Topic: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)? (Read 1705 times)

dglow · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2015, 04:28:02 PM »

Quote from: Azteca X on July 06, 2015, 01:24:10 PM

These posts are a great place to start:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-part-i-bit-perfect.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-part-ii-bit-perfect.html

I've long questioned Archimago's approach. What those results actually tell us is that any differences between players cannot be detected by the ADC used in these tests.

A true bitperfect test never leaves the digital realm; capturing bytes streaming off the USB audio connection, reassembling, and comparing to data from from the original source file (post-decoding) would be one approach. I believe some MSB DACs provide a capability like this.

The Alchemist · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2015, 05:22:53 PM »

That is a good point Azteca. I did like the articles, but felt there were a few flaws in it as well. The article did not reveal anything but the source. I don't recall reading what DAC, Amp, headphones, measurement tools the author used for these tests (like jitter etc.) Also, the natural hearing and shape of ear canals are different, thus measurements like this cannot be exactly accurate for each and every individual, still I thought the article did have some very good points to it. Worth the read.

keanex · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2015, 05:25:18 PM »

Quote from: Anaxilus on July 08, 2015, 06:49:28 PM

There is a noticeable difference between directsound and wasapi. If you don't notice it then don't worry about it, but it is there.

What should I be listening for?

I haven't heard any differences with the enhancements disabled within Windows properties for each audio output. From my understanding Windows had issues with Direct Sound in XP, but since Vista and further they've been fixed. This is what I've heard from others and while doing some researching.

Either way I stick with WASAPI for peace of mind.

keanex · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2015, 05:45:30 PM »

Quote from: Azteca X on July 06, 2015, 01:24:10 PM

These posts are a great place to start:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-part-i-bit-perfect.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-part-ii-bit-perfect.html

Very good reads, I definitely learned something from this. Thanks for sharing.

The Alchemist · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:01:20 PM »

Quote from: keanex on July 09, 2015, 05:25:18 PM

I haven't heard any differences with the enhancements disabled within Windows properties for each audio output. From my understanding Windows had issues with Direct Sound in XP, but since Vista and further they've been fixed. This is what I've heard from others and while doing some researching.

Either way I stick with WASAPI for peace of mind.

It's always best to stick with WASAPI/AISO/Kernel Streaming if you want direct communication with your DAC/Soundcard. But everyone is different and sound can be very different for each individual. I think in the end, what sounds best to you, the listener, is always best =)

keanex · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:08:00 PM »

Quote from: TheGame on July 09, 2015, 06:01:20 PM

It's always best to stick with WASAPI/AISO/Kernel Streaming if you want direct communication with your DAC/Soundcard. But everyone is different and sound can be very different for each individual. I think in the end, what sounds best to you, the listener, is always best =)

I agree 100%. I stick with WASAPI for peace of mind, I take every free precaution to ensure the best listening experience from WASAPI to FLAC. I was moreso wondering though what are some giveaways when listening to Direct Sound to listen for. I have all enhancements disabled. I see that using DirectSound does use more CPU, which is definitely something I don't want.

Azteca X · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:17:03 PM »

Quote from: dglow on July 09, 2015, 04:28:02 PM

I've long questioned Archimago's approach. What those results actually tell us is that any differences between players cannot be detected by the ADC used in these tests.

A true bitperfect test never leaves the digital realm; capturing bytes streaming off the USB audio connection, reassembling, and comparing to data from from the original source file (post-decoding) would be one approach. I believe some MSB DACs provide a capability like this.

It's not perfect by any means and I also opt for the most direct path to the DAC. One of the most tangible benefits of different outputs can be the absence of any stuttering or lag. But yes, ideally the program speaks as directly with the DAC as a CD player would over coax toslink or AES/EBU XLR.

The Alchemist · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:18:36 PM »

Quote from: keanex on July 09, 2015, 06:08:00 PM

I agree 100%. I stick with WASAPI for peace of mind, I take every free precaution to ensure the best listening experience from WASAPI to FLAC. I was moreso wondering though what are some giveaways when listening to Direct Sound to listen for. I have all enhancements disabled. I see that using DirectSound does use more CPU, which is definitely something I don't want.

WASAPI allows delivering an unmodified bitstream to a sound device, and provides benefits similar to those provided by ASIO drivers. One of the other main benefits of WASAPI is that it provides applications with exclusive access to audio devices, bypassing the system mixer, default settings, and any typically any effects provided by the audio driver.

keanex · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2015, 06:21:09 PM »

Quote from: TheGame on July 09, 2015, 06:18:36 PM

WASAPI allows delivering an unmodified bitstream to a sound device, and provides benefits similar to those provided by ASIO drivers. One of the other main benefits of WASAPI is that it provides applications with exclusive access to audio devices, bypassing the system mixer, default settings, and any typically any effects provided by the audio driver.

I definitely understand that, but I appreciate you taking the time to break it down. I use MusicBee myself and enjoy it as a middle ground between Foobar and iTunes.

fillerup · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2015, 08:02:37 PM »

this was something i read a while ago, any relations to the topic at hand?

https://pay.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/37fbit/sounds_way_better_in_ubuntu

Author Topic: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)? (Read 1705 times)

dglow

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

The Alchemist

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

keanex

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

keanex

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

The Alchemist

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

keanex

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

Azteca X

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

The Alchemist

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

keanex

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

fillerup

Re: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)?

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Author Topic: Do Mediaplayers sound different when using the same output method (ASIO/WASAPI)? (Read 1705 times)