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Author Topic: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)  (Read 1364 times)

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frogbeats

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2012, 08:23:19 PM »

If the guys return them can't they switch or they are offered ?

I had the jh16 but it turned to be worse deal I ever made, soundwise it was good. Even though I got them for 650€ when the euros was going strong I had fit issues and their customer service was beyond awful. I lost count of the time I sent it, they never read my description of the problem and would do the wrong retouch and even sent it one time with the wrong drivers so I just sold it.

Being in Europe and personally participating in the forums gives me confidence so I'm definitely interested.
Hows the refit policy and how long it takes ? Also is there a possibility to have the molding silicone tips similiar to what westone has ?

Not really possible with CIEMs and reviewers. Once they are given to the reviewer, they are theirs to keep and we can't really take them back and make any use of them. So it's not really a benefit to us to ask for them back and replace them with another model. In addition to that, we'd rather the reviewer had all the models side by side to do a comparison.

Sounds like you have had an awful time with JH, which is surprising, but there are always cases, granted.

Love to participate directly with customers and be straight up front, few companies do that nowadays and it annoys the hell out of me. We're pretty transparent when it comes to everything so you're welcome to ask as many questions as you like.

The refit policy is 30 days from receiving the CIEM we will refit for free. Shipping costs on you, naturally. After that it will be about 50EUR (just doing a quick mental currency switch here) to refit.

We will not be supplying silicone anything with the CIEMs due to the hard process it takes to merge silicone and hard acryllic and create a perfect and seamless connection between both. The truth is it's an unstable method and can lead to cracking and problems, so it will always be full acryllic shells.
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Anaxilus.

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2012, 07:24:50 AM »

@psychadelic whale


Westone doesn't use silicone tips to be clear so there isn't any misinformation about construction quality.  It is Vinyl specifically chosen for it's properties which are more resilient if you read the link I posted earlier.  They have the sole patent and proprietary knowledge of how to fuse the tips and shell together to my knowledge.


Myself and purrin heard the C4's today and even thought we could not get a proper seal we both know where LFF is coming from.  Things like imaging are impossible to know using someone else's custom but timbre, tone, balance and clarity were very positive aspects that a properly experienced IEMer can gather under these less than ideal circumstances.  I would like to hear how well they image and how transparent and resolving they truly can be.  I'm always looking for that last bit of information retrieval. 


We did snag a measurement and the channels match very well which hopefully will be maintained on a production level and not just for reviews.   ;)
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Marvey

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2012, 04:32:31 PM »

I would like to confirm that these are a win! Actually a hair clearer sounding than UERMs. I wouldn't recommend that UERM owners chuck them in the garbage and order these, but I do feel the C4s should be a serious consideration. Measurements very very soon.
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anetode

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2012, 07:19:35 AM »

David, what are the characteristics of the bass boost on the C5s? (magnitude, q, starting point)
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maverickronin

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2012, 05:14:38 PM »

David, what are the characteristics of the bass boost on the C5s? (magnitude, q, starting point)

I'd be interested too.

I might be buying a custom in the near future.
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frogbeats

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2012, 10:07:27 PM »

It's not so much a bass boost. The C5 has a lower sub bass range. We've still kept it fairly flat in comparison to the C4, however it has a wider frequency response - as shown on the details. I am well aware that requests for frequency response graphs and the sort will be thrown out there, but I'd like to clarify now that we won't be supplying such graphs and it will be up to the discretion of the reviewer to do so (and to clearly comment that frequency response graphs differ from what you hear and what you perceive).

The main reason for that is that it causes pointless arguments about what people see on the graph and what they actually hear, and it's a completely negative outlook for us and a pain to start arguing back and forth. As seen with several threads on HeadFi, frequency response graphs lead to more issues than clarifications. What you hear is what you hear, and if someone says they are great, then there is no need to start analysing a graph and diluting it to the bare essentials. If someone says they are bad, then same applies!

Hope you guys understand. More than happy for reviewers such as LFF to post stuff like that up measured with their own equipment, but CIEMs are a touchy issue with this as they can change from one to another from the manufacturing process (as can colours, shape, etc).
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wiinippongamer

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2012, 02:11:11 AM »

What a man says sounds good can sound like utter crap to another, the difference in the ear anatomy from one person to the other are big enough, measurements are the ONLY way to judge a particular piece of equipment's sound objectively. It should be research first and then subjective impressions, not the other way around. Many people can't simply try them to see if they like them before buying, much more so in this case.
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maverickronin

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2012, 04:12:33 AM »

What a man says sounds good can sound like utter crap to another, the difference in the ear anatomy from one person to the other are big enough, measurements are the ONLY way to judge a particular piece of equipment's sound objectively. It should be research first and then subjective impressions, not the other way around. Many people can't simply try them to see if they like them before buying, much more so in this case.

I do agree with this in principle and I wish more manufacturers released more data on their headphones but...

Due to the complexities of measuring headphones there will be plenty of idiots who don't know how to interpret the data properly who will then whine endlessly about what they don't understand.  Given that, it's pretty understandable why most manufacturers don't provide FR graphs.
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wiinippongamer

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2012, 04:38:06 AM »

I agree with you also, but I'm not criticizing their decision to not post graphs but it was just the "if someone says they are great, then there is no need to start analysing a graph" part that didn't fit too well. No disrespect meant for the manufacturer , I certainly appreciate them being more up-front with their customers.
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Marvey

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2012, 04:45:46 AM »

It's one of the reasons why I provide commentary with each graph. I really think it's necessary to have the subjective angle and specify whether things indicated on the graphs are heard or not.
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