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Author Topic: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor  (Read 3541 times)

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OJneg

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2015, 04:21:58 AM »

So, can one of you build me a better speaker than a KEF LS50 for the same price?

That's an interesting question that you always hear people go back and forth on audio forums. If KEF were just buying drivers from Viking-land and putting them in a box then I would say yes. Clearly any DIYer is going to be able to build something better for the same price; I think we all know the 1/5 rule. But the LS50 has special qualities (proprietary coaxial driver, special curved baffle) that is hard for a DIYer to copy in his garage. Whether all that tech really delivers in terms of sound quality is a different topic altogether.

I've liked the LS50 when I heard it in the past, and right now I am having some issues with this guy sonically. I destroyed my microphone so I'm trying to tune things by ear right now which is turning out to be rather difficult. I do think these are easily on the level of something like an LS50 but I'd need a direct comparison to be sure. Certainly different design goals for each.

I just remembered that my brother is back in town and so are the LSR305's I gave him. I can try to set them up for a quick comparison.
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Armaegis

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2015, 05:15:36 AM »

Never used it. Probably no different from roof asphalt stuff for three times the price.

I've used roof sealer before to coat the inside of headphone cups. I don't recommend it. For concrete, shingles, etc it's all fine, but for anything that you'll be working with hands-on, it's a world of mess. If the more expensive stuff actually fully dries into a non-tacky surface, I'd maybe try it again.
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Do you think there may be an acoustic leak from the jack hole? ~Tyll Hertsens

Not sure if I like stuffing one hole or both holes. Tending toward one hole since both holes seems kinda ghey ~Purrin

Hroðulf

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2015, 10:36:25 AM »

Having heard many well acclaimed studio monitors in the last six months, I'd say that tonality and THD wise the LS50 isn't that special. Where it really excels is dispersion geometry - sweetspot is quite wide and high frequency rolloff when moving to sides is rather gradual.

Pretty sure that one could build a better resolving bookshelf speaker with more low end reach for the same money, but it's really the unique summing properties of the coax driver that sets the LS50 apart.

What would really interest me is to use my LS50 serial numbers to get a pair of coax drivers and make a floorstander with these and a pair (or two) of ten inchers. Tri-amp and DSP cross the drivers.
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OJneg

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 01:57:04 AM »



Set up like above for comparo. Hilo LO > TOCOS pot > Parasound Zamp > NegMonitor vs Hilo MO > LSR305 balanced TRS input set for 4dBu

Started going back and forth and went WTF. Vocal on NegMonitor was effed to hell. Tried sitting on some books but it wasn't just the off-axis response. Of course I turn them back vertical and things lock into place. So much for quick switching; have to give each the spotlight and listen

Biggest difference is bass volume. The 305 has a lot more mid bass volume, akin to my OSMT. Sealed cabinet is never going to extend as low. In this case though it's too much given the positioning (rear of cabinet is <9" from wall). I did try pushing down LF trim but it needs more than 2dB. The reason I made mine sealed in the first place

Other than that, it breaks down like this

LSR305
+ More bass punch
+ More vibrant, faster
+/- Hyper-dynamic JBL sound
- Slight artificial tinge on acoustic instruments
- Cuts out some low-level stuff

NegMonitor
+ More precise, more nuanced
+ Bass doesn't overhang
+ Deeper stage, disappears better
+/- More reserved, consistent sound
- Congested lower mids, upperbass
- Less dynamic

Overall I'm fairly happy that I've got the tonal balance pretty close to the 305, considering I know the 305 to be quite flat. The 305's do tend to grate on my ears after a while, for whatever reason. Almost like a technicolor sort of effect. Probably because they're hyper-dynamic with too much port energy. After listening to the 305 for a good part of the day and then going to AB against the NegMonitor, the music really does start to wash over you. I'm so happy that these drivers can be so precise and resolving while still having certain euphonic qualities. A lot of precise and resolving headphones are missing that natural quality or are just straight up fatiguing. I can only hope that adding that additional damping behind the woofer will clean up the lower-mids and add even better blackness. The fact that these are still comparing well in what is essentially a raw cabinet gives me hope.

BTW, the 305 is still way better than any headphone <$1000. Highly recommend for headphone lewsers who are interesting in getting into real hi-fi :D
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Hroðulf

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 11:09:16 AM »

Hard to tell anything without a calibrated mic in front of the whole setup.

What was the rationale behind enclosure dimensions? My way of doing it would be to measure each driver in the enclosure without the crossover, use two digital outputs and two amp channels to create an optimal digital crossover and then try replicating it with passive components.
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OJneg

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 03:13:47 PM »

Enclosure dimensions were based on recommend .15ft^3 for Seas in sealed enclosure. I did try playing around with values in WinISD but I found the recommended would yield the best results, as it did.

That method sounds like a lot of unnecessary complication. I basically design crossovers in LTspice without ever using a mic. The trick is including the RLC models (for example, the tweeter has a resonance just like the woofer and the woofer has a rising impedance due to voice coil inductance). You also need to know where the breakup points are and guesstimate how many dB you need to be down at that point. Stick to the book, use 2nd order slopes, plug and chug. Choosing a 2200Hz instead of 2000Hz isn't going to give you sonic nirvana.
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maverickronin

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 03:18:26 PM »

Looks fun.

I wish I had the space for speakers...
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sachu

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 03:49:33 PM »

take it this is nearfield listening you are doing OJ?

YOu need some bracing in that cabinet to break up the bass modes from the woofer. That could help with the congested midbass region.

In my expereince, sealed boxes work great , except they end up being a fair size bigger than ported enclosures. The bass response is much tighter when done right (as in a 10 inch woofer atleast lol).

How is the JBL for regular room listening? Like in the background or sitting 10-12 feet away?
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OJneg

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2015, 03:54:03 PM »

How is the JBL for regular room listening? Like in the background or sitting 10-12 feet away?

Excellent. It needs more room to open up and show what it can do.

This cabinet is so small and tight I don't think bracing is necessary. Mainly reflections from rear of woofer methinks.
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sachu

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Re: Ultimate 2-way Desktop Monitor
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2015, 03:57:04 PM »

Mainly reflections from rear of woofer methinks.

yeah! exactly. and bracing helps with this.
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