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Author Topic: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)  (Read 1364 times)

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frogbeats

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 11:32:59 AM »

Hey guys! David from Frogbeats here...

Thought I'd chum by (I've lurked these forums now for a while, less and less time to be an active poster) and answer some of your queries.

Few things I'd like to clarify firstly, with regards to prices:
I realise the prices are higher than what you would get in the US, however we were basing our prices on the UK/EU market, where CIEMs in general are much more expensive (just look at the UM prices in the UK, or ACS for a 3 driver CIEM -- retailing at £699 for a 3 driver). It's very hard to match pricing from the US (even with normal retail products like we have stocked for a year) so we try to do our best to keep it on an even playing ground. What I mean by this is that for the price hike we'll try and get the best quality out of the products, and importantly, the service provided.

Anyway, enough blabber, I just wanted to "try" and justify the prices. It has been a huge uphill battle releasing these, but we are confident they are going to shine.

The C5 does have more bass than the C4, however I wouldn't move it out of the general "neutral" area. It is still a neutral CIEM (I have it), just that it has that bit more oompf. We thought we'd vary our product selection with the mid product being the completely neutral one so that artists that maybe can't afford the high end can get the best one for monitoring.

The point of the Frogbeats Customs is not going for the maximum number of drivers, but rather the best options for the drivers we offer. The C5 has the same configuration as the ES5.

The reason LFF didn't receive the C5 is because I have followed his reviews since he started writing them on HeadFi and have noticed a general trend in liking complete neutrality and so I thought it would be more appropriate to send him the C4s rather than the C5s... I think I might have made the right decision! The other reason is that we want 3 completely different views on the Customs from 3 different sources, so the opinions are honest, unbiased (we hope) and gather different followings. The C3 has been sent to Mark2410 whom we've had a long relationship with in reviewing our normal retail products, and the C5 is being sent to AverageJoe. The costs it has incurred on us to get the samples means that we simply can't afford giving the 3 models to each reviewer. Not now anyway. Main reason why we are literally completely out of stock on the website of anything else :( Makes me sad.

As for a universal demo .... This is something that has come up extensively now and I'm working on seeing what can be done about it. Right this moment it's not a possibility (because we've barely got the Customs out of the door), but I'd say near future anything can happen (as well as universal IEMs...). I'm willing to dig deep and try anything new with Frogbeats, so happy to hear suggestions about anything really.

Group buys.... http://customs.frogbeats.com/group-buys

That's a general idea of what the group buys can get you. However we're more than happy to hear out requests about discounts and better group buys (if necessary, however I think they are quite reasonable in comparison with other companies).

Individual discounts will be available on official launch and if any of you guys want to know about them (I never like advertising or posting on forums about discounts) then email me or PM me about them. The official launch should be no later than this Friday with a newsletter. Frogbeats' goals are to try and make the CIEMs available to as many people as possible.
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FrenchChemist

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 12:02:06 PM »

Thanks David!

You call the C5 high end and not the C4. So, I gather the C5 is not just a different flavor than C4 and should be better. What is the superiority of the C5 over the C4?
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MuppetFace

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 12:07:42 PM »

Thanks for the info, David.

The C4 sounds really intriguing to me, as it satisfies the two things I look for the most in a listening device: a relatively linear sound signature and very holographic / spatially well-defined presentation. The latter issue has kept me from exploring the UERM.

My biggest issue however is that I just really dislike the whole "customs process." I've had bad experiences in the past with audiologists and fit issues (my ears seem to transmutate every few weeks and change shape... lol...).

I'm definitely looking forward to any headway you make on getting a universal version of these. I'd definitely recommend looking into it. Right now it's an emerging frontier, what I call "universalized customs," and a lot of people on head-fi have asked me about products like the FitEar TO GO, which is basically a custom-type shell and same multiple driver array that is given a universal shape. Also Heir has launched some universalized customs recently.

They'd be really, really popular I bet.

For now I'll consider getting some ear impressions made if I hear more positive feedback on these.  :)p1
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frogbeats

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 12:58:55 PM »

Thanks David!

You call the C5 high end and not the C4. So, I gather the C5 is not just a different flavor than C4 and should be better. What is the superiority of the C5 over the C4?
I think there was a general misunderstanding here. Both are high end products and sound great, but naturally the C5 is our top-tier model so we've worked on making it the best out of the 3. However take the "best" remark with a pinch of salt, as with everything under the audiophile world, this is purely opinion based and you might find that people think the C4 is better.

At the end of the day, these are different sound signatures so there's no fair way to compare. The C3 and C5 have similar signatures, just that the C5 is a good bit better (hence the price and number of drivers).

As we've wanted to get these out to reviewers first, I've held back on manufacturing 3 for myself to give you direct comparisons, so I can only go from the dummy shells I tested a while back. Superiority isn't a word I would use, but the C5 has a better bass extension and tends to have a fuller sound. Marginal differences at best, which is why it's the sound signature change that is the important point. When it comes down to that, it's a matter of opinion rather than what is best.

@ MuppetFace

I completely understand your issues with impressions and fit, and I have some strangely shaped ears which has always made universal IEMs a problem with me (and I've been through hundreds now from the start of Frogbeats). I had fit issues with moulds I got from ACS, and was wary about the process again, as I am sure you are. However I went to a new audiologist and discussed the impressions in depth to get the best ones possible and my C5s fit snuggly without an issue. Ears do change over time, but every few weeks?! That sounds crazy. It wouldn't surprise me, however, that that has something to do with the temperature of your surroundings. There is a noticeable change in fit when you're cold or warm. I guess all I can say is that a better audiologist might be your best bet, but finding one is always an issue!

I am sure they would be very popular, which is why as soon as I can sit down and have some time to think through the options I'll look into it all and see what we can do about it.
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FrenchChemist

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 01:31:11 PM »

Thanks for the clarification, David: on the Frogbeat website it was unclear whether the C4 was inferior to the C5 or just a different flavor.

I have no experience with customs and just a little with IEM (got a pair of Shure 530). I don't know whether I will experience fitting problems like MuppetFace but I'm willing to take the chance since the sound is great (there aren't that many products highly recommended by LFF  ;)) and exactly what I'm looking for.

Anybody in Changstar interested in a group buy for the C4?  ahoy
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frogbeats

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 01:41:19 PM »

Thanks for the clarification, David: on the Frogbeat website it was unclear whether the C4 was inferior to the C5 or just a different flavor.

I have no experience with customs and just a little with IEM (got a pair of Shure 530). I don't know whether I will experience fitting problems like MuppetFace but I'm willing to take the chance since the sound is great (there aren't that many products highly recommended by LFF  ;)) and exactly what I'm looking for.

Anybody in Changstar interested in a group buy for the C4?  ahoy
That move was essentially deliberate. We want people to make their minds up based on unbiased and clear reviews of the products, rather than us classifying them as "superior" or "inferior". It's hard to do so with CIEMs and we don't want to start causing a stir when people think the C4 is better than the C5 or vice versa. We've tried to be as objective as possible when selling other companies earphones and will maintain the same stance with our own Customs. I've been an enthusiast for a long time and the last thing I want to see is "better" and "worse" categories being listed on the site. One is more expensive, yes, and is our "flagship" but what that means, can be interpreted differently by anyone.

We are planning a more descriptive page for the Customs, but it's been hard work up till now so I'm trying to collate everything and get it all down and ready.
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sachu

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 04:15:28 PM »

I would have liked ot listen to this..kinda spendy to buy blind for IEMs given how many choices are out there.


If we can get a group buy going for the price they have advertised, which works out to about 600$..i'll seriously consider the C4.

"what's that you got there matey??"..i've got C4 in my ears chum! How cool is that"..barring the being arrested for scaring people into thinking you got plastic explosive in your ears lols

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Questhate

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 04:20:18 PM »

The fact that they asked LFF to do a pulled-no-punches review shows what confidence they have in their products -- considering how candid he can be for shitty products (HD700, Audeze).

The fact that LFF is so floored by these things has me interested now. The price is surprisingly reasonable too all things considered. (EDIT: silly me, converted Euro rate and not GBP rate). 

Dammit, I don't need two pairs of customs. Must resist.....

If this 10+ group buy were to happen, I'd opt for the C5 since it seems like more of a counter-point to the UERM. I seriously hope there aren't 9 other people interested. I should be saving money.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 10:43:41 PM by Questhate »
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Lurkumspect

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 08:27:55 PM »

I'm lurking so hard in this thread right now.
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Questhate

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Re: Review: Frogbeats C4 CIEM (special preview for pirates only!)
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 08:29:19 PM »

Maybe David can answer this...

Would the group buy be valid if we ordered a variety of models? Say... 2 C3s, 5 C4s and 3 C5s? Or is it only valid if we order 10 of the same model?
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