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Author Topic: Bill-p HE-560 mod  (Read 11836 times)

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anetode

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2015, 02:56:01 AM »

The 3-4kHz region is specifically a Focus pad issue... AFAIK Marv already showed that with past measurements.

But yeah these aren't nearly as smooth of a FR trend as Audezes in the upper midrange, just the nature of the drivers I guess.

I've used both sets of pads and while one set slightly mitigates the bump, it's still rather noticeable.
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Hammy

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2015, 09:59:40 PM »

If you want to try to develop a good target response while you're still waiting for Focus-A, you could also try tuning them with some equalization in the areas where they're brightest. If you feel like yours sound similar to the measurements in this thread, then you'll have an idea where to start and can start subtracting a couple dB from problem areas to see if that corrects the problem for you.

You could further compare that to using Focus-A without EQ once they come in and compare it to any modifications you make afterward. That is, if you don't want to just put away the 560 for a month. If you have something good to listen to while you wait for the pads to come up again, then you can just listen to that.

I've been playing with EQ to investigate what sort of EQ changes make the 560 sound better to me.  I've been using the EasyQ parametric EQ plugin.  It works, but has a tendency to harm the sound.  Makes high-res no longer sound high-res.  A clue that I need to try some different EQ plug-ins. So maybe I'll spend the month investigating some other parametric EQ plug-ins instead of thinking about the 560.  EQing well is also difficult.  I'd fail as a mastering engineer. 

My goal is to get the 560 to sound good to me without needing any EQ.  I'm curious to find out if the 560 will do the trick for me for classical music listening.  My main headphone now is a LCD-2 rev2.  It's not what I would consider a master of classical music.
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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2015, 10:23:11 PM »

Someone else should be sending me their HE-560 in the near future. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the other one I heard, if it differs much at all. He kindly gave me permission to try out some reversible mods on it, so I'll see if anything basic can make 'em sound better (to my ears).
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CCS

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2015, 12:21:51 AM »

I've been playing with EQ to investigate what sort of EQ changes make the 560 sound better to me.  I've been using the EasyQ parametric EQ plugin.  It works, but has a tendency to harm the sound.  Makes high-res no longer sound high-res.  A clue that I need to try some different EQ plug-ins. So maybe I'll spend the month investigating some other parametric EQ plug-ins instead of thinking about the 560.  EQing well is also difficult.  I'd fail as a mastering engineer. 

My goal is to get the 560 to sound good to me without needing any EQ.  I'm curious to find out if the 560 will do the trick for me for classical music listening.  My main headphone now is a LCD-2 rev2.  It's not what I would consider a master of classical music.

How large were the changes that you were making? I've been using the same equalizer in Foobar, and haven't felt that it's been degrading the sound very much.

Then again, I'm also not listening to high-res tracks, because I haven't heard much above 16-bit lossless that sounded much better to me. It would be interesting to get an album or two in high-res and play around with EQ some more to see if I could hear what you're hearing.

To be honest, I think the EQ helps it just enough that if I don't have money for the Focus-A pads till the next batch, I'm not too worried about what I'm missing out on. Maybe they could help even further, but EQ has already brought me to better sound and I feel comfortable stopping there for now.
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Hammy

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2015, 04:09:40 AM »

How large were the changes that you were making? I've been using the same equalizer in Foobar, and haven't felt that it's been degrading the sound very much.

Then again, I'm also not listening to high-res tracks, because I haven't heard much above 16-bit lossless that sounded much better to me. It would be interesting to get an album or two in high-res and play around with EQ some more to see if I could hear what you're hearing.

To be honest, I think the EQ helps it just enough that if I don't have money for the Focus-A pads till the next batch, I'm not too worried about what I'm missing out on. Maybe they could help even further, but EQ has already brought me to better sound and I feel comfortable stopping there for now.

I avoid doing extreme EQ changes.  Try to keep it as mild as possible.  My current EQ for my 560 is a -3 dB 0.8 octave dip at 3400 Hz and a -0.8 dB 3 octave shelf for the rest of the treble.  I'm not happy with that though.

The sound quality loss I hear is a loss of the envelope that is around the sound the room sound and some of the individual sounds (instruments).  High-res seems to sometimes have an envelope like that that CD res seems to lack.  It's subtle, and not always there.  If you don't believe in high-res you'll probably never hear it.  Believe in it and you just might. It's not a bat hearing ultrasonics hearing thing.  The EQ sometimes loses that.  I need to try some good linear phase parametric EQs and see if that makes a difference.
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CCS

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2015, 04:53:59 AM »

I avoid doing extreme EQ changes.  Try to keep it as mild as possible.  My current EQ for my 560 is a -3 dB 0.8 octave dip at 3400 Hz and a -0.8 dB 3 octave shelf for the rest of the treble.  I'm not happy with that though.

The sound quality loss I hear is a loss of the envelope that is around the sound the room sound and some of the individual sounds (instruments).  High-res seems to sometimes have an envelope like that that CD res seems to lack.  It's subtle, and not always there.  If you don't believe in high-res you'll probably never hear it.  Believe in it and you just might. It's not a bat hearing ultrasonics hearing thing.  The EQ sometimes loses that.  I need to try some good linear phase parametric EQs and see if that makes a difference.


Maybe it has to do with how you're shelving almost all of the treble a little bit? I don't hear much to take exception with in the upper treble, past around 9 kHz or so, so I used two dips instead. Or it could be the equalizer itself, like you say. It's hard telling, without being able to hear exactly what you're hearing.

For reference, I'm using -3 dB, 0.5 octave at 4 kHz and -2.5 dB, 0.6 octaves at 8300 Hz. I chose that spot because I found 7-ish kHz to 9-ish kHz slightly bright and found that somewhere between was where it was the worst, so I just made a small, slightly broad dip there to try to reduce the whole region a bit.

I like the sound that they produce with these settings. It's a blunt tool, for sure, but I think that for a headphone that had a mostly agreeable tonal balance, a blunt tool may be all that's required to tune them appropriately, for some people. If you wouldn't mind, give it a try, and tell me what you think. It's possible you won't like these settings, either, but I'd like to know if your impressions change with a slightly different curve.
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Hammy

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2015, 05:41:10 AM »

I'll try that.  In general I've found that shelving has less damage to the sound than peaks/dips, even broad peaks/dips.  So I tend to go with shelving rather than a broad peak/dip if a shelf seems to do what I'm after.  At least with EasyQ.
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CCS

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2015, 04:29:33 AM »

I'll try that.  In general I've found that shelving has less damage to the sound than peaks/dips, even broad peaks/dips.  So I tend to go with shelving rather than a broad peak/dip if a shelf seems to do what I'm after.  At least with EasyQ.

I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions. If you still find that it degrades the sound a bit, then I hope you find a better equalizer for the task.
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Bill-p

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2015, 12:47:03 AM »

Long time no update?

I'm still working on this, ya know. Since the 4KHz peak annoys people too much, and now Focus Pads A are out of stock, I've been looking for a solution, and... I think I'm close.

Anyway, attached a frequency response measurement comparison of some stuffs I've been trying. Unfortunately, it'll also drop bass and make the headphone slightly less warm as opposed to straight-up Focus Pads A, which is still 1.5dB better than what I'm trying to do, but hey... it's an improvement.

Applying the same thing to Focus Pads A but only in the form of back damping will further drop the 4KHz peak by another 1dB, but I don't think it's worth doing since it'll make the HE-560 too dark.

Note: ignore dip at 13KHz in the last measurement. I think... I bumped the mic or something.

And yeah, it's confirmed. Stock Focus Pads are really causing that 4KHz peak to become worse.
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Hammy

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Re: Bill-p HE-560 mod
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2015, 12:58:20 AM »

I got the Focus-A pads on Tuesday.  Much better than the stock pads.  At least I can listen to the headphones now without EQ.  But the Focus-A pads don't bring me all joy.  The HE-560 with the Focus-A pads still harshes my mellow.  Not pleasant listening.  Ear fatigue sets in quickly.  So something is still not right with the sound.  I'm not sure what exactly.  Seems to sound like a little too much midrange still.  Or something else.  I'm not very good at zeroing in on and identifying theses sorts of problems by ear.

I'll keep listening to them to try to better identify what the problem(s) are to me.  Then I'll have to think about whether I want to open them up to mod and try to fix those problems or give up and sell them.
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