CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 09:38:04 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Author Topic: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"  (Read 4948 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

smitty1110

  • The Ghost of Audio Forums Past
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +5/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
  • Amps are my drug of choice
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2015, 06:32:22 PM »

I had significant improvement to the sound(better clarity) by placing the Corning USB 3.0 Optical at the input port of the Schiit Wyrd. Although it's not full galvanic isolation, the Corning does optical data transfer instead of copper wires which reduces signal interferences.

Relevant link - http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-corning-usb-3-optical.html?_sm_au_=iHVF37QPMPsJbN1j

On a side note, where did you find an a to b corning usb cable? I can't seem to find one, but maybe my google-foo has become weak.
Logged

DubiousMike

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +12/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
  • (Posts as skeptic on HF)
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2015, 07:33:05 PM »

That's because the available USB isolators have a limited speed so you can't 'clean' anything above 24/96.
On top of that it will most likely add jitter.
....

Trying to wrap my mind around this.  I recognize I am asking for a free education here so please feel free to disregard if you don't have the time or inclination to address this...but I would love to understand.

I can see from the datasheets that something like the adum3160 in the doodlebug is relatively low speed as isolators go and maxes out at 12mbps (full speed).  If my entire music catalog is less than or equal to 24/96, what is the downside of running usb through such an isolator?  Why would it add jitter?  The measurements I linked above, and others that I have seen posted (admittedly none made on real test equipment), seem to show that the doodlebug improves the output of the pupdac and odac at the very least.  Is the issue that a 12mbps isolator is incompatible with higher frequency xmos and cmedia usb receiver chips?
Logged

madaboutaudio

  • Jude's Closet Lover
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-28
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2015, 07:50:40 PM »

Relevant link - http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-corning-usb-3-optical.html?_sm_au_=iHVF37QPMPsJbN1j

On a side note, where did you find an a to b corning usb cable? I can't seem to find one, but maybe my google-foo has become weak.

I have to get a male A to Male B adapter for corning to work
Logged

smitty1110

  • The Ghost of Audio Forums Past
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +5/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
  • Amps are my drug of choice
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2015, 08:18:09 PM »

Ah, I just looked it up, but a USB3.0 type B connector is not backwards compatible with USB2.0 type B, so you're better off with the more common A to B converter.
Logged

madaboutaudio

  • Jude's Closet Lover
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +32/-28
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2015, 09:01:39 PM »

Ah, I just looked it up, but a USB3.0 type B connector is not backwards compatible with USB2.0 type B, so you're better off with the more common A to B converter.

here's what I used:
Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2015, 09:22:46 PM »

I can see from the datasheets that something like the adum3160 in the doodlebug is relatively low speed as isolators go and maxes out at 12mbps (full speed).  If my entire music catalog is less than or equal to 24/96, what is the downside of running usb through such an isolator?  Why would it add jitter?  The measurements I linked above, and others that I have seen posted (admittedly none made on real test equipment), seem to show that the doodlebug improves the output of the pupdac and odac at the very least.  Is the issue that a 12mbps isolator is incompatible with higher frequency xmos and cmedia usb receiver chips?


When you don't have anything above 24/96 then using it is not a problem.
That is if you need the galvanic isolation or are bothered by groundloops originating from the PC.
If the latter is the case I would rather address that.

The ADuM has very small transformers (for data and clock lines) in it which provides the galvanic separation.
Some solutions use optocouplers, this one small HF transformers.
These are bandwidth limiting components (otherwise it would go higher in data rate)
That is the issue, not the other components around it. It is the limit of the IC.
On the receiving end of the transformer (so INSIDE the IC)  there is electronics that has to decide (on skewed flanks of the clock) what the '1' to '0' levels are.
That decision level MAY not be as accurate/stable  and so the clock thus may 'jitter' more.
Jitter is specified as 3ns max. but the spectrum and type is not measured.
The question is how much and what kind of jitter is 'added' and how susceptive the USB receiver behind it is to this 'jitter'.

Jitter in the data lines is irrelevant (as represented in different voltage levels) MUST be viewed separate from the recovered clock.
The point where the 'value' of the data is determined is not on the rising nor falling edges of the USB signal but nicely inbetween those points.
So in the middle 'horizontal' part of the eye pattern with a high margin of immunity to signal levels it is decided whether the data represented a '1' or a '0'.
The timing of this is governed by the (recovered) clock.
Any small jitter of that clock at the decision point of the data bit 'value' determination is completely irrelevant.
The recovered clock can show jitter depending on HOW synchronisation of the transmitting and receiving side of the data transfer is done.

When you de-jitter afterwards there are no downsides IMO.
My personal views on this jitter and isolation business I will keep to myself.

The RMAA reports say absolutely nothing in this case.
I see RMAA is used a lot to provide 'proof'.
It isn't any proof, perhaps only that there may be less 'nasties' introduced in the analog plane (which is looped) but that may not even be the case.

I wouldn't trust ALL RMAA measurements.
After all they are only as good as the ADC, circumstances around the PC setup and if the guy doing the tests knows the limits of RMAA.

RMAA is fun if you stay well above the limits of the soundcards and can provide some (useful) info at times by lack of better analysers around.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 07:36:03 AM by Solderdude »
Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

DubiousMike

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +12/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
  • (Posts as skeptic on HF)
Re: UpTone Audio USB "Regen"
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2015, 10:28:15 PM »

Thanks so much solderdude!  Exactly the soft of explanation I was hoping for  :)p5
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]