CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Spending more on an amp then headphones  (Read 6511 times)

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Prydz

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Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2015, 08:48:17 PM »

Aside from the need for a pre or passive attenuator, I agree that the Pass amps are great solid state options.  For those on a budget, the complete Pass amp camp kit is like $300?  F3, among other, clones are also quite cheap and pop up regularly used on audiogon/audiomart/craigslist for those who want prebuilts but don't want to invest in the real deal.  I have an F3 clone sitting next to me right now in the office.  Gets hot enough to cook an egg on but sounds really good.  Supposedly even pairs nicely with hd800's but I haven't gotten around to building a new XLR to speaker tap adapter.   

Ive heard the F3 isent that great with HE-6 bcuz of some voltage stuff.
F6 isent the best either, but it sounds blood damn good. Apparently the F1J and SIT amps are the IT amps from First Watt.
But they are also very expensive.
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DubiousMike

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Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2015, 07:01:18 AM »

Ive heard the F3 isent that great with HE-6 bcuz of some voltage stuff.
F6 isent the best either, but it sounds blood damn good. Apparently the F1J and SIT amps are the IT amps from First Watt.
But they are also very expensive.

Notwithstanding xenophon's post about how he drove the f3 to clip with he6's during a high volume "torture test," other experienced listeners and posters have reported very good things about the f3/f3 clone -> he6 pairing.  See, e.g., (1) http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones#post_7144509 , (2) http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/945#post_9219123 , (3) http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/1515#post_9629691 .xenophon also sort of recants at the end: http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/3360#post_11032419

It is also supposed to be great with hd800's - which I tend to believe based on the slight triode like characteristics and sound signature with speakers.  I don't have he6's, but I will try to remember to report back on the match with hd800's and 650's once I get around to making another adapter.

No doubt the F1J and SIT are great, but at 5-10x the cost of a clone or amp camp kit.  Would love to hear the former though at some point!
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Prydz

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Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2015, 08:48:47 AM »

^
Thanks for links!

I'm currently testing the F6 against INT-150. They are close, but the F6 just has some special things about it.
It sounds so full, delicious and effortless
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audiofrk

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Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones
« Reply #93 on: September 28, 2015, 06:42:31 PM »

Gumby can throw the ratio out of whack because of it's value and high performance / dollar. Still, if you've got Gumby, you really should be running an amp that will take advantage of it's capabilities.

As far as the distant break points, put the figures in Excel and interpolate.

My reasoning was as follows:

1] Headphones will be the most colored piece of gear in the audio chain. We can discuss this all day, so we won't. Pick this first for obvious reasons.

2] DACs sound closer to each other than not. Differences between DACs are more easily heard with more resolving gear.

3] Thus don't bother with DACs at the low end or even entry level. Use what you have handy or can get for free from friends (iRiver Soviet iPod, sound card, old HeadRoom BitHead).

4] As an aside, because of #1 and #2, so called "objectivists" claim there are no DAC differences if three or four measurements don't show nonlinear behavior past certain thresholds. Of course this has nothing to do with science since these "objectivists" have not heard any of the gear in question nor have they conducted experiments to support their hypothesis. They demand experiments of high rigor (DBT, 0.01db volume matching, etc.) from those who they disagree with, while accepting less rigorous "experiments" (anecdotes) from those they agree with: "I conducted a blind test of the ODAC and the Benchmark DAC1 and I couldn't tell the difference from my Objective 2 amp, which we all know is nearly perfect and transparent".

5] As we move up to higher fidelity headphones, the immediately weak link seems to be amplifiers. Many headphones, such as high efficiency orthos and moderate efficiency traditional dynamics, love amplifiers that can provide clarity, power, control, dynamics, articulation. There are some exceptions. Grados and certain Audio Technicas, because of their super efficiency, may not sound any better with an amp. These kinds of headphones require extremely resolving amps, not necessarily power. But in general, more power is better, but only if we can maintain resolution, clarity, low distortion, etc.

6] At some point, between roughly $2000-$3000, the source starts to become more important, as important as the amp or even slightly more, just in case. IMO, in the initial or medium stages, source should take a back seat to the amp because an amp's sonic colorations are more obvious.

7] Finally, for some headphones, spending more on amps won't matter after some point. They won't scale. All you will get is something "different" (nothing wrong with that, just be cognizant of it and don't let HF convince you otherwise). Same thing for amps. After some point, DACs won't matter if your amp can't reveal the nuances of what the better DACs are capable of doing. The above, #2 and #5 is why Gary at HF didn't find any distinguishable differences between most of the DACs he auditioned. He used an LCD3 (presumably degraded) and a speaker amp.

8] Another approach is source first. Maybe a small business in a nice small town just north of El Lay made a kick ass DAC (or two) which is universally agreed by everyone as to have an extremely high performance/price ratio. Might be a good idea to start with that.

This needs to be a sticky on the new site
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Pyruvate

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Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones
« Reply #94 on: September 29, 2015, 05:47:57 AM »

Definitely.. and forget such thing as "best headphone of the world" .. that does not exist.

There's only "personal preferred headphone for me and the music/recordings I listen to" . understanding there's no "world champion" headphone  is the best way to enjoy happily this hobby .

Too bad Music Alchemist won't accept this...

Music Alchemist is the biggest tool on HF. His constant praise for headphones which he has never heard and disdain for headphones which he spent a couple days before selling is everything that's wrong with that site.
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atomicbob

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Re: Spending more on an amp then headphones
« Reply #95 on: September 29, 2015, 02:32:37 PM »

This needs to be a sticky on the new site
I agree with audiofrk, this should be a sticky, where ever it may be found.
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Marvey

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