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Author Topic: Musings on Future Measurements  (Read 2201 times)

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OJneg

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2015, 09:58:58 PM »

What I'd like to see is a method that can capture and present dynamic / transient behavior differences of amps - namely in amount of feedback. Feedback does wonderful things like tighten up the bass and extend FR, but it closes the soundstage and makes everything flatter and duller sounding.

I think that breaking the FB loop and looking at open-loop behavior would be very insightful when attempting to correlate amplifier performance to perceived SQ. I know that Jason has said that part of his design process includes carefully examining and optimizing open-loop performance. There's no doubt in my mind that that's a critical step for any analog design engineer.

If we operate on the premise that the transistors/tubes/components can add/subtract certain qualities based on their "intrinsic" sound, then it makes sense to try to examine the given device in all facets of its operation. It's worth asking exactly how linear a BJT is before you wrap it up in feedback. Same with a triode or a MOSFET. For amps that rely upon their global NFB loop to stay stable then forget about it...and same with opamps since they can have +100dB worth of open-loop gain. But interesting to think about nonetheless and something I'd like to examine myself.
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OJneg

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 10:05:09 PM »

Trafo's may introduce higher distortions (hysteresis of the core), and won't do as well in frequency and phase response but the idea is intriguing.

Yes, but we've already established that such distortion is less intrusive than the sound of an O2.
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Solderdude

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2015, 10:12:22 PM »

Bedtime here ... no more nonsense from me for a while.  ::)


And ... that may depend on the used trafo AND how it is driven (which may be equally important)
besides ... I have not established anything yet before I see test results .
I have made 'educated assumptions' in the past which later on proved inaccurate so try to not assume or find things established, regardless of the confidence level.

And yes, all amplification devices are non linear, they do behave differently under different circumstances as well (voltage swing vs bias/power supply voltage ratio etc.)

Interesting thoughts though... I hope they keep coming.


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Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

Donald North

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2015, 10:16:15 PM »

Mumetal/nickel cores can have very low distortion. For example look at the distortion measurements for line-level balanced input transformers.

We will need a way to level match the output versus input.

I can imagine listening real-time and listening for the one with the least artifacts. For those artifacts which do exist, I wonder if those which sound least bad correlate with the better sounding amplifier....
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Marvey

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2015, 10:16:47 PM »

Could use transformers with nano crystalline core to address hysteresis issue.
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Donald North

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2015, 10:19:46 PM »

I suspected it may come to this: nickel versus nano crystalline  :)
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Armaegis

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2015, 03:06:56 AM »

Huh, just tossing this here for reading later:
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCwQFjABahUKEwjDq8GJr4THAhVPG5IKHaUyBtI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublictopics.PublicPostFileLoader.html%3Fid%3D5410197ad11b8b096d8b461f%26key%3D88e37e18-2dd7-4188-a7c6-495387235c64&ei=dOO6VcOhHs-2yASl5ZiQDQ&usg=AFQjCNG6dgegg9Zg5lkmlrPM-oVpzUOYBA&bvm=bv.99261572,d.aWw&cad=rja
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-14392012000500020

The metallurgist in me is fascinated, but all my book smarts are on microstructural formations and mechanical behaviour, not electric/magnetic properties. I wonder if anyone's tried single crystal yet, or if that's viable. (wondering not for buzzwords, but because it's relevant to my area of research)
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Anaxilus

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2015, 03:21:43 AM »

What's funny is that while various cables are marketed with certain unique features offering unique benefits with lots of associated debate and banter on both sides, some of the same attributes have a very real and quantifiable effects on transformers.
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Armaegis

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2015, 03:33:52 AM »

Pfft, if someone can market liquid cables, I'm just waiting for them to make a liquid transformer...
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

Anaxilus

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Re: Musings on Future Measurements
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2015, 03:39:06 AM »

Lol, well I did say 'some'.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

"The Claw is our master. The Claw chooses who will go or who will stay." - The LGM Community

"You're like a dull knife, just ain't cuttin'. Talking loud, saying nothing." - James Brown
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