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Author Topic: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)  (Read 158879 times)

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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1560 on: September 26, 2015, 12:10:18 AM »

Why would anyone buy a VW in the US at least. The reliability sucks and the dealer network sucks even more. 

Oh, I forgot they are farfromugen, haha, yes my 78 sirocco was fun to drive.

They deserve every billion dollars worth of fines they get assessed.

The GTI is the same car today it was yesterday. There's no new MazdaSpeed3 as of yet, and if you don't like the Focus, and you want a hot hatch...

That said yes, VWs tend not to be very reliable, and their dealers are usually mediocre at best. They seem built for leasing, and yet, at least before the scandal, there were NO desirable lease deals to be had on even the regular Golf 1.8T, which is the only remotely interesting car they have. The Jetta is old and blah, Passat NMS is old and blah, and pathetic compared to the EU version, the CC and Tiguan are both ancient and overpriced, and the pricing on the Toureg is absurd. Considering how shit their current lineup is aside from the Golf, I'm surprised they sell as many cars in the US as they do (did).
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bixby

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1561 on: September 26, 2015, 12:26:34 AM »

yes, I was really close to getting a golf a few years ago, so fun to drive.  then I woke up and used my head and bought an accord.  Bigger back seat for the kids, still tosable now that they have slimmed it down and freaking great mileage.  and absolutely no service other than oil and tire rotation in 3 years.
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Maxvla

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1562 on: September 26, 2015, 01:23:45 AM »

I also was pretty much set on a Golf/GTI a while back, but backed away realizing the cost and long term problems that could occur given the brand's history. It's really a shame too cause I had absolutely no complaints about the car itself. It was the size I wanted, had the backseat room I wanted, and, at least with the GTI, the power I wanted. Problem was the $26-27k price tag and VW's history of unfixable electric gremlins and other things.

I really like the new Civic sedan they just unveiled and at least in EX-T trim it will have a 1.5T making 173hp and plenty of torque (lower in the band too) and will be a little smaller than my 1990 Accord which is the right direction for my desires. Since it's a 1.5L it should make the 'several ticks above 40mpg' the Honda guy claimed at the LA unveil. And, with all that said, it should be priced somewhere around $21k (not $27k GTI).

But then I re-thought my plans of buying new and eating the depreciation after coming across a Dave Ramsey video about car buying, in which, of course, he recommends buying an old reliable 'Camcord' and paying yourself the car payment you had in mind before into a mutual fund and growing your retirement. Buying old is not going to happen with me, unless it is a special car. Camcord is not out of the question though. I liked the 2013 Accord Sport I test drove, but it was bigger than I wanted. Prices on low mileage 2013s are coming down to $16k now, which is probably the more sound financial decision as I plan to keep my next car for another 9-10 years as I have both of my previous cars. It's hard to get excited about a car that came out 2-3 years ago, I need a news/video time machine to make them all sound fresh and interesting!

So remember an old car wouldn't happen, well, I've always been fascinated with the first gen Insight (2000-2006) so I've been watching listings for those on cars.com and craigslist. There aren't many (currently 17 country-wide listed on cars.com) as there were only about 17,000 sold and the cars are now at least 10 years old. Most of these are at least 80k miles and on their 2nd or 3rd battery pack, but for as interesting a car as they are, prices range from $2.5k for rough condition to mostly $4k-5k for reasonable condition to $8k for nice condition. I'd only buy one if the battery had been replaced recently or the price was right to account for it. I think it has a legitimate chance to be a collectors car later in life, so it could be something interesting to drive now and maintain as well as clean up and restore to near showroom over time to take to car shows, or perhaps sell for a profit many years later. If I bought one in good shape I'd probably sell my Pontiac, even though the Insight doesn't have rear seats. For family stuff, we'd just take my mother's car everywhere instead.

Or, continue to hang on to the Pontiac, wait for new Civics to drop to $14-15k on the used market and finally buy something. The Pontiac has no problems, so I don't need to get something different, but I'm tired of driving a bland-mobile that isn't modern and has terrible efficiency.

--

Remember, this is a saga begun 3 1/2 years ago...
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1563 on: September 26, 2015, 02:35:35 AM »

But then I re-thought my plans of buying new and eating the depreciation after coming across a Dave Ramsey video about car buying, in which, of course, he recommends buying an old reliable 'Camcord' and paying yourself the car payment you had in mind before into a mutual fund and growing your retirement. Buying old is not going to happen with me, unless it is a special car. Camcord is not out of the question though. I liked the 2013 Accord Sport I test drove, but it was bigger than I wanted. Prices on low mileage 2013s are coming down to $16k now, which is probably the more sound financial decision as I plan to keep my next car for another 9-10 years as I have both of my previous cars. It's hard to get excited about a car that came out 2-3 years ago, I need a news/video time machine to make them all sound fresh and interesting!

I know some people who've gone this route, but it's never had much appeal for me personally, especially considering the advancements in safety that have happened just over the past 10 years. My sister for a long time was very reluctant to give up her old first gen Subaru Forester, which IIRC she had been driving since college. She got into a relatively minor fender bender a few years ago, and decided it was finally time to let go of the Scoob. Her car didn't even have side airbags, and I said "you know, if somebody had T-boned you full speed in an intersection instead of just crunching your fender, there's a strong possibility that they would've had to air-lift you to an ICU. In a new Forester, you'd walk away."

She was pretty surprised, she had no idea that there was that big of a difference between her Forester and the 3rd gen version in terms of safety. I can't even imagine how badly the old car would do in the new IIHS small overlap test.

Side airbags and head curtains were mostly standard in luxury cars by the late '90s, but they didn't trickle down to mainstream cars until the mid '00s, and typically weren't standard until around 2006-7. Even with them, some cars from that period still also have terrible crash test scores. The first gen Chrysler 300 is a prime example of that. Dirt cheap on the used market, not all that safe. Stability control in mainstream cars was also not standard until around the same period. And speaking of the small overlap test, most cars designed in the '00s fail it pretty miserably. Volvo was ready for it which shouldn't be much of a surprise, but even luxury brands like Mercedes had some pretty embarrassing failures. It's really only with the latest models that most brands are now doing pretty well in that test across the board... at least when they don't cheat (Ford).
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Maxvla

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1564 on: September 26, 2015, 03:12:05 AM »

That is a good topic to consider. My current car only has driver/passenger airbags. IIHS rates it Good on moderate front overlap, Marginal on side impact, and Poor on head restraint/seats.

The Insight has similar features (ABS/Front airbags/etc) but seems to have a higher rating due to its' stronger but lighter aluminum body.

The late model Accord is rated Good in every test, and according to the LA reveal, the Civic will be better than any other compact on the market in regards to safety.
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DaveBSC

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1565 on: September 26, 2015, 05:54:06 PM »

That is a good topic to consider. My current car only has driver/passenger airbags. IIHS rates it Good on moderate front overlap, Marginal on side impact, and Poor on head restraint/seats.

The Insight has similar features (ABS/Front airbags/etc) but seems to have a higher rating due to its' stronger but lighter aluminum body.

The late model Accord is rated Good in every test, and according to the LA reveal, the Civic will be better than any other compact on the market in regards to safety.

The "Marginal" rating applies to GP models *with* side airbags installed. Even with them in place: "Measures taken from the dummy indicate that rib fractures and/or internal organ injuries would be likely in a crash of this severity. A fracture of the pelvis would also be possible, and loading to the shoulder was excessive."

Without side airbags and head curtains, the results would be much, much worse.

This sort of thing is not uncommon when side airbags were first introduced to mainstream cars. Companies with more sloppy safety engineering records (GM, Chrysler, etc) largely blew it with their first go round. Companies that have historically had more of an emphasis on safety like Honda (Takata airbags aside) generally did better. I don't think IIHS ever tested the first generation Insight though, only the current car. I wouldn't expect much protection at all from the old one. If an F-150 driver is drunk or not paying attention and plows into you in an old Insight, you're probably dead.

The latest mainstream models have mostly reached parity with cars like the S-Class in terms of protection during an accident, and are now starting to catch up with stuff like lane departure warning/prevention, automatic collision avoidance braking systems, etc. This sort of stuff I think is a lot less important, and a lot of it also doesn't work that well yet. LDW systems are easily fooled, and there have been cases of auto-brake systems reading a road sign as a stopped car and basically panic braking, which is not something you want to happen at 75mph on a highway.

I think the best bang for the buck right now is a 2012 CPO car, preferably one that's been through and passed the small overlap test. 3 years old will typically get you 40-50% off MSRP and a car with 25-35K miles on it that still has loads of useful life left.
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bixby

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1566 on: September 26, 2015, 08:38:53 PM »

Wow, I went through both scenarios you describe, Maxvla. 

On one hand I bought a pre-owned two year old car at 50% off list and about 12k miles.  2008 ford Fusion 6 cylinder.  Nice car, even had bluetooth for my phone was back then. I knew its history because I drove it as a company car.  When I left the company I bought it around the time when they cycled through cars late in Nov.  I can heartily recommend getting an off lease car and maybe have one of the auto broker guys go to the auction and buy it for you.  Well maintained, mileage can be high or low and pretty decent pricing since most big companies lease mainstream sedans.  So I guess you cannot be too picky, but I can see some companies going greener and having some cooler options.

I took that 2008 fusion and traded it after a few more years for my 2013 Accord.  they gave me crazy money on trade for the Fusion, probably cuz consumers had it ranked really high on reliability at the time.  Just a few grand less than I paid for it.  And the competition for a mainstream sedan is healthy so the Accord was discounted nicely.  Pays to do most shopping with the internet reps at dealers and shop all of them.  Now I have a car that depreciates much, much less.  34-35 MPG per tank driving around town, rarely on the freeway and lots leaner than the old fatty Accords. 

Handles nicely but not quite as much fun as my first new car, a 73 Civic CVCC.  Man that car was toss-able and had a fun floor mounted stick. 

Good luck with either direction.
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Maxvla

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1567 on: September 27, 2015, 12:46:14 AM »

Only crash testing I could find for the Insight was a generic 4 star rating but I don't know who ran the test or if 4 stars was the highest.

Going to look at one semi local tomorrow that seems promising. It was listed on Craigslist as a 2002 with 83k, but after checking the car he said it was a 2001 with 112k, but did seem like an honest mistake relying on memory instead of making sure. Definitely will cost him on the sale.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 01:39:51 AM by Maxvla »
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Maxvla

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1568 on: September 27, 2015, 01:47:44 AM »

If an F-150 driver is drunk or not paying attention and plows into you in an old Insight, you're probably dead.

That's probably true in almost any car depending on the speed of the F150.
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Moodyz

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Re: The New Car Saga (and general auto chat)
« Reply #1569 on: September 27, 2015, 02:52:39 PM »

"Lamborghini, part of the VW group, have been quick to come stating they emission test their cars independently and aren't cheating like their parent company."

Yeah, phew!! Would've been catastrophic for Lambo, with all the diesels they sell.
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