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Author Topic: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)  (Read 3451 times)

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Bill-p

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Preface:
"Planar" as a term hereby groups "electrostatic" and "planar magnetic" (also known as "orthodynamic") headphones together into one classification.
"Dynamic" means anything with a non-flat diaphragm moving in any way to reproduce sound waves.
"Plankton" hereby means small or micro details.

The big claim: Sennheiser HD600 can potentially reproduce micro details better than Stax SR-009.

Alright, guys, let's fight (and hopefully keep it civvy and techy)! :)p1
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Anaxilus

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2015, 07:09:02 AM »

1-HD800>009>rest; HE1000 possibly in the mix, no idea where final tweaking tuning puts it.

2-unless you've heard the plankton/micro details, people that haven't will think their more macro details are micro details/plankton.

3-You better copy paste everything from the shoutbox cuz people are going to be too tired to repeat themselves on this....yet again.
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MuZo2

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2015, 07:19:52 AM »

Should we say bright headphones with faster bass decay are good at micro details/plankton. Irrespective of  dynamic, planar,  iem, ciem.
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Bill-p

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2015, 07:23:54 AM »

I'll write down what I wrote in IRC first before copy-pasta from shoutbox.

OJ asked me which headphone I thought was more resolving, HD800 or SR-009, and my answer was essentially this:

I think SR-009 is more resolving than HD800. SR-009 to me sounds like the diaphragm "stops faster" (whatever that means), so I tend to hear more of those "quiet" or "silent" parts of a recording. Even certain old recordings when going through SR-009 or some other Stax headphones would sound like that. So I tend to be able to "hear" things like someone coughing from 10 rows away, or the woman sitting in front of the camera adjusting her dress, the cameraman breathing, etc.... The same things can be heard with the HD800, but at times, I noticed, in recordings that I'm familiar with that the HD800, instead of just presenting the "silent" parts, also seems to pick up something like "ruffles" (?) during those parts, so it could at times sound "weird". This is consistent with the HD800 no matter how many times I rewind back to that part, and it doesn't sound like constant pink/white noise that mucks up the recording like some lesser dynamic transducers. And yet I really can't quite tell if that's supposed to be a good thing. To me, it isn't, because sometimes, these "ruffles" mask a little bit of information that I would otherwise hear just fine with the SR-009.

Is this confirmation that the HD800 is in fact more resolving, and is able to pick up those small details even when the SR-009 isn't able to? Maybe... but to me, the 009 still gives a better look at whatever detail it does present, and so I really can't quite say the 009 is less resolving.

Basically, it's like talking about computer monitors. I think the HD800 is a monitor that's able to show all of the gradations in the transition from black to white, and yet its black is not very black. It's kinda gray-ish. In contrast, the 009 isn't able to show all of the gradations (maybe its contrast is boosted?) but yet its black is very close to true black, so anything that's on top of that black stands out, as opposed to the HD800's gray-ish kind of black.

Please don't take this as me saying the HD800 sounds "gray". It doesn't. But next to the SR-009, I think the 009 tends to sound less "gray"... or that it presents more of a contrast between the silent and "something" parts of a recording.
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Anaxilus

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2015, 07:34:36 AM »

Should we say bright headphones with faster bass decay are good at micro details/plankton.

No. Irrelevant. Being rolled off or overly tilted up won't help either way though. That's false BS 'detail' and doesn't resolve plankton in the mids and bass. Some will say elevated treble might help with SS and imaging but I'm not sure I'm completely on board with that one yet. If it's true it's only part of it.
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Marvey

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 07:36:18 AM »

DACs and available amp topologies will also play a role.
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Lojay

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2015, 07:39:56 AM »

IMHO SR009 reproduces microdetails (vocal inflections, slight dynamic changes by the same instruments esp strings, etc) more naturally due to its superior decay and speed. However compared to HD800 (semi-modded with rug liner) the SR009 is more fuzzy sounding and sounds or gives the appearance of being less resolving. HD800 has much better transient attacks, leading edge and definition in spatial images (thanks to the mods). But it trades off naturalness or coherence in the way these details are portrayed.

I think Bill is talking about detail detail, or macro-detail, stuff that actually distract from the music. I am talking about microdetail, e.g. the nuances of the sound of instruments/voices themselves.

Personally speaking, with the Yggy (over 24h) I prefer the EC445 and HD800 over the SR009 and KGSSHV for everything apart from vocals.
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MuZo2

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 07:42:14 AM »

I think if there is big bass with slow decay tends to create a viel.
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Anaxilus

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 07:47:32 AM »

I'll write down what I wrote in IRC first before copy-pasta from shoutbox.

OJ asked me which headphone I thought was more resolving, HD800 or SR-009, and my answer was essentially this:

I think SR-009 is more resolving than HD800. SR-009 to me sounds like the diaphragm "stops faster" (whatever that means), so I tend to hear more of those "quiet" or "silent" parts of a recording. Even certain old recordings when going through SR-009 or some other Stax headphones would sound like that. So I tend to be able to "hear" things like someone coughing from 10 rows away, or the woman sitting in front of the camera adjusting her dress, the cameraman breathing, etc.... The same things can be heard with the HD800, but at times, I noticed, in recordings that I'm familiar with that the HD800, instead of just presenting the "silent" parts, also seems to pick up something like "ruffles" (?) during those parts, so it could at times sound "weird". This is consistent with the HD800 no matter how many times I rewind back to that part, and it doesn't sound like constant pink/white noise that mucks up the recording like some lesser dynamic transducers. And yet I really can't quite tell if that's supposed to be a good thing. To me, it isn't, because sometimes, these "ruffles" mask a little bit of information that I would otherwise hear just fine with the SR-009.

Is this confirmation that the HD800 is in fact more resolving, and is able to pick up those small details even when the SR-009 isn't able to? Maybe... but to me, the 009 still gives a better look at whatever detail it does present, and so I really can't quite say the 009 is less resolving.

Basically, it's like talking about computer monitors. I think the HD800 is a monitor that's able to show all of the gradations in the transition from black to white, and yet its black is not very black. It's kinda gray-ish. In contrast, the 009 isn't able to show all of the gradations (maybe its contrast is boosted?) but yet its black is very close to true black, so anything that's on top of that black stands out, as opposed to the HD800's gray-ish kind of black.

Please don't take this as me saying the HD800 sounds "gray". It doesn't. But next to the SR-009, I think the 009 tends to sound less "gray"... or that it presents more of a contrast between the silent and "something" parts of a recording.

I think you don't quite know if you are hearing the headphone, amp or source when comparing the two. You're using unfamiliar gear at meets. With more experience you'd be able to tell. We'll compare notes and talk about it this weekend if you have time and we can see what's what. I'll just leave this here in the meantime.

www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,593.msg12271.html#msg12271





Looks like we'll need to merge this thread with Marv's original one.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 08:20:16 AM by Anaxilus »
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Anaxilus

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Re: How well do headphones detect planktons? (dynamic versus planar)
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 07:50:30 AM »

IMHO SR009 reproduces microdetails (vocal inflections, slight dynamic changes by the same instruments esp strings, etc) more naturally due to its superior decay and speed.

Does it? See above... ;)

Elephant in the room is HD800's really need a mod and solid upstream gear to push it's abilities.
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"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading." - Lao Tzu

"The Claw is our master. The Claw chooses who will go or who will stay." - The LGM Community

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