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Author Topic: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.  (Read 3581 times)

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Chris F

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2015, 07:36:30 PM »

Marv here is your VTF scale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Professional-Stylus-Force-Tracking-Pressure-Gauge-Scale-Gauge-led-/261885061612?hash=item3cf990e9ec

Can't remember where I read it but someone took one of these to work and tested it against a lab grade scale and it was accurate within 0.01g.

Remember you need to measure VTF at the surface of the record so the actual tracking force using this gauge is going to be about 0.1-0.2g lower then what is displayed since the scale sits a few mm higher then surface of the platter + record.  If you have a cart with really tight tolerances (like my Kleos which needs to be within 0.1g) you will need to rig yourself a platform next to the platter to get it perfectly dialed in.  2M Black is 1.4-1.7g so for a quick and dirty setting dial it in to just under 1.8g and you should be just about perfect.
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shaizada

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2015, 07:39:31 PM »

There's a blog with a fellow that has a ton of 24/96 Vinyl rips that he's done himself. I don't know if I'm aloud to post a link to it though.

Marv would it be OK post the link?

pbthal? :)

Marv, congrats on a damn killer turntable!  The Classic is absolutely stunning in sound reproduction.  Here are some upgrades that will give you very very large upgrades in sound with your VPI:

1) VPI SDS
2) VPI Center Weight and Periphery Ring
3) Change pulley out to the HRX pulley and use 2 rubber belts around the platter rather than just one (you will need the SDS for this mod as you will need to make appropriate speed adjustments to compensate for the different pulley size).

You can expect much more dynamics, PRaT, detail, bigger tone, more textures and just a more sophisticated presentation.

Oh by the way, forget all the other digital gauges on the market.  Just buy this Shure gauge.  It is spot on Accurate! 

NOTE:
The Shure gauge tops out at 3 grams of tracking force. Works for 95% of the cartridges out there, but for example, I needed use another gauge for my new dedicated mono cartridge, the Miyajima Zero, that needs to track at 3.5 grams for mono records.



http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SFG-2-Stylus-Tracking-Force/dp/B00006I5SD

If you want the best digital gauge on the market, this is the one, the Ortofon DS-3.  It measures weight at the correct vinyl height on the bare platter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221568209329?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

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shaizada

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2015, 07:48:02 PM »

Marv here is your VTF scale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Professional-Stylus-Force-Tracking-Pressure-Gauge-Scale-Gauge-led-/261885061612?hash=item3cf990e9ec

Can't remember where I read it but someone took one of these to work and tested it against a lab grade scale and it was accurate within 0.01g.

Remember you need to measure VTF at the surface of the record so the actual tracking force using this gauge is going to be about 0.1-0.2g lower then what is displayed since the scale sits a few mm higher then surface of the platter + record.  If you have a cart with really tight tolerances (like my Kleos which needs to be within 0.1g) you will need to rig yourself a platform next to the platter to get it perfectly dialed in.  2M Black is 1.4-1.7g so for a quick and dirty setting dial it in to just under 1.8g and you should be just about perfect.


I actually own this very scale.  The Shure Gauge and the new Ortofon gauge are actually more repeatedly accurate IME.


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DaveBSC

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2015, 07:51:34 PM »

The only other TT's that piqued my interest on the 'gon were the Nottinghams. For obvious reasons, they were local pickup only.

The VPI actually caught me by surprise. I wasn't even aware of the Classic line, which evidently has been out for about five years now. This one was a local pickup in Pasadena. One owner. I lucked out.

Funnily enough, the prior owner of my Ace Space 294 traded it in on a VPI Classic 3. I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with VPI. I like listening to their tables, don't like using them. Mainly to do with JMWs, I'm just not a fan. Nottingham's arms are also unipivots, but they are definitely less fiddly.

Now you need to get yourself a real Phono preamp. I'm a big fan of the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ at under $1K. Lehmann's preamps are pretty good too, particularly the SE and SE II.
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Chris F

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2015, 07:53:49 PM »

I actually own this very scale.  The Shure Gauge and the new Ortofon gauge are actually more repeatedly accurate IME.

Yes completely agree.  I have one too as well as the scale that came with my Classic.  Been meaning to order a DS-3 for myself.  I figured I would throw out the $10 cheap and effective option first. :)
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DaveBSC

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2015, 07:54:40 PM »

There's a blog with a fellow that has a ton of 24/96 Vinyl rips that he's done himself. I don't know if I'm aloud to post a link to it though.

Marv would it be OK post the link?

If you're talking about PB, he severely frowns on people posting his site address on public forums, and it's one of the reasons why he's changed sites like 5 times already. I would advise against it.
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shaizada

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2015, 08:02:48 PM »

Yes completely agree.  I have one too as well as the scale that came with my Classic.  Been meaning to order a DS-3 for myself.  I figured I would throw out the $10 cheap and effective option first. :)

I'm in the same boat man! I've been meaning to buy the DS-3, but I haven't pulled the trigger.  Bloody $100 gauge...it is a PERFECT gauge for us analog freaks, but man, $100 for a gauge! I know I won't hold out for too long.

Funnily enough, the prior owner of my Ace Space 294 traded it in on a VPI Classic 3. I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with VPI. I like listening to their tables, don't like using them. Mainly to do with JMWs, I'm just not a fan. Nottingham's arms are also unipivots, but they are definitely less fiddly.

Now you need to get yourself a real Phono preamp. I'm a big fan of the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ at under $1K. Lehmann's preamps are pretty good too, particularly the SE and SE II.

Yeah, the JMW unipivot arms are a little finicky, but they work so damn well!  Marv, if you need any help setting that arm up, holler at me.  I know that arm inside out and can adjust it absolutely PERFECTLY.  If you have any questions at all, just let me know...would be glad to help.  Hec, bring the turntable over to my place and I will show you all the steps I go through and set it up for you as well  :)p1  Also, I don't recommend you use the anti skating device (if one is being used) and just make sure the tracking force is 0.1g higher than where you want it.  It actually sounds better...the twist in the tonearm wire with the lemo connector provides more than sufficient anti skating force.

Before you buy or use any other cartridge, make sure the dynamic compliance works with the correct resonant frequency range of your tonearm, which depends on the effective mass of the tonearm.  Just do the math before buying a cartridge to ensure you can extract everything out of the cartridge ;)

Phonostages, phono cables, table, arm, vibration control...it's a fun ride! Being a total electro mechanical sound reproduction method, there are many ways to optimize the sound to your OWN listening tastes.
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DaveBSC

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2015, 08:08:12 PM »

"...depth of the sound you get and the physicality of the listening experience."
Couldn't put it better than that. A good way to describe this table. The opposite of STAX. Surprising how vinyl can slam more than CDs given much more limited dynamic range of ~60db of the former. That Phil Collins record was a real treat. I suspect that because of the format's restrictions (frequency response, dynamic range, noise) the mastering engineers had to work smarter (or simply work), thus the recordings ended up be better. The other possibility, however unpopular with the Hydrogen Audio crowd, is that digital just might, might be more flat sounding.

There is some debate about what's the real dynamic range limit of vinyl. During the peak of elite Japanese direct drive production in the early '80s, S/NR suddenly jumped from a high of around 78dB for the best models to 95dB on tables like the Exclusive P3a, essentially matching the dynamic range limit of 16-bit digital. This stat was a bit phony though, they changed the rules to more approximate what they described as "perceived" S/NR.

I don't think there's any technical reasons why vinyl should sound better than digital, although if you're taking an album that was recorded on tape, vinyl allows you to have an analog end-to-end production process, while CD obviously doesn't, and the end result depends on the quality of the A-D conversion. I suspect this is why so many early '80s CDs suck so bad - bad ADC combined with the fact that engineers didn't really know how to master for CD yet.

Of course today CDs suck because they are mandated to suck, mastering is governed by earbuds, laptop speakers, and "competitive" loudness. If vinyl had to follow those same rules, I would just stop buying modern music altogether.
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DaveBSC

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2015, 08:16:30 PM »

Phonostages, phono cables, table, arm, vibration control...it's a fun ride! Being a total electro mechanical sound reproduction method, there are many ways to optimize the sound to your OWN listening tastes.

It is, I just wish it didn't cost so much. I got a very good deal on my Sutherland Duo, but it still cost as much as the Yggy.
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JK47

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Re: VPI Classic 1 Turnable - look what the cat dragged in.
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2015, 08:24:03 PM »

If you're talking about PB, he severely frowns on people posting his site address on public forums, and it's one of the reasons why he's changed sites like 5 times already. I would advise against it.

Understood, thank you.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 10:29:33 PM by JK47 »
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