Noob Question here and something I read in a post a while back but cannot remember what thread it was in.

I have a pretty simple setup as only my budget will allow at this time (JRiver MC21-->Bifrost Uber USB Gen2-->Valhalla 2 (Stock Tubes - but want Amperex Orange Globes)-->HD650

I have the mods done that were posted (cut the foam around the drivers and removed foam from back of drivers) - I really like the sound. I guess what my question is - Do headphones that are amped sound better louder? Do most of you listen to music rather loudly? Will the HD650 benefit from being cranked at high volumes? I am not sure what is a "normal" listening level, but I would say I am probably around the middle (not too loud, not too soft) if that makes sense  (I guess most people would say they listen not too loud, not too soft but I am not sure how else to put it).

Whatever sounds best to you.  Also if you read some old post some members state that some amps are better at certain levels and some, usually the good ones  (though correlation not causation), keep their positive traits thought the volume range


Personally I just test at listening levels.  If its better at levels I can't listen at for too long  that doesn't help me. Though I will say that better mastered material can be turned up louder

Your welcome the game

Noob Question here and something I read in a post a while back but cannot remember what thread it was in.

I have a pretty simple setup as only my budget will allow at this time (JRiver MC21-->Bifrost Uber USB Gen2-->Valhalla 2 (Stock Tubes - but want Amperex Orange Globes)-->HD650

I have the mods done that were posted (cut the foam around the drivers and removed foam from back of drivers) - I really like the sound. I guess what my question is - Do headphones that are amped sound better louder? Do most of you listen to music rather loudly? Will the HD650 benefit from being cranked at high volumes? I am not sure what is a "normal" listening level, but I would say I am probably around the middle (not too loud, not too soft) if that makes sense  (I guess most people would say they listen not too loud, not too soft but I am not sure how else to put it).

I think there is some truth in between this. My experience has been basically the following:

At lower levels, for most dynamics, the blackground is typically not truly black, so music will tend to sound more diffused/soft/flat/bland in a way. And this will only get worse as you go lower and lower in levels until you hit the noise floor, and then you'll only hear some soft, constant hum.

In contrast, for certain electrostatic/orthodynamic gears, the blackground is truly black, and so music will tend to retain good tonal and bandwidth contrast even at lower levels, thus giving them a more engaging sound.

As the volume is cranked up higher, though, electrostatic/orthodynamic drivers start sounding uneven, likely due to the movement of the diaphragm being not so uniform anymore (greater excursion is required for higher levels, and so that causes more strain on the diaphragm in general), and thus they start sounding... weird. What was once pleasing tonal contrast quickly spotlights these "problems", and the resulting sonic experience is no longer pleasing. More and more "control" is necessary for these types of headphones, but I think there are still some physical limitations/issues/kinks that need to be overcome/resolved/worked out before these techs can truly be good.

In comparison, dynamics don't tend to spotlight issues, and may even "hide" these issues somewhat, again, at the expense of true blackground. But at higher levels, the contrast between the noise floor and music gets bigger, and so whether the blackground is truly black or not probably doesn't matter anymore, and the increased tonal contrast/bandwidth is a very welcome change compared to at lower levels.

So in short, I think it's true that dynamics sound better and better as they are amped/cranked up, but it may not be the case with electrostatic/orthodynamic headphones. There are some exceptions to this rule, but typically, I find ortho/e-stat not very pleasing at high listening levels (>80dB).

I was the guy that had first gen older hd650.  Got my new hd650 drivers, yeup they sound different, no more vail.  All I gotta say is... Thank You!  These are probably the nicest sounding headphones in my collection.  So if you got an old pair of headphones with the black mesh material, do yourself a favor and buy new drivers.  It was $106 total for 2.  Fairly easy to install.  Thanks Marvey posting this!

I cannot tell if I have the older or newer drivers in mine. I had the black mesh material on the backside of drivers. Bought them in September 2013 I believe.