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Author Topic: HD800s out of a speaker amp  (Read 2775 times)

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RexAeterna

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 12:53:52 PM »
Quote from: Elysian on June 30, 2012, 06:04:22 PM

Rex: Perfect!  I already have a pair of XLR to speaker taps made for the HE-6, and will figure out how to do that for the HE800.  The HE-6 was pretty straightforward for obvious reasons.  I wonder if the HD800 and other good dynamics will be any more complicated, as I'd rather just order the parts separately from Redco.

it's actually pretty straight forward hooking headphones to speaker amps. people just make it sound more complicated than what it really is. you can even do it a ghetto way if your headphone uses balanced 4-core 1/4'' jack( akg is known to make their studio headphones balance since the sextetts. reason other companies don't do this anymore is beyond me) is make a female 1/4'' trs to bare wire adapter for testing. just have to make sure the amp itself has common ground(it should since most amps do).

as long as the headphone is 4-core( has no common ground. uses negative for left and right channel. negative/cold acts as a ground as well) you can drive them from speaker outs. i like 4-pin xlr configs since it's less weight and easier to keep the headphone single ended if you really wanted it to. for wiring i use the k1000 manual as reference since it has wiring scheme in the manual for 4-pin xlr.

dual 3-pin xlr is straight forward as well. i just use whatever wire i use for positive to the 2 terminal and negative to the 3 terminal. so be:

1- nothing

2-positive

3-negative

the negative will act like a ground as well and on power amps the negative terminals are usually grounded as always. i like balance headphones and find they image better since both the left and right mirrors each other like speakers. not like headphones using common ground where the left and right plays completely different things. i find that bit weird since i'm so use to old studio headphones(which naturally use 4-core wiring and balanced) and naturally balanced headphones.
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''I'm a music lover. Not an audiophile.''

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''I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.''

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Elysian

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 07:39:23 PM »
I think I'm following what you're saying.  Would you mind if I restate what you posted point-to-point to make sure I'm not misinterpreting?

- For a headphone that uses a common 4-core 1/4" jack, I can make my own 1/4" female jack->speaker taps.  The catch is that it'll only connect in 3 places (L+, R+, and common ground), as opposed to the normal 4 (L+, L-, R+, R-)?
- Common ground is where L- and R- are combined, and will generally be a different connection on a speaker amp?
- For the 3-pin XLR, I'm confused why it would be (1-nothing, 2-positive, 3-negative), rather than (1-L+, 2-R+, 3-Negative).  The 1-nothing is throwing me for a loop. Does that mean 2 will have both L+ and R+ combined?

It looks like the HE-6 may finally arrive tomorrow, CEE TEE's been kind enough to lend me 4-pin reterminated HD800 tomorrow, and a First Watt J2 is coming on Tuesday :)  As long as I'm very careful with the volume, the headphones will be safe?
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RexAeterna

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 10:40:05 PM »
4-core means 4 wire(l+,r+,L-,r-) ect. when i mention amp needing a common ground is not the same as headphones. the 1/4'' thing is 4 wires. left and right positive separate but on the ground terminal on the trs jack the 2 negatives will be soldered together making a double common ground if i'm making sense here. you hook it up normally like any speaker or whatever. you know when you see the amp.

the 3-pin config is cause you use 2 xlr jacks. each for left and right. you know how dual 3-pin xlr headphones look and you see what i'm talking about. you only require positive and negative for the xlr jacks. it's pretty straight forward and simpler then it looks.

4-pin xlr jack is when you require all 4 wires(l+,r+,l-,r-),ect soldered.
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''I'm a music lover. Not an audiophile.''

''The World is Study.''

''I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.''

''Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.''

Elysian

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 11:49:10 PM »
Ahh, that makes a lot more sense now.  Thank you.  Just saw some pics of balanced HD800s and saw that they have 3-pin XLRs coming out of each earcup, so the nothing/positive/negative makes sense now.  I'm too used to the pre-terminated HEs and LCDs.  The speaker amps I've been looking at all have separate L/R for the ground, which is why I was unfamiliar with the common ground term.

I appreciate the clarification.  Now, to find a good SS preamp... too bad the First Watt B5 is a bit pricey.
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RexAeterna

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 12:44:25 AM »
glad you know now! if you want cheap and have different loading if you get into vinyl the kenwood c2 basic is well sought after preamp. lot people in the ortho crowd and at audiokarma loves the basic preamp series. they use to have a very high price in used market but has calm down a lot lately. i found a C2 for 65 bucks in perfect condition. i have to say it's pretty transparent preamp and pretty much disappears and acts nothing more then a gain for the power amp. i really like mine. it's insanely quiet too.
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''I'm a music lover. Not an audiophile.''

''The World is Study.''

''I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.''

''Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.''

fishski13

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2012, 10:58:57 AM »
Quote from: Elysian on July 01, 2012, 11:49:10 PM
Now, to find a good SS preamp... too bad the First Watt B5 is a bit pricey.

you don't want the B5 - it's an active crossover for OB type speakers.  the B1 would be more appropriate.  since it's a unity gain buffer and not an extra gain stage, you would have some extra play/distance with the volume pot for driving HPs.  my B1/F5 sits at 9-10 o'clock when driving my K702.
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Elysian

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2012, 08:11:11 PM »
Yeah, I just read the manual for the B5 and realized that wasn't what I'm looking for.  I may pick up a B1, though the new price is a bit above what I"m looking to spend for a new unit (especially given the price of the Axiom, Goldpoint, and Promethius).  I'll probably be hunting around for a bit longer for a good active or passive.

Btw, how do you like the F5 for driving headphones?  I read some good things about the F1 on the other site.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 08:15:10 PM by Elysian »
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fishski13

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2012, 01:24:54 AM »
i've only plugged my K702 into the F5/B1/BM DAC1.  i've also inserted a couple of other HP amps that have preamp outs in place of the B1.  the K702 sounded great, but it's way over-kill for these HPs.

with a gain of 20dB or 10x voltage gain in the J2, i would strongly recommend a buffer or passive without gain.  if you get too much gain on the preamp, you won't have much for pot play and volume control.  the B1 has independent pots for each the Left and Right channels - not my cup of tea having to turn 2 knobs.  also, they're linear PEC carbon pots that are a little too soft and warm for my tastes.  i built my B1 with a single PEC stereo pot and ended up replacing it for an Alps.  the world is your oyster and no need to spend a lot.  i would also be leary of stepped attenuators with only 24 steps.  IMO, the volume control is much too coarse with too large volume jumps from step to step.  i would make sure you could "try before you buy".

from what i have gleaned, it appears that the J2 is DC coupled without blocking caps.  personally, i would check DC offset on turn-on without HPs attached and watch how fast it settles.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 01:30:29 AM by fishski13 »
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Elysian

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Re: HD800s out of a speaker amp
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2012, 07:54:50 PM »
Well, I just picked up a Placette Active to manage the volume.  Complete overkill for this application, but at least I'll get to hear the source and amp without any coloration.  I've been curious about the Placette for a long time, so I'm looking forward to hearing what it'll do.  The price was right, and apparently the build quality is top-notch.  It's too bad that the stock B1 has independent pots.  That's a major downer for me.  The Placette will eventually be part of a speaker rig, but for now they'll help with ortho experimentation.

Thanks for the heads-up about the J2.  To be safe, I'll power it on without headphones attached.  I figured it was okay since people say there's no sound from their speakers upon powering the J2 on.
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