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Author Topic: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread  (Read 12176 times)

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Tachikoma

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2015, 04:51:41 AM »

Well, at least the Theta Gen V isn't using anything that is truly unobtanium, like Ultraanalog chips, and if you nudge Schiit the right way, you may be able to get them to help if something does go wrong. $1200-1400 is probably OK considering market prices.
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GoldfishX

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2015, 02:16:14 PM »

I received both the Monarchy M22A and the Auraliti player yesterday. Didn't have a lot of time to play with them and my USB cables/SPDIF cables are all set up for my old setup (aka, I have wire everywhere because everything is too damn long!), but once I got situated, I popped in the Magni (not exactly ideal, but it has become a decent reference point, since I know its sound signature) with the HD600 and the HD800. What I immediately noticed moving from various Delta-Sigmas is two things:

-the soundstage has gone 3D. On the HD600, I heard things all around my ears. Like, someone is coming up behind me. And this was on songs I thought I knew perfectly.

-details! instrument separation, nuances in the female voices, echo effects, percussion sections...I felt like I could close my eyes and SEE the performers. "Effortless" would be the word to describe it. Too many small intangible improvements over my other setup to describe. Even the Celine Dion songs I usually skip, it added that ethereal touch that kept my fingers away from the "skip" button. Based on that, I have a LOT of CD's to revisit.

Of course, the tone was too sharp/bright with that pairing (my HD600 is the silver driver version and the pads are worn out) and wasn't quite right, but the image itself was phenomenal. I finished hooking up around midnight and was playing with various songs until about 3am.

My plan is to eventually pick up a Yggy, but damn if this thing didn't at least set the bar pretty high for it. Also, these impressions were from the Monarchy being ice-cold...Will be curious to see if it improves after a couple days of being on.
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Marvey

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2015, 11:24:48 PM »

Well, at least the Theta Gen V isn't using anything that is truly unobtanium, like Ultraanalog chips, and if you nudge Schiit the right way, you may be able to get them to help if something does go wrong. $1200-1400 is probably OK considering market prices.

PCM63 chips are unobtanium. Some of the transistors on the board may also be unobtanium. The Gen V boards went through a few revisions. Mike Moffat left Theta before most of the revisions on Gen V. He was long gone when Va came out. Asking Schiit for help on something that a few of them were involved in with another company 25 years ago... that's really pushing it.
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Tachikoma

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2015, 03:17:26 PM »

PCM63 chips are somewhat obtainable, although there is a decent chance of getting fakes. As for transistors, unless they were extremely specific there's usually a modern equivalent? No idea re: Schiit, maybe they'll do it for the right price, maybe they won't.
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MuZo2

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2015, 03:44:01 PM »

PCM63 are available depends on which one K, KII or Y or P
Not sure about fakes, how can you make a fake working dac chip
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Ferrum

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2015, 04:02:59 PM »

I owned a Ontech DAC from Denmark based on the AD 1865 chip pre usb and with no other function but DAC conversion. It had one input and one output, that was it. The product description was a bit different, 2/3'rd of the info was about the power supply!?

Never heard anything better in my life. Extremely quiet background, super resolved, bass of dreams etc etc





Ferrum

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audiofrk

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2015, 04:29:08 PM »

PCM63 are available depends on which one K, KII or Y or P
Not sure about fakes, how can you make a fake working dac chip

I think they take a reg pcm63 p and add a k
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Tachikoma

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2015, 03:07:09 AM »

Who said anything about fake and working? :P
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thegunner100

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2015, 03:15:42 AM »

In preparation for receiving my Yggy next week, I'd like to describe the dacs that I'm coming from. See my profile for gear, but I mostly used the V2 -> hd600.

Schiit Gungnir w/ usb gen 2 & wyrd - A fun an exciting dac to listen to. Smooth treble, solid hitting bass, and sweet mids all around. It is a dynamic dac though, so not the best for people looking for a laid back sound. It's a very good for a D-S dac. The biggest strengths of the gungnir is its tonality and lack of digititus. The biggest weaknesses I feel, is its detail extraction and soundstaging. The dac just doesn't seem to be able to extract much information from recordings as the two vintage dacs that I have. The wyrd does make a subtle difference, mostly improving in imaging, soundstaging and blackness in the background. Highly recommended dac for those who prioritize tonality over technicalities. Not recommended for use with hd800s or he-560s. I prefer to use speakers with the gungnir than headphones. They just seem to work better together.

Parasound D/AC-1100 w/ gustard u12 - My current favorite dac. Huge, but doesn't get hot. Uses 2 PCM63 chips (mine are upgraded with K grade). Extracts a ton of micro and macro detail from recordings. I never thought that the hd600s were so capable of scaling up so high. This dac has been the most significant upgrade for the past year. Aside from the detail retrieval, this dac has fantastic imaging and better soundstaging compared to the gungnir. While the bass doesn't quite hit as hard as the gungnir, it is much more detailed, well extended, and rumbles deeper. While I wouldn't exactly call the treble smooth, it is not harsh in any way. I feel like this is what a vintage R2R dac sounds like.

Sonic Frontiers Transdac w/ gustard u12 - Another excellent R2R dac, using PCM1702. It has a very smooth and somewhat warm tone to it compared to the gungnir and parasound. It's not as detailed as the parasound, but maybe on-par with the gungnir. It's hard to say, I've never directly compared the two. Overall while I like what it does for the bass, it doesn't do enough of the other technicalities. For its size and price, It's very hard to beat as long as you pair it with the right amp and headphones. Opamps can be rolled on this dac btw, allowing you to trade some bass performance for some more clarity and soundstaging.

I think Marv was spot-on with his generalizations of PCM63 and PCM1702, especially concerning these two vintage dacs.
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Marvey

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2015, 07:15:04 AM »

And then came PCM1704. Where current R2R got it's reputation of being warm, smooth, but lacking in pace, attack, and resolution.

BTW, the HD600 will keep on scaling. I picked up an HD650 because of what Yggy could do with traditional dynamics and a good tube amp.
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