CHANGSTAR: Audiophile Headphone Reviews and Early 90s Style BBS

  • December 31, 2015, 09:38:34 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

Author Topic: MEASUREMENT FAQ  (Read 4807 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2015, 04:35:59 PM »

Marv, Can I ask what is good scale for FR and also for CSD
Do you have recommendations for ARTA and  REW?

Floor from -30db to -35db depending upon how you normalize the signal up top. Going even lower actually reveals more though. Think I already posted this link: http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,593.10.html

I use ARTA. UB uses REW. REW use to have some screwy settings that wouldn't let me do CSDs properly for the timescales I wanted. I believe this has been fixed.
Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2015, 11:27:30 AM »


^This again.  If it's craptastic enough 15 seconds is plenty of time.

*Stares in direction of Ultrasone HFI-780*


Oops there it is... the one you were staring at that is... it paid me a visit today (sadly enough for my ears)
Don't know if the rough treble it has is that obvious in the FR plot already  ::) but the THD plots also showed > 1% for several frequencies and the CSD also showed resonances (though short lived).



couldn't agree more on the sound.

This is how Ultrasone measured it:


Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

Deep Funk

  • Sure is fond of ellipses...
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +111/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2344
  • Born in 1988, eclectic 90-ties!
    • Radjahs2cents
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2015, 01:22:35 PM »

30 seconds with the Beats by Dre Solo HD mark I taught me one thing: bass farts exist.

It was a demo. If it was my property I would have used that headphone for target practice in "play darts with garbage bins."

Some headphone sound so bad that the ears and brains say no. Never ignore that signal...
Logged
Few things keep me sane: my loved ones, my music and my hobbies. Few is almost an understatement here...

MuZo2

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 201
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2015, 08:44:49 AM »

How to measure distortion the way innerfidelity does?
Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2015, 08:50:43 AM »

you need special software that has a sliding notch filter in the measurent path that runs along with the sweep frequency.
Latency is of importance here for accuracy.

I don't see the need though and REW and ARTA can also give you THD plots.
Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

MuZo2

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +10/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 201
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2015, 08:57:56 AM »

How to read REW and ARTA distortion measurements?
Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2015, 09:32:20 AM »

Well first you need to determine the THD.
Usually this is slightly above the highest harmonic contents you see in the plot.
Then you have to look at each individual frequency (say 100Hz for instance) and determine the distance between the fundamental (upper trace) and the highest harmonic peak and calculate the percentage from the dB scale: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-thd.htm
the distance is 55dB in this case which works out at 0.18% for 100Hz.
AFAIK Marv measures at around 90dB SPL so this should be close the blue/red traces.

Tyll's plot shows the THD somewhere between 0.1% and 0.2%
Ignore Tyll's peaks at 20Hz, 200Hz and 2kHz.

Personally I think the plots showing 2nd, 3rd and 4th harmonics to be more telling/informative than the THD.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 09:49:37 AM by Solderdude »
Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.

money4me247

  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Powder Monkey
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +9/-11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 37
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2015, 11:19:34 AM »

A few quick very noob questions

1) In ARTA, when calibrating interface/soundcard's full scale input, I've found that every time you estimate the max input mV for the soundcard's full scale input, the estimated Max Input mV changes after consecutive runs. Is that normal?

2) I've noticed that the distortion levels measured in ARTA can vary drastically with different usb interface gain settings and amplifier gain settings/volume levels. how would would do I calculate the ideal settings for my specific equipment for each pair of headphones? any other factors that I should be aware of that impacts those squiggly lines?

3) what amplifier specifications should I be looking or measuring to test how well my amplifier will work for measuring applications?

4) the distortion squiggly lines... how much lower should it be in a good measurement? if I am understanding the explanation above correctly, it is really most important to look at the highest peaks of the highest squiggly line? does the elevation in the lower frequency on the squiggly line count as a peak?

sorry for the newbie questions, but I appreciate any help I can get in further my understanding on this subject. Thank you so much for the help!
Logged

Marvey

  • The Man For His Time And Place
  • Master
  • Pirate
  • *****
  • Brownie Points: +555/-33
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6698
  • Captain Plankton and MOT: Eddie Current
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2015, 05:32:30 PM »

1) I've given up on calibrating with ARTA. One day I will figure it out.
2) I take distortion measurements where the 0dbFS line in ARTA = 100dbSPL. You'll have to get a SPL calibration with your mic. I did my calibration via a second system / CLIO. In general, I try to line up the lower mids/mids to about ~90dbSPL, which is extremely loud, but I think it gives a clearer measurement result that more easily correlates to what we hear.
3) I use an Objective 2. It measures very well and has good power and low enough output Z. It is also cheap. Just don't overload the input because the pot after the voltage gain stage is a retarded design.
4) All the lines matter more or less. Overall high distortion is never good, so looking at the peaks doesn't necessarily make sense. The different lines represent different orders of harmonic distortion from 2nd to 4th order. How these kinds of distortions sound like is beyond the scope of this thread or website. We are still learning. Listening and looking at measurements to see how they correlate. What also matters is how headphone A compares to headphone B. Measuring without listening is stupid. Some measurements correlate to experience more than others. That being said, some people say even order or 2nd order distortion is more euphonic than odd or 3rd order. Personally, I think that is bullshit. 2nd order distortion sounds just as shitty as 3rd order, just a different kind of shitty.
Logged

Solderdude

  • Grab the dScope Kowalski!
  • Able Bodied Sailor
  • Pirate
  • ***
  • Brownie Points: +206/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • No can do skipper, the dScope was terminated
    • DIY-Audio-Heaven
Re: MEASUREMENT FAQ
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2015, 05:35:38 PM »

Hah ... was typing at the same moment Purrin was.


1) In ARTA, when calibrating interface/soundcard's full scale input, I've found that every time you estimate the max input mV for the soundcard's full scale input, the estimated Max Input mV changes after consecutive runs. Is that normal?

I don't think so, it defies logic...
If anything a set reference level would be just that.
As I don't use ARTA I can't say what's happening there.

2) I've noticed that the distortion levels measured in ARTA can vary drastically with different usb interface gain settings and amplifier gain settings/volume levels. how would would do I calculate the ideal settings for my specific equipment for each pair of headphones? any other factors that I should be aware of that impacts those squiggly lines?

Distortion and noise levels all are level dependent so you must choose some reference you want to use.
For headphones usually a certain SPL at 1kHz (or using noise) would be used as a reference.

3) what amplifier specifications should I be looking or measuring to test how well my amplifier will work for measuring applications?

It should have the obvious properties, enough output voltage and current. Wide bandwidth with no phase shifts in the audible band and distortion that is very low.
Most likely the mic+pre-amp will be the limiting factors.

4) the distortion squiggly lines... how much lower should it be in a good measurement? if I am understanding the explanation above correctly, it is really most important to look at the highest peaks of the highest squiggly line? does the elevation in the lower frequency on the squiggly line count as a peak?

It's the distance between the highest peak(s) and the accompanying measured level at each frequency that says something about distortion levels at those frequencies.
Determining the THD should be done by the program.
The lower the better. Distortion between 0.1% and 1% is decent for headphones.


Logged
Use your ears to enjoy music, not as an analyser.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6