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Author Topic: Musings on Future Measurements  (Read 2201 times)

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ultrabike

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2015, 08:01:52 PM »

Click quote linky

Just use a standard linear equivalent circuit and call it a day like OJ said. Sure, headphone non-linearities will not be incorporated, but it's better than a resistor if standardized (not saying it should though, it's a pain). But I fail to see the foundations for this "your amp will blow up" scare if using such an equivalent circuit.

Then test with a few headphones and disclose the model. Not afraid of using 0.5Vrms on HD600 or KSC-75s.

Don't subscribe to this back EMF voodoo notion. Better to lump it to the linear characteristics of the system, like most EE textbooks and applications do.
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Solderdude

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2015, 08:26:53 PM »

Don't subscribe to this back EMF voodoo notion. Better to lump it to the linear characteristics of the system, like most EE textbooks and applications do.

Sure, you can use either a simple resistive load or the suggested one by OJ or a real driver (can be a cheapy or a crappy one), test FR and distortion and call it a day.

If you don't test it, you won't know for sure and can only assume... is it not ?
How does the output stage react when current is being returned into the amp ?
Do all amps work like a perfect true 0 Ohm 'short' or does it introduce distortions, which ones and how much ?
Has anyone ever tested for this ?
It may not reveal anything at all as the currents are very small.
In case of the HD600/650/800 the back EMF current around 100Hz is half that of the supplied current around 1kHz so substantial, but still they are very small currents.

It is not a textbook test, just an idea to ADD to a test suite and may (or may not) give additional information about the amps performance.

Was just a musing anyway, nobody has to (nor probably will) ever build it.



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ultrabike

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2015, 08:41:58 PM »

How does the output stage react when current is being returned into the amp ?

From what I remember, this is due to the storage of charge (voltage) of a capacitor and magnetic field (current) of an inductor. All behaviors characterized by a set of linear differential equations that result from Maxwell's equations if I remember correctly. Laplace transforms are used to solve the resulting polynomials instead of the differential equations directly. If the excitation is sinusoidal, the phasors can be used. Transients can be found if initial conditions (voltage and currents) are known about the circuit prior to excitation.

Now how exactly, to the mosquito fart detail. I dunno. It probably depends on the amp. Use Spice or something. If the models don't fit, specially the non linear ones that are not covered by Maxwell's and so, I guess refine them.

Do all amps work like a perfect true 0 Ohm 'short' or does it introduce distortions, which ones and how much ?

No. Amps don't necessarily behave the same IMO. Non-linear distortion is likely due to non-linear interactions which are likely poorly described by back EMF and unique to a particular amp and load combination.

Has anyone ever tested for this ?

In many designs (not necessarily here), I believe so.

It may not reveal anything at all as the currents are very small.

Distortion is supposed to be small yet problematic.

In case of the HD600/650/800 the back EMF current around 100Hz is half that of the supplied current around 1kHz so substantial, but still they are very small currents.

You can call the hump around 100Hz on those headphones back EMF. I rather see it as a characteristic of the headphone reactive load.

It is not a textbook test, just an idea to ADD to a test suite and may (or may not) give additional information about the amps performance. Was just a musing anyway, nobody has to (nor probably will) ever build it.

This is IMO not new. I think such model loads have been built in the past for tuning the cross over of speakers. If it strikes our fancy to do it, we'll do it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 09:01:20 PM by ultrabike »
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OJneg

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2015, 08:55:06 PM »

Yes, upon second thought, the reactive component of a real headphone load is adequately modeled with the passive equivalent circuit. We can't model the non-linear component but the passive load put forth should still reflect energy back to the amp. The definition of reactance...
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ultrabike

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2015, 09:02:04 PM »

Yes, upon second thought, the reactive component of a real headphone load is adequately modeled with the passive equivalent circuit. We can't model the non-linear component but the passive load put forth should still reflect energy back to the amp. The definition of reactance...

Yep. That's how I think things work.
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Solderdude

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2015, 09:49:55 PM »

the passive load put forth should still reflect energy back to the amp.


Yup, you may well have a point there.

Will do some tests someday and quantify some numbers.
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