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Author Topic: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread  (Read 12176 times)

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evanft

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Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« on: April 08, 2015, 11:41:15 AM »

Over in the all-purpose advice thread, a couple of us thought it would be a good idea to create a central thread for discussion of vintage multibit/R2R DACs. Many of us have become interested in them due to Marv's thread over on Head-Fi.

I eventually want to turn the main post in this thread into a sort of compiled list of DACs, possibly with info about inputs/outputs and sample rate capabilities. A google sheet may be needed if this becomes big enough.

At the same time we probably also want to compile a list of good USB to SPDIF converters at various price points. That could be a whole separate thread, but given the overlap in interest, it's probably better to keep it all in one.

I think it may be useful for every post with impressions to start with kind of a standard format. I can just copy and paste it into the top post along with a link to the impressions.

Sample Post Format:
Brand:
Model:
Year:
Inputs:
Outputs:
Sample Rates:
DAC chip:


Obviously, if someone doesn't know the DAC chip or full sample rate capabilities of the DAC they're talking about, it doesn't really matter, so it's no big deal if the info's not there.
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thegunner100

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 12:50:22 PM »

Damn it... I just PM'd you right before I saw this. I'll have my simplified thoughts and info the on the parasound d/ac-1100 and transdac up in a bit.
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shipsupt

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 04:21:14 PM »

How old does it need to be to be "vintage"?
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

evanft

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 06:54:21 PM »


I think anything that's no longer in
How old does it need to be to be "vintage"?
How old does it need to be to be "vintage"?

Meh, it doesn't really matter. The focus will probably be on vintage stuff, but if there's some cool newer multibit DAC worth talking about, feel free.


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dreamwhisper

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 07:17:03 PM »

For some reason I thought the DAC chip in this was called a Sigma-Delta for the longest time, but I'm now aware that that's actually a third category of DAC.
But yes, the good stuff I've heard was all multibit and R2R.

Brand: Assemblage
Model: 3.1 Platinum
Year: 2001 (recapped/updated 2011)
Inputs: BNC, coax, toslink, ST optical, AES/EBU, i2se
Outputs: XLR, RCA
Sample Rates: 24/96
DAC chip: 4x Pcm1704

Cheers, sachu!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 10:31:08 PM by dreamwhisper »
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evanft

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 08:00:51 PM »

How does it sound?
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n3rdling

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 10:48:37 PM »

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Priidik

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2015, 12:31:11 AM »

I stayed up way too long searching eBay for dacs from that list  >:D
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evanft

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2015, 02:51:32 AM »

The Vintage DAC Bible
http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm

If we think there is correlation between DAC chips and good sound (PCM63?) that list could easily be narrowed down.
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AustinValentine

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Re: Vintage R2R/multibit DAC Thread
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2015, 01:26:06 PM »

If we think there is correlation between DAC chips and good sound (PCM63?) that list could easily be narrowed down.

There is, but to some limited degree. There are quite a few variables involved. Filter and output stage design can make or break these old dinosaurs. In general, Ultra-analog 20400A/PCM63/PCM1702 DACs means that *at least* the DAC itself won't be the limiting factor.

Some older DAC chips have been out of circulation for so long and/or have had such infrequent implementations that it's hard to say just what role the chip itself is playing in the overall sound (ex. the old Crystal DACs in the Angstrom 200, the PCM67 hybrid chip in the Theta Basic, Prime, and Progeny, etc).

I've spent a bit of time buying, reselling, and occasionally keeping DACs using that list. I use the original version here http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/ - the site still updates it as new information comes in. Sometimes DACs that you'd expect would sound good based on their chips sound pretty rough (ex. the Denon PCM1702 DAC). Others sound decent on their own, but need mods to shore up a deficiency or tighten up the sound (ex. the Adcom GDA's). Some surprise you with just how good they are *despite* a DAC chip that's less well regarded or really not mentioned at all (ex. the Assemblage 2.6 that I heard, with it's PCM1704, surprised me because to my ears it lacked the general 1704 "syrup" or "softness" that gets mentioned around this site; the Theta DS Pro Progeny sounds great out of the box despite it's budget PCM67 chip).

I guess what I'm saying is that it's probably a good idea to stick to dealing with vintage R2R's on a case-by-case basis. That list - while a great resource - is a bit of a pandora's box.
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