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Author Topic: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions  (Read 5755 times)

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Hands

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2015, 04:58:42 PM »

I love that S7 he brought. Will talk more about it later.
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bixby

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2015, 05:05:00 PM »

Special wiring technique to minimize emi and crosstalk


free upload image
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Marvey

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2015, 05:06:03 PM »

They are all shielded. It's fine.
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MisterRogers

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2015, 05:10:11 PM »

^ What Anax said. I spent a good chunk of time rolling caps & tubes, but ended up with the caps & tubes (for my HD800) that Mike had as his reference. Simply couldn't find a tube or cap combo that was better. Further upgrades include:
* Soft-annealed, 4-9's silver interconnect wire with a cotton dielectric use in output interconnect wiring.
* A Belleson super regulator on the driver tube.
* A Cosmos carbon wiper potentiometer.

It's one hell of an amp. When my studio lands, Uber7 will probably go to the office; can see myself parting with it.

Anax - some day I'll drag it out to a CA meet, I'd really like your impressions, being familiar with it without my mods.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 05:30:45 PM by MisterRogers »
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audiofrk

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2015, 05:20:01 PM »

^ What Anax said. I spent a good chunk of time rolling caps & tubes, but ended up with the caps & tubes (for my HD800) that Mike had as his reference. Simply couldn't find a tube or cap combo that was better. Further upgrades include:
* Soft-annealed, 4-9's silver interconnect wire with a cotton dielectric use in output interconnect wiring.
* A Belleson super regulator on the driver tube.
* A Cosmos carbon wiper potentiometer.

It's one hell of an amp. When my studio lands, Uber7 will probably go to the office; can see myself parting with it.

Anax - some day I'll drag it out to a CA meet, I'd really like you impressions, being familiar with it without my mods.

interesting. If anyone can post some impressions that would be great.
 
@Mr. R  looking foward to a comparison with the studio when you get it.
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bixby

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2015, 06:12:29 PM »

Yggy feeding the Black Widow with Senn 800s was a real treat,  Near perfect dac with fantastic space and neutral open sound.  Also heard the HE1000 with the same setup.  Certaninly a different presentation with a bit less openness and perhaps a bit more warm.  Both cans were nicely punchy on bass  and drums when listening to Morph the Cat.  I would certainly not call the setup with the HE1000s and Kevin's silver cable bright by any means.  Just a wisp of something up top to keep it airy.

On another note, I did get to compare the Yggy and Meitner dac that Kevin brought.  Both were very nice with a bit of different and to my ears a touch more analytical presentation on the Meitner.  The difference on one part of music was very apparent with a piece that was on several rigs, Dead Can Dance's Into the Labryrinth CD on the Ubiquitous Mr. Lovegrove track at about 12 seconds in there is a percussive tat tat tat tat........tat tat tat tat repeating and becoming even easier to hear as he begins to sing. 

My question to those who have this cd is: can you describe what it sounds like on your dac and cans.  I am curious as to what the consensus is.  I am purposely not trying to lead, but more than a few dacs presented this part of the track differently.

I got to hear the Super 7 again and would be hard pressed to pick a winner between it and the Black Widow.  Maybe more super 7 for the Senn 800s and maybe the spider for many other cans.
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Hands

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2015, 08:33:37 PM »

Here be my impressions:

HE1000: Didn't try these from every possible DAC and amp, but these were somewhat disappointing for me. Nice impact and a nice fullness to the sound, but marred by a rough treble characteristic. Looking at various measurements, I think it's that 7KHz spot couple with some other ragged elements in the upper regions. I heard two pairs of these. One had more kick to it, less fullness and warmth, and a rougher top end. The other had less kick (but quite close) but a greater sense of general warmth. This one was also a bit smoother up top, but still rough. The HD600/650 sound more tonally balanced, more refined, and clearer to me. Unfortunately, I did not have toilet paper to try on the HE1K (well, too lazy to grab some, that is). Comfort and fit were OK. I think the looks and design are lame and it the build quality and finish did not match the price point. Vastly overpriced.

Lyr 2 + my modded PM-2: Holy fat bass, Batman! I let jexby try the PM-2 out, and he started with them on the Lyr 2. He told me they were the bassiest headphones he had heard at the meet yet. I told him that, yeah, I tuned them to be a bit bassy like the HD650 or Slants. I wanted to check out the Lyr 2 myself, so I just used the PM-2 that was already plugged in. Jexby had already left the room by that point, but, wow, such bass. I grabbed him and told him to try them from another amp (Ember and Black Widow). He verified my thoughts that, for whatever reason, the Lyr 2 brought out a ton of bass on my modded PM-2. Sounded much tighter from other amps. Funny, the Lyr 2 didn't do that on the HE-560. Interesting. Anyway, I actually didn't do much critical listening on the Lyr 2, but it sounded good and had a somewhat warm character to it.

SS Tubes: Honestly, less difference than I expected compared to actual tubes. Slightly better clarity and separation, maybe cleaner, maybe more detailed. Actual tubes still had a better sense of three dimensions and air, perhaps a bit warmer tone too. SS Tubes get surprisingly warm to the touch! Consider this a good thing that these did not have the typical SS sound. Would love to experiment with these more.

Third HE-560 I've tested: Still painful. This was maybe the least offensive sounding pair I've heard. All I hear is decent low-end impact, thin mids, and stab-my-ear treble. Yet, I've read reports of non-bright pairs floating around. I think they try to avoid me, those damn, tricksy headphones.

Modi 2 Uber: This was hooked up to the Lyr 2. Not sure what was the Lyr 2 and what was the Modi, but I didn't hear any of that usual flat, dry, fake D/S sound. Plenty of fullness and body, clear, detailed. Worth recommending for those wanting something cheap.

Modded Black Diamond: I believe this is the same BD I heard on loaner a while back. MisterRogers made some tweaks, with the primary tweak being some nicer voltage regulators. He'd have to expand on that. Either way, noticeably different sounding than what I heard. When I heard it, it was somewhat polite sounding. This one kicked up the low-end power and upper-end a notch. Blacker background, less grey nature. Clearer sounding. OTOH, it also brought out a somewhat overly textured, somewhat etched sound somewhere in the upper-mids or lower-treble. I'm guessing this was there before but covered up by the polite nature, where as the mods brought this less pleasing aspect along with the nice improvements. Seems headphone and song dependent. I heard the same quality in the Metrum Aurix, which makes me wonder how much of it is due to the non-feedback, step-up transformer for gain design. Not sure. Regardless, this is just such a cool, unique amp that I hope MisterRogers keeps it around and continues to tweak it.

Modded Super 7 (aka Uber 7): Man, I love this amp. I heard it at t he earlier Denver meet with a stock HD800. Blew me away. Gave the HD800 a sense of power and fullness I was NOT expecting. Still a bit too bright and somewhat etched for my tastes, but was still highly impressed. So, for this meet, I wanted to see how it handled something else. I was too dumb to grab my HD650 (it was probably floating around on someone else's setup at the time), so I tried it with my PM-2. Damn, still sounded great! PM-2 isn't the best with some tube amps, as it softens them up a bit. This S7 did that ever so slightly, but not as much as from, say, the Valhalla 2. Gave them a nice sense of power and a surprising amount of air. This amp has a powerful, somewhat warm, smooth, detailed, clear, airy sound to it. I was a fool not to hook it up to my HD650, but I'd also probably be on the hunt for one now if I had tried. I told MisterRogers to tell me if he ever wanted to sell it, and jexby was quick to say he already called dibs on it. So, I'm not alone in wanting it!

Black Widow: Nice sounding SS amp! Not as 3D, spacious, or airy as the Super 7...actually not particularly close, IMO, but not a slouch either. This thing excels when it comes to tone, plenty of low-end power, detail, and a smooth but not soft nature. Modded PM-2 sounded excellent from this. Nicely controlled, detailed, lively, and not overly smooth, soft, or dull. I think nearly everyone had very positive remarks about this amp. Awesome deal for the price. It's on my list for down the road.

Yggy: While I only got to spend a very brief amount of time with this DAC, it didn't take long to tell that this is a very nice DAC. I'd need a very quiet environment and lots of A-B time to check out this amazing sense of detail and resolving ability that everyone talks about, or anything regarding soundstage, but nothing appeared to be missing at all at first glance. I mostly focused on other attributes while listening. Nice, neutral tone. Plenty of impact down low. Great extension on both ends. Not harsh, etched, sibilant, or artificial sounding at all. Very pleasing to listen to. Sounded very clear and grain free. Focused. Coming from the Theta Gen Va, I felt right at home listening to this.

reDACted: Well...this one was actually a letdown for me. First, we ran into a lot of issues hooking this up to the Macbooks and Minis via USB. The first time I plugged it in, something was clearly wrong. Imagine feeding your music through some 8-bit video game console, like the NES, and this console has somehow taken LSD and is dead set out combining some sort of robotic, high-pitched, digital, metallic emphasis with every sound it spits out. After a few times of unplugging it and plugging it back in, restarting the software, re-applying software settings, and so on, it finally came to life as expected! I know I said I was letdown earlier, and that was based on how it sounded when it worked (seemingly) properly.(Adding clarification that "seemingly" working properly doesn't mean it was at 100%, so read with this in mind.) Tone seemed good, though on the warm side of things. Noticeably warmer than the Yggy and, hell, maybe even warmer sounding than my Model S, IMO. Maybe the warmest DAC I heard there. That's fine and all, since I'm OK with warmth, but it was surprising. Sense of detail seemed to be there, and it wasn't harsh. But what bothered me was something I had a hard time placing my finger on. It's like this DAC sounded unrefined (Edit: better way to describe it was overly wooly...see later posts). Not harsh or etched, but some sort of underlying rough character that permeated over everything. Going back to the Model S and Yggy was a noticeable breath of fresh air for me. I think I even preffered the Modi 2 Uber. THAT SAID...this is NOT a finalized product, and given we were having technical issues with it throughout the day (see above, that's what I mean), I am NOT judging the device based on this. Shari ng my honest impressions, but I want to come back to this closer to or after its production phase and with machines I know aren't going to get all weird with it. I have no doubts they'll pull this one off and make it an incredible deal with a great sound.

EMM Labs Meitner DAC: I forget the model name of this. I was told this was rather expensive. I did not particularly care for it. I guess it upsamples everything to DSD. Sounded artificial and somewhat rough. Granted, this was with the HE1K, but switching to the Model S showed some of the rough, artificial quality was coming from the DAC itself. However, the Mjolnir paired with it sounded nice and powerful.

Elekit TU-8200 + UltraFI DAC-41: I heard this at the Denver meet as well with the HD650s, and I thought it sounded pleasing. Not sure where it falls on the spectrum of tube amps, but it sounded full and clear to me. Granted, Effusion brought two briefcases full of tubes to roll on it...he had three briefcases at the last meet, I think. Insane. Anyway, not as much air or spaciousness as the Super 7, but still has some of that quality tubes seem to offer. I didn't hear anything that sounded overly syrupy to me, but it was not as neutral or fast as the Valhalla 2. OTOH, the Val2 isn't always the smoothest or, rather, most euphonic amp to listen to. I think this amp might strike a nice balance, and, again, could be very tube dependent. Seems like a cool amp kit to build, and it looks nice as well. Decently priced. I'm actually thinking the UltraFI DAC-41 was holding it back a bit. I'm about 95% sure it uses the TDA1543 chip. And while it sounded like a good implementation of it and was pleasing to listen to with the amp, I would have LOVED to hear the amp with my Model S. 1543 in general is a bit intimate sounding, not particularly spacious or airy, and isn't the most detailed or refined. Great tone and fun to listen to, but there's only so far you can that that 1543 chip. Still, a really enjoyable setup to listen to with my HD650s. Hoping I can spend more time with this amp on different sources and do some back-to-back amp comparisons, because it caught my interest.

Pulse XFi Infinity (I think?): Pretty cool all-in-one device. I only tried it like that. Did not try it as just a DAC, so keep that in mind with my impressions. As an all-in-one unit, I thought it sounded pretty darn good! Not the most amazing thing I've heard (i.e. didn't touch the TOTL DACs + Super 7 or Black Widow), but pleasing. Didn't hear the usual Sabre glare or etch. The various digital filter modes had a noticeable change on the sound. TCM sounded the most coherent and focused but had a more intimate sound with a smaller stage. TCM also had the best tone of the bunch but sacrificed some clarity, speed, texture, and pitch in the lower regions. The other modes were more neutral sounding and more resolving but sounded somewhat diffused. Bass improved but became a tad polite and was still not particularly focused or clear. Treble still didn't sound harsh or etched. I liked the options and minimalist look of the device. As an all-in-one unit, I'd pay maybe $800-1000 for it. I was told it will cost way more than that and was disappointed. But, hey, maybe it excels as a standalone DAC. I didn't put it in the DAC rotation due to limited time, but perhaps that would change my mind.

Toilet Paper: WTH, why does this office have such nice toilet paper? Does someone live there? I will never look at office toilet paper the same way.

Anyway, best part, as always, is chilling and chatting with everyone. I had a great time! We need to have more of these tight-knit, pyrate meets. Way better than the bigger meets, even if there is less gear to try. Thanks to jexby for organizing it! Just wish we had more time. I actually felt rushed listening to a lot of things. So many nice pieces of gear, like the Yggy, that I could probably s pend hours on alone.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 02:56:31 PM by hans030390 »
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audiofrk

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2015, 09:52:53 PM »

Here be my impressions:


Third HE-560 I've tested: Still painful. This was maybe the least offensive sounding pair I've heard. All I hear is decent low-end impact, thin mids, and stab-my-ear treble. Yet, I've read reports of non-bright pairs floating around. I think they try to avoid me, those damn, tricksy headphones.



was the he 560 stock or modded?

Here be my impressions:


reDACted: Well...this one was actually a letdown for me. First, we ran into a lot of issues hooking this up to the Macbooks and Minis via USB. The first time I plugged it in, something was clearly wrong. Imagine feeding your music through some 8-bit video game console, like the NES, and this console has somehow taken LSD and is dead set out combining some sort of robotic, high-pitched, digital, metallic emphasis with every sound it spits out. After a few times of unplugging it and plugging it back in, restarting the software, re-applying software settings, and so on, it finally came to life as expected! I know I said I was letdown earlier, and that was based on how it sounded when it worked (seemingly) properly. Tone seemed good, though on the warm side of things. Noticeably warmer than the Yggy and, hell, even warmer sounding than my Model S, IMO. Maybe the warmest DAC I heard there. That's fine and all, since I'm OK with warmth, but it was surprising. Sense of detail seemed to be there, and it wasn't harsh. But what bothered me was something I had a hard time placing my finger on. It's like this DAC sounded very unrefined. Not harsh or etched, but some sort of underlying rough character that permeated over everything. Going back to the Model S and Yggy was a humongous breath of fresh air for me. I think I even preffered the Modi 2 Uber. THAT SAID...this is NOT a finalized unit, and given we were having technical issues with it throughout the day (see above, that's what I mean), I am NOT judging the device based on this. Sharing my honest impressions, but I want to come back to this closer to or after its production phase.



With the [redacted] did you let it warm up or did you just plug it in and listen?  I remember at Changfest the [redacted^2] needed to be warmed up for a couple of hours.  Also what amp were you using?
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Hands

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2015, 10:49:03 PM »

HE560 had a custom, more open back but otherwise was stock AFAIK.

reDACted had been on for a couple hours, and I was using the Super 7 IIRC. Clearly, given the technical issues we had with it, something wasn't playing nicely somewhere. Even when it sounded like it was working right, it might not have been 100%. I dunno, personally, I'm not too worried about it. Not a production device, simple as that. And should clarify I thought the sound it produced when it clearly wasn't working right was more comical than anything. The other guys made comments about their Macs acting up with other products and doing similarly strange things. Just reporting what all went down in Boulder with as much honesty as I can!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:12:29 PM by hans030390 »
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jexby

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Re: Boulder area CCCP (Chang) Aug 2015 Meet Impressions
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2015, 12:39:22 AM »

I really enjoyed these Boulder area pyrates (again), indeed more mini meets with this crew WILL happen for sure!
you guys rocked.
 headbang

bixby is right, our cabling prowess kicked ass.
Hans, great write up as I expected from you.  believe your young ears may have bested many/most of ours.
Mister R, thanks for the Uber 7 time.  still crave more. (yes, dibs.)

a long Sunday for me in the mountains, so no time for a write up yet.
just a group photo, all to scale.
from Left to Right:

J[redacted], J[redacted], K[redacted], K[redacted], M[redacted], T[redacted]
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