CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Author Topic: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!  (Read 16194 times)

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lm4der

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #240 on: September 25, 2015, 04:18:50 PM »

And- if you are nice in real life but talk on the internet to people like NOBODY that I would hang out with or keep in my life, I think you need to ask yourself if that's the best way to be.  There's relaxed hanging out and then there are racial slurs and needless personal attacks that are just bullying and throwing weight around.  That's not "persona".  That's persona non grata to me.

Bingo.  Thank you.
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lm4der

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #241 on: September 25, 2015, 04:39:14 PM »

Some of us have families, friends, jobs...things that we can't or don't want to do without.  I am not sure where you base your self-worth, but having good ears does not give you a pass to be an ass.  You may think that you have a group of friends that validate you- if nobody says that certain stuff is not acceptable in their life.  Before I walk away, I want to speak up.  We have all made real connections and built these sites and had great events and huge enjoyment from the gear and the sound.  But let's have a place where we can hold bad gear and bad actions accountable.  Quirky gear that still has it's pluses along with it's minuses is cool.  When your minuses outweigh your pluses by a longshot and you are bad for the site, we should tell you.

Also this ^^.  Well said.
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Marvey

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #242 on: September 25, 2015, 04:54:09 PM »

Where ever I have worked, I have always sought to improve things, to improve process. Looking at how others did things. Running this site is not any different. This is a good time for change.

There are things that I really like about the site: the in-depth analysis, the measurements, the weaving in of the subjective, the experience of many, the disagreements (on audio gear). Now there are things I don't like about the site... the meltdowns. And there are the funny un-PC things that make this site what it is.

It's all context. OJ's guide on headphones where he labeled the HEK "Ching Chong"... really pushing it, but I'm OK with it. I even gave that post a tacit OK with a follow up statement. It was funny. I'm mostly ethnically Chinese, and I think we need to be able to laugh about certain things sometimes. Now the random: "Jew" "Jew" "Jew". Umm, that might not be appropriate at the new site.

You guys want to know what sites I really like? Vinyl Engine and Steve Hoffman. I would like the new site to be somewhere in between what Changstar is like right now and those sites (minus all the meltdowns.)

I don't think there's anything wrong with these guidelines: 1) Try to be nice; and 2) Don't be an asshat.

For those who are worried about the gentrification of the new site, closely examine those words above and you'll understand that we really won't be much different.
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Skyline

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #243 on: September 25, 2015, 05:46:46 PM »

So I'm reading more and more posts and it's obvious some of you guys don't get it. I should have left for work a 1/2 hour earlier...

This is hard work and requires a lot of dedication. Seriously... some you guys are so worried about the new site turning into HF while I am writing up on measurement standards for headphones, DACs, and amps so Hans, Ultra, and I can produce more consistent, comparable, and better quality measurements? While I am trying to work with TheGame to come up with a moderation style that won't destroy the spirit of this place while keeping the xnors, Jazz Casuals, and PC police out? While I am spending bloody days looking for the right platform that will serve us for the next 5-7 years? Really, just trying to take a more professional approach. A lot of the material here is difficult to approach.

What is wrong with you people?

Maybe I'll just hit the button to refund everyone and say fuck it.


Marv, I was pretty annoyed reading all the posts, too.  People get their panties in a wad over the dumbest things.

Don't let it get you down, though.  It's pretty obvious what you're trying to accomplish here, and I'm very appreciative of your efforts.

If people want a place where they can say whatever they want, be rude to others, and make people feel intimidated, then they can go make their own sites and have fun with that. 

At the end of the day, they'll likely be there by themselves. 
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lm4der

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #244 on: September 25, 2015, 05:52:41 PM »

Honestly I don't think that Changstar has a problem with political incorrectness, irreverence, and passion.  I don't think anyone needs to worry about that going away or changing much. And I don't think that is what this is all about.

The problem is that there really are, for real, some people who don't know the difference between passion, argument, off-color, etc, vs abusive. Some people here think that attacking someone with personal insults is all a part of normal, heated argument.  They defend their own behavior as such.

Here is a hypothetical exchange to try to make this point:

[person x]:  "I think that <insert controversial political opinion here>" (examples:  "Hillary is the best/worst, guns are good/bad, abortion is right/wrong, Justin Bieber is so hot and and I want to bear his children and I like the way he dances doesn't everyone zomg)"

Now here are two possible replies:

[person y] "Wow, I don't get how you can even go there.  I really strongly disagree with this because my values are such that [insert some value proposition contrary to person x]. Doesn't it bother you that this could lead to a whole nation of Bieber fans and the downfall of Western Civilization?? Oh too late."

OR:

[person y] "Wow, you are so frickin' stupid.  Don't you have a logical bone in your body?  Go back to school and learn how to think.  And while you are at it why don't you fuck yourself with a chainsaw, asshole. In your asshole, in case I wasn't clear.  Oh yeah, and because... cuz, HITLER!!"

Some people truly think that the 2nd example is justifiable and part of passionate discussion.  It's this inability to distinguish that I think is why change is necessary.  Some people don't get it.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 06:16:26 PM by lm4der »
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Azteca X

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #245 on: September 25, 2015, 06:36:02 PM »

There are many times where I will take a glance at the Shoutbox and promptly close out of the site, or read that one thread I am following, because I just don't want to wade into it. People keep invoking "freedom of speech" but this is a community on a privately-owned website. If you disrupt the discussions and bonds necessary to form a pleasant community that serves the members as a whole, you are not helping. Sure, speaking your mind about topics outside of audio can contribute to building a community, but if you speak your mind in such a manner that you discourage others (and this is regular others, not oddball fringe cases) from participating, you are taking away more than you are giving. And to be quite frank, I do not come to a headphone-audio-centered site to discuss abortion, or whether or not we are too "PC," or whether Mexican immigrants are ruining the country, or any other group of immigrants is ruining the country, or whether or not we should be in Iraq blah blah....I read newspaper articles, I have a Facebook where I can link to things and comment, I have pals I can discuss things with at the local watering hole or their place. I am not someone who wears blinders and doesn't want to encounter other people's opinions. Still, when your opinions are extreme and involve what many consider a dehumanizing approach to the world, you are making people like me say "I don't need this. I come here to talk shop about audio and music, maybe crack a joke or two about someone's taste. I have enough nonsense and blowhards in the real world, I'll pass."
Whoever talked about saying things you would not say in real life, that's exactly it. And maybe Mike or the others who can react with hostility would speak just the same face-to-face. But you know what? I wouldn't want to stay at a bar where some guy is trying to coax me into an argument or shouting match about subjects that carry a lot of emotional resonance or are extremely polarizing. If someone was doing that at a party I was hosting, I'd tell them to cool it and then I'd tell them to leave. They very well might scream "censorship, political correctness, fascism!" as I walk them towards the door, but guess what? They can still say whatever the hell they want on the street, in their home, whatever. Just not in my home, and preferably not where I like to spend my time. If it gets to be too much, that place will no longer be where I wish to spend my time.
If people want to discuss political issues so badly, they should consider joining a political board, or using Twitter to speak with journalists, policy wonks and the like (as I do on occasion), or engaging folks on Facebook.
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frenchbat

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #246 on: September 25, 2015, 07:03:02 PM »

Marv' if I didn't think this community was able to pull together towards a cool place, I wouldn't have contributed. I won't add anything over what's been said before as there are some points I share.

People are always afraid of change at first. Don't pay attention to this knee-jerk reaction and keep going. When we don't go forward, we start going back.
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Hands

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #247 on: September 25, 2015, 07:10:57 PM »

All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.
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jexby

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #248 on: September 25, 2015, 07:32:27 PM »

Hands is obviously eager for a good
 :spank:
now and then.
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thegunner100

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Re: Future of Changstar / Keeping it Going / GOFUNDME!
« Reply #249 on: September 25, 2015, 07:36:23 PM »

All hail TheGame, our new Big Brother overlord and master! May he ever keep us in line.

 walk the plank2
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