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Author Topic: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.  (Read 3581 times)

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Chris F

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2015, 06:29:05 PM »

<snip>
 I've spent a lot of time with top class vinyl playback (Kuzma XL4 with Airline and 4 Point tonearms, EAR Discmaster, SME 30/12, Kronos, AMG, Clearaudio Statement) in friends systems which I listen to frequently, and it all comes down the system synergy.  If you already have that, there are gains to be had, but not THAT much more.
<snip>

What did you think of the Kronos table?  My plan is to move from my VPI Classic to a "destination" table in the next couple of years and the Kronos is at the top of my list due to the fact the designer and manufacturing is located in Montreal which is only a 90 minute drive from me.  The only thing I don't like about the Kronos is lack of a hold down mechanism (vacuum, ring etc...) and I also understand they might have had some issues with the speed controller. (it got a redesign)

First thing though is to start hitting audio shows to hear and at least get a good look at the contenders... (VPI, AMG, TechDAS, Kronos).
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shaizada

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2015, 06:41:31 PM »

What did you think of the Kronos table?  My plan is to move from my VPI Classic to a "destination" table in the next couple of years and the Kronos is at the top of my list due to the fact the designer and manufacturing is located in Montreal which is only a 90 minute drive from me.  The only thing I don't like about the Kronos is lack of a hold down mechanism (vacuum, ring etc...) and I also understand they might have had some issues with the speed controller. (it got a redesign)

First thing though is to start hitting audio shows to hear and at least get a good look at the contenders... (VPI, AMG, TechDAS, Kronos).

The Kronos, first of all looks absolutely amazing in person.  The aesthetics are really beautiful, the fit and finish are top notch and there is excellent ease of use.

Now, the two platters are not connected at all.  The bottom platter is connected to one motor and the top platter is connected to an exact replica second motor.  The idea is to cancel out all torsional forces to essentially maintain an zeroed out force environment.  The sound is super quiet, with an eerily quiet noise floor.

A non starter (for me personally) is the lack of dual tonearm capability.  At this level of table, I want to be able to run a mono and stereo cart on a whim.  The Kronos does not support that, and being a suspended design, it will be difficult to do with modifications (having to compensate for the second tonearm weight on the opposite side).

I think you really ought to look at all aspects of a destination table and a road trip to look at all contenders would be a good thing.  Come by to the next SHOW at Newport and you can see most of the turntables on your list easily.

I recently helped a good friend purchase a Kuzma XL4 turntable with the Kuzma Airline and Kuzma 4 point tonearms.  That turntable is a true joy to own and operate.  The precision engineering is off the charts...if it were made in the USA instead of Slovenia, that table would be $150,000 easily!  I thought the Kuzma Airline tonearm will be difficult to own...it is absolutely easy to use and a joy to setup!  I just had to make sure the tonearm gauge has a 4.5psi pressure (gauge is right on the tonearm itself) and the arm moves frictionlessly!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 07:04:17 PM by shaizada »
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Deep Funk

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2015, 07:05:57 PM »

This thread deserves this image.

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Chris F

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2015, 08:05:21 PM »

The Kronos, first of all looks absolutely amazing in person.  The aesthetics are really beautiful, the fit and finish are top notch and there is excellent ease of use.

Now, the two platters are not connected at all.  The bottom platter is connected to one motor and the top platter is connected to an exact replica second motor.  The idea is to cancel out all torsional forces to essentially maintain an zeroed out force environment.  The sound is super quiet, with an eerily quiet noise floor.

A non starter (for me personally) is the lack of dual tonearm capability.  At this level of table, I want to be able to run a mono and stereo cart on a whim.  The Kronos does not support that, and being a suspended design, it will be difficult to do with modifications (having to compensate for the second tonearm weight on the opposite side).

I think you really ought to look at all aspects of a destination table and a road trip to look at all contenders would be a good thing.  Come by to the next SHOW at Newport and you can see most of the turntables on your list easily.

I recently helped a good friend purchase a Kuzma XL4 turntable with the Kuzma Airline and Kuzma 4 point tonearms.  That turntable is a true joy to own and operate.  The precision engineering is off the charts...if it were made in the USA instead of Slovenia, that table would be $150,000 easily!  I thought the Kuzma Airline tonearm will be difficult to own...it is absolutely easy to use and a joy to setup!  I just had to make sure the tonearm gauge has a 4.5psi pressure (gauge is right on the tonearm itself) and the arm moves frictionlessly!

Yes I think this year I will make a trip to TAVES in Toronto and maybe next year I can figure out a way to get to one of the big shows in the US.  Corporate headquarters for me happens to be in Irvine (right next to UCI) so next time I travel there (usually once a year) I am going to do my best to take a few extra days and try to arrange auditions of the gear that is produced in SoCal like EC, DNA etc...
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DaveBSC

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2015, 08:25:17 PM »

First thing though is to start hitting audio shows to hear and at least get a good look at the contenders... (VPI, AMG, TechDAS, Kronos).

I would definitely put DaVinci Audio Labs on your list. Their tables and the Master Reference Virtu arm are fabulous. The AMG, Spiral Groove, Dr. Feickert Firebird, Acoustic Signature Ascona, and Amazon Grand Referenz are also all fantastic tables.

I have not heard the Classic Direct Drive, but I've never been particularly moved by the HR-X. In that class IMO there are much better choices.
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Marvey

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2015, 10:26:57 PM »

I would definitely put DaVinci Audio Labs on your list. Their tables and the Master Reference Virtu arm are fabulous. The AMG, Spiral Groove, Dr. Feickert Firebird, Acoustic Signature Ascona, and Amazon Grand Referenz are also all fantastic tables.

I have not heard the Classic Direct Drive, but I've never been particularly moved by the HR-X. In that class IMO there are much better choices.

Interesting tidbit by Salvatore: Supposedly the early prototypes of the HR-X with the all aluminum chassis and heavy platter instead of the production version acrylic/aluminum/acrylic chassis and acrylic platter were the ones to get. He also said the rim drive yielded improvements, albeit with more need to mess with stuff on a regular basis. Of course the add-ons start to get stupid. (Holy crap, didn't know the current HR-X is $15K now). I might call upon Ravi to DIY stuff. I wish the value proposition of VPI extended up their upper lines. Seems to take a nosedive really quickly.
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shaizada

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2015, 11:12:22 PM »

Interesting tidbit by Salvatore: Supposedly the early prototypes of the HR-X with the all aluminum chassis and heavy platter instead of the production version acrylic/aluminum/acrylic chassis and acrylic platter were the ones to get. He also said the rim drive yielded improvements, albeit with more need to mess with stuff on a regular basis. Of course the add-ons start to get stupid. (Holy crap, didn't know the current HR-X is $15K now). I might call upon Ravi to DIY stuff. I wish the value proposition of VPI extended up their upper lines. Seems to take a nosedive really quickly.

That is absolutely correct.  The version preceding the VPI HR-X was the TNT 6 "Hot Rod" (which is the table that I have).  They stopped production on the TNT series as the prices of getting the quality acrylic needed shot up sky high due to oil prices.  VPI just couldn't get the same machined quality of acrylic slabs in the thickness that was needed.  So they got thinner slabs, put in an aluminum sub chassis and bolted it all together.  They also gave it some styling with the "x" shape cut.  Hence the HR-X was born. 

The TNT 6 came in a few versions, single motor/flywheel, dual motor/flywheel which is also called the HR-X Dual Motor, and with and without armboard.  The "Hot Rod" version is with the JMW 12.5 arm drilled directly into the chassis for more rigidity.  There are versions of the TNT with interchangeable armboards to accommodate various arms from other manufacturers.

For my TNT 6, I went from the frosted acrylic platter to a Super Platter and finally onto the Classic platter.  Each was a progressive improvement in sound on the TNT 6.  If I owned an HR-X, I would keep the Super Platter as it is more fuller sounding and just had more bass and warmth.  With the TNT 6, it was slightly too much, so I went to the Classic platter after making side by side comparisons.  The Classic Aluminum platter had the best synergy with the already full and rich sounding TNT 6.  Again, as usual, it is all about synergy between the components.  :)p6

A major improvement in PRaT was gotten with moving from the standard belt drive to a rim drive.

Here is the table before the dual tonearm upgrade I did recently:



Here is is after the dual tonearm setup:



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Marvey

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2015, 12:26:55 AM »

aahhhhhhh! I'll need to pay you a visit. Must resist goodies.
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shaizada

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2015, 12:30:23 AM »

aahhhhhhh! I'll need to pay you a visit. Must resist goodies.

You are welcome anytime!  Get that butthead Luis with you as well...he's been meaning to come over but he is always crazy busy!
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Marvey

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2015, 12:35:08 AM »

You are welcome anytime!  Get that butthead Luis with you as well...he's been meaning to come over but he is always crazy busy!

I'll do that. Luis seems MIA lately. I'll try to find him.
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