CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

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Poll

What is the PPP (proper price point) for the Ether?

You need to pay me to use them!
- 0 (0%)
$125
- 2 (3.7%)
$375
- 12 (22.2%)
$750
- 39 (72.2%)
$1500
- 1 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Voting closed: September 18, 2015, 05:43:12 AM


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Author Topic: MrSpeakers Ether  (Read 5292 times)

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money4me247

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2015, 06:30:44 AM »

Can someone post a image of the Ether driver? I can't remember where I saw it.

here is the image of the driver: http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/bc/900x900px-LL-bce331b1_image.jpeg

Hahaha. I just wanted you to get a sense of the environment here. Very hard to please folks who will offer sharp critiques. The more expensive a headphone, the more it will be critiqued. FWIW, the PM-1 with the original pads were called "pooo" by quite a few of us.

yup, I actually really enjoy reading the harsh critiques. really it is the negatives that really expand your knowledge on sound quality. hahah that is funny on the pm-1. I wldnt disagree especially if you are looking at imaging, sound stage, speed, and overall clarity perspective. there is quite a bit of warmth and 'blurr' to its sound. lol dont even talk to me abt the lcd-xc. definitely not worth its price point (impo).

edit: attached images for easy viewing (credit currawong's head-fi ether review & MrSpeakersPeter's post in the Ether Impression head-fi thread)
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OJneg

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 06:41:50 AM »

I'd like to add that while we appreciate you taking the effort to perform and post these measurements, it seems as if your measurement rig could use some work, at least on the acoustic side of things. It gets hard to interpret measurements when people post them out of the blue. Some of the senior pirates feel that measurements without context/reference points only add more confusion for those who want to grab information easily. If I was a bit more wet behind the ears I might not understand that the 2-3k region on the Ether is actually recessed because of the ear gain in that region, or that the massive null at 6k is some sort of ear canal resonance but could actually be hiding what else is actually going on in that region. Specifically, I would expect the Ether to actually have a slight peak around there (similar to HD800) as that's a characteristic that a few senior pirates have heard from that driver, in both the Ether and the Ether C

I recommend conferring with Hans (who has a similar rig) and other pirates to are busy measuring headphones before posting further measurements. Your measurement system needs to be adjusted with some sort of compensation or move completely away from the "in-ear" technique in order to get better results.
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money4me247

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2015, 06:52:36 AM »

I'd like to add that while we appreciate you taking the effort to perform and post these measurements, it seems as if your measurement rig could use some work, at least on the acoustic side of things. It gets hard to interpret measurements when people post them out of the blue. Some of the senior pirates feel that measurements without context/reference points only add more confusion for those who want to grab information easily. If I was a bit more wet behind the ears I might not understand that the 2-3k region on the Ether is actually recessed because of the ear gain in that region, or that the massive null at 6k is some sort of ear canal resonance but could actually be hiding what else is actually going on in that region. Specifically, I would expect the Ether to actually have a slight peak around there (similar to HD800) as that's a characteristic that a few senior pirates have heard from that driver, in both the Ether and the Ether C

I recommend conferring with Hans (who has a similar rig) and other pirates to are busy measuring headphones before posting further measurements. Your measurement system needs to be adjusted with some sort of compensation or move completely away from the "in-ear" technique in order to get better results.

Thanks for the advice. I have actually already spoken to Hans and BMF about setting up my measurement kit. My measurement rig is quite similar to theirs. BMF personally thinks that compensation is unnecessary for the WM61-A. I have played with compensation files for it and tend to agree. Regarding the 2-3 kHz dip, I feel like having the raw information there is better as different people have different sensitivities to that region. For the 6 kHz peak I have tried numerous ways to remove it but beyond purchasing a dummy head or investing in a much more expensive measurement set-up, that is just simply the way my rig measures. This phenomenon is typical to varying degrees for people using this panasonic microphone measuring set-up. In my full review, I do touch on those two specific aspects to try to provide additional clarity for those who may not know how to interpret measurements.

The key point I think that measurements from different set-ups will all be different and cannot be inherently compared. I do appreciate your perspective though! It is very important to include that disclaimers on measurements (which I typically always have, but did not include on this website as I figured most posters here are experienced in that aspect).
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Marvey

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 06:53:16 AM »

No biggie. The method with pinna may have advantages for picking up 10kHz upward. We'll work on standards or procedures to provide reference points in the future iteration of this site. We plan on opening the site up to a wider audience, so disclaimers and better explanations to noobs is something we are thinking a lot more about there days. The 7 different kinds of measurements by 7 different people doing it 7 different ways... the measurements need to be qualified a bit better to avoid confusion. We'll tackle it, eventually.

For now, some mental calibration with same headphones:











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OJneg

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2015, 07:01:17 AM »

BMF personally thinks that compensation is unnecessary for the WM61-A

Well, it might not be if you let the capsule mic stand in free space, but it certainly is if you're going to place it in your ear canal. I tried to get that method right but gave up along the way. Personally, I wouldn't take any measurements as such very seriously; they always look wacky and you can't tell what's what. Unless you apply inverse transfer curve of your HRTF (which is basically what Tyll does). Maybe you should try recording a flat loudspeaker reference with the capsule mic in your ear and using that to compensate.
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MuZo2

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2015, 07:06:30 AM »

I wonder if the drivers are made by Fostex or OEM of Fostex. They have similar design.
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money4me247

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2015, 07:11:09 AM »

Well, it might not be if you let the capsule mic stand in free space, but it certainly is if you're going to place it in your ear canal. I tried to get that method right but gave up along the way. Personally, I wouldn't take any measurements as such very seriously; they always look wacky and you can't tell what's what. Unless you apply inverse transfer curve of your HRTF (which is basically what Tyll does). Maybe you should try recording a flat loudspeaker reference with the capsule mic in your ear and using that to compensate.

Thanks for the advice. I will look into exploring those options for future changstar posts.

for my personal usage, I do find my measurement rig sufficient and pretty well correlated to how I hear things. I don't recommend using my measurements as an universal 'reference,' and I consider it to be more helpful in relative comparison against other headphones I've measured in a similar fashion. I also do think that listening impressions are generally more accurate for the different nuances and I personally just use measurements for relative comparative data point.

Appreciate your thoughts & recommendations! :)
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Hands

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2015, 05:32:00 PM »

Only advice I have to offer for in-ear solutions is getting the right size tri-flange tip to hold the mic in your ear canal, and you want the mic to be as flush with the opening of your ear canal as possible. You really want it to seal nicely and fit securely.

It'll never be perfect (nor will any measurement method), and results are, of course, going to be very dependent on your actual head and ears. As such, they can't always be applied broadly to everyone else, but they can give some context around how your ears and head might affect how something sounds. It won't account for anything beyond the ear canal, hearing loss, or mental processing.

Anyone is free to disagree with me, but I have yet to find a measurement method that better captures how I hear headphones than how I do it myself. I always do plenty of listening before measuring, to be clear, and don't need measurements to tell me whether I think something sounds good or bad. However, I have yet to see any set of measurements aside from my own that captures the HE-560 as being as horribly painful as I hear it or the HD600 being slightly "hot" in the 2-5KHz range. But, again, my measurements are tailored to my head and ears, so YMMV. Every other set of measurements I look at (and I do look at as many measurements as possible), compensated or not, require some mental gymnastics on my part to understand how they might translate to how I hear the headphone. Are there still going to be quirks and measurements artifacts in my setup? Oh yeah, absolutely. But I've seen that in other setups too. That's why you don't rely on them TOO much.

Should also mention that I'm guessing the WM61a has some product variance, which is hard to compensate for unless you have the mic professionally tested. The idea of seeing how it measures a known flat loudspeaker is a good start for guys like us. I have some bookshelf speakers. Dayton BR-1 and those budget Pioneer pairs from a few years back, with known measurements from other sources. I should see how they measure with my in-ear mic. I'd also make sure you run your measurement equipment minus mic in loopback mode to figure out any further compensation you'll need to apply for the hardware itself. My phantom PSU + ADC have a bit of inherent bass roll-off that I compensate for.

As I've said before, one experiment I want to try is my in-ear mic on different people. Rules out any mic variability. That way I can get a feel for how other heads and ears affect how headphones measure on this setup. Should be interesting, if not enlightening.
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Marvey

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2015, 05:48:39 PM »

However, I have yet to see any set of measurements aside from my own that captures the HE-560 as being as horribly painful as I hear it or the HD600 being slightly "hot" in the 2-5KHz range.

You sure about that? No others?

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Hands

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Re: MrSpeakers Ether
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2015, 05:53:18 PM »

Difference is that they don't stick out as much compared to how I perceive them. I'm decent at reading your measurements, but had I not been, I would have assumed the HE-560 bump would have been in-line with the rest of the response and not particularly hard for my ears. Maybe weird and out of place, but not painful. Sort of like the PM-2 treble bump, which is weird but not too strong relative to the bass and mids. Takes some mental compensation on my part, where as the measurements I got for the HE-560 look as painful as they sounded to me without me having to think about compensation. That's what I meant by that. :)  But, again, feel free to disagree...I use my measurements primarily as a way to build context around my subjective impressions, not as some absolute truth.
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