufacturers don't even damp the cups of their mega-buck products. Furthermore, active headphone compensation, with in the headphone, would require delivery of power to the headphone which in some portable applications may not be practical... That said, the outlook maybe changing, this looks promising if properly implemented: http://www.parrot.com/zik/usa/touch

Also note that Frequency Response (phase and amplitude) and Impulse Response are duals. For better or worse, if you mess around with one, you mess around with the other.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 08:41:11 AM by ultrabike »
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Solderdude

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Re: Convolve CSD plots with minimum phase FIR filter?
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 08:49:55 PM »

Indeed.

Most HP manufacturers are their to make a buck.
Pull some dough out of our pockets with the highest possible revenues coming their way.

Some companies (HifiMan, Audeze e.t.c.) seem genuinly concerned about making good sounding headphones.
Yet I believe they too will never market a digitally compensated headphone.

If I had enough knowledge of digital filtering I would design something for it, I doubt however these headphones would sound flawless and ideal though.

Anway... I enjoy my music over my headphones already.. no harm in trying to improve fidelity though.
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