Topic: Computer update (Read 1886 times)

Maxvla · « **on:** July 13, 2015, 12:51:35 AM »

Looking at finally upgrading the core of my system after nearly 7 years.

Current rig:

Looking to update:

i7 860 2.80GHz (LGA 1156)
Gigabyte P55M-UD2 Micro ATX
4 x 2GB DDR3 1600
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus - Might move to a CLLC system with accompanying case, like a Corsair.
Wifi card

The i7 still does well enough, but extracting large rars is testing my patience these days, and encoding videos takes a while. Unfortunately this was a one-off socket, the 1156, so there was never an upgrade path. Lately I've been picking up new tech that I'd like to be able to take advantage of, such as USB 3.0 (my tablet, portable hard disk, and micro SD card reader) and bluetooth (Deepblue 2), and I'd like to update to faster wifi than my addon card was made for, so my tablet can stream easier from my main rig. Also, it seems this might be a good opportunity to make the step to DDR4.

I think I've waited long enough to get all these technologies (and maybe others) up to date in one shot and make it worthwhile even though my current rig is still ok-ish. Last year I helped a co-worker build a computer using a Corsair case and water cooling setup that was easy and effective. My last water cooling adventure (12 years or so ago) was back when you used aquarium pumps and had to do it all yourself. That was very effective, but some months later there was a small leak and my system force shut down to protect the chip (thankfully it was Intel back then, AMD didn't have that).

Another issue I've had with my rig for a very long time is USB transfer speed. I've tried everything over the years to fix it, but it must be a hardware problem. The USB 2.0 transfer starts fine, but almost immediately tanks to extremely low speeds. USB 2.0 isn't all that great anyways for large transfers anyways, so I am hoping to 'fix' this by replacing the mobo and upgrading to USB 3.0/3.1. When I recently bought a 128GB sd card, I tried loading my music from my main rig and it bogged so much I had to cancel (actually pull the drive out because it wouldn't cancel via software), plug it into my tablet, access my directory on wifi and load it that way. Silly. Sure 10MB/s is pretty slow when transfering ~120GB, but at least it will actually finish. I'd been thinking about a computer upgrade the last couple years, but never took it seriously, but this comedic file transfer was a sign.

Things that are recent upgrades, or don't need replacing:

Asus R270 2GB - I mostly play older games and only play on a single 1080p monitor (Sony 52" TV)
Corsair 850TX 850W PSU - was originally in my rackmount raid server (unless i need different plugs for modern stuff)
2 x 2 TB hard disk (sata)
1 x 4 TB hard disk (sata)
2 x 1 TB hard disk (sata)
Blu-ray/DVD burner

Possible updates:

Intel X25-M G2 80GB - still working fantastically, but space is always an issue. Windows + 1 large game usually is all that will fit. Modern drives offer much more speed, too.

Plan:

Broadwell finally just recently went up for sale, but it is not a full release like we are used to seeing. Just a couple chips to satisfy those who have to have something. Skylake is supposedly going to be up for sale this August and is supposed to be a real world 5% improvement on Broadwell, though no tests have been shown publicly. I looked at some of the extensive CPU benchmark sites and noticed that a modern Broadwell is roughly double the score of my current chip. This is enough of an improvement to warrant a change, imo. Skylake is going to be the first of another new socket, the 1151, and will be accompanied by the new 100 chipset series. This chipset is a good platform for updating those technologies I mentioned before, USB 3.1, faster wifi on board, bluetooth on bo ard (perhaps), and of course DDR4. It will also feature M.2 for ultra fast SSD operation should I choose to use it.

So I propose to get whatever the best value i5 Skylake is released (lowest usually), a well featured motherboard (full ATX this time...), 16GB of DDR4, a CLLC water setup and matching case, and perhaps a new SSD on the M.2 interface.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2015, 01:12:48 AM »

I would definitely replace that SSD. Currently 550/550 is a typical speed now even for mid-level drives, and I'm sure IOPS would be more than what you have by an order of magnitude. 256GB drives have also gotten cheap enough that you can basically buy them on a whim.

IMO water cooling is a total waste of time and money. The cheap Asetek rebranded closed loop setups are at most 5-10% better than a top level tower cooler, for 30% more cost. And you may have to return it two or three times until you happen to get one with a pump that doesn't scream. And that's if you get the ones with 240 rads. The ones that are a single 120 or 140 often have WORSE temps than tower coolers. A full system loop with a dedicated pump will do better, for WAY more money, but unless you're trying to over-volt and overclock every last ounce of performance, it's pointless. Spend the money on a multiplier unlocked Core i7 instead of you want faster performance.

As far as cases, I really like what Phanteks is doing. Corsairs I think are boring, and many aren't that well suited to air cooling.

Maxvla · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2015, 01:27:55 AM »

Yeah, I have been watching SSDs drop in price and gain in performance. I'd probably do a 512 minimum if I went for a new SSD. Maybe that Samsung SM951 M.2 drive either 256GB or 512GB. For as fast as they are, they are still less than a dollar per GB, which is surprising.

The Corsair setup I did for my friend was whisper quiet and provided great temps. The case was alright looking/featured and was designed for the water setup, so it was easy to assemble. The Hyper 212 I have now does a great job, so this would be more of a 'I just want it' thing, but the temps are certainly higher than my friend's water setup. Also, I would imagine most of the Corsair cases are designed around using one of their CLLC systems, so air performance isn't their priority anyway.

My computer is near my headphone rig, so silence (or close to it) is mandatory. I picked the Asus R270 video card because it was enough performance for what I play and it was very quiet, the Hyper 212 is like-wise quiet. The case I'm using now is very old and only has 80mm fan locations, so I'd like to move to a case with 120mm minimum. Presently the only noise I ever hear from my computer is those 80mm case fans at a light hum, and some occasional hard disk grumble.

briskly · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2015, 01:55:19 AM »

Might as well spring for a larger NVMe drive since SSD prices are going down, so it won't be much of an expense. I guess there will be more M.2 sized drives by then.

The Corsairs are easy to work with, but in the past I have found their designs boring as well. With water cooling, thermals are going to be tied to the radiators and the water block . A lot of space has to be dedicated to rads if you want higher cooling performance than high end air, and you still need to cool the rest of the system.

Video encoding and compression are very paralleled tasks, and would see benefits from i7 Hyperthreading, or just throwing more cores at the problem. DDR4 won't bring much of a performance benefit, if any, but it's not dead-ended if you want more than 16GB in the future.

Maxvla · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:13:35 AM »

Well it doesn't get much more boring than my current case, a Chieftec Dragon that I originally bought back in 2002, yes 13 years ago.

I also have a really nice Silverstone HTPC case I used for a time, until I consolidated my HTPC and server into fewer larger drives, but still enough that would not all fit in the Silverstone.

Regarding the i7 thing, I am glad I went with the i7 way back when, but I think i5 will be the way to go this time. The performance difference (my chip to an i5) is enough to overcome any hyperthreading differences, and I don't do those tasks enough to warrant the extra expense of a modern i7.

ohhgourami · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:29:33 AM »

Skip the Samsung SM951. Go for the Intel 750 PCI-e! I know I'm getting one once I upgrade to Skylake.

Corsair cases are pretty shit. Quality is very mediocre and so is cooling layout for air and water.

I highly recommend going for big air cooling over CLCs. Anyone who tells you watercooling is quieter than air (except for very high OCs) is obviously deaf. You're still using fans and pumps make noise.

Are you willing to try open test bench? A few guys on here have taken up my advice and would never go back to traditional cases. Extremely quiet yet good overclocking headroom.

altrunox · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:33:27 AM »

Dude, get a new SSD, and a great quality one, like the Samsung 850 Evo, or even a m-sata that your new motherboard should support, or even better, buy both!

And watercooler is usually a waste of money +1, something like the Hyper 212X is more than enough most of the times, the only issue is memory compatbility, you would need some low profile ram.

Also, you could get a new case, some Silencio model from CM or even the Define from Fractal Design may be interesting for you, since silence looks to be one of yours priority,

Chris F · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:40:46 AM »

I think my next machine will be open test bench. Really like the idea of just being able to pull crap out when I need to without having to go inside a case and all sorts of bullshit. Also, quality big fans like the Noctua's are very quiet as long as you can keep the RPM on them down.

With regards to Intel CPUs I wouldn't get too hung up on waiting for the next gen unless you are going to use the integrated graphics or want to hit a specific power envelope. That's where all the CPU R&D has been going over the past few years as opposed to IPC performance which only goes up a few percent with each revision. Intel sees the threat from ARM SoCs scaling upwards and is pushing the performance/watt of their chips to fend off the threat. No way is Intel going to let ARM into the laptop/desktop market without a major fight and Intel has the ultimate ace in that their fab tech is several years ahead of everybody else.

ohhgourami · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:59:34 AM »

Quote from: altrunox on July 13, 2015, 02:33:27 AM

Dude, get a new SSD, and a great quality one, like the Samsung 850 Evo, or even a m-sata that your new motherboard should support, or even better, buy both!

And watercooler is usually a waste of money +1, something like the Hyper 212X is more than enough most of the times, the only issue is memory compatbility, you would need some low profile ram.

Also, you could get a new case, some Silencio model from CM or even the Define from Fractal Design may be interesting for you, since silence looks to be one of yours priority,

M-sata is being phased out and replaced with M.2. Samsung SM951 is still a great choice but I grown to distrust Samsung drives lately. My 840 pro shits itself once in while and the 840 Evo constantly has slow read issues.

212+ is a piece of crap. Stupidly loud fans and a retarded mounting system that requires 3 hands if you want a perfect seating. Cooling is only mediocre too.

Maxvla · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:00:48 AM »

Quote from: ohhgourami on July 13, 2015, 02:29:33 AM

Skip the Samsung SM951. Go for the Intel 750 PCI-e! I know I'm getting one once I upgrade to Skylake.

Corsair cases are pretty shit. Quality is very mediocre and so is cooling layout for air and water.

I highly recommend going for big air cooling over CLCs. Anyone who tells you watercooling is quieter than air (except for very high OCs) is obviously deaf. You're still using fans and pumps make noise.

Are you willing to try open test bench? A few guys on here have taken up my advice and would never go back to traditional cases. Extremely quiet yet good overclocking headroom.

The Intel PCIe card doesn't seem to be much, if any, faster and it's more than a dollar per GB and only available in 400GB or 1200GB, the latter of which I cannot afford, and the former I really shouldn't afford given the meager space.

I'm not interested in an open bench. I rarely change anything in my PC these days, and I would be worried about accidental contact with fans, etc.

Regarding sound levels, I have heard my own computer (obviously) and my friend's with the CLLC system, and his was quieter. It is possible that updating my case to something made within the last decade to allow for larger slower fans will create the same low sound levels. The cooling question is certainly not answered yet, and if the water+case setup starts looking too expensive/not attractive, I have no problems falling back on air. I haven't overclocked in ages, probably 10 years because for most tasks, the processor isn't being taxed in the first place. Once dual core processors came out, most processor speed increases gave minimal boost to overall performance. My last substantial overclock was an Intel P4 2.4b @ 3.6GHz on water.

@altrunox

The Hyper 212 is indeed very nice for what it cost, so there's a good chance I'll continue to use it if I opt out of water.

I'll look at the cases you suggest. Thanks.

@Chris F

The chip upgrade is somewhat about performance, but is mostly about updating the platform as a whole, and getting in on the 1151 socket at the beginning, with perhaps some upgradability later. This burned me on the 1156 socket, being an early adopter, but the 1151 seems to have legs. Moving to the 100 series chipset gets me several smaller tech upgrades as well as the faster main processor, so it's about the sum of the parts, rather than just getting a fast chip.

Author Topic: Computer update (Read 1886 times)

Maxvla

Computer update

DaveBSC

Re: Computer update

Maxvla

Re: Computer update

briskly

Re: Computer update

Maxvla

Re: Computer update

ohhgourami

Re: Computer update

altrunox

Re: Computer update

Chris F

Re: Computer update

ohhgourami

Re: Computer update

Maxvla

Re: Computer update

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Author Topic: Computer update (Read 1886 times)