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Author Topic: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA  (Read 1458 times)

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frenchbat

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TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« on: August 22, 2015, 01:23:38 PM »

Sorrodje kindly suggested that Negura and I do a comparison between his TotalDAC A1 and our Thetas, and sent it over during his vacations so we had some time to evaluate it.

The TotalDAC A1 is a discontinued model, that precedes the actual D1 flagship. It's a coax input, single ended output DAC, nothing fancy. According to Sorrodje it's still kinda available, for a discounted price from the MRSP, by phoning the owner of the company.

Here is my system :
Windows 8 dedicated hardened partition
WaveIO Usb2Coax convertor with Sigma11 5V LPSU
Theta Gen Va (XLR)
Ragnarok
Balanced HD800 (rugliner modded)

Tracks used (mostly)
:
Dire Straits - Water of Love & Sultans of Swing (Dire Straits album UICY40008 DR14)
Dire Straits - Money for Nothing (Brothers in Arms album UDSACD2009 DR16)
Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem (The Raven album DR13)
Eagles - Hotel California (Hell Freezes Over album DR10)
DaftPunk - Get Lucky (RAM album HD Master DR8)
Eric Clapton - San Francisco Bay Blues (Unplugged album DR11)

At first, what stroke me was the slightly brighter tonality compared to the theta, which admittedly is neutral but on the bassy side. It makes for an interesting mind trick that makes you think it has gobs of details. This is a known trick however and I don't think it'd fool anyone here for more than a short period of time. I also noticed that the output of the A1 seems slightly higher than the theta, and I had to adjust the volume to get a more even comparison. I didn't test with a multi-meter, for lack of time and competence/lazyness, I'm no EE, but I'll have to learn it some time. Anyway on the ragnarok, the difference was roughly 2 notches. It's easier to single it out with the relay dial. So once these details ironed out, I felt I was able to make a better comparison.

Tonally speaking, the A1 is correct and instruments sound the way they are supposed to. Being a R2R DAC, there's no digititus or weird stuff here. However the explosivity of the theta shines and sweeps the floor with better transients and impact. On a second note plankton is missing, and this has 3 consequences :

- Spatial cues are missing a bit, notably the resonance of the instruments in the room.
- Delineation of instruments is not as good as the theta.
- 3D image is flatter.

Notation WRT Theta

Tonality :
4,5 / 5, the Moffat bass is hard to beat.

Detail retrieval/Macrodynamics :
4 / 5, theta’s explosive transients make a better delineation of instruments. Examples : guitars in Money for nothing and Sultans of Swing, Hotel California.

Plankton/Microdynamics :
 3,5 / 5, plankton is better resolved by the theta. Examples : resonance of maracas in the room in Spanish Harlem, batteries and percussion in general. The space cues are missing a bit.

Spatialization :
3,5 / 5, it sounds a bit like music is played in a dead room, hence a flat image. However the soundstage is homogeneous and not blobbed.

Engagement :
4 / 5, tonality and lack of digititus makes it enjoyable. The theta is one notch higher on this with the micro details and transients.

Blackground :
5 / 5, I didn't feel any major difference between the two.

Impact :
4 / 5, theta has more impact due to clearer attacks and faster transients.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:44:58 PM by frenchbat »
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Negura

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2015, 01:42:47 PM »

MSB UMT transport (Coax, AES) LAN streaming
Theta V A (Spdif & AES)
TotalDAC A1 (Spdif)
modded HD800s, modded HE-6s

Tracks used: Both high quality and random compressed stuff (the latter mostly EDM like The Prodigy and Infected Mushroom)
- When Time Turns Around album (Ewen Caruthers, Stockfisch Records)
- 30 de Marzo, Syf (Rodrigo & Gabriela, Foc album)
- Diana Krall - Temptation
- Leonard Cohen - Amen - Old Ideas
- Pink Martini - Pink Martini - 2009 - Splendor In The Grass album
- The Prodigy, Infected Mushroom

How does the TotalDAC A1 sound: it sounds R2R alright, but surely not amongst the most resolving, open or airy R2R DACs out there.

Tonality:
I'd say both the Theta V A and TotalDAC lie on the warm side of neutral. The MSB transport has the sound closer towards neutral, whereas my eSound cd player and IFI ILink more towards warmth. This is one of the reasons I did not use the latter for either of these DACs for the comparison, plus the MSB transport really show cases a different level of performance with both DACs.

I'd say the Theta has, only comparatively, more neutral vocals, while the TotalDACs' are more coloured, but at the same time the voices lack some presence on the latter comparatively. Interestingly the Total DAC's treble is a bit brighter sounding, but not airier. There's no glare or harsness at all with either of these DACs, and I did not expect it either.

Sound stage:
The Theta has a large, open and airy sound stage. The Total DAC A1 sounds more congested and flatter. Theta wins this handily.

Resolution:
The Theta resolves more and quite significantly so. That is both macro-details, but in particular micro-details. It's the latter where the gap is at its biggest. Some spatial and ambient cues are not there at all with the Total DAC.

Imaging:
Imaging is better with the Theta, with more precise and focused instrument edges.

Overall clarity:
The Theta sounds noticeably clearer

Transients:
The Theta is a master of impactul transients and does not disappoint. The Total DAC A1 is quite energetic too, but less so.

Bass:
The Theta punches really strongly, but the Total DAC is not far. It's the quality of the bass where the Theta is better: more resolving and tighter.

Comments on input options: The Theta sounded its best fed via AES from the MSB Transport, but the difference is very small to COAX. No options but COAX with the Total DAC.

Conclusion: The TotalDAC A1 has a very pleasant sound with good R2R liquidity and can be energetic when required.  I can enjoy it for hours. It can even draw attention from background activities in a good way (i.e.: it's not one of those boring DACs). This is also true for the Theta, however the latter is better at most if not all technicalities. I would certainly position the Theta V A on a higher sound quality shelf.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 05:36:39 PM by Negura »
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Hands

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 05:12:52 PM »

Oh, really, TotalDac A1 has a brighter tone than the Gen Va? Well, that's too bad and a bit surprising to me. I wonder how the stupid expensive TD models compare.

Funny that the A1 also seems to have a higher output. Theta was already pretty high in the that regard.

Some of the other qualities you mentioned make me think the TD A1 may indeed be limited in ENOB as some have guessed.
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Negura

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2015, 05:18:15 PM »

I did not think A1 has higher output, they are close and a bit the other way around I thought. I will double check when I get time. I guess I could also measure them if I cba.
Could it sound louder because it's comparatively brighter, and you want to turn it down? :)

The Theta has clear warmth to its sound. It's within my enjoyment range, but I would not want an warmer DAC to be honest. It also depends on the interface though. With the IFI Ilink thing it's comparatively warmer (meh) compared to the PUC2 via AES or MSB UMT via AES.
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Marvey

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 05:34:51 PM »

Oh, really, TotalDac A1 has a brighter tone than the Gen Va? Well, that's too bad and a bit surprising to me. I wonder how the stupid expensive TD models compare.

Yeah Hands, they are all too bright for you.
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frenchbat

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 06:44:10 PM »

On the volume difference, I'm wondering whether the fact that the A1 is single ended is the culprit. I'm listening to the theta via XLR. Maybe it has influence, maybe not. But two clicks is still 2,5dB which is big enough to be clearly noticeable.

I remember Marv' or Anax mention they had an idea about correlation between ENOB and sound qualities or lack thereof. Maybe they're willing to elaborate a bit.

 
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Hands

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 08:04:33 PM »

Haha, yeah, Marv...seems like everything is too bright for me, no? :) Did you actually get to hear some other TotalDac products in the lineup?

In regards to ENOB of the TotalDAC A1, the 6Moons review was actually quite informative: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/totaldac/3.html

"While the Totaldac is a 24-bit network, 0.01% resistors cannot easily exceed 14-bit resolution (1/10.000 versus 1/65.536 for a 16-bit signal). The 24-bit foil ladder is not used at full capacity but guarantees 14-bit resolution for both most significant and less significant bits."

Personally, I'm not too worried about it. I've enjoyed DACs with worse performance than that. Interesting nonetheless. And the impressions listed above aside, I will would still like to hear something from TotalDAC down the road out of curiosity.

Marv and Anax would have to correct me if I'm off the mark or your experiences don't match mine, but based on my limited experience with various DACs that are strong in terms of accuracy, linearity, ENOB, whatever you want to call it, etc., and also perform well in most static measurements, you gain a little bit of everything. Better detail and plankton retrieval, better sense of space and imaging, better sense of ambience, decay, reverb, room acoustics, and so on. I could be wrong.
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frenchbat

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 08:20:11 PM »

Marv and Anax would have to correct me if I'm off the mark or your experiences don't match mine, but based on my limited experience with various DACs that are strong in terms of accuracy, linearity, ENOB, whatever you want to call it, etc., and also perform well in most static measurements, you gain a little bit of everything. Better detail and plankton retrieval, better sense of space and imaging, better sense of ambience, decay, reverb, room acoustics, and so on. I could be wrong.

That's what I'm suspecting too Hands. I'm just wondering what kind of correlation they did.
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Marvey

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 09:09:03 PM »

Only thing different is I don't feel NOS stage is deeper or has more depth. There's an weird out-of-head thing going on with NOS in terms of depth if NOS stage is simply just not flat in the first place. Agreed that the stage is much narrower. I use speakers though when assessing stage and I remain headstage retarded to this very day.

Personally, I do not think it's possible to truly get depth or tight localization with headphones. Tweeters or even cones act closer to point sources than headphone drivers close to the ear.

More ENOB (accuracy and bitdepth) = more low level information <> detail <> sharper edges.

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Re: TotalDAC A1 Vs Theta Gen VA
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 08:32:48 PM »

Back from vacation.  :wheel:


Thks to Frenchbat for those impressions. Let's wait what Negura has to tell us now. The point for me is to know how sits my DAC against the best competitors. I had no doubt about the fac my totaldac is not the best (I have proper ears after all) but I needed help to determinate myself for the future.
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